The Smiley Smile Message Board

...arrived today, like getting a timely and appropriate gift on Brian's birthday. I'm perfectly aware that many of you take issue with Denny Tedesco's misleading inferences or information concerning who played what and when on the Beach Boys tracks (and the whole Carol Kaye tango), but nevertheless I find this to be an extremely entertaining and informative rockdoc, and after seeing Love and Mercy, I'm sure there will be a resurgence of interest in the real Crew.

Best of all? The back cover says "6 hours of extras!" I love these oral histories and 60's studio sessions anecdotes, so that's a goldmine of riches for me.

I once posted my reaction to this film on this board after getting a bootleg from a friend years ago, but when I wrote to Denny and found out it was a work in progress seeking funding for the music rights, I sent him a check immediately, and then again on Kickstarter. Worth the investment and then some. Congrats to him on such a monumental task of fundraising and persistence of vision.


(https://40.media.tumblr.com/c2799002e9f3a724462986df04934a53/tumblr_nq9ofmWptf1trpswuo1_500.jpg)

But but but, they get too much credit!

Who says they get too much credit?

I agree.  Three inches of DVD cover is too much credit.  They should only get 2.75 inches.

 :lol :lol :lol

Edit: Sometimes I just feel like being a butt.

They were slouches, man. The Shaggs put down tighter tracks than those amateurs.

And the people said, "Amen."

Amen.

If Murry had discovered the Shaggs in 1969...not only would there have been world peace, but there would have been syncopation the likes of which Al Jardine would have been humbled by.

I have nothing more to add to this.  This is just so awesome of a concept.

I can imagine the sessions now...

"Dot, syncopate a little. What are the words? Sing it!"
"My pal's name is Foot Foot-"
"Alright, sing it!"
"My pal's-"
"NO! My pal's name is Foot Foot, boo doo doo bah BAH dee dee dah dee DAH!"

I have an essay in the works discussing the parenting of Murry and Austin Wiggen.

Of course, the line "There was only one band behind them all!" is misleading & inaccurate, as well. On any given session it might be a totally different lineup of WC musicians than the next! 

On one session, it might be:

Bill Pitman & Tommy Tedesco - Guitars
Ray Pohlman - Fender bass
Jimmy Bond - Upright bass
Leon Russell & Al de Lory - Keyboards
Hal Blaine - Drums
Frank Capp - Percussion
Steve Douglas & Jay Migliori - saxes

And on another, it might be:

Glen Campbell, Barney Kessel & Billy Strange - Guitars
Carol Kaye - Fender bass
Lyle Ritz - Upright bass
Don Randi & Larry Knechtel - Keyboards
Earl Palmer - Drums
Julius Wechter - Percussion
Plas Johnson & Jack Nimitz - Saxes

But, I understand the need for a pithy, eye-catching slogan!

I am curious, is the DVD and or bluray region free?

And even then they were never a "band." They were session musicians given a blanket nickname by Hal Blaine. :lol

How many Elvis sessions did the Wrecking Crew play on? I suspect very few.

I'd have to find my copy of Ernst Jorgensen's book on Elvis' recording sessions but Elvis did record often in Hollywood and several times with members of the Wrecking Crew. The soundtrack to Blue Hawaii and the 1968 Timex TV special come to mind.

Watched disc 1 of the special features last night - really wonderful. Fleshed out a lot of the stories that only get a passing glance in the original. These people are just wonderful and Denny really did his homework, obviously, in seeking them out (Lalo Schifrin, for example!) And you might be happy to know that Mr. Tedesco includes the full session credits for every song credited in the main body of the film, as a distinct part of the extras - including, I might add, the Beach Boys' songs, with Carl and Al listed as playing on Fun, Fun, Fun, etc.

He also printed the name of every Donor and Kickstarter, and has a section called "Dedications" which allowed contributors who paid a little extra to dedicate a song to someone they love with a message - surprisingly touching.

Heven't seen it, so,  are there quite a few BBs songs in the main body or just FFF? And, do the  credits agree with what is stated on this board for each song?

Given they're on the AFM contract, that's to be expected. The question must be posed, has he used the correct AFMs and not - as he did on the website for over three years - something the band had no part of.

I noticed that they seemed to put Brian Wilson on a different level than anyone else! That's expected in a Beach Boys or Brian Wilson doc, but to hear them say it on this was awesome!

Got my Kickstarter DVD today!   Life is good.

I've got a question for PS - sometime early this year, this was said in another Wrecking Crew thread:

He was not sure, but since you have it arrived & watched it, can you tell whether it's a GV video we've seen already or sth. totally new?

So Brian and Dennis aren't? They're on the AFM contract, too...and more importantly, they're definitely playing on the track, as well!

Details Details. Actual facts diffuse with the narrative of the WC replacing the BB's on all beloved big hits, even though the BB's actually played instruments on the majority of them...which is a fact BTW, break down the top 40 BB's hits and it's factual that they played the core instruments on more of them than they didn't.

Yes, I was happy to see many important performances and the musicians who did them, such as the guitar intro on "Let's get it on." I was disappointed that Nokie did not play the 50 theme song; he could have, and sometimes it was just disappointing to see the urge for studio perfection justify the illusion of artistry. I respect all these musicians, but ultimately I do NOT like the ultimate effect of the film on the perception of the BB. The overall impression the casual viewer would get is that the BB are the early Monkees--totally unfair to Dave, Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, and Bruce--Mike's cool sax as well I suppose. Remember, these studios pros, as far as I know, never created songs, however many parts they invented. They chose to be hired guns, and they were paid well. If they wanted to be rock and roll stars, they should have gone through all the creative and interpersonal hell that bands go through. On the Professor's big list of historical injustices, the WC not getting enough credit is ranked low. 

Altho I definitely get your point, it's a TAD unfair to such excellent musicians who indeed had huge roles in creating many of those songs they played on, coming up with parts, adding their own flourishes. Lots of those songs definitely weren't meticulously scored out in detail. They did some stellar work and should be celebrated as well -- The Beach Boys are in no danger of losing any credibility due to doffing our caps at these great talents. Altho yes, it's annoying to be tarred with an early Monkees brush, certainly!

Any musician can write a song. I'm talking songwriters of note. Carol Kaye was a noted songwriter?

ETA : I forgot Jim Gordon. He wrote the piano coda to 'Layla' and co-wrote 'Rock 'n Roll Stew' for Traffic.

So, it's 'noted' now? Instead of, "never created songs?"

Many of those folks were/are noted recording artists, composers, producers, arrangers, improvisers, and educators, who also did session work.

They were not specially bred drones kept in lockers at the musicians union office until summoned by wunderkind producers.

I have met  musicians who can't write songs. Plenty.

As usual, my brother Ontor and I meet in the middle and agree. Yes, they deserve praise, fame and endless respect--up to the point at which they--intentionally or not--start to re-write history to promote their own martyrdom.

And for those of you who cite Leon Russell and other who were artists, this only makes my point for me: they decided to take the risk, and their fame rests on their accomplishment as performers. We all know Glen Campbell and Leon  from their hit records.  Their fame is unquestioned.  It's the bitter malcontents who try to erase BB musical artistry from history that trouble me. Without Hal, the BB corpus would be in tact.  I lose my wealth because of a divorce, so I say the BB never played their own instruments? No.  The opposite of classy.

I enjoy Wrecking Crew lore as much as the next guy, but they were never centrally important. I mean, after the 60's, they were pretty much eased out of the rock recording business, and did it matter?

The Stax and Muscle Shoals session guys, now, were important -- they wrote, arranged, and produced the records.

Those bumpkins?






kidding.

How were they important and not those of the so-called Crew who also wrote, arranged and produced?  Please.

Both groups of musicians had a great run with some phenomenal artistic achievement and commercial success.

I will say that the LA guys were more versatile. They had opportunity.

I was watching some of the bonus material on the DVD today, and Dean Torrence was telling the story of "Surf City".  He said Brian played him "Surfin' USA" on the piano and told him it was the Beach Boys' next song.  Then he said he had another song that he'd lost interest in and didn't want to finish and offered it to Jan & Dean.  That was "Surf City".  Of course, it became a hit, and Murray was livid.  Murray accused Jan of being a "song pirate" and told him not to come around anymore.   So, he shows up at a Beach Boys recording session wearing a pirate costume complete with eye patch.   Murray told Brian to make him leave, Brian refused, so Murray left. 

Sorry for the bump, just a head's up.

THE WRECKING CREW will be coming to Netflix on July 30th.

Trolling Murry like a boss.  EPIC!

Someones put part of it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hEKwM_5_vQ

I bought the DVD and watched it today.  I enjoyed it, it seemed a little sloppily put together though, there wasn't much of a narrative.  But it's still a must see for any fan of music from that era and I learned some new facts.

Good news. I'll be watching for it.

Anyone know of a region-free or region 2 release?

Anyone know if it's still being sent out? It's now one month ago since they announced that the DVD's would go out - still haven't seen it  :(

Thanks for that link!

You're the best!

It brought back detail from when I had seen it a few years ago. 

Carol Kaye presented herself very well.  Those "stills" show her being very au courant, and having a "seat at the table" among the men, and fully accepted among them.  It seems that they may have used some of the Leon Russell clips for The Union film with Elton John.

Thanks again! One for you!  :beer

Put it on ice...I know it's early... :lol

Gone!

Ahhh well. Bring on Netflix! :lol

Just saw this the other night (via Netflix) and I really enjoyed it.  I can see what has bothered folks about it - regarding the inaccurate generalizations over what the Beach Boys (and maybe other groups) actually played on or not - but other than that it was pretty cool.  They were very complimentary towards Brian himself anyway.   

Didn't know this was on Netflix, I'll be checking it out asap!

Post above said from the 30th. Are you in the US?

Yes, I am in the US.  I got it through Netflix on disc (not streaming).  I just got it this past week and watched it.  I don't know if they have it in their streaming library, but it was on their mail discs. 

Aha!  The DVD Netflix version...I just have the streaming...hope they have it soon... ;)

Okay, just got "The Wrecking Crew" on DVD via Netflix.

"When the Wrecking Crew -- a secret, high-level, government-sponsored hit squad -- is dispatched to clean up the gang-infested streets and take out a violent crime lord, plenty of Hong Kong-style action and martial arts soon follow."

First of all, I didn't know Ice-T and Snoop Dogg played on any BB songs.  And actually, I didn't hear any BB songs in the whole movie.  :poke :poke

Disappointed, yet hardly surprised to see no mention of Dennis in the "Wrecking Crew and Friends, Drums/Percussion" section, yet Mickey Dolenz gets a nod ??? The same lack of recognition for Brian in the "Arranger" section.

Oh well, at least Brian was spoken about glowingly...

Is this now up on the US Netflix?

Sure is!

Thanks. Hopefully on other countries Netflix soon.

It's been on axs TV a couple of times. 

So checking their schedule out might get you a viewing or two!  ;)

I have finally bothered watching it via Netflix.  In ten second increments.  With a squeaking toddler in one ear and a complaining preteen in the other ear.  And I have to say, Beach Boys got mentioned more than I expected, but less than I was hoping for.  If that makes any sense?

As someone who's seen the movie, I understand that to mean that the title "The Beach Boys" was mentioned numerous times but their musical contributions were summarily dismissed. Denny Tedesco perpetuates this myth by asserting that most of The Beach Boys mid-1960s instrumental tracks didn't feature any of The Beach Boys where the opposite is true. Carl especially played extensively on those two albums.  In fact, Today and SDSN include two and three tracks respectively that don't feature any members of The Wrecking Crew.

God Bless you watching, with a toddler and a teen! I caught it on my online-only Netflix, so I've seen it about a dozen times. The BB's are headliners but Cher and Nancy Sinatra did great interviews as well. They were part of this scene and did great work in that era's TV work as well. They weren't a one trick pony.

just watched this.     WOW!      What is the story on why this is just now coming out?   Opening credits say 2008.  I've heard about this for sometime now but had no idea it was actually made some time ago.

I loved it.   Been a fan of this group of musicians for many many years.    What a treat to watch it tonight......and again tomorrow.   WAY better than I anticipated.   

The movie played some festivals in 2008, I believe, but because of music clearance issues, it couldn't be released more widely until this year.

There was actually a Kickstarter a couple of years ago to help pay those fees. The film finally made it to theaters this spring, and to disc and streaming this summer.

Despite what that 2008 date may suggest, Danny T. has almost certainly added some elements in the years since, notably the Leon Russell interview.


That's not really true, as least as I see it. For one thing, Carl is included in the film -- at least visually. He's in a lot of the pictures of BB recording dates used in the film. For another thing, the narration is very careful not to say that the session guys played on every BB song, or were the sole players on the group's records.

And as for emphasizing the BB's instrumental contributions -- that's not really the job of a documentary about session musicians, is it? The guys (and gal!) were hugely important to BW and were instrumental (ha!) to his greatest records.

Wirestone thanks for the concise background on the delay of the release.  I suspected such an explanation.  glad to finally see this.  lovingly done IMHO.

Sure, Carl is featured photographically (twice, and out of context) during The Beach Boy's segment. When the intro to "Fun, Fun, Fun" is played we are instantly presented with an image of Glen Campbell. This may lead the viewer to believe that it was Glen played the intro when in fact it was Carl as confirmed by the liner notes to KAEOS and by Glen himself in an earlier issue of Beach Boys Stomp. I realise that Glen did contribute 6-string bass to the track but if there was a time when an image of Carl should've been shown, it was at that moment.

Also, Denny Tedesco could have rephrased what he said with something like "A number of The Beach Boy's mid-sixties instrumental tracks featured The Wrecking Crew" rather than casting the group's contributions aside.

Actually, it's "I Get Around" that Glen plays the 6-string bass on (doubled on an overdub by Ray Pohlman). Glen's not on "Fun, Fun, Fun" at all.

Thanks, Craig. My bad.

As a documentary i found it to be rather mediocre and a bit on the amateur side (the production value, editing, research, and overall presentation of the material), but i really enjoyed watching it regardless, including hours of the bonus material, even if i had already seen so many of the clips online over the years. There wasn't really anything revelatory, but its strength lies in rounding up the principals and getting them to share their anecdotes and memories. Sadly, these musicians have steadily been leaving this earth and will only continue to do so in the next decade or so, so i think it was an important film to make, sooner rather than later. That said, it felt more like seeing some old friends again rather than watching a good documentary, which i suppose is not necessarily a bad thing. I loved seeing Tommy, Hal, Carol, and Plas sitting around a table reminiscing, telling stories and jokes, laughing. Same with the Goldstar staff. Glen Campbell is a joy, really charismatic. Cher has a great spirit and i was surprised and very touched by what a strong connection she had/has to all the musicians considering she was a sort of inside outsider in that scene. Leon Russell, i could watch hours of him speaking, what a guy. Earl Palmer is not having any of that sh*t, as was expected from him.

I do think Denny Tedesco was remiss in not dedicating more time to Phil Spector and any time at all to Jan & Dean, as those two were pivotal in bringing the WC into prominent use with more popular/rock & roll artists in the early days. But what really bothered me about the film is that most casual viewers are no doubt going to walk away believing that the Beach Boys didn't play on most (or even any?) of their records. I'm afraid that myth is not only not going to die anytime soon, but it's probably going to gain even more traction with this movie reaching mainstream audiences. The director really sold the group short as musicians, and although i was expecting as much, it was still frustrating to actually see the myth perpetuated in the finished film. I also thought some of his editing choices were bizarre. For example, while "Good Vibrations" is showcased, he pans across a photo of the Surfer Girl LP cover? Uh, ok. Is that supposed to demonstrate the incongruency between the public image of the band and the "reality" of the studio situation? It's a baffling choice no matter how much you try to justify or contextualize it.

The most bothersome aspect of the whole BB/WC thing, of course, is that the story could easily be told factually without taking any credit away from either the band or the session musicians. Those musicians played on the near entirety of Pet Sounds, a record universally hailed as one of the best and most influential albums of all time, and Smile, possibly the most mythical unfinished album. It's not like there isn't a journalistic angle to work this story. It's there. And in that case, i don't see what the controversy is. I don't understand why or how anyone would hear horns, woodwinds, strings, mallets, orchestral percussion, bass harmonica, accordion, and theremin and think that the band members could and would play all those instruments. Was it really revelatory and disappointing to Dick Clark and the general public back then to learn that five young guys in a garage band from Hawthorne, California weren't playing the "auxiliary" instruments on their records? And going back to 1964 when the crew started appearing on their records with more regularity, was it surprising that a band who was releasing 3 albums per year while touring the globe would occasionally use session musicians to augment their tracks, especially given that their leader was staying off the road to, you know, produce records? 

I agree.

I have a con amore project of mine, Cue Castanets!, a blog solely devoted to dissecting the Wall of Sound. I've just posted an interview with Don Randi of the Wrecking Crew specifically focusing on their work with Phil Spector. I think you and others on the board will dig it - and hopefully other posts on the blog. Don briefly mentions his time with Brian in the studio as well:

www.cuecastanets.wordpress.com

Look out, Carol's on the rampage again!!

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=168440386566810&story_fbid=281253788618802

There's a very good discussion going on via The Hoffman Board. Check it out before the Gorts remove it.

She loves the word "phony", don't she ?  ;D

Mind, she's right about Kent Hartman's book.

Her post in that link is from 2012.

And Leon Russell is in the film now.

Yes I think more footage has been added since the post.

That being said, I think she might have a point about Tommy. That part of the movie felt off to me.

But she really needs to let the stuff with the name go. DT even addresses that, with some folks making Carol's point and some disputing it.

She's only hurting herself here.

For what it's worth...I skimmed over that post. And, for every gender or racial or sexual preference group who breaks into a new sphere, there is always opposition.  The glass ceiling is alive and well.  What comes to mind is the females who were abused in the military branches, or in police departments, and in medicine and law, being called dummies, and not as smart or "taking up a "man's job"  in those studios.

And as much as I have felt this "story needs to be told" there is likely some merit in what Carol has been saying.  And Tommy's son has told an important story but from "his perch."

Carol Kaye might be 100% wrong on certain songs or dates, she played on, but I see there appears to be a genuine affection that Brian has for her and her work.  And, over time, that does not appear to have been diminished.

So, Carol might be off the mark, with performance dates, but I am becoming more convinced that she experienced "gender-based discrimination and a hostile work environment."  Just sayin'.  ;)

I wonder if Carol felt this way, why she would participate in the roundtable "reunion" in the movie in which she talked to Tedesco and Hal Blaine as old friends and why when Hal brings up the origin of the term "wrecking crew" in said discussion, she didn't argue it?  Okay, so maybe a lot about the musicians is mythologized, I don't doubt that, but she did little to dispel any of those myths when she was interviewed for the movie.  Hey, whether it was true or not, it would have made for some good drama!

They were (those musicians) reunited, apparently because of the father's life-threatening illness, so "time was of the essence."  And likely "bad blood" was put aside for that purpose.

If Carol had objections or had a different recollection, of that era, it is highly doubtful that it would have been addressed in the film.  The story was important.  

But, the devil is in the details.  It would be hard to defend that there was no discrimination in a male-dominated industry.  That is just ridiculous.  

But, that movie was someone else's work, with someone else's perception.  The movie was about the session players role in the music industry from a "general" standpoint and not a "particularized version" of the dirty linen in the closet.  It was designed to open the door to the discussion.  

Once the door is opened, she can walk through it, and be specific about the details. And maybe get her own independent film going about the challenges women faced in that same situation, to break the glass ceiling in the industry.  

The ball is in her court.  If she takes the high road, she could create an opportunity. And not alienate people in the process.

Brian seems to really like her, so she must have done something right.

I don't think Carol is lying at all about the discrimination.  There's no doubt that the music world was an ugly place for women in the 60s and 70s.

There is a jump-cut immediately after Hal's explanation for the name. It's likely that she did argue it, but the footage was left out.

Couldn't cover this better, so why try? Like you mention, the most baffling thing was Good Vibrations playing over the Surfer Girl cover. I understand the visual appeal, but that was truly a weird choice. It was entertaining, but it did come off very amateur at times. Also, Mickey Dolenz equating the Monkees lack of playing to the Beach Boys and being unchallenged was disappointing.