The Smiley Smile Message Board

In one of the comments on the Fendertones' version of "Surf's Up" (featuring much of both Brian's band and the M&B band, including Mike and Bruce), one of the Fendertones attributes the vocal arrangement of the ending to Bruce. The tone of the rest of the reply is ironic (the arrangement, he says, "can be heard on some obscure releases") but I'm really puzzled about how seriously to take the rest of what he says. Is there any truth at all to this claim, is it something that has been generally known to BBs fans but just escaped my notice, or is he just putting on?

Here's the video which you've probably all seen by this point (the arrangement follows BWPS and features Brian's Stockholm group playing the strings):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKx6t8T9iwY

Here's a link to the comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKx6t8T9iwY&lc=z12tv334ownte12gd04ch1nz3qnvtp5w01g.1452969166381079

M&B taking credit again for BW's work.... ::)

It wouldn't surprise me that with BW's absence during he Surf's Up sessions, Bruce would've stepped up to the plate and maybe refined what Brian had arranged during the SMiLE sessions

I remember reading a story somewhere about Brian rushing down from his bed during the session to add a part to the coda.

What're you folks talking 'bout? That "Child is The Father of The Man" reprise/coda? If so, first we must sleuth whether or not it was even intended to be on the SMiLE album originally, or whether or not it was a post '67 addition, because either possibility could help us decipher who exactly wrote that vocal arrangement/melody at the coda. Right now, I'd bet my bucks on BW writing it down himself, because of how it very much sounds like a redundant Brian Wilson vocal arrangement/melody (the complexity, the scat voices that are jarringly similar to Brian's "CITFOTM" vocal melodies/arrangements circa '66, and just the mere thought of reprising a random SMiLE song at the coda of "Surf's Up" seems like a Wilson-esque move [*cough* *cough* Bicycle Rider on "Heroes and Villains"] because we must remember that Mr. Wilson sought out to create a "Teenage Symphony to God" with all of these songs), but then again, who knows? Can any Beach Boy enthusiast help us? Laugh out loud!

I should clarify that in my post I was referring to the Surf's Up album sessions.

Yeah, I'm just working on finding out whether this arrangement was written prior to those "Surf's Up" sessions, which might actually help us formulate or assume with greater understanding who might've actually written this arrangement. If Brian goes on record to say something like: "Bruce wrote it," then I'll take his word for it.

I've always been really curious about that lyric in the coda("A children's song..."). Who wrote it? When was it written? We know that it's not present in either the 1966 studio "demo", or the 1967 Smiley Smile era recording. It's also interesting to note that the Smile era recording of "Child Is Father of The Man", and the 1971 Surf's Up CIFOTM "reprise" are very different from each other in melody and tempo.

Both Brian and Jack Reiley have claimed to have written those lyrics.

I remember reading somewhere of an alternate lyric that was more "upbeat", I guess you could say. I think it ended with something like " As day is done, all the children carry on".

I think it went something like: The father's life is done, and the children carry on...

No evidence that the children's song coda was written or arranged prior to the Surf's Up album sessions.  Carl arranged the song according to Stephen, perhaps he could add to this thread his recollections, but Carl added the synth, the "begones" etc and edited the two parts together with Stephen.  My understanding is Carl had the idea to add "child" to the end, as the child chorus does fit easily over the chord progression - one can speculate that perhaps Brian intended that all along but if so he stayed mum about during the Smile sessions and after, and there is no evidence he was planning that from the 66 or 67 solo versions he recorded.

As they were working on the coda Brian came downstairs and contributed some lyrics, probably working with Jack.  So Jack claims credit but Brian definitely had input according to accounts by people who were there.

I always say use your ears and decide in these situations. Listen to the beginning and end of the original Smile era "Child", which of course became the coda in '71. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPz_PgFwpRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPz_PgFwpRU)

The percolating "child, child..." vocal arrangement is there. The bass line is there, the ground floor has already been put in place.

Getting the info from something Stephen Desper posted, Brian wasn't into the band revisiting Surf's Up, but he did show up one time and said there was another part which was supposed to go onto that section, then demonstrated it. And that was the "and they know the way..." part which became the key vocal melody on that coda in '71.

It's most of the 60's work on that track with that "new" or newly rediscovered melody/lyric on top, with the addition of some wordless oohs and ahhs as stacked chords in the vocal harmonies.

Draw conclusions from that, lol .

Don't know if Bruce did that arrangement or not, but he certainly would have been capable of it.  Not that it is that complex anyway.....

Do you even like this group? ::)

Hence, the screen name.  :o

Really?!?!?!?  ::)   I thought he was referring to Mike Smith of the Dave Clark 5.  Now there was a MIKE who really could sing leads.  ;)  Well... ... ...he could. :hat

Mike Smith was the greatest!! also.

This stuff's interesting. The other lyric they decided not to use was "Now the Father's gone, and the Children carry on". I think it reveals how perfect Surf's Up would've been as Smile's album closer. The Father (the main character) has grown old and died and his children now carry on. It's like that thing in the Pink Floyd Album the Wall, where a phrase is spoken at the end of the album and finished at the start of it. Smile could've been replayed over and over again. The whole life journey (American style), all over again for future generations to enjoy and discover. I think the lyrics in this part of the song is what Brian meant in his new book when he said he couldn't finish the song without Van. The lyrics seemed to've been the biggest reason why the Smile album wasn't finished. Van was gone and only he could finish 'em. I guess the reason why Brian sang the background melody during the demos is because that's all he had. And I think the Child thing wasn't Brian's idea. It's too obvious and it distracts. So let's just imagine Brian's background melody with the lead melody on top... Sounds much more heavenly.

Even though Stephen Desper - who set up Brian's mic and headphones after he came into the studio telling Desper and Carl he had the "missing" part of that coda, the lyrics and melody, then sang it - tells the story of Brian adding that part? This is the same Stephen Desper who decades later still had the sheet of paper from that session with Brian's handwritten lyrics for that section which he read from when he recorded the part, mind you.

So it wasn't Brian's idea even though the guy who literally pressed "record" on the tape machine as Brian showed up in the studio and sang the part said it was Brian?

Am I missing something?

Seems pretty conclusive to me. But whadooeyeknow?  ???

I think the "Brian came down and demonstrated the final part" idea is correct, from what I've read.  That doesn't eliminate the possibility that Bruce did the legwork on getting the background vocals ready to lay down on tape.

Gee, it's a shame that Stephen Desper isn't here to add some interesting tidbits, YOU IDIOTS

Watch yourself.

Fair.

Oh no, I meant the Child Is Father of the Man part. I'd imagine the 'Children's Song' was definitely original. But take it with a grain of salt. This is just how I feel about it.

And come on man, if you think I'm wrong, Say it! Don't be condescending, that wastes our time

Try using your ears.

What wastes time is fan-mixers who claim to know what Brian was going to do with Smile, or not do, and post said speculations and wild theories in spite of what is actually known.

I think it wastes your time the most. I'd imagine most people don't care. Plus you gotta remember this is exactly what Brian and Darian had to do in 2004: figure out what Brian was trying to do back in '66 via speculation, theorization and of course (the one thing we don't have); memories.

Here's what I don't understand: Did Brian bring forth the Children's song and the Child Is Father of the Man vocals? Or was it just one of those.


You said it! Someone should go catch up with him

I'm surprised no one remembers this from David Leaf's booK (pgs. 143-144):

"The vocal arrangements on Surf's Up weren't as full as those on Sunflower either, and that is mostly because Brian wasn't working on the album. Bruce recalls, 'It was strange to be doing vocal arrangements to make it sound like the Beach Boys when we were the Beach Boys. That's a little weird to me.'

"The resurrection of the song 'Surf's Up' is a confusing tale. Part of the album track was from a recording Brian had made for the 1967 Leonard Bernstein special; other segments were recorded in 1971 to fit in with the old track. Bruce: 'I remember thinking, "Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it." We ended up doing vocals to sort of emulate ourselves without Brian Wilson, which was kind of silly.'"

Thanks, c-man. Not all of us have that book (unfortunately!).

Well, if I voice this chord into Brian's part from the end of Carl's part, it'll sound okay and no one will know about it.

What part exactly is Bruce referring to here?

It sounds like he is referring to the "ooh" part that bridges "Part 1" and Brian's piano demo. Guess we can credit that piece to Bruce! And it would seem like Bruce (not usually the type to take undue credit?) did more arranging on the Surf's Up album than I thought.

David didn't have access to Steve Desper or Carl at the time he wrote the first edition of his book, so the details of how "Surf's Up" was resurrected did not surface until later. Bruce's comment actually references two parallel situations--first, the specific need to create a vocal arrangement for the tag of "Surf's Up" that had sufficient continuity to sound organic and not--for lack of a better term--"retrofitted"; second, the general tendency for the group to record backing vocals without Brian in the mix, an occurrence that became more frequent during Brian's reclusive years.

And Desper did make it clear in a thread here awhile back that Bruce was often the go-to guy for these types of vocal arrangements, particularly when Brian was absent.

But from Bruce's description above, I have to wonder whether he was actually referring to the little vocal bridge between the "Brother John" vocal into the "Dove-nested towers" section...because that is where we really go from Carl to Brian in the '71 version of the song.

"We" also don't have Brian Wilson sitting in a room listening and talking about the music, "we" don't have Darian acting as the musical scribe holding the available segments using editing technology Brian didn't have in 1966 to shift sections around on the fly and audition how they would sound on the spot, and "we" don't have the ability to call Van Dyke Parks to ask about a 40 year old lyric.

The talk about Smile for the past several years seems to go pretty much the same direction. One one side, people who state opinions which are based on faulty information or way out personal theories versus the real facts that can be established, and on the other people who may be more tuned into those facts than others. The more people who spout wild theories to support their own sequences on fan mixes versus getting the factual info down first, and the more they blur the lines between trying to justify their own fan mixes versus learning and discussing the actual history, you're right - The less people will give a sh*t what they have to say and will tune out. That I agree with.

Get the history down first, get the facts and get them on your own versus "fact checkers" and other ersatz historians and collectors. It's out there if you look for it, the real deal.