The Smiley Smile Message Board

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The final version of Wind Chimes sounds amazing. I would love to know what the main chorus vocals were. According to documentation, Brian sang them. Does any one of us mortals know if the Durrie Parks acetates include this. Does any one of us ignorant mortals want to try and replicate this?

What's also interesting is that this disproves the theory that Wind Chimes is air. Brian finished Wind Chimes. We've just never heard it. So the piano tag in WC is NOT the unfinished piano piece for air.

The main chorus vocals  are on The Smile Sessions and on the Good Vibrations box.  To me it sounds like Vosse is describing the "bom, bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom bom" chorus we've all heard, but apparently on this lost acetate, instead of all the voices coming at once, he fades in the voices one at a time and gets them to sound like percussive instruments.  Think "bom" like a thump on a bass drum.  No, this mix was not on the Durrie Parks acetates.

Not necessarily. 

The main chorus vocals are lost. Brian sang lead on vocals. And yeah, I like that idea of the "bom-bom bom-be-bom-bee" bringing in the other vocals. That's probably what he was talking about. I also suspect there were harmony vocals in the verses too that might've followed this patter. Another thing I think he might be mentioning, on the reference to changing rhythm, is the the false start with the chorus vocals we hear on some bootlegs. It's funny and it helps us transition to the different tempo in the chorus better.

I use to think the same way. But I now do honestly believe that Wind Chimes is just Wind Chimes. At the moment, I'm totally 50-50 on it. That unfinished piano piece Brian mentioned is probably the link in Love to Say Dada, the one in between Part 2 & Part 2 (2nd Day). Brian plays the full piece on the Cool, Cool Water Version 2 track on the Smile Sessions Box Set, right after he runs through cool, cool water's verse. I think this piece is where people get the "Country Air was the air section" theory, because the piano section he plays has a bit where I can easily sing "get a breath of that country air". And I can totally understand that. The air version of Love to Say Dada is in the key of G, so is the Country Air verses.

I don't mean all of Wind Chimes, just the tag.   The tag to Wind Chimes fits this description of Air.  It's a piano piece that was never finished (because Wind Chimes was remade from scratch for Smiley Smile), and obviously the connection between air and wind. 

How do we know Brian sang a lead vocal on the chorus?  Carl sang the verses.  No chorus lead vocal is on the tapes and session documentation isn't specific on who sang what.  And what were the lyrics on the chorus?  If there were lyrics, wouldn't those have ended up on the Smiley Wind Chimes?

Vocals were recorded Oct 10 with 6 Beach Boys for Wind Chimes, which is the only vocal session documented.  No mention of Brian singing a lead on the chorus, unless you are saying he is singing on the "bom bom bom" parts which he probably is.  It would be great to find the vocal session for Oct 10th, it seems we only have the finished multi-track - that would give us an idea of how finished the song was and if Brian was planning anything else for the song.  Vosse seems to think the acetate he heard was essentially finished.

Yes the Beach Boys did overdub further on Wind Chimes on October 10th. But the vocals we've heard were recorded on October 5th. The assembly was made. Carl's verse vocals, the backing vocals for the chorus, and then Brian overdubs his lead vocal over the group's harmonies on the chorus. Then on October 10th they come in again for more vocals. The October 10th vocals are the ones on the acetate.

The only problem is, were there vocals recorded over the piano track? And the answer doesn't really matter since Wind Chimes seems to have been finished either way. So yes, the piano tag fits the bill in every category, except the unfinished mark.

Yes that is one way to look at it.  But another way to look at it is that it wasn't finished.  The finished recording was what we hear on Smiley Smile, which the Wind Chimes tag was not a part of. 

If you see it that way then you're looking at it through a kaleidoscope. The evidence is that Wind Chimes was finished mixed and mastered (the smile version that is), we just haven't heard it. It's unfinished to us. The smiley smile version is just a mashup of Holidays and Wind Chimes. It is not what Michael is describing because the vocals aren't used as percussive devises or to help change the tempo of the song. I believe the unfinished piano air section is Love to Say Dada Part 3. To hear the recording, listen to Cool, Cool Water Version 2 on the Smile Sessions box set. After Brian plays the verse on the piano, he plays LSD Part 3 and you can sing "get a breath of that country air" briefly over it. It makes perfect sense too because they only recorded and finished the first part of cool, cool water. They never even made an instrumental version of that piano section.

You mean like this?  :3d

It depends on your definition of "finished".  Were there many different finished versions of things throughout the year?  Or when you step back and look at the bigger picture, was nothing truly finished until the album--Smiley Smile--was completed?   Judging by the nature of this album, how pieces seemed to shift from song to song, I'd have to say that nothing was really finished until Smiley Smile.  Actually, some believe it wasn't even truly finished until 2004!

Take your Vosse quote for example:  "At that time it was considered a tentatively finished product..."  The words "At that time" denotes that it was in a finished state, but then ceased to be.  How can that be?  Something is either finished... or it isn't.  Right? 

Wrong.  It was in a constant state of flux.  It was perhaps in a finished state when Brian compiled a master on 10/5/66 (which we have heard btw, and Linett emulated for the Good Vibrations boxset) of Wind Chimes.  But then the tag  could have been pulled from Wind Chimes to become the Air piece for The Elements, thus making it unfinished.  Similar to how The Old Master Painter was finished, but the fade was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Old Master Painter in an unfinished state.  Similar to how Do You like Worms was finished (minus vocals), but the chorus was pulled to Heroes and Villains, leaving Do You Like Worms in an unfinished state. 

And it did not become finished (in Vosse's mind) until the Smiley Smile version, which is the version of Wind Chimes for nearly everyone else in the world for over 25 years. 

I agree with this.
I can't see any evidence that WC had more vocals on them, other than ones we have today on Smile sessions.
I think the version that Vosse heard was the one that we heard on bootlegs (SOT vol 17, disc 3, track 8 ), and with "aid" from other stuff :smokin he heard it "somewhat" different!

:lol


It is unknown if Do You Like Worms was finished (vocals or not). Multiple sessions were held. I said this on another thread: "just because we haven't heard it, doesn't mean it never existed".
And the Chorus was not pulled from the song. Brian just did an instrumental and vocal overdub for it at a Heroes and Villains Session. Why it was titled Part 2 is quite simple I believe. The 1st Bicycle Rider chorus is underneath the overdub (the 1st chorus is the one with the kick drum). Brian was just overdubbing his vocals for the 2nd chorus. And he decided to add a fuzz bass. 2nd chorus vocals; Part 2. That's a way to look at it. Plus it's difficult to label things based on Tape Box identification. Holidays was found in a box labeled Tune X. Tune X was found in a box labeled Wonderful. I Ran was found in a box labeled Holidays.
Also, Do You Like Worms is a part of Heroes and Villains thanks to the Bridge to Indians. Not just Bicycle Rider. Most people misunderstand this. Heroes and Villains was to form some sort of overarching suite that would tie in multiple songs together. H&V would bring in DYLW and DYLW would bring in Cabin Essence, etc. So Bicycle Rider labeled as H&V does not mean that just Bike Rider was absorbed into H&V.

October 10th vocal session with all 6 Beach Boys. Micheal Vosse's testimony. Documentation indicating Brian overdubbed a lead vocal over the group's chorus harmonies after the boys left on October 5th. I said this on another thread. Every surviving piece of Smile is incomplete. It is missing something. There's a pattern here. None of the masters were retained. Wonderful is missing it's insert (the insert survived, but Brian's mix didn't). Same goes for the vocals. The smile tapes that remain are drafts. Fire is missing it's vocals. Do You Like Worms is missing vocals. Instrumental tracks and their vocals are "lost". There is not one Smile song that survived in it's complete form. That's why it's fun to read testimony like Vosse's and envy the opportunities he had.

How about "Our Prayer"?

True. True. It's an intro. An intro to what though? It's more of a section than a song. And we have lots of those.

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And "You're Welcome"! :P

The album...?

You feeling that acid yet?

Billy needs to post the space goat meme!

Brian is clearly heard stating it's an intro to the album during the tracking sessions. 

It's amazing that you'd mention that because I was casually listening to the session for You're Welcome today on the Smile Sessions Box Set (and I highly recommend you do because they start goofing off and it contains some of the most hilarious gags on all the smile footage). But Brian mentions the order and says that the first section will be normal (vocal wise), then they start imitating ghosts and old men. The first section with the "orchestra" is the part we've heard. But we're missing the ghost and old men versions.
Funny. This might be the end of the life idea of the Album actually. The sections starts out as a regular marching band, they go to old men, then they're ghosts. WOW! This must've been the amen thing. Born in music. Die in music.

If you have no idea what I'm talkin' about, listen to the session here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8zfmLIAi90&list=PLApyhECLlb9-LAxB50ur_2CqhER-8jJBY&index=107 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8zfmLIAi90&list=PLApyhECLlb9-LAxB50ur_2CqhER-8jJBY&index=107)

Oh, no. My bad. I mean what song/section comes after it?

Just because we haven't heard it, doesn't mean we should bank on it's existence.

So... either they are all connected and it is some vast I Ran the Wonderful Holiday X conspiracy, or someone just misfiled the tapes at some point in the last 50 years. 

Which is more likely?

Show me the test mixes of this, and I'll believe it.  Until then, we need to add a big MAYBE to your above claim.  It is reasonable to believe Bridge To Indians was meant to link the chorus that was lifted from Do You Like Worms, because that specific section was embellished as a second part to Heroes and Villains; in contrast it is not reasonable to think it connects to a completely different song because 1) there is no direct evidence of it and 2) we know VDP has stated the album would have been 12 banded tracks, which were not segued into eachother. 

Just because the dots can be connected, doesn't mean they are.  I believe in Occam's Razor: the answer that makes the least amount of assumptions is often the correct one.  While your opinion is valid, I think you are making a lot of assumptions. 

I believe I Ran was meant as an insert piece to Good Vibrations (which is probably why it was never listed). My theory can be heard here.
https://vimeo.com/182498068 (https://vimeo.com/182498068)
Musically it makes since. Like other Wilson comps, the Bass dictates the change.

I'm just going off what musical evidence is left. Bridge to Indians interrupts the 2nd Verse (like the Part 2 insert in the Smiley Smile Version), and takes us to Do You Like Worms Part 1. Bridge to Indians can't go straight to Bicycle Rider because Bicycle Rider is in the key of Gm, while Bridge to Indians lands on a C, which is a note not contained within the Gm chord. Do You Like Worms begins on an F, and the F chord contains a C. My test mix example can be found here:
https://vimeo.com/182612766 (https://vimeo.com/182612766)

Bridge to Indians WAS found in a test mix. They remastered it and put it on the Smile Sessions Box Set here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZDgoGrWFOM&index=45&list=PLApyhECLlb9-LAxB50ur_2CqhER-8jJBY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZDgoGrWFOM&index=45&list=PLApyhECLlb9-LAxB50ur_2CqhER-8jJBY)

And who cares what Van Dyke said. He didn't even know how Heroes and Villains went until Brian played it for him at the Humble Harv' session. He was as much in the dark about the music as Brian's Entourage was.

With an attitude like that, you'll never find an answer. Only through constant experimentation can we get answers. And I do agree with the assumption bit. I am making them. But what else can I do?

.

Yeah, I listened to your edit earlier.  In my opinion it's possible, but not probable.  They recorded vocals on 10/13/66 for I Ran (formerly Untitled Song #1) three days after the Good Vibrations single was released.  That would mean Brian was still working on Good Vibrations three days after it's release date.  I don't find that probable, but let's play devil's advocate and assume that's what happened--- Well, that's a very interesting factoid, that one of The Beach Boys' most beloved songs and one of the greatest of that decade was still being worked on after it was released.  Surely, that was a story that would have been remembered and told, by anyone close to him?  Also if it's true, why is I Ran subtitled "formerly Untitled Song #1" instead of "formerly Good Vibrations Insert"? 

So in this case, the song Heroes and Villains is only 50 seconds long? 

No I mean a test mix of Heroes and Villains and Do You Like Worms as one big piece. 


Really?

Brilliant point you made on the title of I Ran! All Brian said was "We have no title". But maybe he said something different on the vocal overdub tapes. But the fact that he wrote a song based off the musical idea introduced in Good Vibrations I think means something. It's an insert piece! And Brian wasn't working on GV 2 days before it was released. He finished tracking the song on September 5th. I Ran was recorded August 12th incidentally.  And it's fantastic that I Ran had vocals recorded right before GV was released! It proves I Ran wasn't a B-Side attempt. This also proves that Good Vibrations would do with I Ran what H&V does with DYLW (on the album of course). You see how this literally is a teenage SYMPHONY to God?


You're asking for the smoking gun at that point. That's like I said earlier with Wonderful and it's inserts. We have 'em, just not the mixes of 'em.

Really. When Darian played Van Dyke Holidays in 2004, Van claimed he never heard it before. He played Vibraphones on it!


Oh no. This is where it gets interesting. Somehow after DYLW part 1, we'd find ourselves listening to All Day, which then goes into Pickup to 3rd Verse which goes back into the H&V verse (specifically, the third)!

I'm sorry, I'm not hearing the musical similarities between Good Vibrations and Look.  They are in different keys and don't seem to be the same chord sequence at all.  But i think most importantly is that Look is a self contained song with several sections, itself having inserts (or at least an interlude).  It seems odd that an insert piece would have several repeating sections within itself. 

What are you referencing here?  I might have overlooked it but I haven't seen a Wonderful insert aside from the "mamamamama" tag for the Rock Me Henry version (which only appeared in that version rather than the other three versions). 

The tag section in Good Vibrations has only two instruments in it: a bass and a tambourine. The Bass starts out by playing F# 4 times, then G#, then A# and then back to G#. The Bass note for the opening section of I Ran is F#. The opening section of I Ran has the exact same tempo as the tag in GV. If you could, you could mute the bass in the tag so only the tambourine plays through, and it matches up perfectly with I Ran's tempo.

It is odd because it's not really an insert. I literally meant the word "piece" when I said insert piece. A piece as in a piece in a symphony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hMjxnwig0o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hMjxnwig0o)
Take this for example. This Russian Dance is just a piece in the Nutcracker ballet (a 2 movement one at that). We all know the famous piece "the Nutcracker". We hear it all the time around the holidays. But in it's entirety, it contains MANY other various pieces and sections. I believe this is what Smile was to be like. Starting with Good Vibrations. And yes, I Ran (like the Russian dance) has many repeated sections. So maybe that explains why I Ran was never titled as "Good Vibrations Insert Piece". Plus, the last thing Brian needed was more tape labeled "Good Vibrations".


He gives speeches
But they put him back in bed
Where he wrote his satire

And I've yet to figure out what Version 3's insert was. I'm suspecting that "walk Child" piano bit. But I haven't gone to the piano and checked the chords yet because I'm still trying to figure out which version of Wonderful to use, since Version 1 was labeled as a B side for Single material.

Oh wait, I see what you are saying.  The "na na na na na na" melody in Good Vibrations at 3:13 is similar to the glockenspiel melody in Look at :042, and they're both in F#.  That's very interesting.  It still defies reasonable logic that it was intended to be a part of Good Vibrations.  He could have been echoing a melodic theme, or it's just coincidence. 

Or another explanation is that Brian stole that melodic bit from Look and used it in Good Vibrations, since they tracked those vocals on 8/24/66, just twelve days after tracking Look.  That would explain why Look bit the dust for Smile, even after a set of vocals were recorded. 

Exactly! And yeah he could just be echoing the theme. It's amazing because that's how a symphony works. It hit me around late July that when Brian said he was writing a teenage symphony to god, he really mean the symphony part! And that is so exciting because we've had sooooo many rock operas. But we've never had a pop symphony! And speaking of reasonable logic, who saw the organ part in GV coming? It hits you out of left field. It's unpredictable, and that's why it's exciting.


Nope. Brian mixed the instrumental track of GV on September 5th. If that was the case, then Good Vibrations would go straight to the fade after the organ part. It's a nice theory, but the only problem is that it brings us back to the drawing board and it pulls out that "Brian cannibalized Smile" card. And I don't think Look bit the dust for Smile. It was mixed into Good Vibes, vocals were recorded, and then it wasn't mention again. At the moment I am toying with other pieces that could also fit into GV (specifically Wonderful v2), but I'd rather test that out first before I publish anything.

It's often pretty futile to use the word "prove" when talking about SMiLE. Knowing as little as we do about Brian's original intentions, it's damn near possible to come to any solid conclusions based on the info available. For all we know, Brian could've just junked the whole "Teenage Symphony to God" idea at some point and just thrown on 12 tracks in a straightforward order, hypothetically speaking. I definitely have fun putting together my own mixes and whatnot, but I find it tiresome to endless try and speculate what it all exactly sounded like at one point in time. I guess I'm just more of a pessimist when it comes to SMiLE!

I just like to use the word "prove" so I can get excited. It helps me feel like I'm making progress, and it keeps me from becoming pessimistic. I believe that every single thing recorded for Smile was meant to work with something else. I believe in the notion that Brian would only go into the studio if her knew how the pieces would fit together.

Not sure what you mean.  If GV was finished in early September, then he could have stolen the melody from Look, which was recorded in August. 

Sorry! Didn't mean to confuse. What I meant is Brian assembled the instrumental track of Good Vibes on September 5th. The vocal sessions proceeded afterwards, so no the song wasn't technically finished. I was just trying to prove that Good Vibrations had the "na na na na" melody first.

When did it have the na na na na melody, September?

Look had it in August... 

The section in GV we keep referring to is known as Part D / Fade Sequence. The section was recorded on May 27th 1966.

The vocals or the baking track?  According to the Sessionogrophy, the actual vocals (with the na na na melody) were tracked between 8/24 and 9/1, after Look was tracked on 8/12

Have I mentioned I'm really digging this thread? :)

I'm with you on this, Sonic! It's ok to try to play with various pieces of Smile puzzle, and I'm first to listen and praise any effert like Lee managed with GV/Look mashup. Others have done similar things (like Seltaeb) and I love to listen such mashups, but to claim that BW did something similar and that every such mix is lost/erased..I don't know...

Let's play with Smile tracks/sectons, and leave it at that, 'cause like M. Linnet said there was no Smile album in 1966/1967... maybe just an idea of how it could all fit together in Brian's head...

I feel great...

Next?

Just the instrumental. The vocal sessions went into full swing after Sep. 5th. But Brian had the melody by May.

He had the na na na melody before it was recorded?  Where can I hear this? 

Hi sonic! Actually, you know, he didn't have the "Na na na na na" melody at first. The first thing recorded on that section was the "'Te-Tay-Te-Tatiiioooonnnnnsss" vocals. By my ear, I think that melody line fits over the Intro to I Ran pretty well.

One thing I'd like to bring up is why the vocal track for I Ran was listed as a minute longer than the song. Was there some kind of insert to it? There are pauses in the song. The first 12th street rag section going into the verse. And then the 2nd (less booming) 12th street rag section going into the chorus. Are we missing something?

The released edit of Good Vibes wasn't the final edit also. Brian tinkered with it more and added more material and eventually realized he couldn't top that edit.


It's interesting to note what other material was recorded around the time Good Vibes was being finished. I Ran, He Gives Speeches and Wonderful. Wonderful was noted as material for a Single (could it've been planned as the B-Side? That would've been fantastic!) I think all of these pieces were recorded for Good Vibes.

I think He Gives Speeches was another idea for a Bridge in Good Vibes. It's the same progression as the Organ Bridge. It was recorded after Brian gave up on the fuzz bass bridge and before the organ bridge. Using the information Brian revealed in his new book, I'd imagine he would've used an eltro to raise the pitch up to Bb and bring it back intro the reprise chorus. I'm just amazed though at how crazy it sounds (lyrically). How could it've fit into Good Vibes??

In the end, Brian decided not to use I Ran, He Gives Speeches or Wonderful for the single, so they were left over for either being included on the album or not.


Totally agree. And thanks!