The Smiley Smile Message Board

During the mid-60s, sitars were the in-thing for a while, with The Beatles, Traffic, The Yardbirds and even The Association using them on some of their records to give that mystical flavour, but I cannot recall any Beach Boys track that uses a sitar – why not? With all the experimentation that Brian was undergoing as well as breaking new musical ground, how is it he seemed to overlook the sitar, even though he had instruments like the mellotron and theremin, plus others, on quite a few records? I wonder what some of the Smile tracks would have sounded like with a bit of sitar thrown in, on something like Wonderful?

Anyone know why a sitar was not, or barely, used by Brian and the others?

I'd say because it was a gimmick-y kind of sound, and Brian and the group were originals/innovators. By the time other groups were doing the sitar thing, the Beach Boys were on the "back to basics" trip.

They apparently used a sitar on an early, unreleased version of All I Wanna Do, it's a shame that's never been publicly released!

According to the new Carl Wilson biography, All I Wanna Do was started off but abandoned by Brian, to be picked up subsequently by other BBs. Raises a couple of questions - firstly, is this correct? - I don't recall hearing (as in, being aware of) that before - and secondly, could that be the sitar version you mention here?

Edit: and a bleedin' obvious third question, who played it? Guitarist Carl, banjo pluckin' Al Jardine, or maybe even Indian mystic Mike?

Wilson when asked about sitars in '66:

"Yeah. I think it's interesting, and if I feel I can make a record that uses an instrument such as a sitar, then I'll do it." (Priore 2005, p. 69)

They did a pretty good job of making a banjo sound like a sitar on Cabinessence...

Very few bands emerged from their brief dalliance with the sitar with much, if any, credit. The Beatles, I guess. To these ears, the most laughable use was on the Carnival of Sound album. The whole point about a sitar is that you DON'T play it like a guitar.

Also, The Stones.

As for "All I Wanna Do" - there is an electric sitar on the released version - you can hear it twanging away in a couple of places. But that's quite a different animal - more of a guitar designed to sound like a sitar.

I don't think that's true: there's nothing gimmicky about the instrument or how it sounds. The gimmick was the clumsy use by people adopting the trend without having the ideas or understanding to do so effectively. (And maybe that's what you meant.) Unfortunately the use of sitars tended to be akin to glam rockers putting on their flannels and throwing away their hairspray once grunge hit, or a pop star putting on a cowboy hat to "go country." Superficial change at best.


Sometimes, sometimes not. Certainly not above hopping on a trend such as using sitars, even though they didn't.

I've always thought there was a brief sitar moment  right before Brian goes into singing surf's up.  Kind of like a twang.

As used in 1969 by Joe South on a song Brian has sung about and also, I believe, said he liked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6owaQqwgUk

Oh God, yes. I like some of the stuff Jan came up with for Carnival of Sound, like "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind," but yeah,most (maybe all) of the sitar use is on that album is totally embarrassing. And incredibly dated.

Z-Tar.

I do like that sound ... I think that's the Coral sitar/guitar.

My favorite trend hopping psych record is Del Shannon's "Further Adventures of Charles Westover". Ironically, I think his most honest album.

(http://www.edroman.com/guitars/jerryjones/images/avail_jjs12183.JPG)

Heck, they could hardly play geetars, much less seetars.

My dyslexia must be acting up. I read this thread title as:

Stairs - Why did the beach boys never use them? Or did they?

I thought that might be the beginning of a mind blowing expose on a previously unseen corner (stairway?) of the Beach Boys myth. Alas, imagine my disappointment to discover it's simply about Sitars, or the lack there of, on Beach Boys recordings.

Sigh...

 

It's *MY* eyes.  I thought it said 'stars'.  Anyway...Why use sitars?  Sitars/Schmitars.  The Beach Boys used carrots. :lol  THAT was pretty unique.  Sitars had Ravi Shankar.  Carrots had Bugs Bunny. ;)

Didn't Brian use the sitar on one of the tracks off his and Kalinich' poetry album ("A World Of Peace Must Come")?

I feel like they did use a sitar, buried deep in the mix of one of their songs, but I can't think of what it might be. Something during the Sunflower or Surf's Up era?

See c-man's comment above: "'All I Wanna Do'----there is an electric sitar on the released version----you can hear it twanging away in a couple of places."

I hate those electric sitars....they sound terrible...

I love 'em. Denny Dias soloing some modal jazz on the Coral with Steely Dan: https://youtu.be/gMWBHpd4WiI?t=2m38s (https://youtu.be/gMWBHpd4WiI?t=2m38s)

Back in the day, Brother Records Inc. had all their sitars in a Van Nuys warehouse (near the corner of Roscoe and Van Owen).  In the spring of 1967 they were "borrowed" by Jan Berry.  By the time BRI got the instruments back the whole sitar thing was passé.

Since it came up, just a bit more info on the electric sitar. The photo posted above is a version of the instrument, but more period correct would be the instrument shown to the left in this photo to follow. This specific color was standard for the original Coral electric sitar models, and the color most often seen:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/Ro_S/sitar%20guitar%20mod%20project/sitars.jpg)

The instrument was developed by session guitarist Vinnie Bell, who also "invented" one of the precursors of the electric 12-string, the Bellzouki as seen in H's avatar above and featured in the WIBN control room seen from Love & Mercy. Vinnie Bell invented and developed quite a lot of different guitar gadgets and designs. Subject for another project perhaps, but most people have heard Vinnie Bell play on any one of thousands of sessions he did through the years.

Some of the famous hit records where an electric sitar was heard actually feature Bell himself playing his invention, "Band Of Gold" by Freda Payne and one of the early ones, "Green Tambourine" by the Lemon Pipers. Others from numerous later Philly Soul records to Stevie Wonder to BJ Thomas featured any number of session guitarists playing those hooks on the Coral sitar. Bell was one of the most prolific session guitarists of the 60's and early 70's, and if you've heard any of the classic Bacharach/David hits with Dionne Warwick, or "Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You" by Frankie Valli, that dead-string percussive guitar hitting the "chick-chick" accents was one of Bell's calling cards, he'd get calls just to add that sound to record dates. Same with his "underwater" guitar, heard on the Love Theme From Airport which was a massive early 70's hit, and many commercial and film dates besides that. Players are still trying to figure out exactly what effects he chained together to get that sound.

How did the sound of the electric sitar get so popular? When something appears on a hit record, and becomes a hook or a trademark sound, other producers and artists want it on their records as well. Simple as that. It went beyond the pop psychedelia and the far-out trippy sounds when Motown and Philly Soul hits used it too, and even though it did become a bit of a cliche in a bad way due to overuse, there were still prominent guitarists using it for the next few decades and creating some neat lines with it.

Here is Vinnie Bell demonstrating his Coral Electric Sitar in a 60's newsreel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE3C1bX-6yk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE3C1bX-6yk)


One of my students about 8 years ago bought one, not an original Coral (which can be very pricey) or not a modern Jerry Jones made replica (also pricey), but an Asian-made version under the Rogue brand name. At some point back then the catalog retailers were selling them at closeout prices, and I still kick myself for not buying one at such a low price. And real sitars from India, even the most basic "student" models, were out of the question and too fragile realistically to be practical. Not to mention the difficulty in finding and shipping one.

It was a neat instrument. Just to clear the whole thing up, it is basically a standard guitar, six strings tuned like a guitar, which on the Coral also has a series of drone strings that you can tune with a tuning key like you'd tune a drum head or a piano. But hardly anyone actually used those for anything more than an effect like Bell is shown doing in that film when he strums them for that droning sound. They don't really stay in tune too well. The main element of these instruments that makes the sitar sound is the molded plastic bridge that Bell developed. The strings lay on top of this plastic bridge which is elongated, and this plastic touching the strings creates the "buzz" that make it sound like a sitar. It also make the instrument sometimes difficult to tune and intonate up and down the neck because the string is basically laying on over an inch of molded plastic. So you sacrifice the precise tuning for the effect of the buzz. That plastic bridge was the killer app of the instrument. Not the pickups, not the design, etc., but that Bell-designed bridge was what gave it that sound. Everything else is a standard guitar.

They used it on live concerts occasionally.

 Listen to this Live Version of California Saga: California from 1974 Live in Milwakee Wisconsin. Very large presents of a Sitar. It is pretty good live version! Give it a listen!

https://youtu.be/vSKIQvubgDQ

I had always assumed that it was an electric sitar playing the brief solo on "Our Sweet Love" (with the sitar twang turned down low).

That's always sounded more like a standard 12-string electric to me.

Just guessing that's the "Electric Sitar" guitar, popularly used on B.J. Thomas's "Hooked on a Feeling," the Boxtops' "Cry Like a Baby," Joe South's "Games People Play among others.

SWD in his thread describes it only as a electric guitar (at least that's all I could find). Thanks for clarifying, c-man.

Is this just an electric guitar too then at this concert???

Now, THAT really DOES sound like an electric sitar! I haven't listened to the whole song yet to see if there's also a pedal steel part, like there normally was on that song at that time (played by Ricky). If so, I would say Al is maybe playing the electric sitar for his normal banjo part - or perhaps a banjo through a chorus/phase effect that gives it the illusion of an electric sitar. Otherwise, my guess would be that Ricky is for some reason playing an electric sitar here, rather than his normal pedal steel. I recall that on the tape of the Nassau, Coliseum show from that same year, the opening song ("Wouldn't It Be Nice") benefited from some unidentifiable "twangy" stringed-instrument sound. Could that also be an electric sitar? If so, that would an a quite fascinating dimension to this era of the live band!