The Smiley Smile Message Board

A few, off the top of my head:

-Little Bird (just before the lyric "Dawn, bird's still gone")

-All This is That (near the beginning of the song just before "I am that")

-I'm So Young (so many of them, especially just before the tag starts)

-Here Today (all over the place)

Of the songs that were written by Brian (but played by studio musicians), wonder how many of these (and others) were Brian's ideas, or were spur-of-the-moment ideas from studio musicians.

I don't know just about fills but a few bass parts stand out for me too (among the many).  Sloop John B when the bass comes in.  I Was Made To Love Her and Here She Comes.  There are others, too many to mention on things like Salt Lake City and I Just Wasn't Made For These Times.  I'd love to know who came up with them all.

I also agree with the ones you posted.

there's a particular bass sound that the bb's used from good vibrations on... that fuzzy buzzy distorted sound (carl apes it on long promised road, etc) and i would love to know what the method was on getting that. just plain overdrive? playing through a guitar amp? a specific pedal?

These are all wrong.  The correct answer is anything played by Carole Kaye.  Next Question.

Here Comes the Night. Some great, great quick fills. Who's playing?

Don't Talk (Put Your Head On Your Shoulder) seems carried by the bass, with the strings and vocal going on top. The drums are very light.

Wild Honey, during the instrumental break.  So funky.

This is one of the main reasons why I love this song. And yeah, the bass has a heartbeat-like sound effect.

Whatever Happened seems to have a few bass fills; sorta Pet Sounds-y?
Also the bass during the chorus of HV

In Child Is Father of the Man, the eight bass notes between the piano section and the chorus, from 0:49 to 0:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPz_PgFwpRU

(There's also a single bass note at the end, preceded by a cello note (I think))

Given the time (1966-67) and the place (Los Angeles), if the sound is what you also hear on Fire and Cabinessence from the Smile sessions in '66, I'm pretty sure that's a Gibson Maestro FZ-1 or FZ-1A fuzz pedal. They first started appearing more around '63, there are actually photos of one near George Harrison during a She Loves You session at Abbey Road where they reportedly attempted to use it on the song but scrapped the idea. It's the fuzz pedal that you most likely hear on 9 out of 10 psychedelic and garage records from 65-67, the best example to my ears being "Incense And Peppermints" from Strawberry Alarm Clock where Ed King (later of Skynrd) used his Telecaster through an FZ-1A into a tube amp for that classic tone. That to me is *the* ultimate fuzz guitar tone, and perhaps to other players as well since several pedal makers have done clones of that exact sound in pedals like the "Peppermint Fuzz". Keith Richards *also* used the Maestro pedal on Satisfaction, even though the time and place might have suggested he would have used a Vox or other pedal more specific to the UK guitarists (among them Jimmy Page still doing sessions with the fuzz tone as his calling card), but Keith's choice was also the FZ-1A (or FZ-1, basically the same except to purists and collectors).

Keep in mind too, there were some custom built fuzz boxes out there too, one that comes to mind is McCartney's tone on Think For Yourself. It's been said that was a box built for him, others have said it was just one of the Vox pedals, etc. Just search some of the Beatle gear sites, they'll have every possibility dissected. Same with Hendrix, he was using pedals custom built by Roger Mayer like the "Fuzz Face". I have one of those, it does have a different character and a different way of breaking up the tone and trailing off than the FZ-1 boxes which you can actually hear if you know what to listen for.

But chances are, unless specifically mentioned by the original player, if you hear a fuzz tone on a record cut in 1966 or 1967, especially in the US, chances are they were using the Gibson FZ boxes. They were ubiquitous to some degree at that time.

I always liked the bass on "Can't Wait Too Long". That track is hypnotizing.

not exactly fills, but the bass on A Thing or Two really hits the spot. again... do we know who is playing?

To answer the questions about who plays what, to the best of my knowledge---
Wild Honey- BRUCE
Here Comes The Night- BRUCE
A Thing Or Two- BRIAN

Right on the first one, but I doubt the third and especially the second. A better guess would be Ron Brown or possibly Carl, both of whom played bass elsewhere on that album.

thanks for the info, guitarfool, you rule!!

If Brian didn't play the baseline for A Thing Or Two, he definitely wrote it. It's a very BW-esque baseline. With those high notes in the verses, it reminds me a bit of Good Vibrations.

That's Not Me.   I always zoom in on the bass.     Glad you asked.   always wanted to share that and see if others like it  as much as I do

Yes, I've no doubt Brian wrote all the bass lines to all his songs, at least until the mid-'70s, and probably most of the time after that - especially whenever the bass line is integral or especially "Brian-like".

Yep, from the moment I heard it. And based on aural evidence and how that track was recorded, I'm of the opinion Brian played both of the basses that constitute that part. One is a Fender bass played as an overdub along with a 12-string part which I believe is Carl, the other I think is a Dano bass played on another overdub with another 12-string, again played by Carl in my opinion.

I know what CK has said about this track, but I think we all know enough not to take that at face value. I also know Brian has said there's an arco upright bass overdubbed on there, but clearly he was thinking of "I'm Waiting For The Day", which does have such an arco overdub. I've heard the entire basic track session for "That's Not Me", and in addition to revealing Terry Melcher and Wilson Brothers cousin Steve Korthof as the likely players of the two tambourines (Terry slaps while Steve shakes), in the between-take chatter we also hear a discussion in which Carl (playing the 6-string lead line on the basic track) mention how he will be overdubbing another part - obviously the 12-string, which of course he doubled. Another reason I don't think the 12-string was overdubbed by Glen Campbell as stated by CK - there's an obvious little "mistake" where the 12-string is sounded between riffs. It sounds cool, and it's fine that it's there (charming, even) - but I just don't see a pro like Glen doing that, at least without immediately stopping so that he can start over again. Likewise, if you focus on the overdubs (highlighted on the relevant SOT disc), you'll hear that the bass performances are much more Brian-like that CK-like: the Fender part is played with a thumb (not a pick), and the thumbing does not have the consistent level of attack you'd expect of a pro - but rather that of a kid from Hawthorne who came from the garage (and that's not a diss in any way, shape or form - I totally dig the bass performance on this cut!). Likewise, the other overdubbed bass, which I believe is a Dano because of that tell-tale "edgy" sound - I think that's Brian using his thumbnail as a pick, which is something Bruce has told me Brian would often do instead of using a real pick.

Craig, this is absolutely fascinating stuff. If this level of detail is what we can expect in your upcoming sessionographies, we're in for a real treat!

It is, and you are. :)

This has driven ms crazy for years... I have always read that Don't Talk has a heartbeat-sounding bass, but at no point do I hear such.

When I think of the rhythm of a heartbeat sound, I think of the sfx at the beginning of Huey Lewis' The Heart of Rock and Roll... That "boom boom-boom boom" sounds like a heartbeat to me. Can someone point to a timecode in Don't Talk where I may be missing something?

The part where Brian sings, "Listen to my hea-a-art" - the descending bass notes behind him sound like a heartbeat.

Same with the drum beat in Aren't You Glad.

So what you telling me Craig is that there is more to the That's Not Me tracking session, then what Capitol has released back in 1997 for the Pet Sounds Sessions and what was released on the SOT set? The only things I remember are the parts of someone fooling around with the organ, count ins and the someone asking Carl if he has ever read his own guitar book. I hope we get to hear the rest of it some day!

That someone was Terry Melcher. At another point, Dennis jokingly commands Steve Korthof to fetch him an orange soda. It's clear they're all on the studio floor, and no one else seems to be there. Bruce is directing the session from the control booth.

glad to read C Man's lucid exposition on this track I love so much.

PalinDRONE-tone:

"Egad! - a base tone denotes a bad age"...

Agreed!


I'm relieved to learn that it even exists!!  I used to bug Mark about it all the time and could never get an answer whether there was anything more.  It was not available to me when I worked with Alan either, so I wondered if it might be lost, and wondered why the SOT people didn't have access to it.  So, whew.  A new holy grail.


I sometimes wonder if I'm not going nuts--I swear I hear a few times on the basic track 6-string a bit of a chorusing effect, to the extent that I've wondered if that was doubled (o/d or even live)...but other times it doesn't sound like it at all, but it's enough to make me pause.


Totally agree.

<<I sometimes wonder if I'm not going nuts--I swear I hear a few times on the basic track 6-string a bit of a chorusing effect, to the extent that I've wondered if that was doubled (o/d or even live)...but other times it doesn't sound like it at all, but it's enough to make me pause.>>

I wonder if there's a slight Leslie effect on that 6-string?

That 6-string on the basic track, mostly buried on the mono mix, sounds so weird to me. It's so metallic, sounds like brand new strings with a really heavy gauge, it's like all tension and no slack, a thud with no resonance. At the lowest note of the phrase it sounds like a baritone guitar. I, too, hear a slight chorus-type effect or doubling. It's slightly out of tune too. But so then what's producing the low sympathetic ringing out notes or whatever it is at 2:04 here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWgE8MuAYYU

It's weird how sloppy and amateurish this backing track sounds when heard isolated. It wasn't until i first heard it like this that i realized how different this track is from the rest of the album. But it somehow sounds much tighter and slicker with all the vocals on top. Those voices really glue everything together. It's ironic that in claiming that she plays on stuff that she didn't actually play on, Carol sometimes makes herself, to those who know no better and believe her, seem less professional of a player, this song being a prime example.   

I guess Al had better things to do that day than to go in for this session. Craig, has it ever been determined what the "clip clop" instrument is and who plays it?

I apologize for changing the thread's subject even further. It's only natural this sort of thing happens though, right? 

It wouldn't be the first session that he was on but didn't say much/anything.  And maybe he doubled that guitar at times.....

Is the description "clip clop" percussion an accurate one? Unless I need to relisten (which I do not mind at all...), it sounds like a wood block with a single "pitch". The clip-clop percussion usually involves two differently pitched blocks being struck. And as far as what exactly was making the sound, knowing Hal had a massive collection of percussion toys and oddities along with the standard instruments it could have been anything. Or something completely off the wall like the Sparkletts bottle or soda cans proved from other sessions.

The clip-clop effect has also been done by playing coconut shells that have been cut in half and I believe even pitched somehow by the size of the shells. But if it's traditional orchestral or studio performance, chances are when you hear it on a recording or on stage it's either the "Temple Blocks" or a woodblock. Listen to something like Sleigh Ride as done by the Boston Pops every year, the horse gallup coming from the percussionist is the temple blocks.

Here's a video demonstrating the differences between woodblocks and temple blocks in the percussion section. See if either one sounds like the Pet Sounds track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1soGwaPwyCo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1soGwaPwyCo)

Yes, I had checked out that online demo of wood blocks & temple blocks some time ago, when I first began investigating the source of the percussion sound on "That's Not Me", but had decided it wasn't either of those - to me, both of those options sound lower in pitch, and resonate more - I believe the sound on "TNM" is more shallow, as if they were "mini" temple blocks (and I only hear one tone, to answer your question, although it could be two tones hit simultaneously, producing the overall tone). I would rule out Sparkletts water jugs or orange juice cups, because the first of these would be too "deep sounding", and because Brian specifically told me it was a "wooden percussion instrument". I think you're right in that Hal's percussion collection was massive enough to accommodate sounds we would seldom or never again hear!

I really think it's a "standard" Fender guitar that Carl is playing (probably his Jaguar, maybe a Strat), with new strings (which can slip out of tune real easily). Going back to my notes from hearing the full tracking session, I see that there was a lot of tuning going on throughout the first two takes, with Carl trying to get in tune with the organ, and prior to Take 3, Bruce tells Carl "You're A's a little flat"...then throughout the next several takes, Carl is again trying to get his guitar in tune. Also, Carl is obviously playing on the floor, through an amp, so it's possible the mic on the organ's Leslie speaker picked up the guitar amp, especially on certain notes that were played a little harder, causing them to "phase" a bit - especially if there's also a bit of bleed coming into the drum mics. As for the "doubling" and low sympathetic notes at 2:04 - I think that's quite possibly the organ; at the start of the session, before the guitar comes in, Brian is definitely playing that riff with one hand while holding down the chords with the other. It's the exact riff that Carl plays, so if Brian is still playing it, which I think he is at least in certain parts, we would indeed hear it if Carl's guitar drops out for a bit; and if Carl is still a little out-of-tune, which I think he is, the result would sound like sympathetic notes.

And it was a six-pack of strawberry pop that Dennis requested Steve Korthof go to the store and buy him!

One other thing that's very important to note overall, and I'd recommend those who have never recorded in a full-blown studio to watch that percussion demo video I posted: Note that when the musician strikes the woodblock(s) and the temple blocks with the mallet, the sound echoes through the room. As many external effects as can be added, and as many echo chambers and send-return signal flows as can be set up or were set up in various studios, sometimes you get lucky and tap into the natural acoustics of the room, specifically one that sounds "live" versus the deadened rooms that became the rage at some point among studios and producers who were all about separation and bone-dry recordings of individual instruments. People ask what made the "old" recordings sound like they do, I'd say the fact that producers like Brian allowed the room itself to play a major role in shaping the sound, and sometimes as a result of things just by good fortune lining up a certain way to allow the sonic interactions and reactions to happen. Spector too. They captured it when it was hitting good, because you could line up the same players in the same room the same way a week later and it wouldn't be the same sound for a variety of reasons.

When that player hits the woodblocks, you hear the natural ambiance of the sound bouncing around that room wherever it is, and it's similar to what Brian had happen with those accordions on the Wouldn't It Be Nice session at Gold Star - The shuffle rhythms they were playing just started bouncing and pulsating through the room, whatever happened to line up that day in that room created an otherworldly effect that is purely acoustics minus slapping on a bunch of effects and plugins as is done in 2015.

I love that kind of thing.

Doubling sounds better when one of the parts is slightly out of tune or slightly off in its intonation or phrasing, no matter what instruments, otherwise the effect would be lost. That's why manual doubletracking for those recording enthusiasts who have DAW's is the best way to get a more authentic "vintage" sound no matter what you're recording.

But combining guitar and organ, or all of the other sometimes more bizarre combinations on Pet Sounds - That's what Brian took from the jazz and pop master arrangers like Mancini and Nelson Riddle. Those textures - Absolutely stunning on certain parts in the way the combinations work to create "new" sounds. I got a lot of that from Mancini and his Peter Gunn soundtrack work, whether Brian listened to that or was influenced by it or not. It's the same effect through orchestration that makes Pet Sounds brilliant.

Back on topic and tying it in, the break on "Here Today" slays me every time. That bass...

I wish this board was like this thread all the time!  ;D

Yeah, i initially hesitated to describe it as “clip clop”, but went with it anyway because it’s en easily identifiable term to people here. It’s certainly not the quintessential clip clop sound like the cups on GOK. But sometimes we get lazy and use that descriptor for any wooden percussion instrument on a BW production. I appreciate you calling that out.

So to be more specific, it has a bit of a scraping sound, meaning it doesn’t sound like the beater is hitting a flat surface, but rather dragging (only a tiny bit, very quickly) across something like a corrugated surface (kind of like a guiro, though i’m not at all suggesting it’s a guiro). Actually, as i listen to the backing track now, i don’t think it’s being struck with a beater at all, it sounds instead like something that's being struck against itself, similar to, say, the way that finger/hand cymbals or rhythm sticks produce sound by the instrument being struck against itself. I feel like it’s a somewhat familiar, every day sound that i’m just not placing. If it was temple blocks (as on IJWMFTT) or woodblocks (as on ITBOMM), i don’t think this would be such a mystery, because it just doesn’t sound like either one of those instruments. It doesn’t have that hollow, resonating tone, this is a short, “thin”, much sharper kind of sound.

Whatever it is, like other little touches on Pet Sounds, the way it was recorded and blended into the arrangement makes it such a unique and captivating sound. It just sounds so damn good, it’s one of my favorite sounds on any recording. Similar to that tambourine on the verses of WIBN—it may just be a standard tambourine (maybe striking a hi-hat?), but it sounds like God is playing it in heaven. Gosh, “Pet Sounds”…it’s so fitting of a title that it’s almost kind of dumb, as if a little kid came up with it.

C-man, i think you may be right about those notes at 2:04 coming from the organ. A slip of the left hand to be more precise. Fascinating how much it sounds like accidental low rumbling from a guitar.

I think those notes are a slip of the bass pedals, which Brian would not have been super adept at.

I still really wonder if Al was there and just doubling the first few lines in the first verse or something.  Which seems weird but plausible.  Really sounds like two guitars playing there, but not really so much later in the track.

To me, the "clip clop" has always sounded most like horse shoes being banged on cobblestone.