The Smiley Smile Message Board

Could BB songs have been hits of the exact same caliber if no outside musicians were used to replace BB members? For example, could  Surfin' USA have been the exact hit it was if Denny alone had played the drums? For that song, I'd say yes. For other more complex material, I suppose it's subject for some debate.

I love the instrumental contributions of both the BB members themselves, as well as the augmented contributions of other musicians, such as The Wrecking Crew... but I think Brian generally made the right call when he used other musicians in the manner and for the reasons that he did. 

I think the question is flawed because there are a good number of Beach Boys hit songs that is just them playing. Don't Worry Baby comes to mind as one that is only the Beach Boys on the session. Another is When I Grow Up To Be A Man, don't think there's any session players on that one either. There are others of course, Surfin Safari, 409, Surfer Girl, Shut Down, probably Little Deuce Coupe, I'm just pulling these off the top of my head...it would be good to get C-Man to confirm the list, I'd say there's probably a dozen of their "hits" or best known songs that have no other musicians on them, or as in the case of In My Room that have one minor addition (harpist) that is not one of the BB's, or with a minor contribution like a second bass, percussionist or sax player. For example I Get Around is all them except for the saxes, multiple bassists and some added percussion. Then I Kissed Her was a UK hit, and is mostly, if not all, the BB's on the session. So the direct answer to the thread question is yes, because there are many examples of hit Beach Boys songs with "just them" playing. But i assume the question you probably wanted to pose was, could the hit songs that they don't play the core instruments on have been hits with them playing. The answer to that would not be a simple yes or no. It would depend on the song. I don't think the Beach Boys were under-used as musicians, but they are certainly under-credited.

I agree completely, Jon. I'm not posing the question in any way to diminish the BB members' contributions to their hit songs, which is certainly far more extensive than the typical music fan would think. I'm more of the opinion that, while Brian made good choices in bringing on talented musicians, that he could in fact have gotten kick-ass performances out of the Boys that could have made the songs just as successful in many cases.  Recently reading about the recording process of Surfin' USA made me think how the song, while perfect in its current recorded form, could probably have been just as rad with only Denny on it.

Great response Jon.

So I guess NO WAY!!!...is not the right answer then. ;)

The songs would have been different, but they would have been just as good or even better, look at the Beatles, they recorded their own stuff with very few outside musicians.  Paul McCartney may be the greatest bass player ever but he didn't start off that way.  If the Beach Boys would have recorded their own songs they would have been just as popular, Carl and Al were already turning into accomplished guitarists anyways and Brian could competently play bass, was a great pianist... Dennis was a fantastic drummer, etc. 

The 'groove' would have been different but they would have banged out just as many hits in my opinion.  Or more. 

I don't think it was simply a matter of technical skill, as is often assumed. The '60s studio scene was more about time/schedule constraints and efficiency. Brian used his brothers on a lot of sessions over the years, particularly when you get to the 15 Big Ones/Love You era.

... But I don't think anyone could really answer your question. Those songs were all hits because Brian produced and voiced them in a way that appealed to the kids of the day. He used whatever resources available to get it all down on tape, and for a few years, he knew just how to make it all work.

The Beatles used session musicians; they just didn't use them to play the instruments the Beatles played. But obviously they used strings and George Martin played keys often.

I'm going to differ with most and give a pretty confident yes. Wouldn't it be Nice, for instance, would sound very different, but just on vocals and melody, it's a great song. And by the time the whole tracks were being regularly done by session musicians the BBs playing skills were perfectly fine. The music would've sounded more raw and rock, which some would like more, some less, but the melodies and vocals and overall catchiness would be unchanged.

Well, for one thing, there would be no strings, horns or woodwinds.

I realize that I was not particularly good at outlining my original question. I meant to ask my question with regards to instruments that the band played… For instance, Dennis would be on drums, Carl and/or Al would be on guitar,  Brian on bass and so on. For actual instruments like woodwinds that the band did not know how to play,  those instruments would still be played by other people in my hypothetical question.

I'm just pondering the chart ramifications, if any, if Brian only minimally replaced the bandmembers for parts on instruments they were familiar with, which they could have otherwise played on their own. I'm sure it wound up being easier on him, as well as the guys with their rough touring schedule, for things to have been done the way they in fact were done… But all that aside, I'm just wondering if the hits would have still been hits. I generally think the answer is yes.

Heck, in that case I think it would hardly make a difference.

In some cases I think it would. I can't see Carl (and/or Alan) playing the guitar parts on, say, "Sloop John B" as they now stand. And would Brian have been satisfied with playing the crucial bass line himself, perfectionist that he was/is? 

Ron -- I beg to differ.

McCartney was a brilliant bassist out of the gate.
Unique with smart decisions and groove from the onset.

Maybe you're right. But I don't think the Sloop John B guitar parts are technically very difficult other than keeping the timing and lightness on the pick so I feel like in the studio, with the opportunity to make several takes until the timing and pressure's right, they could pull it off. I guess one big question would be how much were the musicians involved in creating their parts. Of course we know that in some circumstances the musicians did have input, in which case the output would have differed.

This was not a hit, but wasn't That's Not Me just the Beach Boys? If so, they were able to perform a song that didn't sound out of place on Pet Sounds.

Could the Beatles hits have been hits with just the Beatles playing?

Just Brian and Carl, according to Granata and Abbott, who both credit Hal B with drumming duties. And Terry M was on tambourine (according to Bruce J). Those guitar lines towards the end sound more like Glen C than Carl...

Wikipedia is all over the place as to instrumental credits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That%27s_Not_Me_(The_Beach_Boys_song). Perhaps c-man or AGD can clarify things...

Agreed, it fits in perfectly as track #3. A unique song on a unique album. 

Granata and Abbot are incorrect if that is what they wrote, as C-Man, Linett and others confirmed long ago that it's Dennis playing drums on That's Not Me, and Carl playing all the guitar lines.

C-Man's definitive session info here...
THAT'S NOT ME
Written: Music - Brian Wilson with Tony Asher / Words - Tony Asher with Brian Wilson
Arranged: Brian Wilson
Lead vocals: Mike Love
Falsetto lead vocals: Brian Wilson
Backing vocals: Brian Wilson, Bruce Johnston, Al Jardine, Carl Wilson, Mike Love
Basic Track
Hammond B-3 organ: Brian Wilson
Electric lead guitar: Carl Wilson
Drums: Dennis Wilson
Tambourines: Terry Melcher (slapping) and Steve Korthof (shaking)
Control room tracking assistance: Bruce Johnston
1st Overdub
12-string electric lead guitar: Carl Wilson
Fender bass: Brian Wilson
2nd Overdub
12-string electric lead guitar: Carl Wilson
Dano bass: Brian Wilson
3rd Overdub
Clackety percussion: Brian Wilson ?
Master # 55591
Master is Take 15
Recorded on 1/2" 4-track tape, followed by reduction-mix transfer to second-generation 1/2" 4-track tape (dubdown 1A) for vocals
Basic track & overdubs recorded at Western Recorders Studio 3, Hollywood, CA, Tuesday February 15, 1966, 2:00pm-5:00pm
Engineer: Chuck Britz
Vocals recorded thereafter

Yeah, I think the BBs could have handled the tambourines.  ;)

"Control room tracking assistance" ? Did that job pay union scale?

 :lol

Yes, I knew I read that somewhere. Probably in BB faq. Thus the answer to the question is a 100% yes!! Because they did it in the early days, and showed they could make music at a high level with That s Not Me.

Yep, on pp. 160 and 146 respectively (in my editions). Thank you, sir, from one who is always willing to learn something new about his favourite band. :=)

I learned in that movie about the wrecking crew that many of the original bands would have done just fine without the virtuoso parts played by certain members of The Wrecking Crew. Many Beach Boys songs that have studio musicians playing on them could very well have been played successfully and have been performed successfully by the band members themselves. You must understand that Brian Wilson is a composer. Beethoven did not just write music that he could bang out on his old piano but which are formally written for various instruments in an orchestra. Brian Wilson wrote orchestral pieces, so called pocket symphonies and these require orchestras and can never be performed as composed by a rockin  GarageBand even the very best rockin  GarageBand that the Beach Boys often were.