The Smiley Smile Message Board

With the Live in Chicago and Party! albums dropping down on us this year I was just wondering what the future may 'realistically' hold ? Next year may be a bit sparse, seeing the PS Sessions & SMiLE boxes pretty much covered that year in the studio - so guess that leaves Michigan 66 as the potential live release.
1967 ? Lei'd in Hawaii.. but what then ? Seems along way off til we hit the Carnegie recordings. Add Some Music in its original form ? The full Live in London tapes ? Jeez, even that's a fair way off ! Dare we even hold our breath for the Adult/Child era ? Still best be grateful for what we have gotten so far ...  ;D

What's released night depend on the number of downloads stuff like Big Surf Beat and Chicago 65 get. Are there enough for these projects to even wash their face?

These download-only albums are bullshit. Who pays money of a digital copy? I don't get it. Why don't they just release a limited vinyl series live collection of some sort? Collectors would by that in a heart beat. No ones gonna by those digital downloads...

Although I'd prefer to buy a CD copy, I definitely buy all the download-only releases, and I'm sure that many on this board do as well!

Lot of folk on this board have already, ergo your claim is... mistaken.  ;D

For the company, a digital release is easier & cheaper. Pressing, packaging & shipping costs ? Nope.

Have to agree, Michigan 1966 seems to be the only logical choice for next year, unless the "GV" vocal multitracks suddenly surface. 1967... well... yes, Lei'd in Hawaii, or maybe the original Wild Honey & sessions. In stereo.

Still some Smiley tracks haven't surfaced, like Hawaiian Song, and we know of a few rogue Smile takes … maybe a Smile / Smiley combo for 67?

I do hope there's enough interest for physical release some day though. I'm old in that way…

Live in Chicago ? What´s that ? I never heard about this.

And my understanding is that the label puts them out to extend copyright not to make money. And, while I too love physical releases, the handwriting is on the wall, CDs are being phased out.  The new macs don't even come with a cd port!

 MANFRED...41 tunes, out yesterday via Amazon or iTunes as downloads. Fabulous, loose, fun, charming, lively indeed !!!!

Whole thing is £11.99 in UK.....or 99p per song.

Ok, thank you.

41? I got 40 on iTunes uk…

From what I understand THE BIG BEAT 1963 and KEEP AN EYE ON SUMMER 1964 were both pitched to Capitol as limited-edition vinyl releases, and were also pitched to Acoustic Sounds and other specialty labels, but there wasn't any interest.

Lee

What about all the shows from the fall '67 tour that have made the rounds on boots? Those could stand an official copyright-protection release.

Is it true that they actually filmed all of Lei'd In Hawaii? If so, that would be a cool release.

I asked Alan about that awhile back - and no, it's just some silent home movie stuff shot by someone with Dennis' camera - and NOT the whole show(s).

Ah, yes indeed. Good call.

One thing that puzzles me about this 50-year copyright issue, especially in light of folk calling for the stereo mixed of WH, Today or whatever... but does an alternate mix actually differ in copyright from the initial mono mix ? Surely it's the same 'recording' so would be covered ? When the 64 release came about, and was full of Shut Down mixes, that confused the heck out of me... or was that just the opportunity to issue those recently rediscovered tapes ?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to hear stereo mixes too, but just don't understand how they fall out of copyright when it's a result of the same tapes being used...
Or is it just me being d'oh ?!

With Dylan's cutting edge box set upping the ante on these archival releases - releasing every studio take and rehearsal from 65 to 66, and every live concert recorded in 65 as a digital download - perhaps BRI will consider doing something similar for 1966, all the Pet Sounds takes and mixes (we still don't have Brian's mono mix of Trombone Dixie) and all of the Smile takes from that year, plus Michigan live.  We only have excerpts of the PS sessions on the PS box, and there are a LOT of unbooted Smile sessions that were only minimally excerpted on TSS.  Plus a few omissions from TSS like the full party reels, Barnyard with the backing vocals, Brian's mono mix of the instrumental Child, the Durrie Parks acetates, etc.

Mark Linett and I actually discussed this last year.  Per Mark, any outtake, false start, or alternate mix of a released take is automatically covered by copyright protection. It is only unreleased songs, or distinct versions of songs recorded but not officially released that require copyright renewal.  However, with respect to last year's 1964 set, Mark said that there was supposed to have been an overall 1964 50th anniversary physical release that contained a few tracks that needed protecting as well as alternate mixes, outtakes, etc.  At some point UMG decided not to release the 2 disc set on CD, but since the masters were already prepared they agreed to go ahead with it as a download and release it at the same time as the live '64 concert material, which had songs on it that weren't on the CONCERT album and needed copyright protection.

Lee

Oh dear... that actually makes me much LESS hopeful for a 1965 studio set like the '64 one to still be coming our way. I remember someone saying (can't remember who, someone here) over the course of the last year that we wouldn't necessarily get a set like KAEOS '64 every year, and Lee's post above makes me think that might have been right. The Big Beat 63 made total sense as a copyright extension set, because so many of the tunes on it were new to 'official' release... and KAEOS '64 makes sense in the same way because there (a) were a few tunes that were never released but have been booted, and then (b) the rest of the stuff was clearly from a cancelled two-disc set of mixes of 1964 material made from the recovered Shut Down Volume II work tapes that Capitol obviously thought they might as well put out with the other '64 copyright extension stuff, because the time and money had already been put in to create those mixes.

That suggests to me that without a similar excuse for 1965 material for which unreleased mixes would already have been made and be lying around awaiting release, we *won't* be getting a set like that this year... if you follow me  :(

I still hope to be proved heinously, spectacularly wrong within hours of this post. But I'd say that makes it less of a likely thing... and indeed maybe less likely that we'll ever have detailed roundups of BB vault material arranged on an annual basis and to the level of detail seen on KAEOS '64 again.

But like I say, maybe, just maybe, I'm wrong. To quote the Rutles, I'm Living In Hope. And a very pleasant Derbyshire village it is, too. Cracking pudding up the road in Bakewell, too.

(Author's note: I don't really live in Derbyshire)

*all I can think of right now is Endless Sleep and that Christmas tune that was probably a Brian original**, but I'm sure there were a few others on the set too...
** [checks iTunes] ah, yes... 'Let's Live Before We Die', aka 'Christmas Eve'

Yeah, if Lee's right (though I must say that makes little sense from a copyright perspective to me, but I am not a lawyer...) we won't see one. The only unreleased songs, other than the Party tracks, I know of are Stella By Starlight, How Deep is the Ocean, and Three Blind Mice. I don't see them being worth UMG's while to put a set around.

Yeah, agreed, it's not looking good, is it Andrew...? And I think I'm right in saying it's not even *three* unreleased tracks for 1965 - wasn't BW's Three Blind Mice arrangement released (curiously, as it was way out of era) on the SMiLE Sessions box?

I wish these download-only releases came with full-size artwork and liner notes, for those of us who burn the albums to CD.

It's a cost issue, though, isn't it? Basically, the releases are no-frills, and just there at all to satisfy the legal requirement that they have been released in some form so the artists can have the copyright extension... so the record company doesn't pay any more than absolutely needed to get the record 'out there'. And design costs them money, and paying someone to do liners would cost them money... so it doesn't happen.

I wish they'd do it too... hell, I wish all this stuff was out on CD with lovely liners and beautiful art... but as I understand it, the only way any of it comes out at all is if it costs Capitol next to nothing.

Matt, I'd love to see all this stuff out in physical format too, maybe hires SACD/Blu-ray/DVD audio, vinyl whatever… perhaps a ltd release box collecting it all, in a few years.

I think though that we're being given more that is strictly necessary for reasons of copyright extension. I'm sure a number of the tracks we've heard so far would be covered by the definition Lee gave above, and that Mark and Alan are getting as much stuff in the public domain as they can get past the folks at Capitol/UMe/ whoever holds the, erm, keys.

So major thanks to Mark and Alan… looking forward to the next batch, whenever and whatever that might be.

Sure John, I agree, it's great that we've received what we've had so far, and I don't doubt that the releases we've had have been better than the bare legal minimum required in terms of track listing thanks to having Mark and Alan involved. But they can't spirit Capitol budget out of nothing if there's no will in the Tower to spend it. It sounds as though that willingness was there for The Big Beat '63, as there were lots of tracks new to official release on there that needed further copyright protection. And KAEOS '64 may have been a special case, as in addition to the legally required tracks for the 1964 copyright extension, there were these other tracks that had already been mixed for a canned two-CD release of mixes of 1964 material prepared from the returned Shut Down Vol.2 multitrack work tapes a few years back. So KAEOS '64 ended up combining all of these available 1964 tracks, and Capitol were happy to put it out with all those tracks, because they'd paid for some of it already and the rest needed to happen for the copyright extension anyway.

For 1965 on, that might mean the copyright extension set for studio recordings  - if there is one at all - is not as lavish as the 1964 one.

May I be double-wrong in all of this, with an extra side helping of 'inaccurate', and grated 'utterly mistaken' sprinkles on top...!

Also "Sandy, She Needs Me," right?

I'm hoping Carry Me Home will be released in 2023 as a copyright extension

Three Blind Mice was released on The Smile Sessions box set.  Hard to understand why when there was more Smile stuff that was omitted, but there it is.

There's gotta be some worthy Love You era outtakes looking for a 2027 release! - We Gotta Groove, Clangin', Hey There Momma . . . .

. . . the list goes on . . . maybe someone could compile a list of possible / probable inclusions for next 45 years -  can't wait 'til 2062 so I can hear (assuming I still have my hearing, if I'm indeed still alive) that 2012 version of She Believes In Love Again!

This all assumes that the copyright laws don't change again!

Anyways, the best thing we can do is buy these sets so that there is a good incentive for the company to keep releasing them.

Sandy was only (as far as I'm aware) a backing track and tag vocals, and those were released on the Made In California mix of Sherry She Needs Me (along with the 1976 [or whenever -- around then] lead vocal).

And yeah, I forgot about Three Blind Mice being on the Smile Sessions set.

I was thinking there were two versions of "Sandy" recorded during the SDSN sessions.  A fully produced track with '76 vocal was released on MiC, but I thought the March 29, 1965 SOT version with some BVs was a different track.  Am I mistaken on this?

I figured since they released unfinished tracks on previous copyright protection releases, they might release  the alternate "Sandy" as well.

That's because they are trying to make them slim as possible..  You can still hook one up with a USB.

BTW, the 1963 and 1964 copyright extension sets WERE released on CD somewhere in Europe and I believe are still available. And it's been confirmed that they're legit and made from lossless sources.

I don't recall that, Upside-down Follow-up To Pet Sounds... I remember establishing that some of the EU-based on-line music sites were selling lossless files truly derived from the production masters (ie NOT MP3s back-upscaled to lossless files, with the MP3 compression still in them)... but I don't remember anyone selling CDs. Or not legit Capitol/EMI authorised ones, anyway.

Not saying you're wrong, by the way - just that *I* haven't encountered CDs of The Big Beat or KAEOS '64 being on sale here in Europe...!

I absolutely love these concerts. I wonder why there has not been a formal (or informal for that matter) press release? Perhaps there is something else coming?

It's just a barebones release to get the stuff out to protect the copyright. I doubt any money was spent on PR - it's not necessary. By now Universal and company know that this news will spread around the forums quickly, so why not use the free advertising?

I agree with bryand.....the Chicago concerts are amazing. Listening to them, I reconnect with the BB  I heard as a teen. Fun, funny and exciting rock music. Yes, lots of flubs , lyrics missed etc---   But just like being on stage, a great representation. Incidentally, am finding Carls cd to be not so great--  maybe three fantastic songs....but, regrettably, his writing on the others doesnt work for me. The Party cds.....interesting, glad to have them--- but the Chicago set is the best of the lot.( in my opinion.....)

It's fascinating to hear one after the  other.  I listened to the first Chicago show... it's like they just rolled into town... hurried set-up... get in and out, end of story... but loose and fun.

I listened to a mono mix (from vinyl) of Jan & Dean's Command Performance, as a bridge between the two BB shows... and a comparison between stage styles.

The second night sounds like they worked hard to get a good show... better song order for the set list... more polished.  I enjoyed the addition of 409 and In My Room.  Adding some songs (even if repeated from BBConcert) to have in the can in case a live album got mixed.  And Papa Oom Mow Mow worked great as an encore.

I thought the instrumental backing for Please Let Me Wonder worked better the first night... but the vocals are better the second night.  All in all, fascinating.  I remember driving past the Arie Crown at McCormick Place, as a kid, in 1965.

Same here. I've seen them listed at dodgy sits in Japan and Singapore (I assume) but not Europe. Haven't a clue whether they use MP3s, lossless or upscaled crud… but (for once) I ain't buying. Seems the officially sanctioned lossless downloads are the best option here but I'm too old for that format ;)

Has there been any update on what might be released this year?

There have been rumblings of the Michigan '66 show, but nothing confirmed. Chicago '65 came last year, so it would certainly make sense. But we shouldn't assume anything until or if an announcement materializes.

Hope they release it! wonder if there is any plans for a studio sessions or something like they have done in precious years! I dont know what they could actually release besides for maybe Stella on Starlight and How Deep is the Ocean  or something just so they can give us something new to buy! I wouldnt mind  buying two new albums again this year! ;)

Actually it has been confirmed that it is on it's way, subscribe to ESQ Magazine that's where I found out.

I'll be very curious to see what comes out next year regarding material related to the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey era session tapes.   :hat

It seems plausible that we would have Lei'd In Hawaii and the 1967 Live Shows (Detroit, Pittsburgh, Boston) next year.

Any links?

While I believe some if not all of the extension sets were released in lossless/highrez as downloads, I don't recall any confirmed legit CD releases.

If they were like the Beatles one-shot "1963" set, then physical pirated copies popped up before long.

But unless someone can come up with links to official physical releases, I'm guessing any CD releases would likely be pirated. Perhaps the pirated versions went to the trouble of using lossless or highrez sources rather than iTunes or MP3 quality, in which case they would *sound* good.

I'm just thinking there are still a good amount of BB fans who loath download-only options and would have jumped at CD copies, to say nothing of collectors.

Wasn't Party Unplugged a copyright extension release?  That got a CD issue for whatever reason.

interesting! I would love to see some demos and unreleased songs etc! Thre can be some great stuff to release next year! hope for something good this year too!