The Smiley Smile Message Board

There's a brief interview/puff piece with Mike on the ABC News website:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/beach-boys-mike-love-open-working-brian-wilson/story?id=44828961

I didn't think it was possible for him to get *more* condescending about the prospect of "working" with Brian again, but in the span of a couple of lines he both implies it's Brian on whom the onus is to "rectify things" as well as weirdly uses the choice of words that he would have to have any collaboration "under control."

If you were the potential collaborator in this scenario with Mike, would this sound like an appealing idea? Mike wants you alone, and wants to have it "under control." How strange. Here's the bit from the article:

Noting that Wilson "has expressed the desire to rectify things" with him, Love says, "If it were possible to make it just Brian and I, and have it under control and done better than what happened in 2012, then yeah, I'd be open to something."

Mike really needs to shut up, first bringing the brand under fire with the Trump stuff, then insulting BW again. Such a terrible ambassador for the group. ::)

I do appreciate, though, that the article gets right to the point and starts out by pointing out Mike not getting along with Melinda is the key factor.

But then, what does Mike want? Brian to get divorced?

Continually mentioning the unrealistic scenario of writing in a room alone with Brian is getting really old. I don't think Mike thinks it'll ever happen, and I don't honestly particularly think Mike is that interested in even doing it. It's just a way to get another dig in on Brian and Melinda.

Like I said in the other thread - Why launch this now? Jan 17th byline date...two days later Mike is playing a DC inaugural ball concert...and ABC News runs a story where the highlight is Mike being "open" to working with Brian?

Note the timing. Note the lack of the DC event on the 19th in the article at the link. All you need to know.

Ahh yes,

“I wonder about his health. He’s overweight and out of shape, and he doesn’t seem to pay much attention.”

"I haven't heard the song yet, I am sure with Al's voice and hopefully no autotune, the song will be great."

Interview responses just brimming with love and positivity for Brian.

Hey Brian, don't you want to be alone in a room with the guy who sued you, your wife, your friends, and business partners over a tiny picture on a freebie CD? Don't you want to be alone in a room with a guy who said your first solo album sounded like sh*t? Don't you want to be alone in a room with a guy who constantly brings up your prior drug use to the press? Don't you want to be in a room with the guy who recently said to the press "Unfortunately, Brian doesn't sing the range he once did."?

Sounds like someone I would want to be alone and "under control" with ::)

I would bet a lot of money that Brian will never work with this guy ever again. I mean, Wilson expressing "the desire to rectify things" - yeah Brian, you better apologize for being sued by Mike! You better apologize for all those tactless childish comments Mike made about you to the press!

The line in bold - I agree 1000000% and have been asking that as well. What does Mike want is indeed the question, and despite recent interviews from various podcast hosts, authors, and self-appointed "experts", there is no logical answer short of that hypothetical where Brian basically leaves his current life and family and marriage of several decades in order to smooth things over with Mike and write some hit songs like 1963.

Is it just me, or is this really getting beyond ridiculous and into delusion or something? The fact some "experts" seem to side with Mike on this issue makes me ill.

A cry for legitimacy, a way of reminding people that he's "associated" with Brian, at least, has been in the past. The weak call for "doing it again" is just a way of putting that association back into people's minds. I don't think he really expects the call to be answered, or even cares if they work together or not again. It's just an attempt at manipulating public opinion.

It truly is a strange way of thinking to have BW always at fault for problems that he didn't cause in the first place. Mike almost resents that BW put his life in order with a new family and solo career that left his BBs past behind.

I love the "no Autotune" line. You mean like "Alone On Christmas Day", Mike?    ::)

Maybe Mike believes in the idea of arranged marriage for Brian? (Arranged by Mike, of course).  It is sad that I am only half joking when I say that.

I too wonder what possible endgame Mike wants to achieve out of this continued complaining.

I'm throwing this hypothetical out there:

Could the rumors previously spread about Melinda Wilson be creating this aura of negativity surrounding her - making people like Mike not want to work with Brian?

A Beach Boys "historian"/"fact-checker" (who has previously gone out to lunch with Mike Love) passed on information (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23685.msg589052.html#msg589052) from an "impeccable" source to a moderator (of the most popular Beach Boys forum on the internet) that our very own SMiLE Brian was actually Melinda Wilson....Melinda was apparently using an account to libel Mike's band. This "historian"/"fact-checker" also passed along disgusting rumors about Melinda regarding the adoption of her children (both the apparent reason and the how). I firstly wonder who was initially spreading this information, and to whom this information was spread to (apart from the PM system of this board) and how high up these rumors got.

Those rumors I listed above are pretty damning to Melinda's character, and I just wonder if these kinds of rumors could be having an effect on the willingness of people to work with Melinda/Brian (as she is Brian's manager, correct?).

Keep in mind I know that there are so many other factors at play here: I haven't read Mike's little bio, but (as the posted article points out) according to Mike she was basically the reason the C50 ended - regardless of any recent rumors coming to light. But I wonder if there was a foundation of animosity laid down prior to the C50 (through any other rumors that could've been spread prior to that time) that lead to any hostility or irritation to work with her before work on the C50 even began.

It's difficult to say how any intermediaries could be impacting how Mike feels about Brian (or Melinda), or vice versa.

Given the inaccuracy of many bits of "information" put about by the person referenced above, I'm not sure how much *that* particular person could impact things. The takeaway I got from that episode was that that person *didn't* have enough of an inside track and thus ended up being wrong on numerous bits of info. 

But I've certainly seen other cases where seeming intermediaries appear to be making things worse. The David Beard "interview" with Mike from 2015 springs to mind; a case of concocting an assertion to much of anybody was making (in that case, that "No Pier Pressure" could have or should have been a Beach Boys album and it was Mike's fault that it wasn't) and appearing to do nothing but stoke Mike's anger by allowing Mike to write a de facto essay on why he shouldn't be blamed for someone that not much of anybody was blaming him for.

I *have* noticed that Mike's negative rhetoric about Brian/Melinda seemed to increase right around the time that Foskett joined Mike's band. It seemed like all of a sudden Mike was then speaking with more specificity about Brian being "controlled" and things of that nature. So I do wonder what the deal is on that one, but all we can do is wonder I guess.

:lol

(https://i2.wp.com/memecrunch.com/meme/SABX/the-miz-really-meme/image.jpg?w=825)

Yeah, the person I referenced above has very little, if any, clout in the Beach Boys world - I was more concerned with the people who he considered his "sources" and what information they were spreading, possibly to other people in higher places. I guess, for someone so staunch about fact-checking it would strike me that his sources would have to be people he trusted without a shadow of a doubt (considering the weight of the information that was being passed along) and thus perhaps people who did have access to insider information (and perhaps the ears of those higher up). This is an educated guess on my part.


I noticed this too. Funny how that looks....

I suppose I'll get judged by making this comment, but I do think that if the "wife's and managers"(not just Brian's) stayed at home, Mike, Brian, and Al could probably end up communicating again in a friendly way. I think that if they went back to being just the core group without any outside elements things would be a lot less complicated and less tense.

I think that's exactly what Mike wants.

Maybe it would be friendly at first, but of course that description casually ignores the likely scenario that things could once again become toxic in terms of the relationship between Mike and Brian. Not to mention Mike and Al!

If one believes that Brian is truly not at risk for being pushed around due to wanting to avoid confrontation, I suppose it's easy to think that minus the spouses, that everyone's relationship would "magically" go back to some good, non-toxic, healthy place, and that lots of great music would be created.

That, of course, ignores Mike's penchant for vindictiveness at not getting what he wants, kicking out founding member Al Jardine, effectively significantly contributing to Van Dyke Parks leaving the scene, Mike's crass reaction to Summer's Gone, Adult/Child material, blowing up and walking out on sessions for Old Man River, I could go on and on and on. I'm sure there are countless other incidents that have not been made public.

Mike has a long, documented history of rolling his eyes at much of his cousin's more interesting ideas (when Brian dares to explore beyond lame rehashes of old BB tunes), and while Mike decades ago definitely showed he had the ability to also write sensitive and quality lyrics, there's no reason to think that Mike's toxic, ego-driven behavior won't still rear its ugly head again nearly as soon as "pesky" spouses are out of the picture.

Mike does not appear to be as sensitive as he should be with regards to a very sensitive person. He has acted in all sorts of very uncool ways towards his bandmates during periods of time long before Melinda Wilson was in the picture, so really this is not about spouses. This has happened repeatedly, over and over and over again, without him taking responsibility for having acted regrettably towards his family or friends. Brian publicly called Mike out about the super lame Redwood incident where Mike guilt-tripped the crap out of Brian in Brian's book. Mike remains silent and unapologetic on the matter. He doesn't seem to ever properly acknowledge Brian's illness in any meaningful way beyond just solely blaming drugs.

Why does Brian, at his age, need to deal with this crap, or even the potential for it? If you really, truly believe Mike does not suffer from an empathy problem, maybe you can convince yourself it's a good idea, and that they'd get along "better". But take a look at the big picture, and based on historical observation, it doesn't seem likely that things would ultimately wind up in a good place.

Plus, now you are dealing with people who are getting to an advanced age, and extra stress/drama is really *not* something that Brian needs to even "maybe" deal with at this point.  

Century hit the nail on the head

I can't help but think that Mike has pinned any hope for personal happiness on the idea of sitting down in a room with Brian and collaborating. He just can't move on. Perhaps he remembers their collaboration days of the early-mid 60s as the happiest time of his life and wants to go back to that. And yet, if there's any chance of it, he keeps sabotaging it.

In his book, Brian said that he doesn't want to sit in a room and work with Mike, and that "it doesn't work that way anymore." That could mean any number of things, but it sounds like Brian has moved on, even if Mike hasn't.

Also worth noting is something I had forgotten since reading Mike's book, something I discussed back when I first read it.

Mike doesn't know Brian very well these days.

In his book, one of the more cruel characterizations is how Mike describes Brian being out of it during portions of C50. Mike describes relatively accurately (if perhaps with overdramatic language/characterization) that Brian has a lot of ups and downs and his attention and energy level wax and wane. But in the book, Mike seems to be *utterly shocked* about this. Something that any Brian fan has recognized for a couple of decades seems to surprise Mike. I feel like we've watched and read more Brian interviews in the last 20 years than Mike has.

So I think part of the issues that have been at play both in terms of C50 as well as Mike in the present day trying to characterize Brian or Brian's condition is that he doesn't know what's going on with Brian too much, because he has spent so little time with him in the last several DECADES.

Maybe Mike expecting Brian 50 years later to sit down a write a song the exact same way would be the equivalent of Brian coming into Mike's band asking where Carli Munoz and Dennis Dragon are. Mike's working off of *really old* information. I would think this would not be a difficult idea for Mike to grasp; that people change over the course of a half century. It's a basic human interaction thing, not something unique to Brian or the BBs.

I suppose that's possible; it's certainly at play to some degree in my opinion.

But I have what I suppose is an even more cynical view, which is that Mike is largely just saying stuff that puts the blame for his seemingly s**tty relationship with Brian on someone else.

Mike isn't describing any of the roadblocks that he (Mike) might potentially be introducing into collaborations. It's all on Brian.

I think it's a way for Mike to continue his "I'd love to work with Brian" bit that he's been doing for a couple of decades now; talking about it is WAY easier than actually doing it. 

It's ironic that the guy who brags about getting a #1 hit without the help of his cousin is the same guy who is whining that he hasn't been able to be alone with his cousin to make another hit.

He wants/needs this "alone with Brian in a piano room" viewpoint to stick with people which is why he is abysmally monotonous about it in interview after interview. The fact is that people who don't have the intellect of a child can see right through his pathetic attempt at swaying public opinion. Lawsuit after friggin lawsuit, a history of complete reprehensible behavior when it comes to Brian's music (ie Redwood), the passive aggressive way Mike has talked about Brian to the press - why the f*** would anyone want to be alone with this guy in a room?

Not to mention that yeah, Brian does have doctors because he has some mental issues - these doctors probably tell him to stay away from things that cause him mental stress. Being alone with the guy who has sued you (wife, friends, etc) time and time again doesn't seem like it would be a calming experience to me. Also, the people who manage his finances are probably hesitant to recommend that Brian spend plenty of alone time with the guy who sued him over a freebie CD.

Mike is just attempting to make himself look like the one who is "willing to collaborate" and extend an olive branch, while having no intention of ever pursuing it. he knows his scenario of working "alone in a room" with Brian will never happen, which is why he's happy to keep bleating on and on about it when asked. Brian has no interest in working that way with Mike, hasn't for decades, if he ever did at all. been there, done that.

Brian still creates new music the way he chooses and with whom he chooses. Mike still creates nothing but a nightly setlist performing almost entirely Brian Wilson songs, and the same shameful talking points interview after interview. it's too bad that outlets like ABC give him any publicity at all

After reading that piece of sh*t, I'm sure I'll be bringing up lunch before I finish typing this. Completely nauseating.

The last "hit" they wrote together was in 1974 with "It's OK"

  Mike has been pressing the "I was the idea man" angle very hard in recent years. Yes, Mike wrote many lyrics, but it's not like he was the idea man a la Pete Townshend or Roger Waters. I'm all for Mike getting his due but his (relatively) subtle portrait of Brian as an idiot savant who could arrange great harmonies has become offensive.

 One could make the case that Dennis was the "concept guy" - didn't he live the life?

 Mike Love has once again entered the realm of "insufferable." Less charitable fans might say he never left it.

 Hey Mike & Bruce: Just take next summer off. Maybe we'll miss you if you go away.

I hope you're not suggesting that I have "the intellect of a child" because I see it a slightly different way. Do I think Mike is manipulative? Yes. Do I think he can be horrible? Yes. Do I think he's totally passive aggressive about Brian and has his head in the sand when it comes to Brian's mental illness because it doesn't suit his narrative? Yes. However, I truly do believe that Mike also has some psychological issues of his own, and that there is part of him that's truly nostalgic for the good old days, when he could just hang out and laugh with "cousin Brian." I think he's bitter about the forces that took those days away, though, and he clearly fails to acknowledge the part he played... and the part that forces beyond anyone's control (not drugs, not wives) played.  It's appalling that he can't even make an effort to understand Brian and why Brian acts the way he does.

And I agree that Mike is toxic for Brian, and that it's completely understandable if Brian doesn't want him in his life. At a certain point, family or not, you have to stop surrounding yourself with people who are toxic. And Mike has been toxic for a long time.

I think we're very much alike in how we think about Mike. It's my opinion that in some instances he has been wrongly vilified for destroying Brian's creative vision (regarding SMiLE for instance - I don't doubt he had a negative attitude regarding the project, but I think he had every right to be critical of a very strange direction the "band" was taking at that time). And I have no doubt that he is truly nostalgic for the days when he could sit down with Brian at a piano and they could work out a hit song.

But I don't really buy that he still believes this room is a realistic possibility. Like Bossaroo said above, "he knows his scenario of working "alone in a room" with Brian will never happen, which is why he's happy to keep bleating on and on about it when asked.". I do also agree with the viewpoint you shared above (that he probably is genuinely nostalgic for the past) but I don't think it contradicts the idea that Mike has no actual belief that this scenario is a likely possibility.

Any B, I truly feel you hit the nail with your first swing.....PASSIVE AGGRESIVE.   Everyone take a minute and look up the medical definition (diagnosis) of this disorder....and then close your eyes......and think about Mikes continued behavior over the last 20 years.

At least (by SSmile accounts) Brian is medicated.  Just maybe someone else should be also....

On one hand, I've long felt that Mike's role in the band has been denigrated by some.  Granted, it's not as important as Mike himself seems to claim, but it's still hard to imagine the BB's without him. I also think he's sometimes been unfairly blamed for certain things--the failure to complete Smile is probably a good example of that.

As such, I've long tried hard to find it in my heart to love Mike Love.

But man he makes it hard sometimes.  And now is one of those times.

ML should just shut up. He's been a great singer and good lyricist (with some great moments) for the greatest band ever. With every new word coming from his mouth, or from his pen, he's only damaging his own legacy.
Not Brian's. Not the band's. His own.

P.S.
Alone in a room with Brian? Being in the same city is already too much.

Interestingly, if the theory is that Mike gave an "I want to work with Brian again" interview to try to sort of mitigate the bad publicity from doing other gigs, it appears to have worked. Here's an example of an article that segues from the report about the Texas gig to a perceived (e.g. the guy writing the article doesn't know what the f**k he's talking about) "thawing" of Brian and Mike's relationship:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-donald-trump-inaugural-ball/