The Smiley Smile Message Board

It has been reported that during the sessions for TWGMTR, the BBs recorded Bruce's classic She Believes In Love Again. I sure hope it'll be released someday, perhaps on (another...  ???) future compilation. Since the sessions were led by Brian Wilson (with help from Joe Thomas and Jeff Foskett), I'd love to hear Brian's take on arranging the song.

Wasn't there some brief clip of this version of the song released? Or perhaps it was a brief clip of another song that was worked on during this era? I seem to recall seeing it on a video of behind – the – scenes footage.

It's a killer song, with a part in the bridge that's a clear nod to Carl's Full Sail. This version needs releasing.

Different song.

I'm sure everyone is poised to ask Andrew this, but can't quite bring themselves to do it. I'll bite, however!

So: Andrew, do you mean that the band recorded *another* song called 'She Believes In Love Again' — just like Bruce's song on the 85 album, but NOT that song — which subsequently went unreleased on the 2012 album?

Stupid question, I know: but it just seems so unlikely that there would be another song called exactly that during the TWGMTR sessions...

(Stranger things have happened in BB land, however, so I'm not pre-judging either way!)

Alternatively, did you mean that the song in the bridge to which She Believes In Love Again allegedly nods is NOT Full Sail, but a different song...?

In short, were you replying to NateRuvin or CenturyDeprived?

Thanks!

PS I ask because Bruce's 1985 'She Believes In Love Again' is a real guilty pleasure of mine. It is, admittedly, *arch*-80s fermented curd, prime gorgonzola — but I like it. There, I said it. And I would love to hear a slightly 'de-eightiesed' version, which is what I had thought the unreleased 2012 recording might be until Andrew's comment. I have a feeling a simpler performance (maybe just Bruce and a piano?) would sound better, and wondered it it was an out-take in that style that we might get to hear one day. But of course, if the 2012 track is a completely different song, that puts paid to that idea...

Or maybe he meant it was a different song playing in the background of the Doin' It Again DVD?

Oh — yeah. That's another possible interpretation of what Andrew meant, too!

This is like watching a bunch of Dylanologists having a post-gig drink on a night after he changed one line in a song.  :-D

We'll just need to wait for the man himself to explain!  ;D

Andrew meant that the song playing during the video was not She Believes.

As for the re-recording of the song, it was Bruce who mentioned it in an interview back then.

My understanding is that is was not a "Brian-led" arrangement of the song, but rather a Bruce re-arrangement that was recorded in Studio B at Ocean Way while other production work was going on in Studio A, but it does indeed include the other BBs' singing. Bruce himself commented on it a year later: "We now have a very recent Beach Boys recording of "She Believes In Love Again" about 180 degrees opposite our 1985 released version. It was a possible track for our BB 50 studio album but it now lives in the BB/Capitol Records music vault. The track is completely mixed down to a stereo two track mix." and "As there was time available for me to record during the the recording of the 'That's Why God Made The Radio' album, I gave "She Believes In Love Again" another shot.It's very close to the more resent demo that I sent to Rowie. It's a sweet recording hearing our Beach Boys voices wrapped around my song but most likely it does not really work for our BB 50th album. Hmmmmmm......Perhaps someone will break into the music vaults as they usually do and create a Beach Boys bootleg version."

"... the more resent demo that I sent to Rowie"?

I’m trying to recall the details of the “She Believes…” re-make that were mentioned back then. My vague recollection is that I got the impression that they used Bruce’s original 1985 lead vocal track, then had Foskett re-sing Carl’s lines (if they’re using 1985 vocal tracks, why not just keep Carl’s then?), and then re-recorded the backing and presumably added new group backing vocals.

I recall the mention of the song elicited mostly groans from fans back in 2012, considering we had been waiting 20 years for *new* BB music. I figured part of the reason (beyond the obvious, that it was a remake of a song they had already released) the track may have been dropped from consideration is that it featured a non-BB on prominent lead vocals. Obviously, Jeff was prominent throughout the album on harmonies and even some solo lines here and there. But nothing as out-front prominent as singing all the choruses to “She Believes…”

The backing track heard in the “Doin’ It Again” documentary is indeed different. I’m not sure how anyone determined this, but at some point someone claimed or deduced it was a track called “I’d Go Anywhere” (or “I’ll Go Anywhere”). It certainly sounds interesting (certainly moreso than a remake of a 1985 track).

That's interesting. And it's nice to know Bruce still has an interest in arranging. Here's a question:
Had She Believes In Love Again ended up on the album would Bruce be credited as producer, or would the production credit still go to BW?

I think Bruce would have been credited, just like Paul Faursco (sp) was for DBOTO.

'Xactly.

 ;D

Do you all think this version will ever be released?

I asked Bruce during the C50 tour about the lead vocals and he said that he himself sang the entire song, including Carl's part.

Someone mentioned back in 2012 that Jeff was singing Carl's part (or least sang *a* version during the sessions), but I can't dig through the 166-page thread on the 2012 album and find if that's where I read it.

There's also a random old post I did find where someone claimed that Bruce had previously mentioned on the BB Britain board an idea to re-record "She Believes in Love Again" with Chris Farmer singing Carl's part. I would presume this was back during the era when Farmer was still in the touring band.

I would so love to hear a TWGMTR treatment of "She Believes In Love Again"....It's a very special song to me. Dedicated it to my now wife back when we were 16 in 1986...and here we are today. It would be special to me to hear it recorded in recent times.
For me, it's the Surfer Girl/God Only Knows of the 80s.....the decade I grew up in.

I totally agree with you! I think this song is an absolute classic. The chord progression is brilliant, as is Steve Levine and Bruce's arrangement. But best of all, are the awesome vocals by Bruce and Carl, and of course Mike, Brian, and Al are in there too.

Perplexing. Totally perplexing. Anything is possible, but it's hard to believe that a 2012 version of "She Believes In Love Again" could be an improvement after removing/substituting Carl Wilson's lead vocal, especially when Carl was singing as spectacularly as he was on The Beach Boys 1985, one of Carl's best albums vocally. And, it's also hard to believe that Bruce Johnston didn't have one single new(er) song to offer for consideration for TWGMTR, other than a re-recorded one.

I agree. (Correct me if I'm wrong) But I don't think he's written a tune since his track on the SIP album.

I would like to hear the re-recorded track.

Or it may be that he was not allowed to contribute one new song. Al didn't write anything on the album, either, and Mike probably had to fight to get his one song on this otherwise Wilson/Thomas dominated record.

Hey, perhaps I'm dreaming this, but post-reunion didn't somebody on here find what we all thought was the 2012 version of "She Believes in Love Again"? It was like played in the middle of a Bruce interview or something or other. However, the interview ended up being from like 2009 or something. But regardless, it was definitely a different version. With like just Bruce and an electric piano or something. I figure with some extensive digging, we could find it again. At the moment I don't feel like digging through this board to find it. But maybe later.

Anybody else remember that?


I have to say that I also agree that it's doubtful that a 2012 version of "She Believes in Love Again" would be better without Carl. Especially if indeed Jeff was doing that lead instead. Yuck. However, I would happily purchase it if it ever popped up somewhere. Then again, I'm the same person who actually owns a copy of Bruce's Hot Doggers album and has listened to "The Original Surfer Stomp" like five times in past month. So perhaps I'm not the best person to ask.

Also though, I do have the second how freakin' odd it is that with a studio at his disposal and the opportunity to record whatever he wanted to submit for a new Beach Boys album, he picked a song that the group had already released 17 years ago. Now in Bruce's defense, the song was nowhere near a hit despite being a single, and I'd say I'm pretty sure that whatever reason he had for wanting to re-do it was artistic. I mean, it's not like it's Mike Love covering "Kokomo" for a Dodge dealership.

But it does bug me because it seems like Bruce must have said something around the early '90s where he was gonna record a new album called Goin' Private or something. And record it all in his own studio. Now I'm also pretty sure I remember that he said on the Hoffman board that nothing ever came of that for whatever reason. But then you have him probably in the early 2000s also saying that he was planning on writing some material for movies or other artists or something and blah blah blah. But it seems this hasn't come to pass either.

Now I'm not gonna say that this keeps me up at night or anything, but it's a shame that the guy has stopped doing anything artistically worthwhile. Now I know there'll be some goof on here saying, "well, he doesn't need to do anything! He goes on the road all the time singing super rad Beach Boys tunes and gets to see girls all the time and he's so rich and blah blah blah." But from reading up on him through the years, he does seem to be a creative guy. And he's a Beach Boy. And a Beach Boy that's written a few really nice fuckin' songs. And even if a new song or new album was as big a pile of dogshit as Goin' Public, it would at least be interesting. So it's a shame hehas  apparently ignored a major skill of his for at least two decades.

When I met the Bruce-ster a couple times in 2012, I reminded him of his songwriting chops with Don't Run Away.  I told him it is perhaps the most underrated and criminally unknown BB-related tracks ever, to which he sung a line for me. Dude has massive talent when he wants to show it. Dare I say, that song (along with maybe Be With Me and All This is That) must be the non-BW songs written by other BBs which have the BW-sounding magic fairy dust all over em the most. I wish Bruce didn't underutilize his talent for songwriting though. I wonder if Mike were allowed to record under the BB name (scary thought though it may be), would he and Bruce have teamed up to write some more songs together?

"Don't Run Away" sure is a beauty of a song. And it's a Johnston/Love co-write. Interesting.

I have never heard Don't Run Away. How can I find it?

The first result on a youtube search of "Don't Run Away Bruce Johnston" is this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi93IQ7lO4A

Oh... I thought it was an unreleased BBs song.......

The Best of Bruce & Terry, on Sundazed. Outstanding CD.

I think a 2012 remake of the song would have to be an improvement on the 85 version - the production on that album was awful and ruined almost every song on it IMO. 

I don't know if I'd say outstanding. But it's definitely very worthy for any Beach Boys fan. I do have to say that not being familiar with Bruce & Terry project beforehand, I expected there to be more Johnston lead vocals, and was a bit disappointed to hear a whole lot of Terry Melcher's slightly boring voice on most tracks.

True enough (although I think "Where I Belong" and "It's Just A Matter Of Time" manage to shine through as outstanding, regardless), but I don't see how they could have done otherwise in an era where drum machines and synth overkill were the only acceptable standard for pop records. What we would consider a "normal" or "timeless" production would have likely been rejected by the record label, and sank without a trace even more than it did had it in fact been released. They kind of didn't have a choice.

c-man ~ I really like this song.  When the thread started, I went back to listen to the various YouTube versions, including an alternate released version. (I also like the Symphonic Sounds version.)

And, I agree with what you said about the then very popular drum machines. Today, they sound sort of harsh, next to such a beautiful song.  If a "softer" more mellow live percussion was recorded and tracked into its place, alongside the vocals, with the same timing, I think it would make a great addition to any future compilation.  I'd love to hear the session vocals with Carl.  It is an amazing song.   ;)

Errr....Symphonic Sounds version of what? "She Believes In Love Again"? Pretty sure there was no version of that on that album.

You're correct...My bad...must have been thinking of Disney Girls... :lol

You get one  :beer

The Sundazed Rip Chords CDs are similarly worthy of your attention.

This is a very ironic statement...

Touche puni.

Yes, we'd be dissing a 2012 version for using autotune.