The Smiley Smile Message Board

Anyone else notice Brian's Facebook likes decreased?

I love it. Great chords and melody. I'm a big fan of Capital Cities and this is what a lot of their stuff sounds like. Good for Bri to branch out.
Love that ending too!

...it sounds a bit like new order and late bad YES or Bananarama--pole-dancer music in Thailand.

Its a lot more interesting than"the right time" - bit of a grower.

Its a lot more interesting than"the right time" - bit of a grower.

Yeah, I grow weary of the growers.  I want something to thrill me at first listen.  I get sick of hearing how much more I'd like something if I understood its context and just let it grow for a while.

For me --

Midnight's Another Day
Just Like Me and You
From There and Back Again

It has nothing in common with Love You.

It has nothing in common with Love You.

The two are similar in how people react to them. Love You is an album that people either really love or really hate, and Runaway Dancer seems to be getting similar reactions from people.

Haven't listened t it enough yet but if Our Special Love is the descendant of TWGMTR, then this is descendant of '85, particularly Passing Friend…

I tried again, but I find it so forgettable.

It doesn't jump out in anyway, it feels more like a songwriting exercise than an actual song.

I'd rather listen to smart girls, not even joking.

I tried again, but I find it so forgettable.

It doesn't jump out in anyway, it feels more like a songwriting exercise than an actual song.

I'd rather listen to smart girls, not even joking.

How many comments have there been about Brian's band trying to continually recreate his 'classic 60s sound'?

Haven't listened t it enough yet but if Our Special Love is the descendant of TWGMTR, then this is descendant of '85, particularly Passing Friend…

....did brian have anything to do with Passing Friend?

It's dependent on how someone reads the meaning of the word pandering, where it can just as easily be taken as suggesting something was done specifically to target or latch onto a specific goal, removing the notion of that artist doing exactly what they wanted to do with whomever they chose to work with. Of course musicians who work in the music business always have an eye toward reaching a bigger audience, and those that claim they do not in terms of "art" or "integrity" could ostensibly stage a show where they appear on stage and press play on a Mac laptop and begin destroying a guitar with a hammer, and call the results the performance. I guess that could be valid too if they get people to pay to see such a thing happen on stage repeatedly. But realistically, at some point even those performance artists would probably feel the need to mix things up a bit to attract more attention to their art, and might try smashing a trombone with a mallet to "mix things up" and attract a wider audience.  :)

Getting back to this collaboration in particular, I detect hints of some of the sentiments from last summer when some of the news of the collaborators started to leak out, and there were some claims that went so far as to suggest these collaborations were somehow "forced" onto Brian or onto both parties free of choice.

What if - just consider - Brian himself had heard something one of the future collaborators who will appear on the new album had recorded, really liked it or connected with it, and took the lead in reaching out to that musician with an eye toward a collaboration? There were ridiculous claims about him not being aware of some of the artists, then it came out from Brian directly that his children had a hand in suggesting he work with some current artists...don't you think through them he would have heard something, and possibly liked it enough to suggest trying to arrange a working session with that artist?

Since so much is assumed already without knowing the exact way things went down, let's consider Capital Cities. When Brian was deep in the process of writing, demo'ing, planning, etc some tracks for the upcoming album, "Safe And Sound" was getting massive airplay on commercial radio and was a pretty ubiquitous hit song that you'd hear regularly. Let's assume there was a possibility that on a random drive somewhere with the family, or on a random weekend afternoon when the kids were home and listening to music, he heard that record and simply dug the sounds and the groove? "Hey, who's that?" "Oh, that's Capital Cities, Dad!".  Maybe the trumpet hook caught Brian's attention, maybe it was the analog synth rhythm bed of that track, or maybe it had nothing to do with anything like that, but it's a possibility.

So Brian being a musician of note starts asking around and getting more info, getting the ball rolling, and it turns out there is a chance to meet up with Sebu from Capital Cities. Sebu may also have been a personal fan of Brian's work, maybe even as far as considering the way Brian used analog synths and Mini-Moogs and ARP's in the 70's to create Love You and others. So they connected, and what Brian was curious about as a producer and musician was what he heard in Sebu's work and wanted to see what it was all about, like the experienced magician getting a few new tricks from the next generation. And Sebu in return gets to do what many, many musicians have wanted to experience firsthand by working on a recording in the studio with Brian Wilson, to try to catch a glimpse of what it is that creates some of that magic that many have tried to analyze and experience from afar.

Isn't that scenario as a possibility just as valid as suggesting the two artists were crammed together to sell records and appeal to other demographics and fan bases? It's not discounting at all wanting to sell records and reach bigger audiences, but it's a different angle to view how it all came together and what could have happened to lead up to a collaboration being released as a single.

At some point, the most simple explanation - whether some want to believe it or not - of an artist like Brian hearing something new that he likes through whatever means (his family, a friend sharing a link, randomly hearing something on TV, etc)  then reaching out to the artist who created that work might have been what led to some of these collaborations.

It's just a different spin on it rather than suggesting something or anything was "forced" into happening for reasons other than choice or wanting to work with someone where there is mutual admiration for their works.

It's dependent on how someone reads the meaning of the word pandering, where it can just as easily be taken as suggesting something was done specifically to target or latch onto a specific goal, removing the notion of that artist doing exactly what they wanted to do with whomever they chose to work with. Of course musicians who work in the music business always have an eye toward reaching a bigger audience, and those that claim they do not in terms of "art" or "integrity" could ostensibly stage a show where they appear on stage and press play on a Mac laptop and begin destroying a guitar with a hammer, and call the results the performance. I guess that could be valid too if they get people to pay to see such a thing happen on stage repeatedly. But realistically, at some point even those performance artists would probably feel the need to mix things up a bit to attract more attention to their art, and might try smashing a trombone with a mallet to "mix things up" and attract a wider audience.  :)

Getting back to this collaboration in particular, I detect hints of some of the sentiments from last summer when some of the news of the collaborators started to leak out, and there were some claims that went so far as to suggest these collaborations were somehow "forced" onto Brian or onto both parties free of choice.

What if - just consider - Brian himself had heard something one of the future collaborators who will appear on the new album had recorded, really liked it or connected with it, and took the lead in reaching out to that musician with an eye toward a collaboration? There were ridiculous claims about him not being aware of some of the artists, then it came out from Brian directly that his children had a hand in suggesting he work with some current artists...don't you think through them he would have heard something, and possibly liked it enough to suggest trying to arrange a working session with that artist?

Since so much is assumed already without knowing the exact way things went down, let's consider Capital Cities. When Brian was deep in the process of writing, demo'ing, planning, etc some tracks for the upcoming album, "Safe And Sound" was getting massive airplay on commercial radio and was a pretty ubiquitous hit song that you'd hear regularly. Let's assume there was a possibility that on a random drive somewhere with the family, or on a random weekend afternoon when the kids were home and listening to music, he heard that record and simply dug the sounds and the groove? "Hey, who's that?" "Oh, that's Capital Cities, Dad!".  Maybe the trumpet hook caught Brian's attention, maybe it was the analog synth rhythm bed of that track, or maybe it had nothing to do with anything like that, but it's a possibility.

So Brian being a musician of note starts asking around and getting more info, getting the ball rolling, and it turns out there is a chance to meet up with Sebu from Capital Cities. Sebu may also have been a personal fan of Brian's work, maybe even as far as considering the way Brian used analog synths and Mini-Moogs and ARP's in the 70's to create Love You and others. So they connected, and what Brian was curious about as a producer and musician was what he heard in Sebu's work and wanted to see what it was all about, like the experienced magician getting a few new tricks from the next generation. And Sebu in return gets to do what many, many musicians have wanted to experience firsthand by working on a recording in the studio with Brian Wilson, to try to catch a glimpse of what it is that creates some of that magic that many have tried to analyze and experience from afar.

Isn't that scenario as a possibility just as valid as suggesting the two artists were crammed together to sell records and appeal to other demographics and fan bases? It's not discounting at all wanting to sell records and reach bigger audiences, but it's a different angle to view how it all came together and what could have happened to lead up to a collaboration being released as a single.

At some point, the most simple explanation - whether some want to believe it or not - of an artist like Brian hearing something new that he likes through whatever means (his family, a friend sharing a link, randomly hearing something on TV, etc)  then reaching out to the artist who created that work might have been what led to some of these collaborations.

It's just a different spin on it rather than suggesting something or anything was "forced" into happening for reasons other than choice or wanting to work with someone where there is mutual admiration for their works.

One thing to consider, for those who are bummed about Brian having newer artists doing vocals on new Brian material: IMHO... It's plainly obvious this could have been a Beach Boys album, and if Mike had just relented and not made his ego-driven writing demands, we probably would have a new Beach Boys album featuring only original Beach Boy members singing, with the added bonus of the absence of 1960s Beach Boy song title/lyric references in the lyrics. Most likely.

So, if one is in the camp of wanting to complain about Brian having other non BB-related vocalists on NPP, ultimately then, this is one more reason to be bummed at Mike. I don't see how the two can be mutually exclusive.

I'll choose to enjoy what we have with NPP, and I hope it kicks ass. I for one would rather have Brian getting to release more of his artful and sad songs without having to deal with a bandmate mock firing a gun to his head to mock the sad songs, even if that means some newer artists' vocals and less original Beach Boy member vocals.

He will claim it would have had a number one hit like kokomo if only it had his lyrics. ;)

That's the thing. If NPP actually generated a number one hit, I don't know if Mike could take it. Honestly. While I don't see a number one hit happening, who knows. Stranger things have happened...

It's dependent on how someone reads the meaning of the word pandering, where it can just as easily be taken as suggesting something was done specifically to target or latch onto a specific goal, removing the notion of that artist doing exactly what they wanted to do with whomever they chose to work with. Of course musicians who work in the music business always have an eye toward reaching a bigger audience, and those that claim they do not in terms of "art" or "integrity" could ostensibly stage a show where they appear on stage and press play on a Mac laptop and begin destroying a guitar with a hammer, and call the results the performance. I guess that could be valid too if they get people to pay to see such a thing happen on stage repeatedly. But realistically, ait some point even those performance artists would probably feel the need to mix things up a bit to attract more attention to their art, and might try smashing a trombone with a mallet to "mix things up" and attract a wider audience.  :)

Getting back to this collaboration in particular, I detect hints of some of the sentiments from last summer when some of the news of the collaborators started to leak out, and there were some claims that went so far as to suggest these collaborations were somehow "forced" onto Brian or onto both parties free of choice.

What if - just consider - Brian himself had heard something one of the future collaborators who will appear on the new album had recorded, really liked it or connected with it, and took the lead in reaching out to that musician with an eye toward a collaboration? There were ridiculous claims about him not being aware of some of the artists, then it came out from Brian directly that his children had a hand in suggesting he work with some current artists...don't you think through them he would have heard something, and possibly liked it enough to suggest trying to arrange a working session with that artist?

Since so much is assumed already without knowing the exact way things went down, let's consider Capital Cities. When Brian was deep in the process of writing, demo'ing, planning, etc some tracks for the upcoming album, "Safe And Sound" was getting massive airplay on commercial radio and was a pretty ubiquitous hit song that you'd hear regularly. Let's assume there was a possibility that on a random drive somewhere with the family, or on a random weekend afternoon when the kids were home and listening to music, he heard that record and simply dug the sounds and the groove? "Hey, who's that?" "Oh, that's Capital Cities, Dad!".  Maybe the trumpet hook caught Brian's attention, maybe it was the analog synth rhythm bed of that track, or maybe it had nothing to do with anything like that, but it's a possibility.

So Brian being a musician of note starts asking around and getting more info, getting the ball rolling, and it turns out there is a chance to meet up with Sebu from Capital Cities. Sebu may also have been a personal fan of Brian's work, maybe even as far as considering the way Brian used analog synths and Mini-Moogs and ARP's in the 70's to create Love You and others. So they connected, and what Brian was curious about as a producer and musician was what he heard in Sebu's work and wanted to see what it was all about, like the experienced magician getting a few new tricks from the next generation. And Sebu in return gets to do what many, many musicians have wanted to experience firsthand by working on a recording in the studio with Brian Wilson, to try to catch a glimpse of what it is that creates some of that magic that many have tried to analyze and experience from afar.

Isn't that scenario as a possibility just as valid as suggesting the two artists were crammed together to sell records and appeal to other demographics and fan bases? It's not discounting at all wanting to sell records and reach bigger audiences, but it's a different angle to view how it all came together and what could have happened to lead up to a collaboration being released as a single.

At some point, the most simple explanation - whether some want to believe it or not - of an artist like Brian hearing something new that he likes through whatever means (his family, a friend sharing a link, randomly hearing something on TV, etc)  then reaching out to the artist who created that work might have been what led to some of these collaborations.

It's just a different spin on it rather than suggesting something or anything was "forced" into happening for reasons other than choice or wanting to work with someone where there is mutual admiration for their works.

That's the thing. If NPP actually generated a number one hit, I don't know if Mike could take it. Honestly. While I don't see a number one hit happening, who knows. Stranger things have happened...

A number one single is virtually impossible. A number one album is nearly impossible. But a relatively high chart placement on the album charts (Top 50, maybe even Top 20, and in a perfect storm Top 10) for NPP is possible.

The thing is, TWGMTR hit #3 and Mike minimized that in an interview, which showed either an unwillingness to relent that Brian can or should write the bulk of the material without Mike, and/or a gross lack of understanding of how charts are tabulated and how the industry trends are going. It seemed to me to be some of both.

When was the last time the Beach Boys had "sustained" success on any chart (as in, I dunno, staying in the Top 5 or 10 on the singles or albums charts for numerous weeks)? Even "Kokomo" was #1 for like one week or so, right?

In any event, I don't think Mike would have a nervous break down if NPP hit #1. Maybe behind the scenes he would be supremely annoyed or irked. But if that happened and he was asked about it, I would imagine the response would be along the lines of his statement about "The Right Time."

A number one single is virtually impossible. A number one album is nearly impossible. But a relatively high chart placement on the album charts (Top 50, maybe even Top 20, and in a perfect storm Top 10) for NPP is possible.

The thing is, TWGMTR hit #3 and Mike minimized that in an interview, which showed either an unwillingness to relent that Brian can or should write the bulk of the material without Mike, and/or a gross lack of understanding of how charts are tabulated and how the industry trends are going. It seemed to me to be some of both.

When was the last time the Beach Boys had "sustained" success on any chart (as in, I dunno, staying in the Top 5 or 10 on the singles or albums charts for numerous weeks)? Even "Kokomo" was #1 for like one week or so, right?

In any event, I don't think Mike would have a nervous break down if NPP hit #1. Maybe behind the scenes he would be supremely annoyed or irked. But if that happened and he was asked about it, I would imagine the response would be along the lines of his statement about "The Right Time."

The charts are so fragmented nowadays, it basically means nothing to chart high.  It's like being the best ballerina in Cincinnati...who gives a sh*t?

One thing to consider, for those who are bummed about Brian having newer artists doing vocals on new Brian material: IMHO... It's plainly obvious this could have been a Beach Boys album, and if Mike had just relented and not made his ego-driven writing demands, we probably would have a new Beach Boys album featuring only original Beach Boy members singing, with the added bonus of the absence of 1960s Beach Boy song title/lyric references in the lyrics. Most likely.

So, if one is in the camp of wanting to complain about Brian having other non BB-related vocalists on NPP, ultimately then, this is one more reason to be bummed at Mike. I don't see how the two can be mutually exclusive.

I'll choose to enjoy what we have with NPP, and I hope it kicks ass. I for one would rather have Brian getting to release more of his artful and sad songs without having to deal with a bandmate mock firing a gun to his head to mock the sad songs, even if that means some newer artists' vocals and less original Beach Boy member vocals.

Pretty much spot on.  From reading the interview Brian Wilson did a few weeks back where he talked about the new record, the upcoming film and The Beach Boys, it seems to me that Mike Love is the definition of persona non grata in the Wilson world.  Everything I read communicated to me that Brian Wilson just doesn't want to do business with his cousin anymore...washed his hands of him if you will.  As far as Mike Love's take on the situation, any time he's ready I'm sure many folks will be all ears.

I'm really anticipating this new record.  Unlike OSD however, I would've taken Mike Love and Bruce Johnston contributing to this record over any of the guest stars.  Mike still has one of the best bass voices in the business and I always regarded Bruce Johnston as underrated as well.  The problem lies in the idea that if Mike Love was involved with this record, would it have taken it's current form?  If Mike Love was willing to go along with Brian Wilson's musical direction for this project then I would have no problem with him being a part of it.  By his participation alone he would've made it better.  On the other hand if Mike Love's involvement would've mutated the record into a less desirable form, then it's probably best he sat out.  

So it's really a double edged sword.  Mike Love can still contribute mightily to any project based on his talents alone.  The alleged conflicts that seem to arise however from a Wilson/Love collaborative effort though well you would have to ask yourself if the ends would suit the means.

I find it pointless to pit The Beach Boys against one another in competition based on historical examples. Rather, consider what the beachboys could accomplish together if their hearts were open to shared creativity and accomplishment. but all such accomplishment is contingent upon both cooperation and also inspiration. If the Beach Boys were to reunite I would only hope that they would be inspired to transcend any of their individual or collective weaknesses or failed creations of the past. while the reunion  is only theoretical it is impossible to judge what they would potentially accomplish in that imaginary future.

The name Brian Wilson has never been commercially successful on it's own and I doubt that this album will change it. Runaway Dancer alienates Brian's and the Beach Boys' audience and won't attract a new one. A miscalculation.

That's the thing. If NPP actually generated a number one hit, I don't know if Mike could take it. Honestly. While I don't see a number one hit happening, who knows. Stranger things have happened...

Hopefully somebody can answer this:

The instrumentation... has Brian got an entirely new band on this new album? 

It sounds to me like he started working with a lot of new musicians, and because of his generally collaborative way of coming up with music in the studio, they've led him in new directions.


Personally, I like the song, but all I've heard is the live version on youtube.