The Smiley Smile Message Board

Is their a movie Soundtrack to the movie Love and Mercy? 

I hope so, it would be pretty silly for a movie about a famous musician to be silent.

NO official soundtrack album, to my knowledge.

They should release Sweet Insanity as a special movie tie-in.

Hmm… so those sound collages will go to waste post-DVD?

I assume that because of Atticus Ross' involvement, we'll get something later on. People will want to hear that stuff, even the ones who aren't Beach Boys fans. It would be crazy not to release it in some form.

It's not happening.

Full stop.

Also my understanding.

It makes no difference to me whether they release a soundtrack, because there is nothing like the real thing, which we all have in spades. Nobody does the Beach Boys like The Beach Boys. ;)

Wow, I would not have guessed that in a million years. I was expecting something like this: http://tinyurl.com/mppxze6

In a way, I'm almost glad there's no soundtrack. 

I was afraid the record label would see this as a cash grab and tack on a couple Beach Boys or Brian Wilson rarities just to get us diehards to buy a copy of the CD. 

A couple of Beach Boys and Brian Wilson rarities? Where? Sign me up!  :woot

Wouldn't be too hard for the label to put together a download-only itunes OST compilation, if all the tracks are previously released.

But would you really want to pay for a CD with one or two rare tracks to have yet another copy of Wouldn't It Be Nice in your collection? 

Quite frankly, I'd love to see somebody take all of the BB rarities that weren't on GV, Endless Harmony, and MIC and put them on one collection without padding the collection with two or three discs of greatest hits / album tracks. 

I’m not a fan of one or two “bait” bonus tracks on compilations. But I guess it would depend on what the bonus tracks in question would be. A couple of previously-unreleased live versions of familiar songs? I dunno. Than it would just be hardcore completists buying it because they “have to.”  A couple of “holy grail” status bonus tracks? It would be worth the $15 for the CD, though still not nearly as preferable as some sort of organized larger-scale release of rarities and outtakes.

As for the *score* to the film as opposed to a soundtrack with BB tracks, I haven’t heard the score but people have been saying it’s excellent. A release of that would be welcome. I’ve seen a number of download-only movie scores. If it’s as good as people have said, I’d like to see either an album release of it or some sort of “isolated score” on the eventual blu-ray.

The question no one is asking is *why* isn't there a companion soundtrack being released. So, why isn't a companion soundtrack being released?

My thoughts after having seen the movie twice.

Why would anyone not want to hear Atticus Ross,an Academy Award winning composer, weaving a soundtrack of the original music written and produced by Brian ?

It's not just a replay of the original tracks. Those of you that are going to see the movie will understand that ; I think a few on this board who have seen it already have.

If you have seen the movie and you do not like what he did ; well ok; fine;  that's your opinion.

But if you have not seen the movie in one of it's previews , than how the hell can you make a judgement on something that you have not heard ?

So I second the notion ; why wouldn't their be a soundtrack ?

I want one.

Same here Ray. From what I have heard, it's an amazing score by Ross.

According to Billboard magazine, Capitol records will be releasing a soundtrack.  No date given.

Smile Brian ; have you heard that from someone who has seen thhe film  ?

I am gathering from your post that you have personally not seen it .

When did Billboard say this?

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6258962/love-mercy-john-cusack-paul-dano-brian-wilson-beach-boys (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6258962/love-mercy-john-cusack-paul-dano-brian-wilson-beach-boys)


Last September.

These are definitive statements, do you have confirmation of this and if so from where? It would be a shame to not get a soundtrack, and also how could a film about a musician of Brian Wilson's stature not get a soundtrack release?

It will be a monumental shame if a soundtrack is not released. Atticus Ross did what any good film conposer tries to do - write music that adds to the emotional impact of the film. The music he created, some collages and some more isolated musical elements, played such an integral part to conveying the story. It was really amazing to listen to and very emotionally moving, at least for me.

Do we need a Love and Mercy soundtrack?

The potential target markets for a Love and Mercy soundtrack are:

- people who already are Beach Boys fans
- people who are not that familiar with the works of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys

We can safely assume some rare tracks would make a Beach Boys fan buy the soundtrack.

And let's say a person, who does not own any Beach Boys albums, watches the movie and decides to find out more about Brian's music an official movie soundtrack is an obvious "gateway album". You watch the movie Love and Mercy --> you like Love and Mercy --> you google "Love and Mercy soundtrack" --> you buy the Love and Mercy soundtrack --> you like the songs on Love and Mercy --> you buy more Beach Boys albums == a new Beach Boys fan is born.

Releasing a soundtrack does not have any real downsides. Instead it is a great tool for attracting more fans. Plus hardcore fans get some rare tracks they have not heard before. I really hope there is no behind the scenes schism at Capitol Records preventing a soundtrack from being released.

Please release the soundtrack.

Ah, well sh*t then...I think I'll take billboard's word 8)

It is my understanding that things changed after the Billboard article.

I would enjoy whatever BB/BW releases we can get, but I gather that Capitol delayed NPP so that it could, in essence, help promote the film.

Thus, we have One Kind of Love, which BW says was written for the film, on NPP. And we have a conspicuous silence from Capitol about any soundtrack release, which would surely be near June 5 if one was planned.

Billboard also said there was going to be a Wilson/Beck album released.  :)

Whether there will be a soundtrack in reality or not; for there to NOT be an official soundtrack for this film is so completely counter-intuitive.

However....

Occurrences counter-intuitive in nature are not altogether uncommon to the history of the Beach Boys.

 ;D

That makes sense. 

However, let me be another person that says I wished they would at least consider doing a 'Score' Soundtrack.  I've yet to see the film, very much anticipating it, and would love to have an accompanying score to go with it.

I'd buy the soundtrack if it was nothing more than BA on repeat… but then I'm like that…

Having seen the movie, not to release a soundtrack would be another major missed opportunity in my opinion.

I'd certainly love to know the reason for a possible non-release. A major motion picture about Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys staring Paul Dano, John Cuscack, Elizabeth Banks, and Paul Giamatti....how the f*** could there not be a released soundtrack to that? It is the Beach Boys for crying out loud. Whatever the problem is, I hope it solves itself soon - absolutely crazy that movies like Ray, Walk the Line, I'm Not There, etc get a soundtrack but not one for Brian Wilson's biopic. SNAFU.

Also, many who have seen the film have already mentioned that this is a soundtrack with a score of a Beatles Love-esque nature. Mix in some of those new arrangements with some classic hits and a few rarities - why wouldn't you buy such an album? Ridiculous not to.

You just answered your own question - it's The Beach Boys.

We know its not BW or Al who doesn't want a release.....

Who could it be in BRI? >:D

True that. Just a shame it has to be that way.

I must say the last 5 years have been a treasure trove for Beach Boys fans, so not much room for complaints from me. But I'll still be pretty disappointed if a soundtrack doesn't eventually happen.

What a ridiculous move... i've tried to find out about this but haven't turned up much.

 If it turns out it's Mike Love blocking a soundtrack release because he doesn't "get" Atticus Rose' style, he needs to have rotten tomatoes chucked at him for an apalling lack of taste. Or is he simply jealous and spiteful of the attention his cousin is recieving? Still bitter about the shitshow An American Family turned into? If its indeed the Loves blocking this: ya got Foskett, ya got Ike, you manipulated your family into letting you keep the licence... yay! You won! Mike Love is the best! But damn, let a soundtrack release happen and let the cousin take his victory lap.  Sheesh. Talk about petty. Besides, yer buddy Stamos will no doubt make cinematic history with his upcoming opus! Then finally Bruno Mars will return your calls!

I personally crapped all over Capitol for releasing that stupid little 'Best of' album weeks after Pet Sounds came out and then for seemingly putting more weight behind its push rather than that of the entirely superior NEW album.  I still sh*t on them for it.  I wasn't...and I'm not...the ONLY one.

So now...here we are celebrating Brian's new release and many of us think that No Pier Pressure is his best SOLO release of NEW music yet...a gem of an album.  So now Capitol is holding back...keeping quiet about an alum which could be coming out something in the vicinity of 8 weeks following the release of NPP.  I'm glad they're keeping a lid on it.  Certainly they wouldn't sabotage another ACE Brian project!!! 

If they held back on the release of NPP in order to help create momentum for the movie...well...OK.  I'd think that the movie will also help to promote NPP.  I mean I hope so.  And in tandem they'll hopefully help sell a few more tickets at every upcoming concert on the tour.  It could actually work.  Just...don't...hide No Pier Pressure behind a bunch of retreads.  I mean REALLY!!! ::)

I want those gorgeous soundtrack collages released. Unused sections of em, too. The lot. It's briliant work, they can stick some BW demos on there and interesting oddities... a demo of One Kind of Love, say? Early version of Till I Die!

How do you know Al and Brian are for it?

Good question, the politics of the BBs are pretty complex but BW and Al are touring behind the album and L&M. A soundtrack would be another component of supporting the movie and NPP.

Setting aside the multiple and entirely theoretical "ifs", why would Mike block a soundtrack that would mean more income for him ?

To be honest, I do not want a soundtrack of Beach Boys songs from this film.

I want the film score soundtrack. That is all.

Increased sandwich budget with Foskett and Ike aboard may mean cuts in accommodations and stuffing instead of potatoes on his LoveForce1 jet, but you have to admit it would seem like the kind of move a pissy guy with a grudge in a busy year might be prone to. Can you find out what the Loves think of Love & Mercy and when they plan to see it or maybe if they looked at the scripts that circulate? While it's easy to write dialogue and spiteful gibberish for Fantasy Mike Love, you're right - some facts might help. Calling Tahoe... Calling Tahoe...

Regardless, I have a feeling he'll be opining soon enough in tiny newspapers and we'll get an earful!

There IS a movie soundtrack. From everything I know about its (non)release, it needs to be signed off on by ALL the partners of BRI.
As of April 23rd, 2015, that has not happened.

The work by Atticus Rose is brilliant and important and breathtaking. High art from high art. Why would anybody choose not to sign off on that?

People need to know that the rounding of third began long ago.
How one finishes is how history remembers them.

There's a right side and a wrong side to history.
(I'm both amazed -- and sadly used to -- the people choosing the wrong side.)

So... someone isn't voting. Brian and Al, surely they are in. Which leaves Mike Love and Carl Wilson's family. Fine, ask Mike to sing "Goin' to the Beach" on the extended Japanese edition and offer a portion of the proceeds to go to the Carl Wilson Fund for Men Who Look and Sometimes Sing Like Carl Wilson in the Shower... call it a day! Ok, Al does "Cottonfields" for no apparent reason on the European release.

It's good stuff and it treats all parties fairly... Mike Love comes off like... Mike Love in the movie. I think the staunchest Pinder-y defender of our favorite pointing pantomimer will not quibble much with how he's portrayed in the film. Sure, some song specifics are changed but the points of his arguments would be defended to death by a lot of us here!

most importantly, Howie is right - those Rose collages need a proper release, not just the guys on this board making nice surround compilations of mixes. Though obviously, you're going to do that for me if the bluray release doesn't. A nice selection of extras might be a second way to get these tracks if "certain parties" can't come to agreement for a release with Capitol.

It's tasty stuff, fellas. See it in a theater with a good sound system this summer not some crappy bootleg on a laptop! Your ears will thank you.

I think we're thinking far too much into nothing here with whether or not BRI would approve such a release (and even if Mike didn't approve it, why wouldn't Carl's estate approve it? It's free money for them, and hell, free money for Mike too!)

We have no idea why the soundtrack isn't happening and grasping at straws for someone to blame isn't going to do anything but create more arguments.

It sounds like at least a few folks *do* know why it isn't happening (or hasn't happened thus far). It's a fair assumption Brian Wilson has no problem signing off. Al is buds with Brian these days (there's a even a pic out there of Al talking to some of the cast of the L&M film as I recall), so it's unlikely to be him.

If someone is stalling a release for political or d***head reasons, I for one wouldn't mind knowing. I'm glad Howie has been able to tell us as much as we now know; a soundtrack of some sort did (or does) exist.

What I would hope is that there might be some way to finagle a release of the score portions alone. I know licensing and use of trademarks can be a difficult thing to clear (which may be why BRI approval is needed even if there aren't any BB recordings in question). But I wonder if Atticus Ross and the film's production team could somehow get the score out even if they can't call it that. Just an Atticus Ross album called "A New Album of Stuff", with proper publishing and royalties for the songwriters whose work Ross has woven into his score. Anybody can cover BB songs if they pay the flat royalty rate for CDs/albums. "Tribute" albums even use the "Beach Boys" name in some form in the title sometimes. I hope we get to hear this score, or, as I mentioned before, there is something salvageable on the Blu-ray audio track to pull some of the score out.

This is why BRI needs a MANAGER.

Because a manager (a real one) understands that there is both a high art and casual element to the selling of this band. For those catching up: Brian Wilson camp = high art and the Mike Love camp = casual element. A neutral manager -- preferably, someone who knows these ropes -- would be able to act as a true moderator and circumvent the messes of (at least) the past dozen years.

Both camps are important parts of the Beach Boys experience in 2015, yet, obviously, only one will continue to be in 30, 40. . . 250 years. That’s a fact no matter what team’s jersey you wear (or who’s check you cash.)

Holding the high art faction ransom (or at the very least, trying to spoil it a la the ugliness and lawsuits surrounding the release of BWPS) should never be tolerated.

Atticus Rose’s thought-provoking and forward looking score should get the same unanimous vote that allowed this BBQ to exist without interference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuBSWYoSPj4

unfortunately soundtracks are old hat,,, unless it's a huge movie like the "Lord of the ring" or "Star Wars" it seems that Rock n roll type soundtracks (like Ray or Grease, or an 80's soundtrack movie) are out of fashion , just think about it when was the last time you actually saw a (non instrumental) rock n roll soundtrack? Since the 80's? other than Ray and a couple more?it seems that instrumentals (orchestra and Synths) are the in thing right now..

nah, it's the kind of soundtrack that gets released. Not so so much old hat as baseball caps cutting off circulation leading to muddy thinking.

Looking solely at sales numbers, there is a pretty good, semi-niche market for all sorts of soundtracks. I remember seeing this on the Screen Archives website for sale as a new, limited edition not that long ago:

(http://filmmusicreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/mac-and-me.jpg)

In any event, there's more buzz and hype for the L&M film, so it could sell well enough for a soundtrack/score. We're talking here about the score folks, just to remind. Not another BB compilation with BB tracks from the film. We're talking about the "score", the background music.

Additionally, as Howie mentioned, it's also about art and I would say prestige (or insert whatever word of the sort you like).

Look at this way. If you're cheesed off a bit or annoyed by the continued Brian hype machine, but you can't control whether this film comes out, perhaps you might indeed block the soundtrack release out of spite. Just a theoretical of course.

Okay, I'm just gonna throw this out there....

Is Elliott Lott just totally incapable? I mean, I'm glad we got the C50 tour. I'm so, so happy we got the That's Why God Made The Radio and that the final new Beach Boys song might be "Summer's Gone" whether Mike Love likes it or not. I'm beyond stoked we got Made In California with all the previously unreleased material. So kudos to Elliott for his role in bringing this together whether he had any role. But really it seems like, as Howie has said, there is nobody running the show.

So maybe everybody likes Mr. Lott, but it seems like anybody with a brain would be able to get more out of the brand known as The Beach Boys than this guy has. As the recently departed Jack Rieley has put it, they've blown it and they keep blowing it. I will say that Brian Wilson and his team haven't blown it since around the year 2000, though. Doing Pet Sounds live, doing SMiLE live, recording Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE, the live and studio recorded That Lucky Old Sun, the Gerswhin project, the upcoming movie, his upcoming book, and more.

Now the shame is, if I was in charge of BRI, I would couple ascension of Brian Wilson to unassailable legend within the past twenty years with the group he made that music with! But due to somebody within BRI, they have barely managed to take advantage of this, instead making Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys two very separate things. In 2012 they showed how easily it could be done, and show off the "art" and the "fun" of The Beach Boys all at once. But somebody or something's stopping it. And it's a shame.

I just got this link in an ASCAP "daily brief" email, to a Billboard article that talks about why soundtracks are back. This is the second paragraph of that article:

Last year was the first year since 2009 in which multiple theatrical film soundtracks reached No. 1 on the chart; throw in the Fifty Shades of Grey soundtrack, which peaked at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 and has produced two Top 10 hits on the Hot 100, and it can be concluded that we're in the middle of a full-blown soundtrack revival, nearly two decades after the format's late 90's heyday.

Link to the full article (worth a read):
https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/record-labels/6538871/why-are-soundtracks-suddenly-back-because-theyre-better-than (https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/record-labels/6538871/why-are-soundtracks-suddenly-back-because-theyre-better-than)

So the notion that film soundtracks are "old hat" doesn't seem to be an opinion shared by those in the business, in fact quite the opposite. They're more popular commercially (and with crossover hit single potential) than they've been in decades.

If Atticus Rose wrote a musical score for a movie, what would BRI have to do with it? If there would be no actual Beach Boys recordings on the soundtrack, then isn't releasing the soundtrack strickly between the film's production company and a record company?

The score is stitched together using elements from various vocals and tracks from numerous songs.
The writers and the performers of those songs would have to grant permission for said tracks to be released as part of a soundtrack.

Maybe Mike would be motivated to hold his vote hostage that would grant soundtrack permission, if he feels there's something he could get out of the leverage. He still talks about being open to future BB collabs, if conditions are met. Having not yet seen the film, I suspect that he would be unhappy with his portrayal. I would think he'd only be happy with a portrayal that he himself had input with and signs off on, regardless of how much the filmmakers might have walked on eggshells to make it fair and balanced (and not inflammatory against Mike).

Makes me wonder how on Earth that the world got The Smile Sessions released in 2011. We are very lucky that happened at all. I suspect perhaps there was similar trades of leverage and very specific rules that went into TSS, all the carefully-worded-by-the-participants promo videos for TSS, and C50 in general. No way I can believe that all the TSS interview footage simply happened without rules about what could/could not be talked about. And maybe Mike felt reneged on what was promised to him in return, whatever that may have been (maybe that was "the room"). Of course, I think it's ridiculous for TSS and/or this soundtrack to possibly only be allowed to be released with the permission of someone who could hold up the vote out of leverage and/or grudges (assuming that's what happened). Wasn't the Pet Sounds Sessions set held up for a year due to similar circumstances?

Century, you mentioned Mike wanting to collaborate with Brian again, and it being a vague proviso to any further BB work with Brian. He’s been telling that to me, and every other writer, for well over a decade. During the entire C50, has there been ONE witness seeing Mike Love take an active interest in making that happen? From the sessions at Ocean Way through the 75 dates across the globe, where there was always SOME time and a keyboard SOMEWHERE — did Mike Love ever try to make that happen? For the first time in decades, he saw Brian every day. It’s a great thought and an even better soundbyte, but I personally don’t believe it’s true.

I think a few things. I think that Love And Mercy COULD have portrayed Mike Love in a far harsher light. I think it was fair to him and that made me happy. Because, let’s face facts, George Harrison wasn’t crazy about Sgt. Pepper -- he has a right as a partner to have his say and not have it define him. Fair is fair. And across the board, Mike did outstanding work during that era (he kills on “Cabinessence.”) If the powers that be wanted to settle a score, they could’ve used Love And Mercy to do so. The powers that be did not. If anything, the film is sympathetic to Mike and the situation in regards to the ’66, ’67 output. My point is that, there is so much Brian in Brian's story that Mike is just one of the many planets orbiting his sun. I don't think the same is vice versa. I think Brian -- and, more specifically, Brian's long shadow and talent -- is a central part of Mike's life. That's a tough shadow to live in. Al Jardine seems to now live in it with love and admiration -- Mike Love seems to not.

I hope that Mike’s ghostwritten memoir isn’t used as a tool to do damage to perceived foes. I fear that there are elements in place to “reshade” if not outright rewrite history in regards to certain instances in the book. I hope I'm proven wrong. I really do. I hope we hear about Mike's long and interesting journey and not a long defense against what he feels was robbed from him by Brian and the people in Brian's life -- past and present.

This can't all have just happened.

Part of me wonders if the original plan was to release NPP last year, and have a soundtrack with some new BW things (the Scott B. tracks) this year.

But once objections were raised, Capitol changed course, delayed and resequenced NPP, and put off any announcement of the soundtrack.

Clears up some things, if true.

From what I gather, from all those who have seen the film (including yourself), Mike will be treated fairly. I hope that's good enough for him (if Mike sees the film, which he probably will), though I don't know that it will be good enough. What good enough would be is another mystery. I hope Mike's book won't be overly defensive too. I want these guys to get along, or if they can't get along creatively, at least not try to prevent releases of material out of spite - that crosses a line in my eyes, if that's what's happening here. If they could only just get along... 

Wirestone, that's the first I heard of any of that.

Brett Simons posted this publicly Facebook shortly after NPP was released:


Obviously the film has been in the works for awhile, but those two tracks do sound somewhat different from the rest of NPP, and have the different writing credits.

So the question then becomes (to me), why did those tracks become part of Brian's solo album project? What changed? What happened?

The answer could just as easily be found in the filmmaking process, just like any number of revisions to a script and changes in the storyboard can happen before a rough cut is even made, perhaps the songs were at one time done and intended for scenes in the film but got cut out for any number of reasons. Maybe those new songs (and new recordings) didn't mesh as well with what Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor eventually did for the score/soundtrack (the sound collage approach) and they were left off. The recordings were good, the songs were obviously strong, so they ended up on the album instead. Just a thought. Or maybe the concept of the soundtrack itself changed midstream and the new songs were simply not a part of it.

For me the bigger issue is still the lack of a soundtrack release - There is one, it's getting rave reviews so far from those who saw the film, the commercial opportunities are waiting to be picked like ripe apples off a tree in the fall, according to that Billboard article the market for soundtrack albums is as big as it's been since the 90's...and yet it's not happening for a musician-centric biography film. I'd rather get to the reasons behind that.  ;D

Maybe we should hold off on this until the movie gets released in more places...

Hold off on what?  :) I don't understand.

Just some bits of info from my own experience in the 90's buying soundtracks...I remember buying the Pulp Fiction soundtrack at Tower some time before the film was released, as did many Tarantino fans I knew (Reservoir Dogs was a massive favorite at the time), and we were all very psyched to see how all the dialogue on that album would fit into the film itself. It actually sold very well at least in the Boston area before the film premiered, and we got tickets for that as well. Same with the film "Backbeat", a bit of an indie sleeper about the Beatles in Hamburg. I had the soundtrack and was really liking it before even seeing the film, as seeing the film was tougher than usual since it was a limited release that didn't get to many theatres. But the soundtrack with Thurston Moore, Mike Mills, Dave Grohl, etc jamming out on 50's rock tunes actually kicked ass at that time, and it was a good listen before any of us could see the film.

What I meant was that the movie has not been released in many places yet so demand for the soundtrack, while praised, is small.  I think whoever is stockpiling the music is waiting for June so demand for the music will get larger.  I sense some concern about whether a soundtrack will be released, but I think right now it is too early to think about whether it will be or not.  The movie isn't out everywhere yet!   :P

Again, you're assuming that it's Person A holding a soundtrack to ransom. Why not Persons B, C, Q or X ?  May be the case, but it pays to consider the other options.

Howie Edelson did strongly imply that it was Person A.

While Carl Wilson’s estate seems to be clouded in a fair amount of mystery as far as how they play into the current inner-workings of BRI, I can’t think of any evidence that we’ve seen that they put up roadblocks to much of anything. They have allowed BB archival releases. They have the least personal ego involved, so it’s easier to believe they’re happy with whatever checks keep rolling in. They have allowed (and/or put up no roadblocks for) Carl’s voice to be used on solo projects by Brian (“Soul Searchin’”) and Al (“Don’t Fight the Sea”, “Waves of Love”).

Given other events of the last couple of years, and especially the last few weeks/months concerning potentially overt and/or subtle “political” moves or jabs from the camps, it’s not far-fetched to believe that Person A is the hold-up.

Previously, when all we really had was the vague idea that a soundtrack *could* be released, it would have been a huge leap to assume “Person A” was blocking a release that we didn’t even know would have or could have existed or been planned. But now that we know a release was planned, and that it awaited signatures from BRI, the whole scenario becomes much more plausible.

I can’t explain the precise origin of why soundtracks come out in advance of films, but they usually seem to. It’s a promotional tool for the movie, among other things. It’s probably the same reason toys for superhero movies come out several months before the actual movie.

But I think we have pretty good confirmation above that a soundtrack did/does exist and was planned for release. So that doesn’t appear to be an open question at this stage. It’s sounding like it isn’t questions of marketing strategy that are causing delays. Sounds like it’s a signature.

Having not yet seen the film myself, it’s interesting to know that elements of the original tracks are woven into the score. *That* would explain why it requires BRI approval. BRI would have to sign off on use of any archival BB recordings (meaning all of BRI have to sign off even if they only use an isolated lead vocal of Brian). I don’t know enough about the Ross score to know for sure, but I would guess it wouldn’t be as easy as stripping all of those BB vocals/recording elements out of the score. I’d be curious to know if that’s possible, but I wouldn’t assume that it wouldn’t compromise the whole point of how the score was done.

[/quote]

...it’s interesting to know that elements of the original tracks are woven into the score. *That* would explain why it requires BRI approval. BRI would have to sign off on use of any archival BB recordings (meaning all of BRI have to sign off even if they only use an isolated lead vocal of Brian). I don’t know enough about the Ross score to know for sure, but I would guess it wouldn’t be as easy as stripping all of those BB vocals/recording elements out of the score.
[/quote]
It's not a matter of just signing off. This presents an issue of rights of usage and publishing. It might be that all parties have not/did not come to an agreement regarding the issuing of the soundtrack. And, who is involved? The various composers of the Beach Boys material, the soundtrack composer, the various publishers of the writers, the film company and the publisher of the soundtrack, not to mention artist/composer managers.

The splitting of writer/publishing shares can be a point involving intense negotiation. Who knows who wanted what or who was willing or unwilling to share rights or credits?

That's the option that seems to make the most logical sense to me. But I am certainly open to the possibility of being completely, 100% incorrect.

It goes without saying that we have to wait for the book to materialize to judge it. But nearly all of the interviews/essays/letters he's done in the last few years (or decades) leave little hope that the book will greatly differ. It may be in a somewhat different "voice" coming from a ghostwriter. But considering what he imparts in interviews when there's at least theoretically some give-and-take from an interviewer, I can only imagine how it would go when it's all essentially monologue. That David Beard "interview" comes close, and that wasn't pretty.

A reason the book will probably blow up among fans/scholars, is that if the book is any substantial length, it will no doubt have some interesting/key biographical information and anecdotes. The arguments will ensue when fans debate over whether the chapters on his family history, and anecdotes about the early days, are integral enough and important enough to outweigh the diatribes about all the "wrongs" inflicted on him.

That's the tone post-C50 from Mike's side hasn't particularly gotten kinder, and that this book is due in 2016, certainly doesn't give one much hope we'll see another reunion project of any sort in 2016.

I don't know how much of an "historical record" such ghostwritten autobiographies will become in the years to come, but if I were Brian, as silly as it sounds, I would wait for Mike's book so that if there's anything in that to refute, there will be a venue for that.

So far it' been implied right here that MEL is keeping the soundtrack from being released.

But. One question: didn't the theatrical release of this film, with its portrayals and BB-filled soundtrack have to been approved by BRI also? Why would one vote for the release of a movie and then hold back its harmless soundtrack?

Just a guess but it could be that old chestnut market oversaturation. Brian's team want you to come out of the cinema and buy No Pier Pressure if you haven't already, another album featuring his music out so soon after NPP could have Brian competing with himself, effectively.

<<But. One question: didn't the theatrical release of this film, with its portrayals and BB-filled soundtrack have to been approved by BRI also? Why would one vote for the release of a movie and then hold back its harmless soundtrack?>>

Licensing for use in a film and licensing for release on a soundtrack are two separate issues.  In many - in most cases, musicians/artists sign deals for music use in a movie under what's called a "sync license agreement."  This covers use of the music, in the film, in perpetuity.

In the case of Love & Mercy, I am sure the producers negotiated a sync license agreement for use of the tracks in the film only, under a sync license agreement.

A sync license agreement does not cover separate release of music in a soundtrack or other media.  Those rights - and all publishing - remain with the music creators.  In my last film, we had both source cues (featuring some surf music icons) and also a complete original score by another composer.  We have rights to use the music in our film - but the soundtrack rights remain with the creators.  We can encourage the release of a soundtrack - and help promote same - but we have no rights to or control over such release.

I'm sure that's  where the soundtrack to Love & Mercy presently lies in this contractual mess.  The producers of the film made their deal for the music.  But it's now up to the composer of the score and whoever else is involved in the prospective soundtrack to wade the legal waters in Beach Boys land for their separate deal.

Ok then. In this legal context, it makes no sense to hold back a soundtrack while voting in favor of making the film.

<<Ok then. In this legal context, it makes no sense to hold back a soundtrack while voting in favor of making the film.>>

Actually, it makes perfect sense.  Licensing for use in a film is a relatively simple cash deal.  Soundtrack LP, on the other hand, involves the potential release of a Brian Wilson/Beach Boys ALBUM, or at least a sound track containing same, and possible with a license deal to another label (unless Capitol is involved).  That's much more complex.  And a certain member of BRI, whoever that might be, might not believe it's the right context, presentation and/or commercial vehicle for a new album with Beach Boys content.

Not saying it's right... just throwing out some issues that might be at play.

Using the same set of legal finagling, if (and it remains an if) Mike is responsible for holding up the soundtrack, could Mike have also held up No Pier Pressure because of his co-writing credit on "In the Back of My Mind" if he'd wanted to? Or maybe because that was just a bonus track on a more obscure retailer-only release, it wouldn't legally count, and his hands would be tied?

If the current-day blood is as bad as we (including me) are possibly assuming, it would be surprising if Mike wouldn't have said no to that track being released too. Maybe that would indicate it's more about making a statement specifically against the L&M film, rather than holding up any other release. I dunno.

<<Using the same set of legal finagling, if (and it remains an if) Mike is responsible for holding up the soundtrack, could Mike have also held up No Pier Pressure because of his co-writing credit on "In the Back of My Mind" if he'd wanted to? Or maybe because that was just a bonus track on a more obscure retailer-only release, it wouldn't legally count, and his hands would be tied?>>

I would think the issue would center, specifically, on actual Beach Boys recordings incorporated into the score, not solo cover versions.

Right - but my question is, would the same legal maneuvers that could disallow actual Beach Boys recordings on a score actually  give anyone any legal right to block a solo cover version (with that person's writing credit listed)? It's a no-brainer why the soundtrack would be more "offensive" or "inappropriate" by comparison of the two unrelated projects, I'm just wondering if it would even be legally possible if he had wanted to take things to that level. I'd imagine soundtrack legalities and ordinary album legalities are different beasts entirely...

I'm not a party to these contracts, of course.  There's a difference between having a legal right to black something and choosing to block something.  This may be a simple case of not having an issue with music license for a film - but having an issue with releasing BB content on a soundtrack album.

That makes the most sense. I just wonder how far the bad blood will actually go. One almost gets the impression that Mike listens to a tape loop of Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson on repeat for hours on end, the way Brian did with Be My Baby.   :-\

Ok, my point was that if I held grudges for my genius cousin, and if I wanted to keep him from portraying me in a film, I would probably try and block the use of music I sang on for said film; I would try and keep my name from being mentioned it; and heck, I would try and block the movie. But a soundtrack release?

If it were actually desired to do so, going to such lengths of outright blocking a portrayal in a film would be so blatantly obvious to the public, and then the film's story would have to awkwardly somehow sidestep the existence of a founding bandmember, whose positive and not so positive contributions to the story are well documented. That would lead to a C50-implosion level of endless sh*tstorm flak in movie blogs, going all the way throughout media in general, wouldn't it? That would just be super embarrassing to deal with, much moreso than whatever embarrassment might be felt from the actual portrayal (which by most accounts is quite tame anyway). Every article would talk about the undeniably pivotal Mike Love being completely missing from the film. Whereas IF the soundtrack is in fact being blocked, it would be a more subtle gesture that could fly under the radar of finger pointing, and a gesture that is also probably much more easily achievable.

Ok. Did Mike block the release of the soundtrack then?

Seems to be some confusion here. You can't stop anyone making a movie just because you're portrayed in it. Example: the Von Trapp singers didn't try to block The Sound Of Music even though there were some serious factual errors in it. If said portrayal is distinctly unflattering, then of course you can rightly sue their sorry ass once it's released.

Moving closer to home and slightly changing media, a while back someone asked if Mike could ask to see the text of Brian's #2 auto bio. Yes, he could ask, but he'd have no legal right to demand to see it (as illustrated by auto bio #1). Recorded, copyrighted music is something else entirely, as noted below by those far more expert in this field than I.

However, given that Mike is a public figure, an unflattering portrayal is not enough to sustain a lawsuit by itself. There has to be evidence of malicious intent, a standard that at least in the United States is almost impossible to meet. In other words, both Brian and Mike will be free to say whatever they like about the other in their books. It's virtually certain that their publishers and cowriters know this too.

I can`t say I know anything about the soundtrack but some of the earlier posts indicating that this has any real importance to their legacy are melodramatic to say the least imo.

The legacy for the group will be the greatest hits, Pet Sounds, Smile and their other work from decades ago (in pretty much that order). Nothing they do now will change that.

Point taken. Now, is it possible to block your songs from being included in the film?

Point taken. Now, is it possible to block your songs from being included in the film? >>

It's possible - but this is a moot point.  We have a locked picture that's already screened and has a distributor.  When you deliver a movie to a distributor, you have to include copies of all contracts, sync license agreements and cue sheets for music in the entire film.  Without all of those elements, the distributor will not accept delivery of the picture and the distribution deal is off.

Given that this film has distribution, this means all the deals are already signed, for the film.  And all of the music in the film has been licensed and paid for.  Deals done.  BRI, Capitol, whoever, have already signed off on their use in the film. 

Keep in mind, the release of this major motion picture and accompanying promotion has the potential to increase catalog sales, which is the holy grail for all of the parties extant.  And it makes more sense, financially. for all parties, to generate income from increased catalog sales, increased sales of NPP, etc., of a film release.  A film soundtrack, as much as I'd love to hear it, would probably have significantly less impact on catalog or NPP sales, particularly as the revenue stream and profits would be split among many more individuals besides the usual suspects (the composer of the score, for instance).

Personally, if the film does very well, we may eventually see some deal come to fruition and a soundtrack or original score album released, albeit maybe just digital.  It's all going to be down to whether or not the numbers make sense.

I mostly agree with that. But then again, look at what the Jersey Boys film and Broadway show have done for the Four Seasons. So while one woulda thought ten years ago that their story was all over, wrapped up, now Frankie and company have a new lease on life.

And even The Beach Boys, I'd say that while the legacy is yes basically stuff from decades ago, I think C50 and stuff like "Summer's Gone" will show how the group rode into the sunset, and will have a nice little part in that legacy.

<< But then again, look at what the Jersey Boys film and Broadway show have done for the Four Seasons. So while one woulda thought ten years ago that their story was all over, wrapped up, now Frankie and company have a new lease on life.>>

The difference here is that the Four Seasons catalog is A.) not as large and B.) not as exploited over the years.  The Four Seasons have come back primarily because they've been out of the public eye for a while, in terms of attention (though still on the road).

The Beach Boys have never really gone away. 

Thank you for your insights, Steve.

That's because surfers rule. Four Seasons, you better believe it.

I just saw Love and Mercy for the first time this evening which Bill Pohlad told us was the first showing featuring One Kind of Love as the film's ending.  If this soundtrack isn't released, it will be a loss to everyone who loves this music.  It's impact is phenomenal.

Wondering how the addition of this song to the the film squares with your statements about the distribution deals.
Could other songs/music be added at this point if they( Brian/Pohlad/??) wanted to do so?

Sigh. This is so bizarre! It is staggeringly dumb to think there will not be a soundtrack available for a movie about Brian flipping Wilson. I was fine with it if it was going to be a compilation of Beach Boys tunes we all have, but the fact that they have been rearranged for the film in an artful way makes this awfully frustrating.

Spot checking some related films: Walk the Line (Johnny Cash), La Bamba (Richie Valens), The Buddy Holly Story, Ray, The Doors, Bird (Charlie Parker), and What's Love Got to do With it (Tina Turner) all have soundtracks.

Technology being the way it is nowadays, I am sure one of our technophile members here will be able to provide.

It has been suggested that there's no soundtrack available because Mike, being conflicted about Brian's "artistic side" is blocking it. If this is not the case, if there are other reasons for the soundtrack not appearing, or if those that submitted the ML reasons don't really know, it better be clarified.

OR what?

Wow! My first bgas one-liner!!!

Rerelease of BWs first solo, occasionally refered to as L&M by vendors, can't help but confuse the chances of the soundtrack.

Anyone know yet if the correct mixes are included this time around?

Price here is very keen:

http://www.spincds.com/renaissance-live-in-concert-tour-2011-dvd-2cd-45099

Cool that this is being re-released. A shame that all of Brian`s solo CDs havent been given the bonus track treatment.

I sincerely hope so, particularly in the case of "Melt Away", whose original mix is said to be amazing... 

I'm hoping for a L&M soundtrack release as well, but I don't think there's much chance of seeing it released right now, as the focus, as it should be, is on promoting and selling NPP.

I agree. If anything, a soundtrack album would be a terrible idea right now, wouldn't it? Brian wants to move his new music. Hopefully the film will push some more sales for NPP.

I seriously doubt anyone was expecting a soundtrack of L&M to be released tomorrow.  The debut in the US is 5-Jun.  It is a spectacular soundtrack.  I'm sure some people here can do a nice recording of the music, and no disrespect, but I really want an official version off the original track shown in the film. 

I think its comical that people are actually accusing Mike Love of blocking the release of a L&M soundtrack. 

Firstly, why would Mike block a release that's going to make him money?  There would likely be a few MEL credits on the album I would imagine. 

Secondly, I wouldn't think Mike would even have any control of whether or not an OST is released. 

Is it not possible that Mike is more about the legacy (as he sees it) than the money? If he saw the release as harming the legacy, that would be a good motivator towards him blocking it's release.

I suspect it has more to do with market saturation and that we'll see a release eventually. *fingers firmly crossed*

I'm not sure how to respond to this one.  I'm really not looking to derail this thread into an anti-Mike thing, but judging by the fact that Mike tours as The Beach Boys without Brian or Al, I'd say he's much more concerned about the money than the legacy.   

But just about every movie that gets a wide release has a companion OST released.  They could be trying to decide what the nature of the release will be - ie.  score, BB songs, etc. 

How they tour will not affect their legacy. Their legacy will be based on what they put to tape. Now, had Mike released multiple SIP-type albums since 1998, then yes, he would have affected the Beach Boys legacy.

Ah yes, well in that case, their legacy as recording artists is in tact. 

I know that. You know that. But someone with a vote doesn't see it that way. At least not wholly that way.

<<Wondering how the addition of this song to the the film squares with your statements about the distribution deals.
Could other songs/music be added at this point if they( Brian/Pohlad/??) wanted to do so?>>

It's always possible to add songs before general release, or even after general release, or even change content.  Music licensing for film is, in the end, a very simple, albeit expensive process.  Again. it boils down to money.  The primary expense with this kind of change is going back into the locked picture and changing both the finished sound mix and the end credit roll.  Legally, and from a licensing standpoint, perfectly easy.  But it does cost a great deal of money to handle the post production changes.  It would be a lot more expensive if a music track were changed after general release.

The big trick here, assuming the producers what the film to qualify for the Oscars, is to ensure that the completed feature as distributed is the same film submitted to the Academy.  The Academy has very strict rules when it comes to Oscar submissions.  Again, the film submitted for an Oscar has to have the same content/same edit as the film released theatrically.  Technically, the film has already screened theatrically, with different end credit music.  However, that has only been in festivals.  So the qualification rule - I think - only applies after the film has opened and played in a theater, for paying customers, and for multiple screenings.  So Love & Mercy is probably safe.  

As far as one party of BRI holding up a release, I suppose it is conjecture at this point. However, if it were to be the case, would we be correct in assuming that a majority vote needs to take place in terms of a touring license, but that a unanimous vote needs to take place to release an album?