The Smiley Smile Message Board

With the demand capitol put on the group its trippy to think how little new music they put out in the 70s and hardly any thereafter. Twelve albums in the 60s excluding the Xmas album, the two live albums, and 20/20 and/or little deuce coupe considering that one is a collection of cuts sporadically done in the second half of the prior yr and the other two thirds of a new album...then their tenure w warner bros produced three good albums prior to the nostalgic re-establishment with endless summer and 15 big ones; and considering how that album is a hodgepodge of covers and old outtakes from previous years it really makes holland prominent as a bookend. So therefore 12+ albums in the 60s, 3+ albums in the 70s and their self-titled album from 85 being their sole release of the 80s being that KTSA was recorded in 79 and still cruisin was another assortment. And whether or not ya consider summer in paradise a mike love/terry melcher lp or not either way its half new material and only album in the 90s unless counting stars&stripes.

<<With the demand capitol put on the group its trippy to think how little new music they put out in the 70s and hardly any thereafter. Twelve albums in the 60s excluding the Xmas album, the two live albums, and 20/20 and/or little deuce coupe considering that one is a collection of cuts sporadically done in the second half of the prior yr and the other two thirds of a new album...then their tenure w warner bros produced three good albums prior to the nostalgic re-establishment with endless summer and 15 big ones; and considering how that album is a hodgepodge of covers and old outtakes from previous years it really makes holland prominent as a bookend. So therefore 12+ albums in the 60s, 3+ albums in the 70s and their self-titled album from 85 being their sole release of the 80s being that KTSA was recorded in 79 and still cruisin was another assortment. And whether or not ya consider summer in paradise a mike love/terry melcher lp or not either way its half new material and only album in the 90s unless counting stars&stripes.>>

Very compound statement. The joke headline in the 90s was that "...the beach boys have reunited to record another deposition..."  "...these days they release more legal briefs than albums," etc.

This is one of the big tragedies of the Beach Boys saga: So much time wasted with feuding, drugs, psychiatrists, alcohol, etc.  While I don't always agree with Mike Love, I think he was right when he said that he wished his cousins had never gotten involved with drugs-as one has to imagine that a healthy Brian, Carl and Dennis would have produced a hell of a lot more music!  But nevertheless a lot of what they did manage to produce is quite good.  And as far as the late 80s-90s go, many of their contemporaries (Dylan, Stones, McCartney, Van Morrison, Neil Young, etc) produced more music but I think all of them struggled with maintaining the standards they'd set when they were younger.  As you get older-it is a lot harder to get yourself into the right head space to produce music as intensely as when you were 24 and had no other priorities.  Mike, certainly, seems reluctant to spend his time in a recording studio, when he could be having more fun playing to fans.

By drugs Im assuming youre referring to the acid in the 60s and coke in the 70s...considering that every notable artist during those eras was doing the same I wouldn't blame it on that particularly being the great music brian composed in 65 to 68 but later on I think its important to take into account ea record...being that sunflower was a solid group effort, surfs up not so much but then holland was. As far as 15big ones went all the orig material were old outtakes, so 15 was a total remake of old tunes. If ya blame drugs for brian's lack of output then how do ya explain someone like deedee ramone who was never sober who co.wrote 2/3 of the ramones compared to joey's 1/3?

With the dip in quality post Holland (apologies to fans of Love You), I don't think its such a bad thing that the number of albums went down after 1973. 

There were some good songs here and there.

At least Brian picked up the slack with some good solo albums. 

Unfortunately, this is the case with many classic artists from the time.  Some of Paul McCartney's music from the 80s and beyond is unlistenable.   

Substance abuse affects each one differenlty.

I concur w KDS. I say Sunflower was their last masterpiece, Holland was their last wortg owning, and Love you is its own entity, BW solo lp w BB name.

BW solo with the group members all singing lead and background and Carl co-producing. ???

One has to note that there was some kind of planning and production behind the Salute NASCAR release. I wonder how many months it was in the making? Has anybody found the sessionography for that project? Craig?

The BIGGEST problem for the Sand Pail Sailors was that after Holland...they just didn't seem to have ENOUGH songs at any given time to actually release a decent album.  [Pacific Ocean Blue coming close to being the lone exception]  But there was another underlying issue...dating all the way back to the Beach Boys returning to California from Japan and delving into the vocal recordings for Pet Sounds...

Even TWGMTR...which might have had been a far greater album suffered from it...

Brian wanted to leave all of that surf/car/beach/chicks stuff behind back in 1965.  He knew that it was the key to their collective future yet he continually took a beating for thinking THAT WAY.  So what did we end up with on TWGMTR?  Some good songs plus Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation, Daybreak Over The Ocean and Beaches In Mind.  Were those songs there to placate Mike?  Were they there because it was felt that THAT is what 'the fans' would want on a reunion/50th Analversary album?  To me they totally weakened the album and were almost, in essence, a caricature of what the Beach Boys USED TO BE and by and large, managed to 'wipeout' all they grew to become between the summers of 1966 'til 1973... ... ...and very, VERY occasionally beyond.

Maybe there wasn't enough time and effort put into prepping for year 50...and the album...but it sure came up short.  While there were some who really wanted to do it up RIGHT....there were others, it would seem, who wanted to take the money and run.  In retrospect...it sure SOUNDS like it.  And it looks like it too.

There are still significant contemporaries who harken back to what Pet Sounds meant [and still means] ...and to what a "game changer" the album was for the entire industry.  There was also some of that in a retrospective-like 'take' on BWPS.  There was none of that for TWGMTR.  And THAT is how they'll collectively go out.  Brian, Al, David and Blondie [along with ALL of the helping hands...many who've been with Brian for a significant length of time] at least have trumped that last 'group' effort.

I think that Brian was flummoxed that he didn't get the chance to wrap things up properly for the Beach Boys.  He isn't making that mistake for his own career.  That he has the heart and soul to include other deserving participants is simply who Brian Wilson is.

Ya gotta love him.  :hat

Yep, very prevalent that there was a lack of material after holland, even sunflower.

Really? Maybe they weren't quite as prolific as during the Sunflower sessions and they had become more of a touring act in the mid-70s (understandably enough I think) but up until L.A. it seems they always had a wealth of fairly new and strong material to pick from (which did not keep them from taking some really poor decisions over the years, mind you). Too bad the Caribou ranch album didn't happen. Even with substantially weaker albums like M.I.U. or KTSA it seems the songwriting itself wasn't the problem.

Thematically those fun in the sun songs have been a big part of Brian`s career for ages and continue to be too. Nothing wrong with that if they are good songs either...

A couple of points...

I would say there wasn`t really an absence of material particularly. Around the 15 Big Ones period, for example, they had California Feelin, Good Timin, an early version of Angel Come Home, 10,000 Years, Glow Crescent Glow etc. I think there was a lack of organization and that they were probably unmanageable.

Plus, the output between them didn`t drop all that much compared to other bands. Between 1976 and 1985 they put out 10 albums either as a group or solo (and had several other unreleased things). It was only after 1985 that things really dropped off a cliff...

There were definitely a good amount of songs from the post Holland era. 

But, the albums themselves aren't nearly as consistent as they were in the first decade or so of the band's career. 

Granted MIU and LA are decent records, and there are good tracks on 15, Love You, KTSA, 1985, and Still Cruisin.  Even that dog Summer in Paradise has its moments.  But, these albums just seem to lack the magic and creativity of the ones from 1962-73. 

Also, just for the record, I have no issues with returning to beach themes as long as its done well (ie. Do It Again, Its OK, Kona Coast, California Calling, Kokomo, Beaches in Mind, etc are all good IMHO).

Hear that KDS...but 4 [ish] on one album?  It just seemed tilted toward the past way too much.  Organization.  Leadership.  A plan of 'attack' with an eye to the future...???  From '75 [post Endless Summation] on...they had trouble putting together a better than just OK/decent album.  NO blockbusters.

Yet...they collectively had lotsa talent.  Maybe skip every other album and put the best songs from the 2 releases together?  Use more from Dennis w/o beating him up too?  I dunno.  I was just not up to the originally established standards.  Guess 'they' needed NOT to have been so abusive with Brian.  He couldn't take it.  Neither could 'they'.  Obviously.

I hear ya.

That's why I very rarely listen to anything post Holland from start to finish, with the exception of TWGMTR.  We'll have to agree to disagree on Beaches in Mind, Daybreak Over the Ocean, etc on that record. 

There's also Brian's last two solo albums, both very solid. 

I wonder if The Beatles ever listened to the post Holland BB albums (or even post 1973 Stones for that matter, or post 1973 Who....what the hell happened after 1973????) and thanked goodness they didn't stick around long enough to go through such a decline. 

When ya really break it down Holland really was the last legitimate BBs album til the self-titled over a decade later; 15 big ones being covers and outtakes from prior yrs, Love You being Brian's solo, MIU being older outtakes and rewrites, and same w LA and KTSA with once again older outtakes and solo tracks from aborted solo sessions (dennis, carl & mike).

By that logic then Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up Carl & The Passions and Holland are not legitimate BBs albums.

I've always heard people say that Love You is basically Brian solo featuring the Beach Boys. 

Can't we say the same thing about Pet Sounds?  Especially since it's basically Brian and the Wrecking Crew with added vocals from the Boys. 

Love You has much more group vocals than Pet Sounds. Brian was the mastermind behind Love You but I consider it a Beach Boys album in every respect.

<<When ya really break it down Holland really was the last legitimate BBs album til the self-titled over a decade later; 15 big ones being covers and outtakes from prior yrs, Love You being Brian's solo, MIU being older outtakes and rewrites, and same w LA and KTSA with once again older outtakes and solo tracks from aborted solo sessions (dennis, carl & mike). >>

I'm loving these posts from kook... completely inaccurate, no foundation in reality, but entertaining.
8 of the 12 tracks on MIU were brand new.  Two were from 1976, both sweetened and changed considerably and two were almost complete re-records.
LA Light tracks were all cut in 1978, with the exception of Good Timin', which was about half done.  And only two tracks came from solo sessions (Dennis).  Sumahama was a complete re-record of an earlier Mike solo song.
KTSA tracks were all cut in 1979, except for When Girls Get Together and Santa Ana Winds (which wasn't finished until 1979).

Other than that, I guess, his post is perfectly correct.

MIU: peggy sue & come go w me-15 big ones sessions,76, hey lil tomboy and my diane-adult child sessions also 76/77, kona coast and bells of paris rewrites from xmas lp sessions 77, kona also remake of hawaii, winds of change from 75....so the "8" new songs is incorrect....Light album: good timin from 74, two tracks from dennis's aborted bambu, one from mike's shelved solo too, shortenin bread from adult child...here comes the night awful disco remake from wild honey and then carl's solo cuts saved for the group. KTSA: the entire second side was a mix of rewrites or songs dating back years before...how is any of that false??

And to 'mikes beard' I never said sunflower, surfs up & holland weren't legitimate BBs albums, but holland was/is the last BBs lp with historical value and the end of the 5yr progression that started with smiley smile&wild honey.

If you make music sometimes you end up using older ideas. No big deal.

No you didn't but I was just applying your logic to what constitutes a 'legitimate' BBs album. As the bulk of Sunflower was made up of the rejected Add Some Music material and Cool, Cool Water is a two thirds Smile/Wild Honey recording is it somehow not a real BB album?
Surf's Up contained Take a Load Off Your Feet -  an Add Some Music holdover -, a re-write of Riot In Cell Block #9 with different lyrics and a 5 year old title track.
Carl & The Passions contained a couple of 2 year old Dennis solo tracks.
Holland opens with a song first started 2 years previously and Big Sur is a re-recording of a Sunflower era track.
The band reused/reworked older material constantly throughout their career, there's only about 4 albums they put out made up of 100% 'fresh' material.

Yeah, if there's one thing the Beach Boys always did well it was recycle a good riff.

Yeah but youre talking about working titles of what became sunflower...