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Lately there have been a very popular thread on PSF on which we compares the music of The Beatles and The Beach Boys year by year.

With a kind permission of the thread starter tompromisedroad, I will start the same series of thread here.

So, the first one is a battle of the stuff released in 1963...

three albums (Surfin' USA, Surfer Girl, Little Deuce Coupe) and (then) non-album singles (Be True To Your School, Little Saint Nick)

vs. two albums (Please Please Me, With the Beatles) and non-album singles (From Me To You, She Loves You and I Want To Hold Your Hand)


I look at 1963 as the year of the beginning of everything for both bands. The Beatles released their first album, which was either critical and commercial success (Please Please Me) and their would-be first, huge hit in the us  (I Wanna Hold Your Hand). The Beach Boys released their first (to me) classic BB album Surfer Girl, and their first big hit (Surfin' USA). u

Now, which group do you think did better in 1963? Use the poll above to vote.

Two rules I want you to follow when you vote:
・base your decisions on which you personally prefer, nothing else. We aren't professional music critics (well, most of us aren't) so forget about historical significance, etc. and just vote based on which YOU personally most enjoy listening to.
・consider just the released stuff at the time (in this poll, only the stuff released in 1963).

Look forward to see how the results come out :)

This seems unfair to ask on a BB forum.  :o

True, but I've seen Beatles won or equaled the beach boys on several years (1967: http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/2091/1967-beach-boys-beatle and 1968: http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/2100/1968-beach-boys-beatles)

Would In My Room count? That song charted in the US.

In My Room is included on Surfer Girl album, so of course it counts.

The Beach Boys. Brian's music had a golden quality to it compared to the Beatles who were just a beat group.

I'll admit that Brian's compositions are amazing, but to say The Beatles are just a beat group is like saying The Beach Boys are a surf band. 

I was a high school sophomore in 1963. Nothing, I mean nothing could top the songs of the Beatles or the excitement that they created. And I was a huge Beach Boys fan back then.

Read Lewisohn. As inaccurate as saying the BBs never played on their records, or that the BBs were "just a surf/car" band, etc.

Geez, it's 2018 and someone is still doing this? It's bad when I actually hope comments like this are trolling.

Considering pixletwin is running the Beatles Survivor game, I was a little taken aback by that comment. 

1963 is a weird year to compare, especially concerning US fans, because the Beatles were hardly known in the US in 1963.

If we're going back and just comparing their recorded output during that calendar year, then the Beatles produced two far more unified, front-to-back excellent albums. The BBs albums had *great* material on them, some of which matched the Beatles. But there's also some filler as well.

More or less *every* Beatles song is celebrated as a classic, even from those early albums. McCartney could do "There's a Place" or "Chains" in concert today and the audience would still go nuts.

Nobody much has ever been waiting to hear any version of the BBs do "Stoked" again. Those early BB albums are interesting and I'm *not* dismissing the admittedly (and maybe partially accidental) groundbreaking work on those albums as part of the nascence of "garage/punk" sort of music.

But there really isn't a year where the BBs outmatch the Beatles. There are moments.

For pretty much those same reasons, I voted Beatles. 

Geez. Not sure whose post you are referring to, but my post never inferred that the Beach Boys didn't play on their own records. Nor did I imply that the Beach Boys were just a surf/car band. I don't know where these overreactions came from, but sure has left me super confused.

Nobody is implying you said those things. My point was that saying the Beatles were "just a beat group" is *as inaccurate as saying the BBs were just a surf/car band*, etc.

Stuff like "Please Please Me" and "She Loves You" and "I Want to Hold You Hand" went well beyond what typical "beat groups" were doing.

I am going to have to disagree with you. It may be (and most certainly is) a simplification to classify them as such, but simplifying doesn't not equal inaccurate. On the contrary, I think both the beach boys and the Beatles of that period would have classified themselves the same way in 1963.

1966

Pet Sounds & Good Vibrations beats Revolver & Paperback Writer / Rain

It's a pretty even match for me. I prefer Revolver over Pet Sounds but they are my #1 and #2 favourite album of all time. Meanwhile, I prefer Good Vibrations over PW/R; but The Beatles also put out Eleanor Rigby as a single and, for me, that's quite close to GV, even though GV still wins out. Best song of the year goes to God Only Knows.

That's where it certainly gets really close I suppose, and of course I'm thankful I get to have both. I'd probably, both subjective and objectively, give the edge to "Revolver", and certainly "Good Vibrations", as with most BB singles, doesn't have the A/B one-two brand-new song punch that so many Beatles singles had, including PW/Rain. For whatever reason, Capitol continually stuck old album tracks from previous albums on new BB singles.

The Four Seasons.... >:D

J/K

The Beatles for consistency of work.

I myself voted for the Beatles. Their albums and singles released in this year are extraordinarily good from the "oldies" standard, where albums weren't important.

On the other hand, Surfer Girl is the only album The BBs releaased that can be compared with those Beatles albums. The rest two albums have their highlights, but as an album they fall flat.

As for singles, however, the BBs mostly were able to catch up with the Beatles, but nothing they did this year, at least to me, could equal the brilliance of Please Please Me and I Want to Hold Your Hand.

Don't know what's the problem with singing praises to BBs & picking them over Beatles. Some posters here take it waaay too seriously. It's funny, generally, to see people freak out when, for example, poster A says BBs made better music, in any Beatles vs. BBs thread.

Just relax. Nobody takes away Beatles' legendary status. Sure as hell nobody will forget it due to lotsa polls, articles, reviews, charts, musicians' opinions, radio rotations...

If huge Beatles fans & objective position standers write down points about why there's no question Beatles take the cake all-round, let them do it. Can't speak for everybody but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I like BBs better.

1963 favorites - Surfin' USA, "Be True To Your School", "Little Saint Nick", "I Want To Hold Your Hand" & Paul's written great rocker in debut album, "I Saw Her Standing There". Doing the math, BBs win this year.

To get back to comparison discussion, actually we must be glad that BBs can't brag with such popularity & "the bestest band" title. They're famous, cemented their place in music history but not that famous. Casual people don't hear them daily, many don't even suspect about their existence. BBs' music isn't beaten to death by exposure. It's not weary, ubiquitous, anything like that.

I'm a US fan, so i had to vote Beach Boys, based on what was released here in the states that year. Introducing the Beatles may or may not have been released stateside in 63, but it didn't get noticed until 64. Aside from that, we have 3 or 4 singles on Vee Jay and Swan that nobody noticed at the time. Of course it is 2018 and i have heard all of those records, but i don't believe any of them can compare with what the Beach Boys gave us that year - 3 albums chock full of great tunes. I think the Surfin' USA album is seriously underrated. Had it on again a few nights ago, absolutely love those instrumentals. Dennis may not have been much of a drummer in the early years, but Carl and David sure could cut it on guitar. And the BB's harmonies in 63 are miles ahead of the Fab Four.

Easy for me, Beach Boys, every year, every time. No comparison.

I don't compare them based on popularity. If I did, then Barbra Ann would be better than You Still Believe In Me! Honestly, I think most of the Beatles songs before Rubber Soul are highly over rated. Lots of catchy songs, better on stage performers, and more press coverage. Surfer Girl was a step ahead of anyone in rocknroll musically as an album in my opinion in 1963.

First, great idea polling based on preference only and strictly on released material per year. It's the simplest and, IMO, fairest set up. The only issue is a few songs were released as a single in one year and then included on an album the following year. In those instances I'm not going to consider the re-release of a song (unless the initial release took place in 1962).

Second, this is tough!!! Let's review...

Both groups released approx. 34 songs in '63 (feel free to check)...

Some of my favorite '63 Beach Boys songs: Surfin' USA, Shut Down, Lonely Sea, Surfer Girl, Catch A Wave, Little Deuce Coupe, In My Room, Hawaii, Ballad of Ole' Betsy, Be True To Your School, Little Saint Nick, The Lord's Prayer. I enjoy quite a few others, a lot (I'm listening to Your Summer Dream right now - love it!).

Some of my favorite '63 Beatles songs: Please Please Me, She Loves You, I'll Get You (yup!), I Want To Hold Your Hand, This Boy, There's A Place, Baby It's You, Anna (Go To Him), Twist and Shout, It Won't Be Long, All I've Got To Do, Please Mr. Postman, You Really Got A Hold On Me, Not A Second Time, Money (That's What I Want). To keep this short, I left off some classics (bye Paul  ;)).

Can it be a tie? Whoever I listened to last is my favorite...

 :wallThe Beach Boys:wall

By the way, there was a similar thread a few years ago if you can't get enough of this topic...
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11806.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11806.0.html)

Result: The Beach Boys  19 votes

           The Beatles 10 votes

The winner is 1963 is The Beach Boys.

Of course that is completely unbiased on a Beach Boys board!  ;D

But I will vote for the Beach Boys as well.

I vote for The Beatles, but what do you know, the Beach Boys won a poll on a Beach Boys die-hard message board.  ::)

I mean, The Beach Boys are badly losing in the ‘64 poll....

The Beatles were S.F.A. in 1963.  The Beach Boys ate 'em. for lunch...as they have for most years since.

BEACH BOYS...by a country mile...x 10

Really happy! See? --> :D

The Beatles were a great band. Still, I can't imagine anyone believing the Fab 4's music in 1963 was anywhere close to Beach Boys quality.

So, yeah, I'm happy too.

Note to RangeRover: Your post on Page 1 was magnificent.

You really can't imagine *anyone* believing that? You really feel the Beatles' 1963 output was *that* inferior to the BBs?

I can't imagine anyone who truly knows both catalogs up and down having such an extreme view. I think anywhere but a BB message board, other well-informed fans or critics would hand the year to the Beatles. I *do* think a compelling argument can be made for the BBs, and reading such an argument is worthwhile. But I think it's beyond extreme to claim incredulity as to why someone would point to the Beatles' 1963 output being superior.

Uch.

I hate this stuff.
This is so uncool and dumb.

Go watch sports or porn.
This is the worst of fandom.

Pretty much. A needed perspective.

It's unfortunately not the first time I've subjected myself on message boards to, whether intended or not, being essentially gas lighted by extreme, "my team is better than yours" fans. That I'm now literally already dreading having to see the inevitable "1966" thread instead of looking forward to talking about "Pet Sounds" and "Revolver" probably should tell me all I need to know about popping into these threads.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. :)

I’m a little confused as to what the problem is here...Watamushi made a series of polls in which Beach Boys fans on a Beach Boys forum can compare their like/dislike of Beach Boys songs to Beatles songs during certain years.

Some fans have the opinion that Beach Boys music is far better than Beatles music during 1963 (they should be more than welcome to have this opinion without backlash. Seriously its a music forum and people are going to have weird opinions...I think SOS by ABBA is one of the greatest songs ever made in the history of pop music - I’m willing to admit that this opinion is utterly dumb and can’t be backed up statistically, but it’s my opinion and I have every right to feel that way about the song without being called out). Back to this thread: some fans (actually the majority who voted) have the opinion that the Beatles made better music than The Beach Boys...so just because one person makes an extreme opinion doesn’t mean the entire thread is something to disdain (edit, thought this was the 1964 thread, still, that thread proves people here can be open minded).

It is a poll that gets a lot of fans talking about their favorite Beatles/Beach Boys songs. In fact, I was inspired to play ‘Rubber Soul’ during a family gathering the other night after writing a post in one of these threads - think about that, this poll thread helped have some people who had never heard ‘Rubber Soul’ before listen and enjoy it. That’s worth every moment of these threads, if you ask me. So yeah, we could go watch sports or get some fresh air...or we could just be adults and be happy that we’re all different and have differing opinions. Maybe we can learn from statistics/facts and we can learn from people have solely a spiritual connection to either band.

@Watamushi - these polls have been great and thanks for posting them. I noticed on the PS forum that there was a ‘discuss a Brian Wilson solo song daily’ thread, is that something we could get going here at some point? Thanks again.

I think the main point is that “my team is better” type of threads represent some of the worst aspects of fandom. Having been immersed in fan bases for both of these bands for many decades and having been conversing about both bands on the internet for close to 25 years, I have to agree with that point.

"The Beach Boys won the poll, and that pleases me because I can't even fathom why anybody would think the Beatles were as good that year" - that kind of stuff is embarrassing regardless of which band you like more.

Imagine some new outsider, especially one who knows both bands well and likes both bands, coming onto this board for the first time and reading some of those comments. It's embarrassing. I don't run this board, I don't moderate it. I've just been here a long time and have been yakking about this stuff for decades and decades, and I'm tellin' ya, "the Beach Boys are super awesome and clearly were the better band every year" (I'm kind of exaggerating, but you get the picture) is absurd and embarrassing. It's anybody's right to feel that way, but I say both subjectively and objectively that that sort of stuff is embarrassing.

Doing a "Vs." poll and setting a bunch of rules about not mentioning any *objective* analysis is embarrassing.

A thread whose opening post has the phrase "forget about historical significance" is embarrassing. I'm not saying anybody shouldn't be allowed to post it. But geez, at that point just drop the "Vs. " thing and do a "The Beach Boys in 1963 - What Songs Move You the Most?" thread or something.

There are no rules limiting discussion.

I'd argue the point labeling this "the worst of fandom", because that was on display already and thankfully dispatched from this place almost 2 years ago.

Well, there are *some* rules that limit discussion, general board rules. But yes, nothing in this thread violates any board rules I know of. Which is why, in my previous post, I specifically said THIS concerning this thread:

I'm not saying anybody shouldn't be allowed to post it.

I meant more within the scope of non-inflammatory, cordial fandom. The "my team is better than yours" stuff doesn't involve name-calling or any unethical words or conduct. It's within the scope of fandom that I find it to be some of the worst aspects.

The stuff dispatched from this board was worse, but went beyond fandom. Some of that stuff was the worst of simple human interaction. Worse, no question.

“”My team is better” type of threads”

Yet most of the posts in this poll thread and the other poll threads have the utmost praise for Beatles music (not only praise but good discussion about their music) - you are taking a couple outlandish statements by people and then claiming the entire thread is a “My team is better thread” when none of them really are. I think most people have been respectful of both bands outputs. Sure, there have been some weird statements made in every thread, but mostly there has been civil talk about the music.

“A thread whose opening post has the phrase “forget about historical significance” is embarrassing.”

It’s a poll based on personal preference. I think it’s embarrassing that Watamushi’s rule “just vote based on which YOU personally most enjoy listening to.” is being raked over the coals. If there’s an anecdote about the song ‘Something’ that will make me actually understand why it was a popular song, I welcome that information, and maybe it will change my personal preference of the song. But if it doesn’t change my personal perception of the song then I shouldn’t use the historical information to influence my vote/opinion on it. I think that is Watamushi’s point.

Anyways, these poll threads have garnered mostly good discussion about both bands, so I welcome them.

I like keeping the discussion on a yearly basis too. 

Comparing the overall output of The Beatles v Beach Boys doesn't make sense because The Beatles bowed out at the time of their game.  While The Beach Boys, for better or worse, soldiered on through changing musical trends, changing lineups, deaths of key members, etc etc

I'd actually say, were I *forced* to keep pitting their stuff against each other, that pitting the 70s and 80s BB stuff against some solo Beatles stuff is more intriguing.

I was referring to the original post, as you were.

Ah, gotcha. Nevertheless, the thread's opening post actively discourages raising objective points of fact or other attempts at objective analysis. *That's* embarrassing in my opinion, for the Beach Boys message board of record that this board has always been. Maybe that sounds a little self-righteous, but on occasion I try to give a little friendly advice or insight based on my years of fandom and scholarship and internet-tery.

That would be interesting.  

I actually think they trend almost the same way in terms of quality, with the best material being released from 1971-73, and the rest up for debate depending on personal taste.  

Agree. When this thread began, I said what's the problem to tell that we like BBs in respective years (albums, singles) better than Beatles AND discuss Beatles' greatness, hits, Beatlemania, album tracks etc. I can't really fathom what's going on here. It's very easy thing to do - to say "I like BBs in 1963", i.e. preference stuff AND join objective (go-to HeyJude word) discussion about Beatles.
It's really funny to be upset with fans showing happiness that BBs won. It's such trifle.

To tell that it's embarrassing is insulting to the entire board, not the posts HeyJude replied to as such (which btw, I'm still not sure what was that. I tell my observations, the way I see it & next thing I see that, actually, what I said is considered "insult"! Can you believe it? To tell you I'm puzzled is understatement. Not to mention said poster speaks for everybody as if the poster represents the entire board ::)). It shows disrespect to people's views.

I'm not upset by such a sentiment. I just find it embarrassing and sad. I'd feel *exactly* the same way were it reversed and on a Beatles message board, etc.

If you're fist-pumping and saying "yyyyeahhhh!" because more people on a Beach Boys board (many of whom don't seem to like or be familiar with the Beatles' catalog of music) voted in a poll for the Beach Boys, then that makes me sad for this board. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious, I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic.

But this is the board where folks have uncovered deep BB mysteries. What really happened when Al left to "go to dental school?" Dennis singing some of the lead on IJMFTT. Landmarks books like "In Concert" or the new POB book. Stebbins scrubbing like a million falsehoods about David Marks from the historical record. C-man blowing minds with session research. Howie Edelson tellin' it like it is about C50. The list goes on and on.

All the while, Brian friggin' Wilson (and the rest of the BBs) will tell you it was the Beatles, and then everything else.

So yeah, "The Beach Boys beat the Beatles. That makes me happy" is sad and embarrassing, in my opinion.

Doesn't mean I don't encourage new fans, or that I don't encourage "Favorite" this or that threads even if they've been done a gazillion times over the years. But geez, what I wouldn't want to teach a new Beach Boys *or* Beatles fan is this "vying for the pennant" stuff. You don't have to like something *more* than something else in order to like it.

But people who said it *realize* Beatles' greatness. Again, why can't it be both - be happy for BBs AND think Beatles to be generally better, discuss them if you like? What's so difficult about saying you like BBs, be happy they win & right there discuss points about how Beatles is better/ greater band? I'd written this many times yet it keeps not being addressed.

But it is overdramatic when you're cherry-picking a couple odd posts then calling an entire thread out for being a "my team beat your team" thread. It shouldn't make you sad for this board when the majority of posts were civil discussion about both bands. There are always a couple people who can make outlandish and embarrassing posts on any message board, it doesn't make the entire board bad.

I don't think there's much more I can explain. I think being happy the BBs won a poll on a Beach Boys board against another band is just silly and embarrassing, looking from the outside in. Especially when the other band is the Beatles. One either gets where I'm coming from, or doesn't.

I've never ONCE sat down of my own accord with "Revolver" and "Pet Sounds" in front of me and thought about which one would or should win a contest.

Yes, I'll comment on such if it's brought up, especially when facts are being ignored or incorrectly stated. I have no problem saying both subjectively and objectively that there is the Beatles, and then everything else.

But I don't *start* from there. I just love it all. I'll *go* there if someone else starts telling me otherwise. I know these bands well enough, I'll go deep and parse with the best of them. Hence being roped into having to go cut-and-paste the inane lyrics to "Ten Little Indians" when people post a Beatles lyric as if "pfft, see? look how silly those lyrics are!"

Lennon vs. McCartney debates are dumb too. I've seen those *among* Beatles fans. As in, truly there are Beatles fans that seem to loathe one and love the other, or feel the need to constantly validate one over the other. What is *that*? I'd call that among the worst of Beatles fandom.

There's no problem with civility on this thread. That's all fine.

But "my team is better" is *absolutely* the entire crux of this thread. That's what the poll is, the poll that the thread is centered around. It's right there in the title. *VERSUS* As in, pick one. Which one do you like more? Which is better?

So, the crux of that poll is not something that I feel reflects the best of fandom. The absurdity of dismissing the Beatles' output (which, very true, only a few have actively done) is a separate but also embarrassing issue.

Again, the same would be true if everything was reversed. Indeed, I recall debating narrow-minded Beatles fans in the olden days of the Usenet, where they were throwing around all of the typical, WRONG stuff like "just a surfing band", etc. 

I'm in the "doesn't" camp then. What you say here doesn't make any sense & looks like making mountain out of molehill.

I stand by previous post reading your reply to rab2591 - you plain & simple disrespect posters liking BBs stuff better (who, btw, still emphasized that Beatles is great band. But of course, conveniently it's dismissed).

Difference is - you hilariously care & dread that some people will choose BBs in every year. I don't.

As long as people are acknowledging the greatness of both bands, I don't see an issue with a Beatles v Beach Boys poll. 

It's just a music forum where people are sharing personal reasons why they prefer whichever band. 

If you disagree with the point of the poll, why bother participating? 

I can see your point about people being somewhat dismissive of The Beatles or saying odd things like "The Beatles had yet to catch up to The Beach Boys artistically," but I think that kind of thing has been few and far between in the three threads so far. 

Ha! Good catch. :-D

At the risk of continuing to sound sanctimonious or patronizing, I've also been around the interwebs long enough to have heard the "if you don't like it, why comment?" argument about a million times. I get what you're saying, but clearly I was trying to make a more broad point, a bit of friendly advice for the collective. Which inevitably comes across as presumptuous, no question.

I regularly don't participate in threads where I can't add anything, or thread with topics that I feel are inane or are well-trodden territory. But I do think this "vs" stuff is beyond that and gets into truly embarrassing territory. People can call me overly-dramatic all they want, but it really is injurious to fandom in a way.

There's no way to say this without sounding too didactic or whatever, but when it comes to this type of stuff especially, my advice (nothing more than advice; I have no control over posters or the board) is to stop doing "versus" polls, stop saying why *this* Beach Boys song is better than *that* Beatles song, and just do a thread on how great some Beach Boys song or album is. Talk about "Pacific Ocean Blue" or hidden gems on "MIU" or how good Mike sounds on "All I Wanna Do", or whatever.

And, additionally, yes, I can't help but go against my better judgment and jump in, knowing what I know about the Beatles, when there are objectively incorrect things being asserted about the Beatles here. I've ignored more of it than not, and I'm not saying it's some huge, rampant problem. But yeah, it comes to the fore a bit in threads like this.

Really, while the idea of getting us all to appreciate all this music is all fine and dandy, nobody comes out looking particularly great having to s**t on something else (however politely) in order to explain what they like.

These threads also raise a bunch of other issues I haven't even gotten into, including hardcore fandom and how it can lead to tunnel-vision and closed-mindedness, and a bunch of other issues. But that's all the more reason to dispense with the "vs" stuff. Again, it doesn't bring out particularly great stuff across the board.

This type of vs thread isn't anything new to music fandom. 

Beatles v Beach Boys
Led Zeppelin v The Who
Stairway to Heaven v Freebird
Roth v Hagar
etc etc etc

Let's face it, it drives conversation, and it's not like this forum is devoted to the most active band in the world. 

I used to love watching That Metal Show on Vh1 Classic.  The final segment of each show was called The Throwdown, where they pitted two bands, songs, eras, or albums against each other and the three panelists, along with their guests would take two minutes to offer their two cents on the subject, and it was fun, and highly entertaining in my opinion.  Even if the road is well tread, I don't see any reason why it's not worth going down.   And of all of the comments on the three Beatles v Beach Boys threads, I see very little of anything I'd call embarrassing. 

You might have been on music forums since the inception of the internet, but that's not the case for everybody.   I've noticed in some cases, fans have taken these polls as an opportunity to reassess the material from one band or another. 

Like I said, there are plenty of threads on this board, if you don't like the A vs B thread, just move on. 

2HeyJude: You're right, it doesn't bring out good. For example, you. The vs. threads brought sanctimonious & patronizing attitude in you which you admitted (& please, without the "at the risk" bit). Clearly, you know your character, how you are & what you are. As everybody does. Then, I'll advise you to quit these poll threads & let the poll game continue, if you really find them embarrassing.

It's fun to compare. Many will agree that it's really enjoyable to compare various music bands & singers. It's fun to read who chooses what band, then the reasons why. It's really interesting & fun. Doesn't matter Beatles or sth. else.

I agree.   I've had a lot of fun comparing various albums, bands, songs, etc with friends, and other on MBs and Facebook music groups.   It's all part of being a music fan.   

If the debate is on a neutral forum, say the Steve Hoffman board or something, then as "been there, done that" as it may be, a "Roth vs. Hagar" debate at least doesn't have a built-in spoiler answer.

A Sammy Hagar fan forum having a "Roth vs. Hagar" debate would be equally unneeded. We know the answer, and it's like one big giant straw man poll.

Not that the debates in seemingly neutral forums are that great, either. I remember "That Metal Show", and while Eddie Trunk is quick with the heavy metal/hard rock inside scoop/gossip stuff, those game show-esque bits pitting one thing against the other was dumb then too. Much like that other VH1 music game show they had going for awhile, the one where Coolio spent an entire episode voting down the Beatles because they were just did "teeny bopper" music.

Bottom line, I'm wary of people talking about stuff they don't know anything (or enough) about. I wouldn't weigh in heavily on a Led Zeppelin vs. Beach Boys debate, not only because it would also be pointless, but also because I don't know enough about Zeppelin.

I can't think if a person I know personally who likes and knows well both the BBs and Beatles who ever sits there pitting one against the other. Again, I refer back to holding Pet Sounds and Revolver in each hand. I never think "which one is better?" If someone kidnaps you and forces you on a "Desert Island Discs" show, then you need to make a decision. Otherwise, it's two great albums, two great catalogs of music.

There's more then enough of interest and import inherently within their catalogs that we don't need to say one's better than the other in order to promote conversation. All as always in my opinion.

That's exactly it, KDS. Not only does it drive conversation, but it gets people to listen to the music. I can see what HeyJude is saying; a poll pitting one band against another, it's not exactly the best way to talk about this music. But at the same time, it's not being turned into a "my band is better than your band" thing, really most of us die-hard Beach Boys fans are stating that the Beatles were kings of the music world all-the-while the beach Boys are our favorite band. Sure, some are excited that the Beach Boys won a poll, ok. I've seen plenty of sporadic posts on this forum that make me scratch my head, doesn't mean the entire board is an embarrassment. But mostly these threads have driven conversation, and I think we should only be grateful that posters like Watamushi are helping stoke that conversation here.

I welcome HeyJude's posts about the Beatles and hope he continues to post in these threads - I made some flippant comment about George Harrison's guitar playing a while back and he set me straight about it, and it got me to listen to Cloud Nine...point being, it's nice that there are knowledgable people here willing to interject facts when generalizations are made. If people are saying stuff they don't know enough about, educate them! Get them excited about new music that they're clearly ignorant about. On the flip side of that, I hope those who are excited about posting here continue to share their opinions, whether they be grounded in historical fact, chart ratings, or just solely an ethereal connection to the music.

Idk, maybe these poll threads aren't 100% perfect in theory/practice. But I think that any thread that helps drive conversation/education about beautiful music should be around, if I want to claim that Surfer Girl is a better album than Please Please Me, I should be able to do so. If someone wants to share why they don't agree, do it! If someone gets excited that the Beach Boys won a poll, it's one or two people out of a board of tons of active members, it ain't the end of the world.

Just because you think the Throwdown portion of TMS was dumb doesn't make it so.  It was one of the more popular features on the show, and I think the only segment that lasted for the entire run.  

And the results of the 1964 thread prove that it's not necessarily a straw man poll like you say.  If it were, wouldn't The Beach Boys have run away with it?  

That's fine if you take issue with inaccuracy, but I'm not really understanding your overall problem with the "vs" topics.  

2HeyJude: By that bottom line you mean to tell us people in BBs vs. Beatles threads didn't listen to Beatles' albums & blindly stated they like BBs? What makes you think that way? For all you know, they could be very well-versed in Beatles. Some posters listened to either band back to back in the 60s. They lived during 60s. What gives you away that people may vote ignorantly? This holier-than-thou attitude is really getting tedious.

I think that reflects a very small number of Beach Boys fans who dismiss The Beatles for one reason or another (either because The Beatles were more popular or some fans might prefer a more pop minded vocal band as opposed to a more guitar oriented band), but I do agree that RR that the vast majority of fans I've seen on all BB related boards I'm one seem to hold the work of The Beatles in very high regard. 

Extreme view???  Like I said, *I* can't imagine why anyone would think the Beatles' music in 1963 was better than the songs the Beach Boys were producing in that same period. That statement in no way implies a belief that every other music fan must share that opinion.  I acknowledged in my first sentence that the Beatles were a great band.  And had the OP asked about my preference for the period covering the middle to late 1960s, I'm quite certain my response would have been "the Beatles."

It was never my intent to embarrass anyone simply by sharing my honest opinion. My apologies, sir; I'll try to clean up my act forthwith.

Hey Jude. I have great respect for you and always enjoy your posts, so this is in no way an attack on you.

I don't share 4th Wilson Brothers inabilty to imagine, but I do share his sentiment about quality, and extend it to the entire Beatles catalogue. I'm not trying to be hip, different,  ironic, difficult, or contrary.

I just don't like the Beatles music very much. I don't hate it. It just does nothing for me. It bores me if I'm honest. I genuinely put I Get Around, which I consider a piece of musical perfection, well above their entire catalogue.

Your seeming reaction  of utter incredulous disbelief is typical I'm afraid. A lot of Beatles fans genuinely dont get people who don't share their almost religuous devotion. Me, I couldn't care less if people hate the Beach Boys.

If I'm misreading what you appear to be saying then I apologise. I also apologise for being patronizing,  but you do need to accept the fact that their are some very musically minded people out there who don't share your love. They're not wrong, they just hear a different thing to you.

Rant over :)

Nice post, HVPIV.  And, like you, I normally enjoy HJ's posts and his obvious insight into all things musical.  I must admit, however, to being somewhat taken aback by his reaction to what I believe was an innocuous post in which I stated my preference for the BB's music circa 1963.  Did I take it a little far by stating that "I couldn't imagine" anyone believing the Beatles' songs were better during that period?  Perhaps; but I also never imagined that tiny bit of hyperbole would offend or cause anyone pain.  I was obviously wrong, so again, I apologize.

The 4th Wilson Bro., as you say, "I couldn't imagine" is very innocuous post. If you think that way, you musn't apologize for it. I got what you said & didn't think it was "extreme". Add hyperbole when & where you'd like to, it's not big deal. Let me send you back the compliment & tell you it was solid good post. :) Apologizing isn't necessary, not just for you but for everybody. Nobody must apologize; usually I find it very strange when posters do it, especially if I see the post in question is really well stated. :)

Boy. It sure seems people are being obligated to apologize for their opinion in this thread. That's kind of weird. (in my opinion)

Absolutely!

Folks, you're all entitled to your own opinions and you don't have to feel sorry about what your opinions are.

Yes. I said it 1st in previous post.

Was I weird?  Then allow me to apologize.  ;)