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Title: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: maggie on August 29, 2016, 07:58:59 AM Apologies if this is an old or stupid question.
Most of the BBs' '60s albums had at least one instrumental. The exceptions are LDC, Christmas, Today, Party, and WH -- 5 out of 15, and two to three of those are arguably stopgaps, not "proper" albums. Notably, Both Pet Sounds and Summer Days had had instrumentals. Thus, one might assume that having an instrumental track or tracks to include would have been "expected" by Brian and/or the group for any given album as it was being planned and recorded. Do you believe that Smile '66/'67 was expected to have an instrumental track or tracks in this way? And, if so, which ones? Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: bummerinparadise on August 29, 2016, 08:34:40 AM Mrs. O Leary's Cow, I Wanna Be Around / Workshop, Holidays would've probably been on SMiLE had it been released. Who knows what else Brian was planning before the project went off the rails.
Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Bicyclerider on August 29, 2016, 08:37:06 AM Besides The Elements, which would likely have had wordless vocals, The only candidate that comes to mind is Holidays - no vocal sessions, unlike Look/I Ran, and it sounds pretty great as an instrumental. But of course it didn't make the December list . . . But it could have been added to the album later if it was being readied for release in February.
Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Wrightfan on August 29, 2016, 10:57:18 AM Yeah but the Holidays sessions clearly has Brian singing a melody line to one of the session musicians.
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, Love to Say Dada and I wanna be Around/Workshop are the only ones to me that feel instrumental. And even then, that cancelled Dada session could have been a vox one. Seems like they had recorded all the music for it. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: zosobird on August 29, 2016, 11:29:49 AM imo:
The Elements - "fire" in particular with just the wordless chant on top of the track - if the "water chant" or some idea of it was "water," then that too. Perhaps the whole "elements" track Our Prayer - again, if "chanting" does not discredit, then how can our prayer not be in the conversation? I'll just put this here: Noun 1. instrumental music - music intended to be performed by a musical instrument or group of instruments music - an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner I do not think these would have been instrumentals: Love to Say DaDa - without going into whether or not this was going to be part of SMiLE, the track sessions do have vocal chants, which makes me think that they were going to be part of a larger whole vocally (just like Worms and CIFOTM), and would have had lyrics if it was completed in this context Friday night/workshop - i believe this fragment was not going to be a standalone track, but rather part of IIGS and therefore would be attached to vocals. Plus there is a very audible "OUCH!!" Holidays - I do not believe this was going to make the final album cut.. and to hear Brian sing a melody during the sessions makes me believe that vocals were intended for this track Look - same...plus we know that there were supposed vocal tracking sessions Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: The_Beach on August 29, 2016, 12:11:33 PM Our Prayer, and the Elements for sure! I bet one more would have been added or changed and been an instrumental on the album. I would guess 3. Pet Sounds had three sorta.
Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: KDS on August 29, 2016, 01:27:47 PM . Pet Sounds had three sorta. Let's Go Away For Awhile Pet Sounds What's the third sorta one? Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Wrightfan on August 29, 2016, 01:44:02 PM . Pet Sounds had three sorta. Let's Go Away For Awhile Pet Sounds What's the third sorta one? Maybe he's talking about Here Today? Lot of instrumental breaks in that. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on August 29, 2016, 01:49:03 PM . Pet Sounds had three sorta. Let's Go Away For Awhile Pet Sounds What's the third sorta one? Maybe he's talking about Here Today? Lot of instrumental breaks in that. Maybe the Trombone Dixie bonus track? Anyway, I agree: Our Prayer and The Elements would have been the wordless tracks. When I think of all the vocal moments we are lacking, it's very sad. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: maggie on August 29, 2016, 01:55:13 PM Isn't "Our Prayer" the exact opposite of an instrumental?
Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: KDS on August 29, 2016, 02:00:01 PM . Pet Sounds had three sorta. Let's Go Away For Awhile Pet Sounds What's the third sorta one? Maybe he's talking about Here Today? Lot of instrumental breaks in that. Maybe the Trombone Dixie bonus track? Anyway, I agree: Our Prayer and The Elements would have been the wordless tracks. When I think of all the vocal moments we are lacking, it's very sad. Didn't think about Trombone Dixie. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on August 29, 2016, 03:44:09 PM Isn't "Our Prayer" the exact opposite of an instrumental? Haha yes. Which is why I said "wordless track" which wasn't your question. So I think The Elements would be the only instrumental. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: ThreeCats on August 29, 2016, 05:26:44 PM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well.
I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: maggie on August 30, 2016, 04:56:00 AM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well. I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. But "Dada" has the "wa-wa-ho-wa" vocals...and it really sounds bare and unfinished, i.e. lacking a main melody that I have to assume vocals would provide (unless Brian intended to overdub a clarinet or guitar part or something, seems doubtful). Surely "I Wanna Be Around" would have had a lead vocal too; it too lacks its main melody (unlike "The Old Master Painter"). Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: The_Beach on August 30, 2016, 09:38:26 AM . Pet Sounds had three sorta. Let's Go Away For Awhile Pet Sounds What's the third sorta one? Maybe he's talking about Here Today? Lot of instrumental breaks in that. Maybe the Trombone Dixie bonus track? Anyway, I agree: Our Prayer and The Elements would have been the wordless tracks. When I think of all the vocal moments we are lacking, it's very sad. Didn't think about Trombone Dixie. Yeah I am talking about Trombone Dixie bonus track. i am thinking if he had 3 attended for pet sounds the he might have been thinking in the same direction with three for Smile. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: ThreeCats on August 30, 2016, 01:25:58 PM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well. I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. But "Dada" has the "wa-wa-ho-wa" vocals...and it really sounds bare and unfinished, i.e. lacking a main melody that I have to assume vocals would provide (unless Brian intended to overdub a clarinet or guitar part or something, seems doubtful). Surely "I Wanna Be Around" would have had a lead vocal too; it too lacks its main melody (unlike "The Old Master Painter"). Fire has vocals too but it's still considered an instrumental. I think that Dada would have had more wordless vocals, but no actual lyrics. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: maggie on August 30, 2016, 02:51:09 PM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well. I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. But "Dada" has the "wa-wa-ho-wa" vocals...and it really sounds bare and unfinished, i.e. lacking a main melody that I have to assume vocals would provide (unless Brian intended to overdub a clarinet or guitar part or something, seems doubtful). Surely "I Wanna Be Around" would have had a lead vocal too; it too lacks its main melody (unlike "The Old Master Painter"). Fire has vocals too but it's still considered an instrumental. I think that Dada would have had more wordless vocals, but no actual lyrics. "Fire" has vocals? Aren't the vocals on the track on the Smile Sessions from "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter"? Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: ThreeCats on August 30, 2016, 03:06:43 PM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well. I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. But "Dada" has the "wa-wa-ho-wa" vocals...and it really sounds bare and unfinished, i.e. lacking a main melody that I have to assume vocals would provide (unless Brian intended to overdub a clarinet or guitar part or something, seems doubtful). Surely "I Wanna Be Around" would have had a lead vocal too; it too lacks its main melody (unlike "The Old Master Painter"). Fire has vocals too but it's still considered an instrumental. I think that Dada would have had more wordless vocals, but no actual lyrics. "Fire" has vocals? Aren't the vocals on the track on the Smile Sessions from "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter"? Yeah but since Fall Breaks sounds very similar to Fire, I'm assuming that those vocals were originally intended for Fire. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: sockittome on August 30, 2016, 03:35:09 PM Apologies if this is an old or stupid question. Most of the BBs' '60s albums had at least one instrumental. The exceptions are LDC, Christmas, Today, Party, and WH -- 5 out of 15, and two to three of those are arguably stopgaps, not "proper" albums. Notably, Both Pet Sounds and Summer Days had had instrumentals. Thus, one might assume that having an instrumental track or tracks to include would have been "expected" by Brian and/or the group for any given album as it was being planned and recorded. Do you believe that Smile '66/'67 was expected to have an instrumental track or tracks in this way? And, if so, which ones? Not a stupid question at all, but a very good one. And subject to quite a bit of debate since no one will ever know exactly what Brian's intentions were in '66-'67. First of all, it could be said that perhaps NO instrumentals were originally intended for Pet Sounds. Pet Sounds (the song) was originally written as Run James Run, a soundtrack instrumental meant to be submitted for a James Bond movie. Had this scenario actually played out, it's very unlikely Brian would have included the song on a Beach Boys record. Let's Go Away for Awhile reportedly had vocals written for it, but admittedly I don't know the full story on that one. So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Brian ever felt like any of the albums absolutely HAD to have an instrumental or two on it. That said, I think it's safe to assume that Mrs. O'Leary's Cow would have been a prominent instrumental, whether or not Brian intended to overdub the wordless vocal part. I still consider it an instrumental either way. We can only speculate that one or more of the other 'Elements' may have been instrumental, but we'll never know for sure, since that suite is incomplete. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: Jeff on August 30, 2016, 07:01:34 PM If you believe the theory that Vegetables was originally a part of The Elements, then perhaps the other sections that were never recorded would have had words to them as well. I'd say that The Elements and Love to Say Dada would have likely been the only instrumentals. I don't believe that I Wanna Be Around/Workshop would have been on the finished album. But "Dada" has the "wa-wa-ho-wa" vocals...and it really sounds bare and unfinished, i.e. lacking a main melody that I have to assume vocals would provide (unless Brian intended to overdub a clarinet or guitar part or something, seems doubtful). Surely "I Wanna Be Around" would have had a lead vocal too; it too lacks its main melody (unlike "The Old Master Painter"). Fire has vocals too but it's still considered an instrumental. I think that Dada would have had more wordless vocals, but no actual lyrics. "Fire" has vocals? Aren't the vocals on the track on the Smile Sessions from "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter"? Yeah but since Fall Breaks sounds very similar to Fire, I'm assuming that those vocals were originally intended for Fire. There's no evidence for that. And a lot of people would argue that H&V Intro or Bells and Chimes are actually closer musically to Fall Breaks than Fire is. Title: Re: How much of Smile '67 would have been (in your judgment) instrumental? Post by: zosobird on September 01, 2016, 04:10:43 PM Isn't "Our Prayer" the exact opposite of an instrumental? Noun 1. instrumental music - music intended to be performed by a musical instrument or group of instruments music - an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner |