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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: The Old Master Painter on December 29, 2015, 10:18:42 AM



Title: "Love to Say Dada" or "All Day" the missing "Air" section? of "The Elements?"
Post by: The Old Master Painter on December 29, 2015, 10:18:42 AM
If we don't know, we could always speculate. I'm willing to speculate and to come out with theories that, for some, go against the very narrative of SMiLE folklore, but are, by definition valid, since SMiLE is a very uncertain chapter in Beach Boys history. Let's get started:

- In 1978(?), Brian Wilson was asked what the missing "Air" section of The Elements was. He replied that they attempted a piano instrumental in 66/67 to be the "Air" piece.

- "All Day" is a piano instrumental.

I also suspect the lyrics to "Whistle In" were the former lyrics to "All Day" since:

"Remember the day (Day = Sun = Fire)

Remember the night (Night = Moon = Water)

All day long (the title of the "instrumental")"

It's lesson is for us to remember and include The Elements in our daily lives, as a part of us, and to be careful when treating our planet.

I don't believe this theory, this is just a brian-puke I had to write down...


Title: Re:
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 29, 2015, 11:32:01 AM
It's a good theory.


Title: Re: \
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 29, 2015, 12:33:03 PM
If we don't know, we could always speculate. I'm willing to speculate and to come out with theories that, for some, go against the very narrative of SMiLE folklore, but are, by definition valid, since SMiLE is a very uncertain chapter in Beach Boys history. Let's get started:

- In 1978(?), Brian Wilson was asked what the missing "Air" section of The Elements was. He replied that they attempted a piano instrumental in 66/67 to be the "Air" piece.

- "All Day" is a piano instrumental.

I also suspect the lyrics to "Whistle In" were the former lyrics to "All Day" since:


Well, a whistle sound is made by Air so maybe there's something to it. Personally, I've used 'Second Day' as my Air element for years now because I think it just fits really well.

My edit of The Elements:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYwBNIPRAQ


Title: Re: \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on December 31, 2015, 09:53:09 AM
If we don't know, we could always speculate. I'm willing to speculate and to come out with theories that, for some, go against the very narrative of SMiLE folklore, but are, by definition valid, since SMiLE is a very uncertain chapter in Beach Boys history. Let's get started:

- In 1978(?), Brian Wilson was asked what the missing "Air" section of The Elements was. He replied that they attempted a piano instrumental in 66/67 to be the "Air" piece.

- "All Day" is a piano instrumental.

I also suspect the lyrics to "Whistle In" were the former lyrics to "All Day" since:

"Remember the day (Day = Sun = Fire)

Remember the night (Night = Moon = Water)

All day long (the title of the "instrumental")"

It's lesson is for us to remember and include The Elements in our daily lives, as a part of us, and to be careful when treating our planet.

I don't believe this theory, this is just a brian-puke I had to write down...

Kinda speculative, but interesting. I think the idea of tying the Sun, Moon, and Earth into the Elements could be a cool way to work the astrology angle in even more. Even tho I dont believe Dada is an element anymore, I always was really interested in the idea of the title Second Day, and that being a possible name for the Water or Air section. Its a subtle reference to the Biblical day when God seperated the seas and skies, just as MOLC is a subtle reference to Fire. So...which is it, then tho? Is Whistle In the air...or Dada/SD? And can anyone say whether the WI lyrics would fit with any version of All Day/Dada we know of?


Title: Re: \
Post by: yonderhillside on January 04, 2016, 11:37:58 AM
Just realized All Day and Love To Say Dada / Second Day share the same piano motif. :wall


Title: Re:
Post by: 37!ws on January 04, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
"Whistle In" also obviously evolved from "Do You Like Worms" -- "Remember the day" => "Wahallaloolay" (or however it's spelled)


Title: Re: \
Post by: thetojo on January 04, 2016, 05:13:29 PM
If we don't know, we could always speculate. I'm willing to speculate and to come out with theories that, for some, go against the very narrative of SMiLE folklore, but are, by definition valid, since SMiLE is a very uncertain chapter in Beach Boys history. Let's get started:

- In 1978(?), Brian Wilson was asked what the missing "Air" section of The Elements was. He replied that they attempted a piano instrumental in 66/67 to be the "Air" piece.

- "All Day" is a piano instrumental.

I also suspect the lyrics to "Whistle In" were the former lyrics to "All Day" since:

"Remember the day (Day = Sun = Fire)

Remember the night (Night = Moon = Water)

All day long (the title of the "instrumental")"

It's lesson is for us to remember and include The Elements in our daily lives, as a part of us, and to be careful when treating our planet.

I don't believe this theory, this is just a brian-puke I had to write down...

You could be onto something there - just quoting and adding a link to a previous post I made - a while back! I didn't get a positive reaction, but logic will turn people around to this view in time.

You hadn't read my post perchance?


I am utterly convinced that the Elements was more complete than people think.

Brian said Air was a piano piece. That's Dada - no question in my mind - especially when you hear the Dada with whistling sound that circulated as "Air Dada". Water is "water chant". Fire is obvious. Earth would have to be Barnyard, given that the Elements Suite was later referred to as the "Barnyard Suite".

I'm not saying it's not guesswork to some extent, but I believe that the water lyrics came to Dada after the abandonment  of SMiLE.

As to the correct order "Fire" is listed as part one. If you take the order which old philosophy tells us the elements arise, I think it would be fire then air, then water, then earth.


Another thing, which I thought I'd posted, but may not have - I believe Van Dyke has also said that SMiLE as conceived was to have one track where different titles were linked, that is, no other tracks other than the Elements would be linked to one another [in what we might call these days a gapless album], just The Elements, so if that's true the Barnyard Suite must be The Elements, if there was any doubt about that point.


Title: Re: \
Post by: The_Holy_Bee on January 04, 2016, 08:16:50 PM
Quote
Another thing, which I thought I'd posted, but may not have - I believe Van Dyke has also said that SMiLE as conceived was to have one track where different titles were linked, that is, no other tracks other than the Elements would be linked to one another [in what we might call these days a gapless album], just The Elements, so if that's true the Barnyard Suite must be The Elements, if there was any doubt about that point.

I can see how you got there, but the above is not quite accurate. As reported some years ago by AGD, VDP told him the SMiLE tracks were intended to be banded (ie. distinct songs, though this doesn't necessarily mean a full two seconds separating them) with one exception - 'The Elements', which was to have cross-faded sections within the track. This is more or less what you say above, but the connection to the 'Barnyard Suite' - which is referenced just the once, in the Priess book: "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - seems tenuous.

First of all, VDP (through AGD - ain't acronyms wonderful?) refers particularly to cross-fades. This hardly precludes a 'Barnyard Suite' being a collection of short sections 'combined together' in different ways - for instance, a hard edit from the end of the IIGS 'tape explosion' into another section (like that in the Feb '67 Heroes mix between 'Three score and five' and the 'False Barnyard' coda). Or a quick instrumental or vocal transition, as many early '67 Heroes fragments seem to be (ie. 'Mission Pak'). These are all transitions between instrumental sections, but do not constitute the cross-fading explicitly described by Parks.

Secondly, most Smile tracks consist of separate, modular instrumental recordings, mixed, assembled into a sequence, and then overdubbed with vocals and various sound effects/treatments. So, to a certain extent, almost every song we have a period assembly of is essentially a collection of 'linked tracks', employing a variety of different transitioning devices.

So I'd hesitate before propagating (especially for any newcomers reading these boards) the idea that 'Elements = Barnyard Suite' - as "if there was any doubt about that point". Because, at least on the basis of the argument given in your post above, there very definitely is.  :)



Title: Re: \
Post by: thetojo on January 04, 2016, 08:47:49 PM
Thanks for the criticism - I probably went a bit too far - "over-reached".

Thanks also for the detail in relation to both the AGD/VDP thing and also the quote from the Priess book.

Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not????

My logic is this:
- you've got someone saying that there is only one track of the twelve that involves cross-fading from one piece to another.;
- none of the other 11 can then cross-fade (although as you say they can be modular, which almost all of Smile was - even Surf's Up);
- we know multiple titles were used by Brian for the SMiLE tracks, sometimes interchangeably - eg. "Cabinessence" "Who Ran The Iron-Horse" "Grand Coulee Dam"
- if you have a piece which is described as being a four-parter - this is something that obviously stands out about the song - it is reasonable, but not certain, that the two descriptions are of the same thing, but it has another name;
- then both cannot form part of the same album, unless they are one and the same track - the VDP quote excludes that possibility - not absolutely, but with a reasonable degree of likelihood.

The Barnyard Suite was referenced in an article from around 1972 (can't remember the exact details) - when the Beach Boys were scheduled to deliver the tapes to Warners. The article is reproduced in Look Listen Vibrate SMiLE from memory. There may or may not be a separate reference to "Elements", I'll have to check that when I get the book in front of me.


Title: Re: \
Post by: The_Holy_Bee on January 04, 2016, 09:29:54 PM
Hi thetojo - hope I didn't come across as overly critical. I guess my fundamental point is though what you're saying could mean 'The Elements' and 'The Barnyard Suite' are the same thing, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are - not least because we have so little concrete information about either.

Quote
Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not?

Well, yeah, but from what we know about the recording process of 'Cabin Essence' (via Vosse's 'Fusion' article), for instance, starting out as at least two distinct song ideas and recorded as three  separate instrumental parts, you could almost say the same thing about CE, except that it's three sections instead of four. Even the single release of Heroes used salvaged and re-recorded sections from at least two original song sources. Not to say the number of parts isn't relevant, or that I don't see your point, just that the way in which SMiLE was recorded means the distinction between a 'song' as a totality and sequenced individual pieces can become a bit murky where we don't have any period assemblies.

Quote
My logic is this:
- if you've got someone saying that there is only one track of the twelve that involves cross-fading from one piece to another.;
- all of the other 11 mustn't cross fade (although as you say they can be modular, which almost all of Smile was - even Surf's Up);
- if you have a piece which is described as being a four-parter - this is something that obviously stands out about the song - it is reasonable, but not certain, that like the two descriptions are of the same thing, but it has another name;
- then both cannot form part of the same album, unless they are one and the same track - the VDP quote excludes that possibility - not absolutely, but with a reasonable degree of likelihood.

To go through these points 'verse by verse':
- Yep, but as I said above you'd need to prove (or at least give some basis for) that 'Barnyard Suite' was intended to feature cross-fades before this becomes relevant. The fact that 'Elements' was to be the only track with cross-fading does not ipso facto mean any other track with multiple sections would have to be cross-faded, as I tried to explain above.
- See above.
- Possible, but see my above comment about CE etc.
- And again, see my points this and the last post.

In short, I can see your process of reasoning here, but I'd argue that your premise is fundamentally flawed - ie. to say that you can't have two tracks of four parts with cross-faded sections on the  album is - in light of VDP's comments - correct, but for the BY=TE thesis to hold water you'd need to demonstrate that 'Barnyard Suite' was indeed going to have cross-faded sections - and not simply another, stand-alone track consisting of several distinct recorded sections linked through various other means. As a number of SMiLE tracks indeed are.

With the information we have, the number of parts intended for either could equally be simply coincidence or - in more high falutin' terms - a false equivalency. Unless, of course, there's info/interviews I'm not aware of.

Quote
The Barnyard Suite was referenced in an article from around 1972 (can't remember the exact details) - when the Beach Boys were scheduled to deliver the tapes to Warners. The article is reproduced in Look Listen Vibrate SMiLE from memory.

Ah. In which case, I stand corrected. 'The Child is Father to the Band' (Nolan), maybe?



Title: Re: \
Post by: soniclovenoize on January 05, 2016, 11:31:27 AM
Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not????
It is noteworthy that some here believe that Brian misspoke, that the Barnyard Suite he was referencing was in fact The Elements and he was mistaken or remembered incorrectly. 

I am not of that group who believe that, but i thought it's import to state that many people do. 


Title: Re: \
Post by: zosobird on January 05, 2016, 12:31:09 PM
Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not????
It is noteworthy that some here believe that Brian misspoke, that the Barnyard Suite he was referencing was in fact The Elements and he was mistaken or remembered incorrectly. 

I am not of that group who believe that, but i thought it's import to state that many people do. 

I just want to add that the evidence for Barnyard Suite = Elements Suite is minimal at best. There is much greater evidence the Barnyard Suite = IIGS and i find it odd that the Barnyard/Elements connection is even considered a possibility. That said, no need to justify a "roll your own" mix, just be done with it.


Title: Re: \
Post by: thetojo on January 05, 2016, 02:43:01 PM
Loving the input -

Found the reference I was thinking of [page 128 in LLVS revised edition] - I note that it mentions Barnyard, and also separately Mrs O'Leary's Cow and I Love To Say Dada (incorporating Cool Cool Water).

FWIW getting back to the topic, IMO there's a pretty good case for saying I Love To Say Dada may have been intended as "Air", particularly with reference to "part 2 second day" TSS disc 4 track 13.

PS. I always thought (from the 90s I mean) IIGS was probably I Wanna Be Around followed by the Workshop stuff. I just couldn't get past the use of the word AROUND as a play on the shape round - but there you go - then in 2004 for some reason the two were connected.


Title: Re: \
Post by: soniclovenoize on January 05, 2016, 02:55:57 PM
FWIW getting back to the topic, IMO there's a pretty good case for saying I Love To Say Dada may have been intended as "Air", particularly with reference to "part 2 second day" TSS disc 4 track 13.

What do you mean?


Title: Re: \
Post by: thetojo on January 05, 2016, 03:52:45 PM
FWIW getting back to the topic, IMO there's a pretty good case for saying I Love To Say Dada may have been intended as "Air", particularly with reference to "part 2 second day" TSS disc 4 track 13.

What do you mean?

The added whistling adds an airyness!


Title: Re: \
Post by: soniclovenoize on January 05, 2016, 05:00:31 PM
FWIW getting back to the topic, IMO there's a pretty good case for saying I Love To Say Dada may have been intended as "Air", particularly with reference to "part 2 second day" TSS disc 4 track 13.

What do you mean?

The added whistling adds an airyness!

It's also vaguely watery as well...   ;)


Title: Re: \
Post by: The Old Master Painter on January 05, 2016, 05:39:24 PM
Just a look back at what happened in December 1966-May 1967:

I guess in pre-December 1966, there was JUST The Elements, since I'm In Great Shape and Barnyard where originally part of the "original" Heroes and Villains (not the crazy "Pt. 2" vocal chants that came after December 1966). The handwritten track list proves this: I'm In Great Shape is listed as a separate track from Heroes, and, although unrelated but interesting to note, Vega-Tables is taken apart from The Elements for a supposed single release(?), which contradicts the Feank Holmes' notation that Vega-Tables is part of The Elements, which I supposed was handed in before the December deadline.

 Knowing this, a pre-December 1966 SMiLE, in theory, should have been much easier to complete as a 12 tracked album, but that wasn't possible after December, because Brian felt the pressure (obviously) to get Heroes out as a single, and then he eventually went on to complete the fable Pt. 1 and 2, which he assembled (supposedly) master tapes for supposedly around mid-February. SMiLE, in my opinion, was still in good shape up till this point in time.

 I think that March-April was truly the nail in the coffin for SMiLE, since even though Brian had said in an interview he completed a version of Heroes in February, he was still recording more parts to that song, and then Brian started recording Vega-Tables to salvage fresh hope for a single, completely making those few months spent for Heroes usless. It was supposedly around then Van Dyke left, which was truly responsible for 90% of the project's misguided incompletion. Things didn't go any better when Paul McCartney visited Brian around the Vega-Tables sessions and played some Sgt. Pepper songs for him. That alone killed the SMiLE, and Brian's hopes for competing against The Beatles.

In May 2nd (?), it was announced by Derek Taylor SMiLE was no more.

It is still a wonder to me why Brian was recording "Love to Say Dada" around then. Any opinions? Where all those post-February recordings for Heroes where actually dedicated to The Elements? Think about it:

Chimes/Whistle Intro= Opening to Mrs. O' Leary's Fire

All Day = Love to Say Dada = Air = Water?

Sleep a Lot = Vega-Tables

An *if* Brian was recording LSD after the May 2nd announcement for an Elements suite, could this explain why Brian went to record the famous "Water Chant" and the "Surf's Up" Fall 1967 demo. Supposedly Capitol did want a 10-track SMiLE album out, without Heroes or Veggies. Could this be why Brian was *still* trying to complete SMiLE in fall 1967?


Title: Re: \
Post by: thetojo on January 05, 2016, 07:10:23 PM
You've reminded me of the Veggies demo master number / IIGS connection (which I don't think I imagined) - - which just confuses things even more!


Title: Re: \
Post by: soniclovenoize on January 05, 2016, 08:23:23 PM
It is still a wonder to me why Brian was recording "Love to Say Dada" around then. Any opinions? Where all those post-February recordings for Heroes where actually dedicated to The Elements? Think about it:

Chimes/Whistle Intro= Opening to Mrs. O' Leary's Fire

All Day = Love to Say Dada = Air = Water?

Sleep a Lot = Vega-Tables
An interesting observation.  But if that was really the case, why not slate them as The Elements (as Mrs O'Leary's Cow was)?  Why slate Chimes as Heroes and Villains intro?  Why slate All Day as Love to Say Dada?  Or it's just coincidence that the last remaining songs were (possibly) associated with The Elements (possibly because The Elements as a concept died in December and these were just segments gutted from it (Chimes, at the very least).  

I'm still not buying All Day = Air.  
When it was called "All Day", it was simply a segment of H&V that would have featured spoken word portions in those breaks (which I believe was the only manifestation of the "comedy" aspect of SMiLE, imo, which was even further reduced to "You're Under Arrest!").  Then it eventually became it's own entity in March and was about a baby (hence the term "dada").  Then by June it had started to become CooL Cool Water...  So was All Day an unfinished piano piece?  not really, it was finished as Cool Cool Water!  If anything, All Day is a contender for the Water Element since it eventually became a song about water, but I will be the first to admit that is wishful thinking and there's no direct evidence of it.

Also I think the "all day" lyric in Whistle In is just coincidence, and a stretch at best.  Sorry.

What I think is really interesting is a theory guitarfool and I mentioned (independently, I swear!) in the other thread... what if the "unfinished piano piece" was the fade to Wind Chimes?  That version was never finished and scrapped for a re-record for Smiley Smile, and Vosse really built that segment up as a great unrealized piece.  Again, no direct evidence, but an interesting thought.  

Also an interesting thought I believe Mujan mentioned in the same thread, that a number of vocal and chant pieces were recorded during the "Psychedelic Sounds" sessions that could reflect an element (Veggie chant for Earth, Water chant for Water, breathing for Air).  What if The Elements was, at one point, entirely a spoken word suite?  

One final 'What If'...  We learned that Vegetables was implicitly identified as the Earth section, right?  The April Assembly tape is lacking the Fade... What if the Vege-Tables Fade was meant for The Elements but the rest was meant for the song Vege-Tables?  


Title: Re: \
Post by: The Old Master Painter on January 06, 2016, 04:59:13 AM
It is still a wonder to me why Brian was recording "Love to Say Dada" around then. Any opinions? Where all those post-February recordings for Heroes where actually dedicated to The Elements? Think about it:

Chimes/Whistle Intro= Opening to Mrs. O' Leary's Fire

All Day = Love to Say Dada = Air = Water?

Sleep a Lot = Vega-Tables
An interesting observation.  But if that was really the case, why not slate them as The Elements (as Mrs O'Leary's Cow was)?  Why slate Chimes as Heroes and Villains intro?  Why slate All Day as Love to Say Dada?  Or it's just coincidence that the last remaining songs were (possibly) associated with The Elements (possibly because The Elements as a concept died in December and these were just segments gutted from it (Chimes, at the very least).  

I'm still not buying All Day = Air.  
When it was called "All Day", it was simply a segment of H&V that would have featured spoken word portions in those breaks (which I believe was the only manifestation of the "comedy" aspect of SMiLE, imo, which was even further reduced to "You're Under Arrest!").  Then it eventually became it's own entity in March and was about a baby (hence the term "dada").  Then by June it had started to become CooL Cool Water...  So was All Day an unfinished piano piece?  not really, it was finished as Cool Cool Water!  If anything, All Day is a contender for the Water Element since it eventually became a song about water, but I will be the first to admit that is wishful thinking and there's no direct evidence of it.

Also I think the "all day" lyric in Whistle In is just coincidence, and a stretch at best.  Sorry.

What I think is really interesting is a theory guitarfool and I mentioned (independently, I swear!) in the other thread... what if the "unfinished piano piece" was the fade to Wind Chimes?  That version was never finished and scrapped for a re-record for Smiley Smile, and Vosse really built that segment up as a great unrealized piece.  Again, no direct evidence, but an interesting thought.  

Also an interesting thought I believe Mujan mentioned in the same thread, that a number of vocal and chant pieces were recorded during the "Psychedelic Sounds" sessions that could reflect an element (Veggie chant for Earth, Water chant for Water, breathing for Air).  What if The Elements was, at one point, entirely a spoken word suite?  

One final 'What If'...  We learned that Vegetables was implicitly identified as the Earth section, right?  The April Assembly tape is lacking the Fade... What if the Vege-Tables Fade was meant for The Elements but the rest was meant for the song Vege-Tables?  

Early on, when creating SMiLE mix, this used to be my Elements:

Vega-Tables Fade: Earth

Wind Chimes Piano Solo: Air

Mrs. O' Leary's Fire: Fire

Love to Say Dada: Water.

To me, it just didn't sound right, and more of an edit of left out material from Veggies and Chimes. Fire and LSD were the only ones that made sense to be together.

For my new mix, however, I used the Psycodelic Sounds boot to help re-creating a comedical Elements suite:

Fire is Pt. 1 of the Elements Suite, as intended in 1966

Next is Water Chant with 1966 water sounds found of Bob Gordon's Real Trip

And air starts from a segment of the "Torture" skit, and then starts of with bits of hte Smog Rant, and in the background is the breathing skit and whispering wind sounds.

Earth is cornucopia version of Veggies with a but of the comedy arguments.


Title: Re: \
Post by: jiggy22 on January 07, 2016, 05:45:18 AM
It is still a wonder to me why Brian was recording "Love to Say Dada" around then. Any opinions? Where all those post-February recordings for Heroes where actually dedicated to The Elements?

By May of 67, Brian wanted absolutely nothing to do with SMiLE. It was practically dead to him, aside from the occasional meddling around with the already recorded pieces in the studio, before he got sick of hearing the same fragments over and over again. Not to mention the new album by the Beatles was weeks away from release. Maybe the recording of LTSD was a way for Brian to get his mind off of SMiLE? Or maybe he was already moving on to ideas for Smiley Smile? The first version of Cool Cool Water was recorded in early-June, not even a month after Dada was recorded, and bears an almost identical melody to LTSD. I personally think of the song as much for of a Smiley Smile song than a SMiLE song. I have my own custom mix of Cool Cool Water on Smiley Smile, it kinda loosely follows this format:

1). Cool Cool Water (1st attempt, June 67)
2). Water Chant (Featuring wave crashing noises from the Sunflower version)
3). Love to Say Dada (2 version with bird-like noises)
4). Final wave crash from Sunflower version. A brief moment of silence before the first piano demo of CCW fades in and quickly fades out.

I think it sounds a lot better on Smiley Smile than as In Blue Hawaii or whatever connection it has as a Smile song. I can post my version on Youtube or whatever if anyone's interested in hearing it!


Title: Re: \
Post by: Manfred on January 07, 2016, 07:11:02 AM
Somebody help me please - where is "All day" to find ? I´m sure I got it, but I don´t remember where.


Title: Re: \
Post by: zosobird on January 07, 2016, 07:28:00 AM
Somebody help me please - where is "All day" to find ? I´m sure I got it, but I don´t remember where.

Smile Sessions box set, disc 2, track 17:
Heroes And Villains: All Day   2:20


Title: Re: \
Post by: Manfred on January 07, 2016, 08:34:23 AM
Fine, thanks.


Title: Re: \
Post by: yonderhillside on January 07, 2016, 11:56:34 AM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.


Title: Re: \
Post by: Phoenix on January 08, 2016, 09:42:52 PM
Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not????

...the 'Barnyard Suite' - which is referenced just the once, in the Priess book: "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one."

The Barnyard Suite (The Old Master Painter)* IS four sections, just as it said in the Preiss book.
1 "Barnyard"
2 "The Old Master Painter"
3 "You Were My Sunshine"
4 "the 'Barnshine Fade'"


How is this confusing??  :shrug




* Note the scratched out parenthesis on the hand written list.



Title: Re: \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 08, 2016, 10:06:20 PM
Seriously though, if you mentioned SMiLE then said to someone about a track "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one." - that's screaming out as a description of what we do know about the Elements is it not????

...the 'Barnyard Suite' - which is referenced just the once, in the Priess book: "[It] was going to be four songs—in four short pieces—combined together, but we never finished that one."

The Barnyard Suite (The Old Master Painter)* IS four sections, just as it said in the Preiss book.
1 "Barnyard"
2 "The Old Master Painter"
3 "You Were My Sunshine"
4 "the 'Barnshine Fade'"


How is this confusing??  :shrug




* Note the scratched out parenthesis on the hand written list.



Omp is a song about God. You were my sunshine sung in the past tense right after singing about God creates a really profound yet subtle statement of losing faith in God entirely or at least in traditional religious beliefs/standards. Neither song was written by Brian and together, they're a really amazing experiment showing how his modular approach could also be used to meld two unrelated old songs together into something completely new and with a meaning unique to him. Barnshine is a fade. It's not necessary but whatever.

The problem I have with this "Barnyard suite" is it takes something so understated and beautiful...And shoehorns in Barnyard which has nothing to do with it and even dilutes the meaning by being a part of it. Even ignoring the loss of faith idea, what does a barnyard have to do with God or Love? It's just a very forced connection, which is a problem I have with this as well as IIGS/IWBA/Workshop. I think at the end of the day, they're all just pieces (those being GS/BY/IWBA/Workshop) that were recorded for whatever but don't really fit anywhere. If all four were together as IIGS the track, maybe that's possible but it'd definitely be the worst track on the album by far.


Title: Re: \
Post by: Phoenix on January 08, 2016, 11:10:52 PM
Omp is a song about God. You were my sunshine sung in the past tense right after singing about God creates a really profound yet subtle statement of losing faith in God entirely or at least in traditional religious beliefs/standards. Neither song was written by Brian and together, they're a really amazing experiment showing how his modular approach could also be used to meld to unrelated old songs together into something completely new and with a meaning unique to him. Barnshine is a fade. It's not necessary but whatever.

The problem I have with this "Barnyard suite" is it takes something so understated and beautiful...And shoehorns in Barnyard which has nothing to do with it and even dilutes the meaning by being a part of it. Even ignoring the loss of faith idea, what does a barnyard have to do with God or Love? It's just a very forced connection, which is a problem I have with this as well as IIGS/IWBA/Workshop. I think at the end of the day, they're all just pieces (those being GS/BY/IWBA/Workshop) that were recorded for whatever but don't really fit anywhere. If all four were together as IIGS the track, maybe that's possible but it'd definitely be the worst track on the album by far.

You honestly don't see it possibly that a farmer character could be the one the one singing TOMP? The song is more about What the painter painted than Who the painter was, especially in the truncated form Brian used.  It's not as likely some city boy would be singing about the violets, daffodils, twilight haze, rainbows, and summer skies. Now with that in mind, the next two sections are easily just as home on the farm (as opposed to the range :wink). Sunshine, loneliness, etc.

We know "Barnyard" (the section) was part of HV. As discussed, he decides to make the single more commercial and excises it, along with IIGS.  Somewhere along the way he decides to make them into their own separate tracks (as evidenced on the tracklist).  Knowing they're too short to be songs by themselves, he packages them up with covers, and jokes. For whatever reason, he figures IIGS works as a title for that specific collection, maybe because the guy starts the song in great shape and the girl WILL be in great shape by the time its over. Hee refers to the other batch as "the Barnyard suite" but possibly like you, he doesn't think that's the best name for those four bits, and goes with "TOMP" (with or without parenthesis).


Title: Re: \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 08, 2016, 11:23:17 PM
Omp is a song about God. You were my sunshine sung in the past tense right after singing about God creates a really profound yet subtle statement of losing faith in God entirely or at least in traditional religious beliefs/standards. Neither song was written by Brian and together, they're a really amazing experiment showing how his modular approach could also be used to meld to unrelated old songs together into something completely new and with a meaning unique to him. Barnshine is a fade. It's not necessary but whatever.

The problem I have with this "Barnyard suite" is it takes something so understated and beautiful...And shoehorns in Barnyard which has nothing to do with it and even dilutes the meaning by being a part of it. Even ignoring the loss of faith idea, what does a barnyard have to do with God or Love? It's just a very forced connection, which is a problem I have with this as well as IIGS/IWBA/Workshop. I think at the end of the day, they're all just pieces (those being GS/BY/IWBA/Workshop) that were recorded for whatever but don't really fit anywhere. If all four were together as IIGS the track, maybe that's possible but it'd definitely be the worst track on the album by far.

You honestly don't see it possibly that a farmer character could be the one the one singing TOMP? The song is more about What the painter painted than Who the painter was, especially in the truncated form Brian used.  It's not as likely some city boy would be singing about the violets, daffodils, twilight haze, rainbows, and summer skies. Now with that in mind, the next two sections are easily just as home on the farm (as opposed to the range :wink). Sunshine, loneliness, etc.

We know "Barnyard" (the section) was part of HV. As discussed, he decides to make the single more commercial and excises it, along with IIGS.  Somewhere along the way he decides to make them into their own separate tracks (as evidenced on the tracklist).  Knowing they're too short to be songs by themselves, he packages them up with covers, and jokes. For whatever reason, he figures IIGS works as a title for that specific collection, maybe because the guy starts the song in great shape and the girl WILL be in great shape by the time its over. Hee refers to the other batch as "the Barnyard suite" but possibly like you, he doesn't think that's the best name for those four bits, and goes with "TOMP" (with or without parenthesis).

I don't know. I think it's far more likely OMP was it's own thing and any "barnyard suite" would just be IIGS. Gs/Iwba/WS/Barnyard. Something like that. A collection of outtakes into a...semi related...collection. But I still think forcing Barnyard before OMP dilutes the entire purpose and power of that track and I don't see enough evidence to justify doing so.


Title: Re: \
Post by: zosobird on January 09, 2016, 01:46:36 AM
Omp is a song about God. You were my sunshine sung in the past tense right after singing about God creates a really profound yet subtle statement of losing faith in God entirely or at least in traditional religious beliefs/standards. Neither song was written by Brian and together, they're a really amazing experiment showing how his modular approach could also be used to meld to unrelated old songs together into something completely new and with a meaning unique to him. Barnshine is a fade. It's not necessary but whatever.

The problem I have with this "Barnyard suite" is it takes something so understated and beautiful...And shoehorns in Barnyard which has nothing to do with it and even dilutes the meaning by being a part of it. Even ignoring the loss of faith idea, what does a barnyard have to do with God or Love? It's just a very forced connection, which is a problem I have with this as well as IIGS/IWBA/Workshop. I think at the end of the day, they're all just pieces (those being GS/BY/IWBA/Workshop) that were recorded for whatever but don't really fit anywhere. If all four were together as IIGS the track, maybe that's possible but it'd definitely be the worst track on the album by far.

You honestly don't see it possibly that a farmer character could be the one the one singing TOMP? The song is more about What the painter painted than Who the painter was, especially in the truncated form Brian used.  It's not as likely some city boy would be singing about the violets, daffodils, twilight haze, rainbows, and summer skies. Now with that in mind, the next two sections are easily just as home on the farm (as opposed to the range :wink). Sunshine, loneliness, etc.

We know "Barnyard" (the section) was part of HV. As discussed, he decides to make the single more commercial and excises it, along with IIGS.  Somewhere along the way he decides to make them into their own separate tracks (as evidenced on the tracklist).  Knowing they're too short to be songs by themselves, he packages them up with covers, and jokes. For whatever reason, he figures IIGS works as a title for that specific collection, maybe because the guy starts the song in great shape and the girl WILL be in great shape by the time its over. Hee refers to the other batch as "the Barnyard suite" but possibly like you, he doesn't think that's the best name for those four bits, and goes with "TOMP" (with or without parenthesis).

I don't know. I think it's far more likely OMP was it's own thing and any "barnyard suite" would just be IIGS. Gs/Iwba/WS/Barnyard. Something like that. A collection of outtakes into a...semi related...collection. But I still think forcing Barnyard before OMP dilutes the entire purpose and power of that track and I don't see enough evidence to justify doing so.

Mujan, a barnyard/OMP connection is completely reasonable. lol, what do you mean theres not enough evidence??

VOSSE "One night we were over at his house and he started playing You Are My Sunshine slowly, almost like an R&B thing, just slowing down the tempo, really mournful. And we were all a little high, I guess, and he started singing "you were my sunshine": he put the song in the past tense, and he was trying to find his bass rhythm for it, and in doing that he found this weird little riff that just sort of developed and it hit him, man, right then, that he wanted a barnyard, he wanted Old MacDonald's famr, he wanted all that stuff. So he immediately got Van Dyke over and they did a chart for "You Were My Sunshine". It's so hard to remember exactly what he wound up doing, because he changed things so much, but he wound up writing a clarinet part for it which is impossible to describe: a whole different sound that he found in the middle of all this, and it developed into an instrumental thing with barnyard sounds, people sawing (he had people in the studio sawing on wood) and Van Dyke being a duck - and it was marvelous. It made you smile and at the same time touched you."

also fwiw 2004 smile goes barnyard/omp


Title: Re: \
Post by: Alex on January 09, 2016, 03:35:56 AM
I pretty much thought the consensus was Vega-tables, Wind Chimes, Mrs. O'Leary, I Wanna Be Around, Love to Say Da Da.


Title: Re: \
Post by: Phoenix on January 09, 2016, 06:50:59 AM
Omp is a song about God. You were my sunshine sung in the past tense right after singing about God creates a really profound yet subtle statement of losing faith in God entirely or at least in traditional religious beliefs/standards. Neither song was written by Brian and together, they're a really amazing experiment showing how his modular approach could also be used to meld to unrelated old songs together into something completely new and with a meaning unique to him. Barnshine is a fade. It's not necessary but whatever.

The problem I have with this "Barnyard suite" is it takes something so understated and beautiful...And shoehorns in Barnyard which has nothing to do with it and even dilutes the meaning by being a part of it. Even ignoring the loss of faith idea, what does a barnyard have to do with God or Love? It's just a very forced connection, which is a problem I have with this as well as IIGS/IWBA/Workshop. I think at the end of the day, they're all just pieces (those being GS/BY/IWBA/Workshop) that were recorded for whatever but don't really fit anywhere. If all four were together as IIGS the track, maybe that's possible but it'd definitely be the worst track on the album by far.

You honestly don't see it possibly that a farmer character could be the one the one singing TOMP? The song is more about What the painter painted than Who the painter was, especially in the truncated form Brian used.  It's not as likely some city boy would be singing about the violets, daffodils, twilight haze, rainbows, and summer skies. Now with that in mind, the next two sections are easily just as home on the farm (as opposed to the range :wink). Sunshine, loneliness, etc.

We know "Barnyard" (the section) was part of HV. As discussed, he decides to make the single more commercial and excises it, along with IIGS.  Somewhere along the way he decides to make them into their own separate tracks (as evidenced on the tracklist).  Knowing they're too short to be songs by themselves, he packages them up with covers, and jokes. For whatever reason, he figures IIGS works as a title for that specific collection, maybe because the guy starts the song in great shape and the girl WILL be in great shape by the time its over. Hee refers to the other batch as "the Barnyard suite" but possibly like you, he doesn't think that's the best name for those four bits, and goes with "TOMP" (with or without parenthesis).

I don't know. I think it's far more likely OMP was it's own thing and any "barnyard suite" would just be IIGS. Gs/Iwba/WS/Barnyard. Something like that. A collection of outtakes into a...semi related...collection. But I still think forcing Barnyard before OMP dilutes the entire purpose and power of that track and I don't see enough evidence to justify doing so.

Mujan, a barnyard/OMP connection is completely reasonable. lol, what do you mean theres not enough evidence??

VOSSE "One night we were over at his house and he started playing You Are My Sunshine slowly, almost like an R&B thing, just slowing down the tempo, really mournful. And we were all a little high, I guess, and he started singing "you were my sunshine": he put the song in the past tense, and he was trying to find his bass rhythm for it, and in doing that he found this weird little riff that just sort of developed and it hit him, man, right then, that he wanted a barnyard, he wanted Old MacDonald's famr, he wanted all that stuff. So he immediately got Van Dyke over and they did a chart for "You Were My Sunshine". It's so hard to remember exactly what he wound up doing, because he changed things so much, but he wound up writing a clarinet part for it which is impossible to describe: a whole different sound that he found in the middle of all this, and it developed into an instrumental thing with barnyard sounds, people sawing (he had people in the studio sawing on wood) and Van Dyke being a duck - and it was marvelous. It made you smile and at the same time touched you."

also fwiw 2004 smile goes barnyard/omp



 :bow


Title: Re: \
Post by: zosobird on January 09, 2016, 08:50:58 AM
i dont see how anyone could consider barnyard as an outtake! when brian has a chance to showcase smile to outsiders at least two times, he highlights the barnyard bit (humble harv and over the phone to another reporter). he seemed enthusiastic about that than almost anything else.. it has smile written all over it

back to the OP topic...

mujan, when asked about air, brian said there was a cut. a recorded piece of music! in fact a piano instrumental he did not finish. vosse's account highly suggests that this could very well have been the tag to wind chimes. how are you so absolutely sure the only thing he recorded for the elements was fire?

i believe wholeheartedly the ps chants were the elements in development. he wanted to lay ideas down (chants, falling into instruments, etc). he recorded them.  i agree the underwater chant was an embryonic approach to what eventually became the water chant. i believe though thats all he milked out of those chants. he tried the chants with the remaining elements (sans fire), felt water would work best as a chant, fire as what we know, tried the WC tag as wind, and VT as earth, but spun off WC and VT into their own songs instead (i agree they dont quite sound right in an elements track). But i believe he did in fact try out those ideas.. and trying out those ideas meant recording them. he never finished it, but i feel it is erroneous to say the only recorded attempt at the elements was fire


Title: Re: \
Post by: zosobird on January 09, 2016, 08:56:45 AM
double post


Title: Re: \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 09, 2016, 09:20:44 AM
i dont see how anyone could consider barnyard as an outtake! when brian has a chance to showcase smile to outsiders at least two times, he highlights the barnyard bit (humble harv and over the phone to another reporter). he seemed enthusiastic about that than almost anything else.. it has smile written all over it

back to the OP topic...

mujan, when asked about air, brian said there was a cut. a recorded piece of music! in fact a piano instrumental he did not finish. vosse's account highly suggests that this could very well have been the tag to wind chimes. how are you so absolutely sure the only thing he recorded for the elements was fire?

im believe wholeheartedly the ps chants were the elements in development. he wanted to lay ideas down (chants, falling into instruments, etc). he recorded them.  i agree the underwater chant was an embryonic approach to what eventually became the water chant. i believe though thats all he milked out of those chants. he tried the chants with the remaining elements (sans fire), felt water would work best as a chant, fire as what we know, tried the WC tag as wind, and VT as earth, but spun off WC and VT into their own songs instead (i agree they dont quite sound right in an elements track). But i believe he did in fact try out those ideas.. and trying out those ideas meant recording them. he never finished it, but i feel it is erroneous to say the only recorded attempt at the elements was fire

This probably isn't the best thread to go back into that. In any case, I've stated my conclusion and am done with it. I stated my conclusion and how I arrived at that as fully and clearly as possible so that I would not have to be dragged into this same annoying debate a million more times. If you havent read it, do so. If you have, thats where I stand and you bringing up the same irritating Vosse quotes--which Ive stated plain as day why I dont think outweigh the other, more compelling evidence--is NOT going to change my mind. So Id like to be able to discuss other things, like this with Barnyard/OMP, without you bringing that up yet again and diverting the topic. Thank you.

As for Barnyard. Ok...so "one night" presumably very early in the sessions Brian did it that way. Aren't you the very same person who was going on and on about "SMiLE was dynamic!" and aren't you repeating the same idea above? So why is it that magic excuse works only when you want it to and never at any other time? Isn't it just as conceivable Brian strung those pieces together on a whim one night but the idea changed drastically by November~December? I think so. Doesnt Vosse specifically say in that passage he doesnt even remember how it went? And that Sunshine came before Barnyard? I dont see OMP mentioned there either. So what, you wanna take what Brian had the wrecking crew perform in the studio (at a later date, when his mind was more made up) and ruin it by putting Sunshine first, then Barnyard, then...whatever...even tho it ruins the song's meaning, conflicts with what was ACTUALLY RECORDED (again, the physical evidence) just because its something Vosse recalls hearing at some unspecified time during the chaotic sessions? Like...do you seriously not realize how misguided and crazy that is?

Again, aesthetics opinion here, but I think Barnyard before OMP ruins the song. It's an unnecessary addition that takes away from the meaningful pairing of just those two old standards to create a unique new idea. What does a Brian and VDP original have to do with any of that? Nothing. It adds nothing to the song and youre only putting it there because of a vague recollection from one man who wasnt Brian. And doesn't Barnyard fade if I recall (could be wrong, haven't used it on a mix in years)?

Anyway, what's so inconceivable about it being part of IIGS?  They were both outtakes--yes, outtakes--from H&Vs. So right there, you've got a connection. The narrative forming in IIGS makes a lot more sense with that in Barnyard than barnyard does with OMP. And since Barnyard fades, it's a decent cap to either a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/fade construction of IIGS or a 4 part medley with, perhaps, IWBA and Workshop. Just seems to make sense to me, to hell with one single passage in a single article youre interpreting to suit your own needs.

I don't understand arguing against what sounds better (yes I know, it's subjective) and makes more thematic sense (again, OMP is stronger w/o Barnyard, IIGS is stronger with it) just because Vosse happened to mention Brian did it some other way ONE TIME AT AN UNKNOWN BUT PRESUMABLY EARLY POINT IN THE SESSIONS. Especially when we all know--you especially--how much things changed over time. Look, I enjoyed reading Vosse/Anderle too. They're great sources in terms of giving the basic overview of what happened, what it was like to be around Brian, the goals for the album. But I think using them as sources for sequencing or track structures is just really misguided. Especially when it's just speculation based on vague passages (Vosse mentioned WC right after talking about the Elements so WC must be an element!!) or outdated memories like this one. I mean, if he mentioned Brian playing the fade to CE right after playing Surfs Up one night, or started talking about H&V right after the elements, would you be advocating everyone make their SMiLE that way too--and hounding them incessantly about it from thread to thread to boot?

Fact is, we'll never know. Brian didn't even know in cases like this--not 100%. And before someone jumps down my throat, yeah I do believe the album had a clear direction, was a fully conceptualized entity and he knew what tracks would be on it. But what made up those tracks exactly is more unclear. Especially Elements and IIGS, which are by far the most mysterious tracks there are. So rather than follow some article exactly to the tee (something I don't think either Vosse or Anderle would recommend or intended) I say just do what sounds right in the realm of plausibility--unless you're not going for accuracy in which case run wild.

I'm not sure what playing the song on Humble Harv proves. It was still undeniably an OUTTAKE of Heroes and could still plausibily go on IIGS. LOL


Title: Re: \
Post by: The Old Master Painter on January 11, 2016, 06:12:59 AM
It is still a wonder to me why Brian was recording "Love to Say Dada" around then. Any opinions? Where all those post-February recordings for Heroes where actually dedicated to The Elements? Think about it:

Chimes/Whistle Intro= Opening to Mrs. O' Leary's Fire

All Day = Love to Say Dada = Air = Water?

Sleep a Lot = Vega-Tables
An interesting observation.  But if that was really the case, why not slate them as The Elements (as Mrs O'Leary's Cow was)?  Why slate Chimes as Heroes and Villains intro?  Why slate All Day as Love to Say Dada?  Or it's just coincidence that the last remaining songs were (possibly) associated with The Elements (possibly because The Elements as a concept died in December and these were just segments gutted from it (Chimes, at the very least).  

I'm still not buying All Day = Air.  
When it was called "All Day", it was simply a segment of H&V that would have featured spoken word portions in those breaks (which I believe was the only manifestation of the "comedy" aspect of SMiLE, imo, which was even further reduced to "You're Under Arrest!").  Then it eventually became it's own entity in March and was about a baby (hence the term "dada").  Then by June it had started to become CooL Cool Water...  So was All Day an unfinished piano piece?  not really, it was finished as Cool Cool Water!  If anything, All Day is a contender for the Water Element since it eventually became a song about water, but I will be the first to admit that is wishful thinking and there's no direct evidence of it.

Also I think the "all day" lyric in Whistle In is just coincidence, and a stretch at best.  Sorry.

What I think is really interesting is a theory guitarfool and I mentioned (independently, I swear!) in the other thread... what if the "unfinished piano piece" was the fade to Wind Chimes?  That version was never finished and scrapped for a re-record for Smiley Smile, and Vosse really built that segment up as a great unrealized piece.  Again, no direct evidence, but an interesting thought.  

Also an interesting thought I believe Mujan mentioned in the same thread, that a number of vocal and chant pieces were recorded during the "Psychedelic Sounds" sessions that could reflect an element (Veggie chant for Earth, Water chant for Water, breathing for Air).  What if The Elements was, at one point, entirely a spoken word suite?  

One final 'What If'...  We learned that Vegetables was implicitly identified as the Earth section, right?  The April Assembly tape is lacking the Fade... What if the Vege-Tables Fade was meant for The Elements but the rest was meant for the song Vege-Tables?  

Sonic, I listened to your mix of The Elements based on this.... And it's amazing, but may I suggest aomething if you don't mind?

For Fire, I suggest you add the Fire crackling sounds, to make it more identifiably Fire, and vintage accurate since Brian did the same..

For Air, you could add the Breathing sounds over the piano, with tons of echo/reverb, and apply the Smog Rant over that.

For Water, I suggest you add the Water Sounds Vosse recorded in 1966, and to find them, you'd have to look up "Bob Gordon's Real Trip"

And finally for Earth, I suggest you add the some of the Veggie chants or arguments to make it identifiably "Earth."

Just my 2 cents, man. Sounds great so far.


Title: Re: \
Post by: soniclovenoize on January 11, 2016, 07:59:11 PM
Sonic, I listened to your mix of The Elements based on this.... And it's amazing, but may I suggest aomething if you don't mind?

For Fire, I suggest you add the Fire crackling sounds, to make it more identifiably Fire, and vintage accurate since Brian did the same..

For Air, you could add the Breathing sounds over the piano, with tons of echo/reverb, and apply the Smog Rant over that.

For Water, I suggest you add the Water Sounds Vosse recorded in 1966, and to find them, you'd have to look up "Bob Gordon's Real Trip"

And finally for Earth, I suggest you add the some of the Veggie chants or arguments to make it identifiably "Earth."

Just my 2 cents, man. Sounds great so far.


Hey thanks for the suggestions, as well as listening! :)  That mix I posted early was simply a 'What If'.  I don't know if I would actually make an Elements like that.  As I said earlier, I'd prefer my Wind Chimes tag in Wind Chimes and my Veges Fade in Veges!  I just thought it was an interesting idea to string together, especially when the commonality between 3 of the 4 pieces was that they were a repetitive two-chord sequence with variations on a melodic theme. 

Those are interesting ideas with the chants and the water sounds, but a while back I was toying with a different way to view The Elements... 'What If' instead of viewing The Elements as a suite of four separate sections for Earth, Wind, Fire and Water, it's one piece that communicates the interaction and relationship between the four classical elements (because that was an important part about the classical elements, how they interact)? 
 
Since part 1 of ILTSDD sounded like rolling rocks and pebbled to me (earth) and Second Day sounded like leaves blowing in the wind (air) and of course ILTSDD to me sounded like water, you could string that whole section together and it's all of earth, air and water interacting with eachother.  So in my most recent revision to my SMiLE I had an Elements with that, sandwiched between Mrs O'Leary's Cow and the Whispering Winds section for good measure, so instead of four distinct sections it's one piece with the four elements interacting with each other.  With this, you do not need to say Wind Chimes/Vege-Tables/IIGS or another separate song on the 12-song list is an Element, it's all self-sufficient.   


Title: Re: \
Post by: jiggy22 on January 15, 2016, 06:20:50 PM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg


Title: Re: \
Post by: yonderhillside on January 16, 2016, 07:01:56 AM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg

I enjoyed it jiggy. Very clean edits. I think I'll add it to my alternate Smiley Smile.

Man, I tried posting my stuff on youtube (for first time ever) and had such a hard time. I guess their online video editing software doesn't work for sh*t. Reckon I need to just download some free video editing software on my own.


Title: Re: \
Post by: jiggy22 on January 16, 2016, 10:55:57 AM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg

I enjoyed it jiggy. Very clean edits. I think I'll add it to my alternate Smiley Smile.

Man, I tried posting my stuff on youtube (for first time ever) and had such a hard time. I guess their online video editing software doesn't work for sh*t. Reckon I need to just download some free video editing software on my own.

Thank you so much! I guess it's a good thing that I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music editing. ;D


Title: Re: \
Post by: yonderhillside on January 16, 2016, 05:25:32 PM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg

I enjoyed it jiggy. Very clean edits. I think I'll add it to my alternate Smiley Smile.

Man, I tried posting my stuff on youtube (for first time ever) and had such a hard time. I guess their online video editing software doesn't work for sh*t. Reckon I need to just download some free video editing software on my own.

Thank you so much! I guess it's a good thing that I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music editing. ;D

I've found that in myself as well in my recent excursion into editing and splicing. There's something thrilling about making an incision in a millisecond of time.


Title: Re: \
Post by: yonderhillside on January 16, 2016, 05:27:33 PM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg

I enjoyed it jiggy. Very clean edits. I think I'll add it to my alternate Smiley Smile.

Man, I tried posting my stuff on youtube (for first time ever) and had such a hard time. I guess their online video editing software doesn't work for sh*t. Reckon I need to just download some free video editing software on my own.

Thank you so much! I guess it's a good thing that I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music editing. ;D

By the way, what's the source for that early version of Cool, Cool Water?


Title: Re: \
Post by: jiggy22 on January 16, 2016, 05:39:27 PM
For sure jiggy, I'd like to hear your mix. I feel about the same way about it being a better fit for an album like Smiley Smile or Wild Honey, and more controversially, Vega-Tables as well. Though I do concur a Second Day title would be a nice little biblical pun for the Air element.

I finally got around to posting my version of Cool Cool Water onto youtube, I plan on adding more of my remixed stuff on a regular basis. Let me know what you all think, I'd really appreciate it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbel846NLg

I enjoyed it jiggy. Very clean edits. I think I'll add it to my alternate Smiley Smile.

Man, I tried posting my stuff on youtube (for first time ever) and had such a hard time. I guess their online video editing software doesn't work for sh*t. Reckon I need to just download some free video editing software on my own.

Thank you so much! I guess it's a good thing that I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to music editing. ;D

By the way, what's the source for that early version of Cool, Cool Water?

It's from the Smile Sessions boxset (Disc 4 - Track 14) - Recorded on June 7th, 1967 during the Smiley Smile sessions.