The Smiley Smile Message Board

Okay, in the world of the BBs, some things are considered 100% factual. For example...
1 Brian Wilson is a genius
2 Pet Sounds is a great album
3 There are too many compilations...

Am I right? Those are considered facts among BBs fans!

Oh yeah, and there's another thing--- Bruce makes a fool of himself on stage!!!

So, Bruce is an incredible keyboardist (Hal Blaine said he was the best he'd ever worked with) and he's a proficient bassist. Yet on stage, he stands behind his keyboard, playing it occasionally (Although it makes no sound), but for 75% of the time, he prances around the stage; clapping, waving, pointing, shrugging and laughing oddly (you know what I mean...), he acts like Mike's cheerleader. I just don't get it! Some people say he doesn't play really keys anymore because of old age and his hands hurt. Well, clapping for a few hours every night has gotta hurt your hands even more! Plus, he's been doing this since the mid 80's! Prior to about '88ish (give or take a few years) Bruce would always play crucial keyboard parts or bass! And he played those parts really well. And he'd also occasionally play saxophone or guitar! That takes talent to be such a proficient multi-instrumentalist. But ever since the mid 80's he cheerleads like I said above. And when he actually touches his keyboard, it doesn't take a genius to realize it's inaudible.

SO---
Is there anyone on this board who knows why this is the case? Perhaps someone who has talked to, or even been on stage with Bruce?
I just don't get!

Not only that, but while I'm on the subject--- Bruce is an incredible producer, arranger, and songwriter. So why the hell, would he not do any of those things since, really, the SIP album?!?

I love Bruce, and think he's a talented guy. Anyone who sings the outro on GOK, wrote classics Disney Girls and I Write The Songs, was a session guitarist, keyboardist, and drummer at 15, and won a grammy is insanely talented

SOMEONE EXPLAIN!

His piano playing rreally stood out in 70/71. Hes a fantastic player, its completely true.

I think he's just on autopilot. He shows up, makes the effort to sing a couple songs, and just waits out the rest of the show, collecting his paycheck later. He admitted himself its just business to him.

Its a  shame really. Though have to disagree with NateRuvin in one part - in the couple shows that I've seen him, his keyboard has been audible in all of them. He just doesn't play it much.

Saw Bruce before a show last month, at the mall of all places.   He seemed tired but was gracious and spoke with us for a few minutes and then excused himself.    I was actually concerned that he was feeling tired and didn't know what to expect at the show that evening.   He came out, seemingly full of energy and enthusiasm, smiling, playing the crowd, and did a two hour show with no intermission.   Not the first time I met Bruce but the first in many years.  He is a decent guy and a professional and has shown no others side to me professionally or personally in many years.   the man is 73....seventy three years old!    Same as  Brian.     so what if he leaves some of the keyboard work to Tim or others?     He is co-fronting the BEACHBOYS.   He has nothing to prove.     

Check out this clip of the BBs playing Here Today. Before the band starts, a chord is played on the guitar to give everyone their notes, and Bruce plays a chord on his keyboard. I can't hear any sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4G1ggYLPc

Watching the whole thing Bruce appears to be playing what I am hearing......even watching Tim I see that Bruce appears to be playing....there are two keyboards and a sound man involved

Take a look at this clip. When Mike is talking, Bruce plays the keyboard, and no sound comes out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SialJVHIna4

The keyboard is just there as a prop, just as it is for Brian. That's why I made the mistake previously of thinking Bruce wasn't much of a musician.

I saw Bruce play I Write The Songs with keys completely on his own on the BB's 2004 Tour in Blackpool

Bruce's keyboard is definitely in the mix at live shows for at least "Darlin'", "Be True To Your School", the first bridge section of "Good Vibrations", and, most noticeably, "Disney Girls".

Whenever I've seen M&B I've only ever heard his keyboard on "Disney Girls" and it's on a delightfully horrible 80's EP setting that should have been ditched 25 years ago...

Have you seen Brian Wilson songwriter, 1962-1969? 

When I asked him about where exactly his keyboard is in the mix, Bruce told me this:

"The point of my piano was to kind of keep my voice company. I thought, well, gosh, with some of these songs, If I can boogie and put the cushion under 'God Only Knows,' you won't really hear it unless I stop playing. Then you'll know something's gone."

Wow! Listen to 1:45 how wonderful Mike's and Bruce's vocals blend!

Besides piano, Bruce is a terrific organ player. I love his organ work on late 60s/early 70s BB live recordings. 

I saw Brian live two weeks ago, and his keyboard was surprisingly loud in the mix. During Barbara Ann, he and Scott played a piano solo with Scott on top, and Brian playing the bass notes. It was pretty cool! I think it was obvious that Brian's keyboard was inaudible, but around 2011, he started actually playing piano on stage.

That's pretty interesting. GOK, is actually a song where he seems to  be playing keys the whole song (when he's not adjusting his mic stand of course!  ;D)

Actually, 2009.

And he had been doing featured piano spots since 2000 -- In My Room, Wind Chimes, intro to Marcella.

Yeah, he played on Wind Chimes as early as the BWPS tour.

I saw it a while ago, but it's been a few years. Why?

I can definitely hear him on Disney Girls.

Well, it seems that the post contradicts itself...you concede on Johnston's prior skill and Grammy credentials (which hasn't gone away) and start up with the screaming bold print and snark about the cheerleading nonsense. His role in the band is clarified in that film.  

So, I guess you never saw Wild Honey keys on the Hammond, or the Old Grey Whistle Test of Disney Girls, or Gaumont Palace or the Nearest Faraway Place, also in Paris in black and white film... His position is important for the vocal blend...ever hear the falsetto at the close of Fun, Fun, Fun? Howie is correct.

So he works on keeping the audience engaged? That is a bad thing? Both he and Mike have honed "audience barometers."
Not every audience is a receptive one.  And some are ready to party from the first note.

Think a setlist might get "amended" post-intermission? Sometimes it does. They may add or subtract certain songs based on "reading the audience." If I had to opine, that kind of "reading comprehension" comes with years of performing.  The keyboard is plugged in, you'd notice if it was conspicuous by its absence, but there is also a very gifted keyboardist on board.  

That makes him a Mike cheerleader?  Mike needs no cheerleader.  He must do at least 60% of the leads...so I'm thinking you're getting sucked into a "narrative" that might tend to be "politically correct" on this forum. But I'm thinking it is a false narrative.   ;)

Setlists are apparently in flux show to show.   and possibly post intermission.    Last show I asked the guys at the soundboard for a copy and they laughed and said they didn't have their copy yet.   told me to come back after the show and I could have theirs.    This was only a few minutes before the show.    They did indeed receive their copy before the show and did hand it off to me afterward.   

I think maybe your eyes and ears and these videos may be deceiving you.

In the WOTS video, at 0:13, Bruce plays a chord and no sound comes out.

Comment:  

Bruce is neither a FOOL nor a STAGE PROP.  I spoke with him, in person, and at length about 8 months ago. He is in good health, having fun on the road, and involved in projects most fans don't know about. He may drink a little too much red wine before the show, thus making his movements more freely animated than the normally conservative Bruce would do, but none of this should warrant your description of him in concert.

As far as some kind of explanation is concerned . . .  I think what you need is a Back Stage Pass. That would provide you the first-hand details of how a concert show works so that you would understand. Given that experience, you might possibly withdraw your critical observations. But until then, the view from the audience is not sufficient to render an explanation. ~swd

You just proved my point! Bruce is an incredible keyboard player (as show in the sources you mentioned, which I've seen) and a great singer, so why he walks around the stage clapping is a mystery to me.

As I have said before, I am a HUGE fan of Bruce. I think he's incredibly talented in singing, writing, arranging, and playing many instruments. What I don't understand, and I'll say it again, is why he chooses to clap, point, and adjust his mic stand, instead of playing keys. Also, 2 more things---
1. It's an honor to be able to speak with you SWD, I'm a big fan of your work.
2. I would LOVE to get a back stage pass, but they are very expensive!

He puts his hand over the keys for sure, I don't think you can say he played a chord. I seriously doubt Bruce would intentionally play an audible chord during Mike's speech for another thing.

That's true. You're right, I don't think he would do that. Again, I'm not trying to bash Bruce, i'm just trying to debunk his actions on stage.

I watched the BBs entire set from backstage two weeks ago and Bruce is definitely playing.
Not sure why he chooses that 1980s Yamaha DX-sounding patch but his job seems to be mostly supporting the vocals and having a great time as their main keys player does the heavy lifting. Nothing wrong with that as Bruce does a great job either way.

Incredibly nice guy and very much enjoyed spending time w/ him and the band.
"Disney Girls," as always, is a highlight of the set for me.

Not Bruce, but quite the opposite occurrence a keyboard player whose keyboard plays itself ( :lol) , check out the MD of the 4 Seasons Band on 43 seconds CHRIST how obvious is that they employ backing tracks AND sadly Frankies vocals are obviously canned !   

I would also say his piano playing stood out in '68/'69. For example, the Olympia show in 1969 is one decent example. 

COMMENT:

Least We Forget.......The Romantic Bruce Johnston

>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4m5SfdZ_n4

The stage antics ... maybe a little too much pre-show wine.


Good Listening,  ~Stephen W. Desper

Old Grey Whistle Test was such a fabulous show, and this is a damn fine performance. Bruce's on-stage persona is no more or less goofy than most classic rock performers. With a whole stack of musicians, his keyboard is really no more necessary than Brian's has been since he's had Darian. But it wouldn't make sense to have him just stand there doing harmonies, although his voice still adds plenty to the vocal stack. And there are other sort of front-men who do the same sort of thing. Paul Simon, for instance, has his guitar strapped to him through every concert even though he has a cadre of guitarists standing behind him for decades.

Actually, it would perfectly alright for Bruce to just stand there at the mic singing, as Mike himself does. And I would rather hear Brian playing that Darian any day.

Out of the dozen Paul Simon shows I've caught, I've yet to see him use that guitar as an inaudible prop.
Every show has featured stellar playing.

Also, since we're on the topic of BBs on stage;

How often is Al's guitar audible? It seems like it was throughout the 60's (Except Little Deuce Coupe from Concert LP  :o)
In the 70's, I think Al's guitar was still audible but with the addition of more members he could focus on singing more than playing.
But by the 80's, Al's guitar is inaudible. Some say this is because he is such a "perfectionist". Thoughts?

I remember seeing them in '86 and he started out "Come Go With Me" by himself on the guitar.  Then the band came in and it vanished.

When we played with him in '06, I wanted to know myself!  So I actually leaned in on the amp to hear what he was doing.  And it was like "oh, it's the Beach Boys!"  It fit so well you didn't really notice it.

That said, I know there have been times he has been taken out of the mix for one reason or another.  But there are also times he's right there.  He does a really cool part on KTSA on the Fridays 1980 performance where it's so locked in with the clavinet you don't really hear it until Carl takes a solo. 

Thats really interesting. He a lot of the time, to this day, will give the opening few chords to Come And Go With Me, but when the band comes in, his guitar fades. I'm assuming Al has some sort of pedal, where he can mute and unmute his guitar.

Bruce played his keyboard in Marbella, Spain last year. Here is an example in Please Let Me Wonder, at 3:15.

https://youtu.be/JqIG65vYeLQ

I think Al has usually been in the mix to some degree, with no doubt specific exceptions. He doesn't seem shy, especially in recent years, about just *not* playing his guitar if he doesn't want to (or doesn't need to, or the song doesn't call for it, etc.). So I think usually, when he is actually playing, he's audible to varying degrees.

Al is actually a much more solid guitar player than he has sometimes been given credit for by some fans. I've told the story too many times, but at the little charity gig I saw him do in 2005 with Steve Heger's backing band, Al not only played guitar throughout, but did leads on stuff like "Fun Fun Fun" and "409", etc. He played them with the same authenticity that Dave and Carl did frankly. I think that "sound" is ingrained into them to some degree.

On C50 and with Brian, he can be heard on stuff like the little lead fills on "Sail on Sailor."

I think Al has always been more about the vocals. I don't sense he's a great improv guitar player (see the circa 1981 Dick Clark Anniversary Special for a comically sub-par solo on "Rock Around the Clock"), but as the secondary guitar player in a non-guitar-heavy band, he's surprisingly solid. I think he could do a lot more, and has on occasion (the ESQ solo acoustic version of "California Saga" for instance).

I don't think there's a pedal.  I think he simply turns down with the knob.  I believe one example is on the '73 IN CONCERT album where for a second the high guitar part on the chorus of "Heroes and Villains" comes in really loud.  That's Al's part on the song (I think it's one of the few places you can pick him out on the album) and I think he turned up at that point, and overshot the mark (which you couldn't easily eliminate on a mix).

I'm also pretty sure he can hear himself monitorwise at all times (except if he's turned down or stopped playing), whether or not he's in the FOH mix or not.  The soundguy may simply take him out of the mix at parts of the show to keep it clean with so many guitars.

I seem to recall that's not him on the ESQ California Saga.  C-Man could confirm or deny.

There's been speculation at times on the board about why Bruce doesn't play more (I've wondered myself), particularly since he was so integral in the late '60s/early '70s, and one interesting suggestion (which came from a third hand source) was that Bruce actually isn't that good at singing and playing simultaneously.  Which I actually found kind of interesting, and plausible - though he plays some astonishingly good bass lines on the late '60s live footage we have. 

I've always liked the fact that when Bruce mimes a bass part, he always does it very convincingly.  The "Pipeline" clip is a stellar example.  No way he played that, but he really makes it look like he did.

Bruce uses his keyboard to accompany himself when he sings--no different than a singer would prefer to be strumming an acoustic guitar when he/she sings.  Bruce's keyboard feeds primarily to his own monitors--not necessarily to help fill out the band's sound.

 His keyboards were 100% audible during "Disney Girls" during C50.  

He can be heard singing and playing White Christmas recently. So I think he's at least proficient enough. He plays and sings on many occasions, including the Hotel 1990 video.

I think if he's not more audible to the audience, or plays more constantly, is because he doesn't need to. But his keyboard, as noted, is probably more audible through the monitors than to the public most of the time.

BTW, there's a Hampton Beach 1989 concert video without Carl (they do Runaway and Jumpin' Jack Flash). I remember at the time watching it and wondering if Bruce's keyboard was plugged at all... Then, during the Barbara Ann solo, a cheerleader slips on the wet floor (it was raining heavily) and supports herself on Bruce's keyboard. Bruce kept the instrument from flying away, not before the nubile dancer involuntarily played a huge "plunk" with her forearm. So yes, it WAS plugged.

Wow that's crazy! Do you know where I could see the clip?

I had it on vhs ages ago. It was 7/4/1989 I think.

Hey Stephen, many thanks for the reminder of that OGWT show - I have watched this many many times over the years and quite possibly my fav BB's solo clip ever (or even any BB's live clip), superb dramatic performance by Bruce and sure does bring a tear to the eye

In all fairness Bruce probably could have played it (listen to his 'Rhonda' Bass playing at Knebworth), but was it not the great Joe Chemay on the record ?

OH AND Additionally, I believe (IMHO) Bruce is by far the greatest all round musician of the 6/7 core Beach Boys

Most keyboard players tend to use a sustain foot pedal, and sometimes a volume foot pedal. Not sure if Bruce is but he could turn off the volume to his keyboard that way, in between songs. Not unusual.

Thats definitely a possibility.

  If Bruce were to play more keys, it would cut into his mic stand adjustment time.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

COMMENT:

One of Bruce's finest arrangements -- and if you're unfamiliar with this album, suggest you spend the change and enjoy one of the most wonderful orchestral productions around. This is a "big city" arrangement ... like something you might experience at Radio City Music Hall.  ~swd

>>>  http://www.amazon.com/Symphonic-Sounds-Music-Beach-Boys/dp/B000009NH7

Thanks for sharing this with me! Sounds interesting!

I think all the comments and examples here of Bruce's musical proficiency accents what the original poster may have intended. He is very talented, but chooses to act like a cheerleader on stage. When I saw the Beach Boys a few years back a friend of mine who knew them as that 80s era Full House type, pointed to Bruce and thought his clapping, shrugging, etc. made the band look like a cheesy band a la Sha Na Na.  I get that soem like the rah rah part of the band, but to some it does seem to rub others the wrong way.

Hello? Bruce plays

Think of it this way: he's Brian's biggest fan, and a cheerleader for Brian's music. There, feel better now? :)

That's what I was trying to get across with this post! Everyone knows Bruce is super talented!

That certainly is a better way to look at it.

Understood well. He has been called professional in this thread. I am sure in many ways he is, but to many he would just seem like a sidekick who is mailing it in. Dare I say his stage performances are Davy Jonesish?

Who cares? I think he should perform any way he sees fit. Bruce waves too much, Brian doesn't play enough, Al's guitar isn't high enough. Blondie's guitar playing is too loud and too jam-ish. Jesus F. Christ are we never happy?

No need to freak out, I thought this thread brought up some gold points. You don't need to jump into every thread to talk about how terrible the fan base for mentioning this of that.

I do that every once in awhile, you know? My favorite band gets constantly trashed and bandied about in a forum that is dedicated to the band members and the music. Once in a while this sh*t gets to me. Ok, continue trashing. ;)

The point to the thread is: Bruce is an incredible musician, why doesn't he show that trait?

That's not trashing

Being an incredible musician has nothing to do with your persona on stage. Now, if he is in a studio waving his hands and not playing, that's another story. His role on stage is a cheerleader, sing, and play chords. Al does a similar thing thing with Brian. Tim is the main keyboardist in the Beach Boys, just like Nick or Probyn are the guitarists in Brian's band.

But jardine is an amazing singer - his voice has aged the best of anyone in the band. He leads are always a highlight. Bruce can't sing leads very well however, so you'd think he could display some musicianship instead.

See first sentence of prior answer. Jardine does not sing every lead. He mostly sings background vocals, just like Bruce. Jardine doesn't have to show great musicianship in concert. Not what he is there to do. Also, like Al, Bruce co-fronts the band.

EXACTLY.

The trashing is a just a byproduct?

The question is why they don't really don't play their instruments. Sure, Al's plays a bit on Sail On Sailor, but is otherwise completely buried in the mix. Bruce (apparently) is audible on songs other than Disney Girls, but I don't hear it. But Al is a solid surf guitar player and Bruce is the best keyboardist Hal Blaine ever worked with. So why do they not show off their instrumental talents more often? I understand they don't HAVE to, they have great backing bands.

While I think Jardine as the best voice of the surviving BBs, I think Bruce has the second best. Sure, he gets a little breathy and raspy, but vocals are still pretty incredible for a 73 year old. Although, he is an insanely good piano player and a pretty good bassist, so he could do one of those things.

The Sha Na Na analogy is spot on. I was also thinking about when I saw Paul Revere and the Raiders at an outdoor show some years back in Seattle; Paul Revere spent the vast majority of the show aping and clowning around on stage and encouraging the crowd to clap their hands, get up, whatever.

It's whatever you're into, ultimately. No one is disparaging Bruce's studio abilities. His current on-stage role seems to diminish those abilities in my opinion.  A shame really.

If you dig it, then bully for ya. To me and some others, it comes off as cheese.

I agree. Your answer alone could have saved us 2 2/3 pages in this thread.

Because they don't need to. They have very good to excellent backup musicians to do it.

But why use backup musicians when those two guys are talented enough to do it themselves?

Because Bruce and Al and Brian have done it that way for over thirty years. They prefer not having to worry about playing and singing at the same time, so they can concentrate on their vocals. Especially at the age they are now.

That's a very good point.

Yes...excellent point. Bruce's job description has changed over the years from worker to Senior Management.

Another minor thing that we are making a major issue. Even Carl handed off lead guitar parts to Ed Carter. I mean it is there bands and they hire whoever they want to play and sing whatever they want. If they all decided that all they wanted to do was stand around mics and sing, that would be fine by me.

I would wager that Bruce has NOT done it for 30 years, unless he became a hand clapper around 1988. I guess when I go see a band my preference is to see a solid unit, not cheese. How would everybody respond if after a while Darian became the new Bruce? Then they could hire someone behind the scenes with the right chops to play the music. The point is, does Bruce add to the show or make it fluff?

What if from now on Bruce just comes out and stands beside Mike singing and clapping for the entire concert? Did you feel that way about Dennis doing similar things on stage during the years that he couldn't play drums? Dennis may not have been cheese, but I'll bet girls looked at him as cheesecake. ;)

That's what I'm trying to get across. If Bruce wants to stand in front of a mic like Love, that's fine by me. I just don't get why he stands behind a pretty much inaudible keyboard and claps, adjusts his mic stand, waves, and shrugs.

It may be the same reason that Brian sits behind a piano; comfort.

I guess when you fellas are Pop Music legends you can do it your way.

Except that Brian plays his piano for the length of his shows and is audible.

Brian's piano is certainly audible at points, but for much of the show, at least for his show at Ravinia this year, it would get lost in the mix in between all the other keyboards and sounds. Brian, like Bruce, will also play for part of a song, then stop to do hand gestures, occasionally returning to it if he so chooses.

Of course, Bruce also still has the facilities to play more keyboard parts regularly (which he does, on Disney Girls and Good Vibes and several other examples listed here).

Are you sure about that? How many times have people complained that Brian sits like a lump behind an inaudible keyboard. Go take a look on Hoffman's board and see how many believe just that. Maybe Bruce needs to fire his tour engineer. So, who you think is telling him to make Bruce's piano inaudible?

Dennis was a Wilson.

I was at the Ravinia show, and I could hear Brian's keyboard for the majority of the show.

I'm sure about Brian's piano. I stood feet away from the man and heard him play piano with the band, it was audible and it was a treat to hear him play and sing. Whatever people believe on Hoffman's board about this issue means jack squat. It's a non-issue as of this recent tour in 2015. Not every song uses every instrument on stage, that's basic common sense. And not every song has a full-blown piano part either, so on some songs he's not playing full voicings throughout the whole song on every section any more than another instrument would sit out when they don't have a part. But when he played, it's audible.

I'm sure about Brian's piano. I stood feet away from the man and heard him play piano with the band, it was audible and it was a treat to hear him play and sing. Whatever people believe on Hoffman's board about this issue means jack squat. It's a non-issue as of this recent tour in 2015. Not every song uses every instrument on stage, that's basic common sense. And not every song has a full-blown piano part either, so on some songs he's not playing full voicings throughout the whole song on every section any more than another instrument would sit out when they don't have a part. But when he played, it's audible.
[/quote]

You're right! And he sounded great! It seemed he had lost some of his piano skills in the early 2000's possibly because of over-medication, but at the Ravinia show, his piano playing was stellar. I love when they would film his hands playing, and he still knew all of the changes.

Congratulations. You've just written one of the single dumbest posts I've read in the history of this board.

Yes. I am sure about that, as someone who has attended at least 10 BW solo shows over the last 15 years. Since 2009, he has consistently played keyboards throughout his shows. Before that, he would play for at least a couple of highlighted numbers. In terms of how audible his playing is, he's part of the general mix. Sometimes, he stands out, sometimes he blends in. As most keyboard players would.

And I have no idea what people on Hoffman's board have to do with anything. This has nothing to do with belief. It has to do with what Brian is actually doing, and what people are actually seeing. It's not opinion. It's not something that's fucking voted on.

Actually, take a look at this clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BfubHGxz3E
At 0:15, BRUCE is clearly PLAYING the keyboard, but the only things that are audible are guitar and vocals.

It may not necessarily be about Bruce playing or not. Perhaps it is that some feel his stage antics make The Beach Boys seem more like a dorky pop outfit instead of a respected rock n roll band. Kind of like the cheerleaders era. If that is part of the overall entertainment package, then fine. Foe my tastes, it makes them look like the Happy Days band at Arnold's.

Yeah that's true. I just wonder why they schlep around this multi-thousand dollar Korg keyboard if Bruce barely touches it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFn21CmgFU

Bad vocal aside, those that doubt his piano playing need to take a look at this.

Note - I fixed the quotes in the above comments so the right authors got named, there was something odd going on earlier with the HTML codes in another post, I'll keep an eye on it and fix where necessary. Sometimes the quote function gets a little quirky.  :)

[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFn21CmgFU

Bad vocal aside, those that doubt his piano playing need to take a look at this.
[/quote]

To be honest, this is one of the most magical clips I've ever seen. So intimate. Brian seems  somewhat relaxed, and is leading the band, singing lead and playing piano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLB_a0acHI

The guy filming this was so close, that you can clearly hear Al's guitar, but at 0:22 see him turn his volume down, making him inaudible.

And that's one of the elements of this 2015 tour that made it a special experience. I took this photo from my perspective at this performance weeks ago. It was early on in the schedule, the full band wasn't even there, and I wasn't expecting "Love & Mercy" as the closer. So it starts up, just Brian on piano and Brian doing the vocal, and it was indeed magical to be standing there watching and hearing it up close. Same with God Only Knows earlier in the set. So my thoughts also are along the lines of on one hand seeing *this* in person, and on the other concerning ourselves earlier in this discussion with what folks on the Hoffman board are saying? What? Wow.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bwphilly3_zpstkdh3jvy.jpg)

At the Seattle show brian made sure his piano was just as loud as Scott and darians, and during the show asked to be turned up. Not only does brian play piano, he wants to be heard.

The Bruce thing;

Many, many, many years ago the Beach Boys concert experience became more of a party than an exibition of musical talent.  That's not a slam, that's a compliment coming from me.

I think Bruce just finds joy in being a rock star... not necessarily in being a musician or a song writer.  That's a lot of hard work... the guy playing keys for them has to really be up to snuff to keep everything sounding great, he has a lot of responsibilities... and really Bruce probably doesn't want all that responsibility.

It's honestly a hell of a gig.  You travel the world, even get to be on t.v. from time to time; everywhere you go there's nothing but happiness in all of these crowds, thousands of happy faces the whole time you're on stage... it must be a rush.  You've got a live microphone and can say or do whatever you want, you meet pretty women of all ages before and after the shows, you meet fans who explain to you that they've listened to every interview you've ever done, bought everything you've ever sold...

I think he just enjoys the show.  Probably much more fun than the instruments, or the songwriting....

He could probably do it all, but would enjoy it less with the added work, and it wouldn't necessarily make the show any better.  

Doesn't mean he's not still a talented musican and songwriter, he just doesn't see the need to 'prove' anything to himself regarding it.  He probably gets along well with Mike and enjoys his company, a friend he's had for 50 years.  

I mentioned this in another thread, I have a theory that Bruce is one of those guys who gets along with everybody, you can tell because of the way he says caustic political stuff that offends some people.  In HIS mind, he doesn't get offended easily, so he says stuff like that not realizing other people will get upset about it.  That probably explains why he can get along with Mike so well, anything weird or jerkish Mike does Bruce probably has the personality where it doesn't offend him.  


To be honest though, I love all these guys, I can't say any of the Beach Boys don't have angelic voices or are really cool guys, including Mike and Bruce specifically.  Great guys.  

Thank the Lord i'm able to see the beauty in that clip, what a special thing, and something most people would miss.  

You made a lot of good points, and I agree with you. When I posted this, I saw Bruce's onstage antics as goofy and annoying as hell, but now reading your description, I get it.

This year yes, but not in the past. For how many years is this Brian playing/not playing been going on? Come on, now! People at Hoffman have just as much right to an opinion or talking myth, as we do here. Sure, you and I know what is going on with Brian on stage, but many others don't really know or don't want to hear the truth. As for Bruce, you didn't answer the one important question: Who is making Bruce's piano playing inaudible at concert venues? They should fire his ass for such insubordination; unless Bruce himself has requested this to be done.

Another striking talent of Bruce: I find amazing how quickly after he entered the band Brian was relying on his ears to direct recording sessions from the booth while the rest of the guys were on the studio floor. Brian sure trusted Bruce's ear for recording.


And I agree with Ron's comment. All of it.

I think Bruce has as much fun onstage as Nelson Bragg from Brian's band. 

And I would agree! I just love watching Nelson!  :love

Do you think Bruce can hear his piano throughout the show? In his monitors perhaps? Or does their sound people turn his keyboard down?
I also wonder this-
Does Bruce clap, wave, adjust his mic, shrug, and play so little keyboard- because he doesn't know what he's doing? Bruce is such a knowledgable musician so I doubt it, but it is a possibility.

What are you impyling here? Let me you ask you since you have been asking all of the questions: What are your thoughts about why he does all of these things?

In my mind, being a "keyboardist" for your band, and clapping and waving like 75% of the time, makes you look like you don't know what you're doing. Does Bruce know what he's doing? Probably, he's a smart guy. But if he doesn't, he makes it obvious.

OK, so they have been at this since 1998 together and is that is 18 years of not knowing what you are doing? Not to mention 1965-72 and 1978-1997. Now, if you owned a company would you have someone work for you that long who doesn't know what he is doing? This smells of trolling to me. I think Ron has given you a pretty rational reason why Bruce's persona on stage is what it is.

OK, so they have been at this since 1998 together and is that is 18 years of not knowing what you are doing? Not to mention 1965-72 and 1978-1997. Now, if you owned a company would you have someone work for you that long who doesn't know what he is doing? This smells of trolling to me. I think Ron has given you a pretty rational reason why Bruce's persona on stage is what it is.
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I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to have an honest discussion about a member of the BBs. Isn't that what this website is made for? Fellow BBs nerds discussing, and at times debating, over our favorite band.
Look, I agree with Ron, and I'm a big fan of Bruce. Notice, I said he probably does know what he's doing. I said he possibly doesn't know what he's doing, as a theory, not my opinion as fact.

When WAS the last time Bruce really played keys on stage? If memory serves me correctly, he is doing some real playing at the Knebworth 1980 gig. Even then, though, he has to adjust that mic stand frequently.
As for Brian, most of the times I have seen him on tv in recent years, his hands don't even touch the keys on the keyboard in front of him.

I don't think Bruce has really played keyboards since approximately 1983(ish)...
Brian didn't play keys until about 2010. On his NPP tour, he's been doing more piano playing than singing, and on several occasions, he's demanded to be as loud as Darian and Scott! And Al has been playing lead on Sail on Sailor!

The real question is… What on earth would Bruce do if he wore a Britney Spears-esque mic clipped onto his noggin, and did not have a mic stand to adjust? Would he do ghost adjusting to a mic stand that's not there anymore (similar to how amputees have ghost feelings in limbs that have left the building?)

I don't think the mic adjusting has anything to do with him trying to kill time - if you look at videos from 1980, when he was still one of only two keyboard players on stage, he'd still stop playing and adjust his mic fairly frequently. My guess is that it's just something that he's always picky about.

 Are there any examples of Bruce doing lots of mic adjusting back in the day when he was playing live bass in the band?

Why does this matter? It feels childish to continue this for 5 pages. Wasn't Ron's explanation enough to cure this debilitating disease? I take it that it must be from boredom. ;)

Playing consistently AND singing consistently does require some effort. As Brian's keyboard playing onstage became busier, his vocals became lazier. Bruce probably doesn't want to carry that burden throughout a show anymore.

But forget about the live shows. What the hell with all those Carl-written songs in the 1985 album in which he gave the guitar solos to somebody else?

Yeah! Carl was an incredible guitarist!! He should've played those solos. Although in the songs he wrote for BB85, he played rhythm guitar and some additional keys.

That is true, and Carl was never up onstage with a guitar strapped on but not played - his guitar was always heard.

I agree.  A lot of the posts on this board now come across as childish.  Less and less discussion about the music. How about the new Analogue Productions releases or the UMe vinyl?  These topics quickly drop down the board in favour of pages of 'discussion' like his thread.

Nate are you saying Bruce has a form of Alzheimer's?  If not, then what are you saying as you've said he's a very knowledgeable musician. Have you heard Bruce playing over the years?  Do you seriously think he doesn't know what he's doing?  Do you not think for a second he could switch on his piano and play all the songs?  Do you think he woke up one day and could not remember any of the songs? Why are people even asking these questions?  He chooses to not play, as Ron said, because he doesn't need to anymore.  He enjoys the other stuff and the red wine as SWD said!

You're first post was fine but then you seem to want to flog this thread like a dead horse.

I've always found that very odd. I suppose he learned from Brian early on that it's A-ok to replace yourself with another musician, but at the same time, it would've been cool to hear what Carl could have played on them. I wonder if there are any scratch demo versions with Carl playing BB85 guitar leads that then got replaced?

You make me out to be a malicious child, trying to do something wrong for this board. I simply asked some questions! I want to discuss something I've always been confused by. I didn't know that was such a crime. I didn't say anything about Bruce. I said things could've been possibilities, but I never said they were facts, or even opinions! You're putting words into my mouth, and in fact, you're being more childish than I am.

Boy, some people cannot admit when they are wrong or have a made a bad decision. Has to be the times, I suppose.

I would be the first to admit I made a mistake, if I believed I did. But I come on this site everyday to talk about the BBs and that's what I was doing.

I noticed on another thread you've now said Dennis' keyboard was inaudible and asked how good a player he was.  A pattern is emerging.  Listening to Dennis' music I'd say he was a very good keyboard player. 


What is your theory/opinion on Bruce?

You're entitled to ask questions by all means but when you get your answer you and some others on here recently don't seem to want to let it go.  So many people looking for agendas and hidden meanings, reading too much into what is said by various people.  Let's try to get back to the music and appreciate the band and all the music they've made over the years.  That's all I'm trying to say.

Must say this surprised me. I seem to remember years ago he kind of said he was a 'Pacifico' beer occasionally kind of guy.

It seems like to some it's not cool to question Bruce's stage antics. If he took it up a notch and just danced and waved with no mic, would that be allowed to be discussed? Probably not, because Bruce is a skilled keyboardist. I think many missed the point of the original poster's questions.

For the record I would prefer Bruce to stand behind his keyboard and play and sing more, like he did pretty much up until 1998.  But I understand why he doesn't.  The OP has also been given an answer by Ron which he said he could understand but then went on to ask more questions relating to Bruce not knowing what he's doing.  That's bordering on trolling.

Bruce is coasting to a large extent and unfortunately in my opinion it takes away from the legitimacy of the Beach Boys show as it's really only Mike that is left holding the baton (before 1998 there were 4 fully functioning Beach Boys on stage in a musical sense, now there is one).  However, I'm not knocking the show they put on as a whole.  The touring Beach Boys are still well worth seeing and they have a great band set up.

This is where OSD and Smile Brian come in...

Not 6 pages worth. So far, it has not been about the antics so much as questioning his capability, which we know that he is a very capable musician. So, what's the freakin' point?  You guys are beating a dead horse.

Agreed!  ;D

Actually it was most respondents who erroneously answered the original posters questions by stating what a great musician Bruce is. If the post had been read correctly, it would have been noted that Bruce can play well. Nothing wrong with discussing it. Cue bass solo.

We have beaten a dead horse.
And I'll repeat, I'm not trolling!
Also, I have mentioned thinking Al, Bruce, and Denny have all been inaudible at times. I think it's a huge possibility. They are all extremely talented. I think Al and Bruce choose to coast, and it's a possibility there were times Denny wasn't able to play due to intoxication. I would've let this thread go to rest, if people didn't start accusing me of being a troll.
If you look at my actions on this website, you can see I try to post meaningful and well mannered posts. I really enjoy visiting this website and speaking with you all about the Beach Boys.

And I hope you keep coming back and posting as I can tell you obviously love the Beach Boys and the music and that's what it's all about at the end of the day.  ;D