The Smiley Smile Message Board

From Beach Boys Britain, typos intact.

From the B104 FM Clasic Rock website
http://www.b104fm.com/rock_report.htm

OFFICIAL BEACH BOYS RARITIES SITE MAY BE UP AND RUNNING BY NEXT MONTH

The Beach Boys' new official beachboyscentral.com website featuring previously unreleased material, may be up and running as early as July 4th. The group's chief archivist Alan Boyd posted on the unofficial smileysmile.net fan message board that he's currently putting the finishing touches on the site. Although he didn't go into details, he did mention that the group's unreleased material would be available both as digital downloads and as CD's.


Boyd has been cataloging and cross referencing the group's extensive inventory for the past several years. He's listened to almost every one of the group's multi-track master tapes and home demos. There's still no word as to what exactly will be uploaded on the site, although the group has amassed several hundred outtakes in their 45 year career.

beachboyscentral.com could (and hopefully will) be the best thing since sliced bread. My credit card is ready!

Credit card -- what's that?? I sure hope they'll take checks or money orders!

hopefully they'll take paypal.

Even though I'm an adult, I have a controlling mother who will not allow me to have a credit card, so I hope they accept money orders.

Or, you know, let all the tracks be downloaded for free.

Utopia is still just a dream...

That made me smile.

 :-\   Paypal would be a nice option.. hopefully  Alan will look into that...
maybe this site will let some of Dennis's unreleased see the light of day... wow
getting excited about that already!

 ;D

What is it with this site?

Its been COMING SOON since June.

All signed up and waiting just for the final ok from Dennis and Carl maybe?

Cheeky  :P

Get ready for all the thousand hours unedited sessions of Ding Dang folks!!
Sure to be a blast!!

 :lol

I feel like I've been checking that site daily for 6 months. I hate to sound impatient but what's going on?!

I'm with you.

.. what's the hold up? .. or do I need to make an imaginative guess (not).

I think there is a lot involved here.   Just tracking down all this stuff, cataloging and archiving is a huge job! And that is just for starters.

First, I imagine all the band members have to agree about what tracks will be available.  For example, don't expect too many unreleased Smile tracks.  Brian may veto them for ‘his own reasons’, while other members may see a bigger profit looming with a future Smile boxset.  There may be tracks that one band member just hates, or finds embarrassing, and that one gets vetoed.
Also, there are the issues of songwriting royalties, publishing, performance royalties (I know little of these kind of legalities except that there is a lot of red tape involved).

Secondly, master tapes need to be tracked down.  A mixed dub in the library will be inferior to a new mix of the master tape.  Or simply, there are sessions in the can that were never mixed at all.

Third, high quality MP3s need to be made of the songs.  Also, if album versions of these tracks are going to be available as well, then there is all ‘that’ to deal with (Mastering, art wok, what goes on what cd)

Fourth, creating an online store that works well, maintains copyright protection and prevents illegal downloading and trading of these tracks is no easy task.

Frankly, I am surprised that it is moving as fast as it is.  This is a groundbreaking move, as I know of no other major band that has ever done this kind of thing.  The Stones, Beatles, the Who - nobody else has pulled off anything like this.

Bravo Alan Boyd!

ah, it'd be great to hear what their doin once in a while    ::)

www.thewhostore.com (courtesy of Eel Pie
www.thedoors.com  (seems to be undergoing a revamp... try here: http://www.rhinohandmade.com/Browse/browsedoors.lasso)
www.neilyoung.com/archives/fillmore-east/fillmore-east.html

Can anybody add any others to the list?

Hey Wee Helper, have you actually gone to these sites and looked at what's there?  There is no comparison to these and what  beachboyscentral.com is looking to do.  The closest would be "the Beatles Anthology", but an online version.  Neil Young has talked about this for years, but strickly as CD/DVD releases

This phase (MP3s) can be skipped without any loss, who would want them anyway.

I personally would.  :-\

Personally, I'd take mp3s over nothing any day of the week.  I just wish they'd hurry up with it as I have some money burning a hole in my pocket, although this is Beach Boys World we're talking about.

As for copy protection, I hate to say it but good luck with that.

Hi SRH

I have indeed been to those sites but must be at a disadvantage as I guess I’ve missed any posts in which Alan’s stated just what’s going to be available at Central.

My point was simply that the BBs aren’t the first group to have such a facility on line.

The main site I guess that most closely embodies the point I’m trying to make is that of The Doors, which has been releasing a slow but steady stream of archive live recordings for years, on CD.

I was hoping BBs-Central.com would also be releasing its material on CD (or DVD, DVD-A…) –  I don’t really want a bunch of ephemeral downloads; I’m a collector and want something tangible to drool over!

But so far, anyway, BBs-Central.com hasn’t released anything and while I fully appreciate it’s something that won’t happen overnight, that is, currently, the BIG difference between those sites.

From a link on this site to a South Bend Tribune Mike Love interview yesterday. A reference was made to why Alan Boyd is having trouble setting up Central (see bottom of page)


...A soft-spoken and congenial man in conversation with a warm voice that displays none of the nasality for which he's known as a singer, Love becomes a little testy, however, when asked about whether he, The Beach Boys' corporation or the band's original label, Capitol Records, has considered releasing material that remains unreleased.

"There's a reason things are unreleased, because you felt what you came up with was better than what was in vault, so all this scavenging to me is a little bit desperate, desperation from a record company," he says and then softens his response a little. "Once in a while, you find something that could be redone, worked up a little."...

What's that mean? He doens't want their concerts being released?!?

And why would he be against the record company releasing songs out of the vault? I thought Mike Love was the uber-capitalist who's all about business. He, and the rest of the band, will make money selling compilations that the fans want to hear. More product to sell, more money. He almost sounds like Brian, there.

What does he want to do? Keep rehashing the same greatest hits compilations? How about a 30th anniversary of Endless Summer Deluxe CD/DVD package. That'd be really bitchin!

Also, the tours and concert stage was always his domain. You'd think he'd be proud to show what he and the band did without Brian. Keeping the name alive and all.

I see his point. Things are in the vault for a reason. That's why God made bootlegs. To release these for public consumption disturbs the official catalog, and makes the artist feel that the prime work isn't available, or all that is being represented. It's a bigger issue than money, or keeping the name alive.

Jealously, obnoxiousness, and plain ol stupidity are part of your list? Remember, some of these tracks didnt make it because they didnt make the 'vote'...and were shot down to go with more conventional tracks.

I wonder what the other interested parts think about it. Brian has a releasable set of Wilson/Norberg demos, he doesn't have to go through BRI to do anything with them, but they are still sitting in the vault.

EDIT: And the Usher demos, the Paley recordings...

I agree. Mike Love does not know what he's talking about. The BB are well known for being perhaps THE most foolhardy band in regards to what they release and don't release.
How many great tracks have come out in the last 15 years - Can't wait too long, Soulful old man sunshine, we're together again, games two can play etc., not to mention the great bootleggings of Smile, Adult child, Landlocked etc.
It may be that the best stuff has already been bootlegged but thats no reason not to release it officially and in good sound quality.

I would love SACD mastered mixes of Adult/Child and Landlocked. I think its time they remaster every album and especially the bootlegged stuff in the vault. That would be worth purchasing then anymore 'best of' compilations.

I think the trouble is that they have no sense of objectivity regarding their unreleased material whatsoever.

They've been too close to the unreleased stuff for too long to form any opinion as to whether it's good, so-so or just plain crap.

Rant mode: off!

I would love to have an official cd release of the Wilson/Norberg demos. I would love to hear Thank Him in remastered crystal clear sound. My bootleg copy sounds like sh*t.

.......I know how you feel, but do you hear what you're saying? You want demos released as part of the official catalog. Put yourself in the artist's place.....If they don't want that as official releases, shouldn't we respect their wishes? There are 79 other ways to get these tracks, people...C'MON!!!!!!

Regarding the local newspaper interview comments, I'm not sure if a reference to the record company being desperate would be applicable in the case of this potential beachboyscentral website. Obviously there isn't much concrete info to go by, but I thought that part of the idea behind the website was for the group/Brother to circumvent trying to sell record labels on issuing relatively obscure material that won't sell terribly well by simply issuing the material themselves. Isn't Alan Boyd's work in the vaults related to Brother as opposed to Capitol, etc.? Perhaps Capitol has been pressing the group on unreleased material and that is what the interview references, but I can't see how such a comment applies to Alan Boyd working in the Brother vaults and trying to get the band's own website up and running to sell its own music on its own.

It is troubling that the project that has been discussed the most is the "Warmth of the Sun" CD, which is just a "Best of What We Left Off Of Sounds of Summer" disc, although I won't be surprised if a remix or two or something semi-"new" is added to that so we need to buy it. Then there will be the CD/DVD deluxe version issued the following summer, etc.

I'm also a bit perplexed by both the question and answer regarding the proposition of releasing previously unreleased material considering the amount of unreleased material that has been issued in the last 16 years:

-Bonus Tracks on Two-Fers
-Bonus Tracks on GV Boxed Set
-Pet Sounds Sessions Boxed Set
-Endless Harmony Soundtrack
-Hawthorne, CA set
-Knebworth 1980 CD
-Songs From Here & Back

100 lines - "there never was an album called Landlocked"

On my desk by tomorrow morning.   8)

So what's the latest on this site??  Is it ever gonna open...please?   :angel:     

It'll open in 2012.

December 21st, 2012. We'll all hear Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again before they finally start up the Large Hadron Collider and the world explodes.

I would think Love could look to Dylan as a model of these things - the bootleg series continues to make available outtakes of Dylan's work from throughout his career, including live concerts - and many artists (most) make exclusive download tracks available as well.  It may be that the money these releases/downloads would generate just isn't enough to interest the Lovester.

Is Mike really the reason that the site isn't up yet?

Whenever there's a problem in the Beach Boys world, Mike gets the blame.

Indeed. Why isn't Brian releasing his early 60s solo demos, the Usher sessions, Sweet insanity, the Paley sessions? He doesn't need Mike's aproval to let those out.

Dont think Melinda wants it released.

All the Beach boys corporation partners would have to sign off on any download/archival releases - that would be Carl's heirs, Melinda (for Brian), Mike, and Alan.  Don't think Alan would object to anything being released unless it was a song of his that he felt was subpar - and there's not much in the vault that's his.  If Boyd and Leaf put something together, I would think Melinda would get behind it - and Brian would do it if Melinda was behind it.  Carl's heirs are unlikely to block such an endeavor.  So you do the math.

Another sticking point might be Capitol, Sire, Reprise - in particular what compensation they may want for unreleased songs  if they paid for the original sessions?  I'm not sure how that would play out legally.

Alan vetoed Loop de Loop's inclusion in the GV box set.


Brian vetoed Let Him Run Wild's inclusion in the GV box set. While there were about 30 minutes of unreleased Smile in the box set, the compilers were afraid to try to include more - like the legendary Fire track - that could have stirred the pot with Brian.


Point taken. While Carl vetoed Soulful Oldman Sunshine in 93, his heirs let it out in 98.


Done. The math and the scientific method tell me that Al and Brian are more likely to resist archival releases than Mike and Carl's heirs.  :-D

Let's face it. The only way we're going to hear what we want is when all the band members are dead.

How do we know that Brian himself isn't saying no? Why is Melinda always scapegoated? Brian is probably more in control of his life than some people may think. I'm not saying he's totally "all there", given all the sh*t he's been through in his life, but Melinda's not exactly Gene Landy.

No, she's Melinda! Far worse. She's a woman with Landy-esque power over Brian. :)

It's hard to compare The Beach Boys' unreleased stuff with Bob Dylan's. Almost every song on Dylan's new Bootleg Series release, Tell Tale Signs, is good, some very good. Some people might even find the alternate/demo stuff superior to the released versions, thus, enhancing Dylan's musical reputation. Don't we already have the "cream of the crop" of the unreleased Beach Boys' catalogue? While there's obviously a few gems left to be uncovered, they probably don't want to run the risk of putting out crap, simply as "product". 

I think you have to be careful with material like the Usher Project, Sweet Insanity, and even the Wilson/Paley sessions. While diehards like us can't get enough of ANY Beach Boys/Brian Wilson unreleased music, I think the general listening public would be turned off by it. You would be running the risk of actually hurting Brian's reputation and legacy. There are reasons why things are unreleased.

The same thing would apply to the concerts. The Beach Boys weren't always the greatest singers and musicians - live - and you'd have to be very selective in which post-1976 concerts you would want to release to the general public. It's one thing to actually be there in person, soaking up the music, and another thing listen to it later.

Dont get me wrong here. It's good that Brian has a steady force behind him. When i look at recent interviews Melinda decides whats good for Brian and whats not.

I seen enough concert performances where Brian looks like he doesnt want to be there, but because Melinda and more people say its good, he does his job.

Dang, seeing this thread bumped to the top made me think there was actual news about the site opening.....

I'm not sure if this figures into this subject, but if you go to www.surfermoon.com, look in the Beach Boys/Brian Wilson folder, find the Smile Questions thread, look for Bob Hanes' posts on page 2 of the thread.  I know The Right Reverend Bob used to post here, but hasn't in awhile.  Perhaps Alan Boyd can provide some more information regarding this subject. 

I think a reason why they (Brian etc) might not want all the archival stuff released is that it's a great source for new songs and re-recordings, Brian has re-recorded a lot of his unreleased songs in the last decade or so and had they all been released as an 'archive' release it might not give him much material to fall back on. We know this stuff exists but in a legal way and a 'fan off the street' way if something is released 'new' then it is essentially new.
Of course I want to hear it all, but from Brians standpoint, he has a good stash of unreleased songs that he can still put out - the fact that we have heard a lot of them is besides the point!.

Very true, and I think that that is one of the main reasons. When Brian releases  a song that sounds like My Solution it is harder to enjoy it when you realize he wrote the tune 25 years before...I don't blame him! I imagine that unbeknownst to us, most artists do exactly the same. So on the one hand, I a glad I have heard some of those bootlegs, but on the other hand, I can well see how Brian, etc. are pissed off about them.

Alan vetoed Loop de Loop because he wasn't happy with his vocal.  He allowed it (as Santa's got an Airplane) with rerecorded vocals on the Christmas CD.

Let Him Run Wild is not relevant to the discussion because it was al ready released on CD - the exclusion from the box set was because Brian felt it didn't represent "the best" of the beach boys, in particular because he didn't like his vocal.

Yes, Brian still was dealing with his problems with the Smile material at that time - nevertheless Melinda and David got him to agree to "finish" smile and go on tour with it, a far more daunting task than including unreleased material on a CD comp or download.

So to me 4 - 3 = 1 meditating bald headed nasal voiced gentleman as the stumbling block!   :-X

Ok, you convinced me. If Mike packs it in this week, in 2009 we'll be flooded by Beach Boys' archival releases! Too bad that he's into TM and will live to be 135 years old.  ;D

I think Capitol wouldn't mind releasing rarities CDs between the GV box set and about three years ago, if dealing with BRI (Melinda, Al and Mike being the ones who voice their opinions there) wasn't such a hassle. If only that kind of package made real money for the Record Company and/or the surviving Beach Boys, things could have been settled out.

Since then things have changed and I doubt Capitol feels like releasing anything but the yearly compilation of hits. "Oh, but Rev. Bob said that Capitol has rights to everything ad eternum"! Cool it, man. "Good Timin: Live at Knebworth" was released by Eagle. Things can be worked out.

Now, why no archival release? I don't think anyone is BLOCKING it. I think Melinda/Brian, Al and Mike just aren't interested. If at least one of them got behind it, it could happen. Maybe they think that what is in the box set is enough. I don't know.

And then, what's beachboycentral.com in all this? I don't know. Maybe a proposal made at a BRI meeting that got lost in the way. Having that one page website online for years probably costs less than what LePage spends monthly with smileysmile.net. They aren't in a hurry to do anything about it.

Hopefully this post won't be found at the time of some future police investigation...  :-X

That's the rub - if the hits aren't selling - Capitol singles box anyone? - then the commercial prospects for a rarities collection are dim.  That's why the beach boys central idea was so great for fans - downloads and exclusive CD's (limited releases, say 10,000) for the hardcore fanbase, no promotion costs, sell direct and reap the profits.

Didn't  Al re-record his lead vocal for the version of 'Loop de Loop' released on 'Endless Harmony'?

1.) If Bob says something is true, then I have no reason to doubt him. BTW, did you stop to consider that whatever was mentioned in that thread post dates the release of Knebworth?

2.) I don't think I would be breaching anything by saying that Al was the one member who took any interest in decifering what was in the vaults and seeing it released. 

Oops. Here's what happened. I had read Bob's post #25, someone here pointed to that thread, I went there again and somehow missed #28. I thought #25 was all he had to say.

Well, that's a pity. But I don't think downloads would reap millions. Far, very far from it. If you're talking about the greenies, the "Capitol's change" was the way to go.

I would have at least expected downloads to be as profitable as Elvis's Follow That Dream series.

I think it was the price & format that scuppered the singles box, not content. Stick it on a 2CD set and it'd be fine.