The Smiley Smile Message Board

 have found myself reflecting over the last couple of years since MIC about how amazing it is that this beautiful song, one of Dennis Wilson's crowning achievements, sat in limbo for so very long, and just how incredible the end of SU would have been with its presence, in whatever sequence with the other heavyweight tracks could have ideally been hammered out by Carl & Dennis.I know it's been discussed ad infinitum already, but when I picture that album with some dross excised and DWs two tracks (4th of July was a demo and would have been more orchestrated and finished) added to the mix, I get goosebumps at the level of introspective, grandiose melancholia that would have been on display, perhaps making the album unbalanced in that direction but rendering it an absolutely transcendent piece of art. Th end of side 2 would have been a stunning tour-de-force of extraordinary magnitude (to paraphrase the Kentucky Fried Movie.)

When that jewel of a song finally saw the light of day on MIC, I'll never forget the day the album came out, and listening to it for the first time after years pf anticipation when someone posted it on YouTube. I had an exhilarating, epiphanic reaction to it that I'll never forget, and tried to convey that passionate joy here by means of (arguable) hyperbole. That moment in time deserved intense, DW-like if you will, celebration of the news of its liberation from the vaults. Jon Stebbins clearly took quiet, understated satisfaction that the "eagle had finally had its time to soar" or words to that effect. I think unbridled, exuberant, totally non-ironic, apathetic or detached  enthusiasm is an important thing, no matter how unfashionable it is. This topic will probably elicit a couple of responses and then sink like a stone, but the main point I want to make is the magnitude of the Wilson brothers' spirituality and ambition during the early '70s (a mood matched somewhat by Mike and Al at that time, but anbandoned later, after the oldies revue formula was in full swing.) I remember the lone C50 show I saw at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley, and how the mellow mood was really starting to pick up dreamy momentum and flow after "All This Is That" and a couple of other more artistic early '70s tracks were played in sequence, only to have their slowly building, beautiful mood disrupted by "It's OK" or some other dross that ML had surely had a hand in programming into the set. I know he co-wrote ATIT, and I don't intend to gratuitously Mike-bash here, but the Wilson gift, as exemplified in WIBNTLA and the more abstract late-'60s and early '70s material, as well as Smile and some of the more obscure '60s classics (She Know Me Too Well, Spirit of America, Please Let Me Wonder, Keep An Eye On Summer, Guess I'm Dumb  etc.) sadly never ached its full fruition because of an inexorable push for conventionality, and that sadly lost potential is incalculable and worthy of grieving for.

I know different people have different things that they value and get out of the band's various types of music, many valuing their more conventional side, but what the Wilsons were reaching for and got disillusioned and worn out by battling Mr. Love et al for (and Al, who sided with Mike in the late '70s as the "clean livers" but went on the record later as regretting) was rare and special and transcendent, well worth fighting for, but unfortunately discouraged, and in Dennis' case, brutally snuffed out in the end. If he could've gotten some distance from the contentiousness and dysfunctional BB drama, then maybe, just maybe, he could have overcome his demons, seen how much he had to live for, and pulled it together. Doubtful I know. For the Love brothers to punch him in his throat (twice I think) and permanently damage his voice was unconscionable. It's fashionable not to hate on Mike and I only do so when I feel it's really justified, and in the case of his role in the more progressive element of the Wilson's musical potential, I think it's deserved. Here's to the Wilson music that was never heard or written, music which would have. like WIBN(TLA) soared into the stratosphere and been a beacon of beauty for future generations to be thrilled by.

God bless the musical dreams and visions of the Wilson brothers and lets be thankful for the degree to which they reached their full flowering.

Uh...you know it was Dennis who took WIBNTLA off the Surf's Up album, right? CARL pissed him off, not Mike..though it seems you think Love had something o do with it (he did not)...and, it is Dennis who sings the wonderful tag line on the end of "It's OK", so he must have liked it (more than Sail On Sailer, which he bailed out of) Personally, I think WIBNTLA is mediocure (and the MIC version mercifully cuts it back from the full version).   He also was kicked out of The Beach Boys several times, so he got some distance-trouble was, Dennis was a manic drug addicted alcoholic. His disease is what took the life out of him. The one-octive croon his voice was reduced to was attributed to cociane, etc...

Have you heard the full version?

Pretty sure his voice was far more affected by a punch to the throat and his inability to let it heal than anything drug related.

It's OK is one of my absolute BB favorites from the 1970s. Listen to vocal arrangements during its last 10 or 20 seconds or so, just plain brilliant! So much amazing stuff seemingly buried in the mix!

That said, WIBNTLA should've been on one of their early-70s albums, sure.

I'd love to get ahold of the full version… the "jam" (as it's been refered to) is when it starts to get interesting, but is cruelly cut short on the version most (all?) of us have heard. One for MiC II.

Uh...(God that smug modern prefix annoys me) yes I am aware that it was a dispute between he and Carl that was the main reason for Dennis's impulsive and regrettable yanking of his two superb tracks from SU. One factor in Dennis' gradual disillusionment during the '70s, however, was extreme jealousy of his brilliant offerings from Mike and Bruce, mainly (even Al, who sided with the other "clean livers" and later regretted it). He had to fight to get his material on the albums, and by the time of his last best efforts (Love Surrounds Me, Baby Blue etc.) the situation had turned around and he wanted to keep them for his solo offerings but was pressured into letting them be put onto albums that he despised wholeheartedly, such as MIU and L.A. WIBNTLA is patently NOT mediocre IMO. He hated Mike with a passion, for good reason IMO. Obviously he was drug & alcohol-dependent and an unreliable individual, but those problems were exacerbated by inter-band tensions and adversity, such as the loss of Brother Studios, his recording and music-making creative refuge and womb.

For someone whose talent was under appreciated he sure managed to have a big influence on Sunflower.  He would have had the same on Surf's Up had he not pulled those songs and again with Carl and the Passions a few numbers on a short (song wise) LP.

I would hazard a guess and say Bruce would not have had much influence on which of Dennis' songs made albums and would dispute your claim that he didn't rate his work. And remember Mike wrote words for Only With You and Pacific Ocean Blues.

On Pacific Ocean Blue there is a quote from Dennis:  "God Bless You Bruce".  I always assumed this was for our Bruce.  Maybe it wasn't.

It was. Bruce came in and did multiple vocal parts on "End Of The Show" for Dennis. But the statement could also be in appreciation of Bruce teaching Dennis a few complex chords and piano voicings back in the day, which helped Dennis enormously as a composer.

I'd really like to hear more about any relationship between Bruce and Dennis. It's a shame Bruce autobiography is non-happening because i'd just like to hear his take on the other guys and their lives together. Forget the TMZ-angle, what was their day-to-day relationship like? Any other instances of Bruce helping Dennis out? It seems to me that Bruce's ballad style of songwriting isn't so dissimilar from Dennis' ballads. I'd like to hear Bruce cover Only With You.

Essentially, it was everybody's fault, but Dennis.

This doesn't make sense. If you acknowledge that Dennis taking his songs off SU was due to a disagreement with Carl, why do you keep pushing the idea that Dennis had to fight Mike's ideas into the mix?

Yes remember folks, the bandmember who collaborated with Dennis more than any other bandmember was also the guy who strove to keep his songs off albums! Makes perfect sense. It had nothing to do with Dennis not turning up for the MIU and KTSA sessions. And it must have been a different Dennis Wilson with songwriting credits on LA Light.

I do agree that WIBNTLA is a very good song and it's a shame it was pulled from Surf's Up.

Thanks for clearing that up Craig!  Always good to have your input on these threads. It seems all the guys appreciated Bruce through the years and his talent.

<<Uh...(God that smug modern prefix annoys me) yes I am aware that it was a dispute between he and Carl that was the main reason for Dennis's impulsive and regrettable yanking of his two superb tracks from SU. One factor in Dennis' gradual disillusionment during the '70s, however, was extreme jealousy of his brilliant offerings from Mike and Bruce, mainly (even Al, who sided with the other "clean livers" and later regretted it). He had to fight to get his material on the albums, and by the time of his last best efforts (Love Surrounds Me, Baby Blue etc.) the situation had turned around and he wanted to keep them for his solo offerings but was pressured into letting them be put onto albums that he despised wholeheartedly, such as MIU and L.A. WIBNTLA is patently NOT mediocre IMO. He hated Mike with a passion, for good reason IMO. Obviously he was drug & alcohol-dependent and an unreliable individual, but those problems were exacerbated by inter-band tensions and adversity, such as the loss of Brother Studios, his recording and music-making creative refuge and womb.>>

Historical revisionism and gibberish.  First of all, Dennis was quite happy to provide the Beach Boys with material from BAMBU for LA Light.  Included in the tracks he submitted, which were also considered, were WILD SITUATION (featuring BG vocals from Carl and Bruce), COMPANION (according to Carli Munoz, in the recent and excellent ESQ issue on LA, this was in the running as the first lead off CBS BB single),  and he spent at least 6 months perfecting Love Surrounds Me for the Beach Boys.  I'd hardly call that pressure.  Second, Dennis was quoted in Rolling Stone as saying he was very happy with LA Light, mentioning the thrill of "getting together around the piano to sing together" again.  The exception was is feeling about HCTN, which he obviously disliked, and made no bones about in the interview.

Regarding his voice... I saw him with the Beach Boys in Louisville, KY, August 10, 1980, and his voice was shot.  When he starting singing You Are So Beautiful, I thought for a moment he was trying to imitate Donald Duck.  I ended up thinking, no, it just sounds like a bad cold.  And that was well before the throat punching incident.

Agree 100%.  I would love to hear an extended version of this track.  Just as it's about to get into an amazing instrumental section ala Feel Flows it fades out!

Are you saying it's unfathomable that there was still some deep-rooted jealousy happening even though some collabs between them still nonetheless happened? Collaborations and jealousy aren't mutually exclusive; do you think they are?

Steve, I was thinking the same thing.  His voice was deteriorating quickly and would no doubt have continued to even if he hadn't been punched.

  When/if it does appear, I think it will be like many another song  as to the greatness of the jam/ending.  ( in that ten people will have ten different opinions)

I was lucky as someone was nice enough to play it for me, once, which was enough.
As I remember, it (d)evolved into a shrill flutey/keyboard tonal piece with vocal chantingish meanderings. Of Course, if you like that sort of thing, It'll be great

I was under the impression the throat punch happened in the mid-70's.   ???

<<I was under the impression the throat punch happened in the mid-70's>>

I believe it was early 1981, possibly Super Bowl weekend.  Don't remember exactly. 

I'm just quoting the late great Jack Rieley, that there was intense jealousy in the band towards Dennis around the time of the SU song withdrawal debacle, and I assume that he meant Mike was in the middle of that mix.

the real tragedy here is that student demonstration time made it to the album somehow.

Typical snarky sarcasm, can always rely on it here. I didn't mean to imply that Dennis's volatility was not a central factor in the inter-band friction and tension, but his innate sensitivity and idealism, often eclipsed by his more crass behavior, masculine desires and acting out, was eventually thwarted by ML's heavy-handed, controlling nature. If you want to be one of the new breed of MK defenders-at-all-costs, that's of course your prerogative but it's basically a currently fashionable, knee-jerk overreaction to the steady Mike-bashing over the years. Basically, his increasing frustration with the relentless drive towards oldies revue status instead of a coexisting continued progressive element, + the loss of his studio, finally drove him off the deep end and into the arms of the subsance demons.

I was extrapolating from Jack Rieley's statement about intense inter-band jealousy of Dennis's offerings at the time and perhaps unfairly lumped Bruce in with Mike, projecting his latter-day role as ML's flunky, sorry.

I'm not sure where you pulled the Mike Love defending from my post. You have blamed Carl, Mike, Bruce and Al in your various screeds, yet only give passing blame to his alcohol and substance abuse. Dennis had a serious disease that took his life. The disease also hindered his judgement and musical abilities. He was the ultimate victim of his disease, but that doesn't give him a free pass to act like an asshole. His alcohol and substance dependencies had a lethal effect on his personal relationships and his standing in the band. To diminish the destruction it caused, is to diminish Dennis' struggle. He had immense talent.

Go ahead and keep blaming everyone else...

Some people just can't accept that the Wilson brothers liked drugs. Trying to blame a guy's alcoholism on Mike is f***ed up even by this board's standards.

Why would he be jealous? The BBs had 6 (and for a while 7) songwriters in the band, it's only natural that there would be a scrabble at times for each member to get all their songs on an album.

Well, having a discussion of the reasons why a person could be jealous is a positive step; there needs to not be some sort of assumption that jealousy was so far-fetched as to be an impossibility.

As for the reasons why? Well, IMO, to name a few: Mike became more and more marginalized around this time of the band; unlike all other band members, he didn't have an instrument to fall back on, and Denny just with a drop of a hat could attain lots of public adoration (much moreso than Mike) based on his looks/charisma alone (talent aside); Denny had great hair, Mike didn't... not to mention, Mike had a giant "victim of underappreciation" chip on his shoulder based on the songwriting crediting snafu from a decade earlier - not Denny's fault, but it probably understandably made the Lovester more sensitive about a lot of unrelated band stuff.

I highly doubt these were all absolute, unequivocal non-issues, as some might like to think, and as you seem to all but imply. Not trying to rip on anyone, just trying to inject a dose of probable reality into the convo.

It's always tempting to point to a specific person or cause to explain away someone's descent into drugs. I've known people who were casual users who never had a problem and others in the same family who've gone right off the deep end and destroyed themselves (literally). In one particular case, my friend's main reason for getting wrapped up in drugs was that he REALLY liked the feeling of being high....not necessarily to escape any emotional pain, or because he had a hard life, was depressed, etc (quite the opposite, actually) ...he just liked being high ALL THE DAMN TIME and it killed him.

IMO there's also a strong possibility that same mentality killed Dennis.

I pulled your ML defense from "it's everybody else's fault", ML usually being chief among that "everybody else" who are sometimes blamed for some of his frustrations and addiction problems. And I'll admit (have already) that a lot of it stemmed from his own growing dysfunctionality, a lot of which I think arose from escaping the pain of his childhood experiences with Murry. I think that having to deal with Mike daily, even to listen to his arrogant patter onstage, would drive a lot of people to drink though, whether in this case it was partially to blame or not. I don't give a rat's ass how fashionable it is to "love" him now, and I know that he contributed a great deal musically (in reality, not just in his own mind), but I don't care much for the guy. Peace.