The Smiley Smile Message Board

Something that's always bothered me, why is it that on the studio tapes, for instance the recording of "God Only Knows" in particular stands out, when Brian talks from the control booth... there's all kinds of crap on the line?  It pops, cracks, and basically you can't hear a f'in thing that's going on because it blows your eardrums out if you turn up the volume enough to hear them talking.

Is that because of some kind of way the intercom was reacting with all of the microphones or something, or is it just because the intercom tapes were recorded seperately on a bad quality media, and then mixed back over the session recordings?

Well, If you're talking about anybody talking to Brian from the floor, they're just speaking and whatever mics in the area would be sending that into the booth.  If the person speaking was not on axis to a mic or was a good ways back from one, it would just be very quiet.

If you're talking about Brian speaking from the control booth to the floor, I'm not sure I agree that there's always bad quality audio.  But if there is, there are a few factors.  One, the talkback mic may have been cheaper, two, the circuit used in sending Brian's mic through the system may have been noisy.  Three, there was air conditioning, people talking, and all kinds of noise being picker up when the talkback mic was switched on.

Also, the switch that activated the talkback mic was often very noisy, that's a source of clicks and pops.

Still, "grateful are the little children" that we have these tapes!
 :p

Craig

It does sound like it might be the switch... but I'm not talking about just a little fuzz or something on the line, it's like "PAPPPPP!!! guys, take it from the top PAPPPPP!!!again!"

Yeah that's the talkback mic switch. Must have been a big old chunky thing that wasn't earthed properly.

Yeah, and since its an old mic which is on one of those metallic/compressed slinky mic stands I think it makes a lot of noise (the PRAAAAP type sound) everytime he moves it around. So lets say he gets on the talkback and starts talking and hten moves the mic a little closer then away or whatever, you'll notice how it makes that noise a lot.

What makes me think that is during the Help me Murry sessions when you hear a lot of that noise youre describin, you hear murry say something like 'what are you doing?' and brian replies with 'I wanna get this on tape' so it seems like he was moving the mic over to Murry's direction.

O.K., thank you all for helping me understand that more.  I always want to turn it up so I can hear what the guys in the studio are saying in response to Brian, and like aeijtzsche said, you can't hear them well if they're not in front of a microphone.. .but if you turn it up to hear them, Brian kills you with the talkback mic. 

I know whatca mean...everytime I write one of my essays, I suffer a little bit of hearing loss...
:)

Craig

I'm currently editing what I've got of this session stuff into listenable CD's. It's not really much fun listening to endless false starts punctuated by earpiercing CLACKs from the talkback mic. So to enable myself to actually enjoy the music I'm editing the sessions down, removing useless false starts, editing out that bloody CLACK sound wherever possible or reducing the volume drastically at that precise point, removing long passages of low level murmer or silence. I'm also rebalancing the stereo as there seems to have been no attempt to mix these sessions sensibly. It's as if they just put the faders on desk to halfway and then didn't touch them again.
Basically as they stand the Sea of Tunes CDs are virtually unlistenable. Apart from the shoddy mixing and constant earshredding from the talkback mic, the REPETITION of take after take (especially during the vocal overdubbing) of the same song drains my patience and  enjoyment of the song. Plus the neighbours must think I'm nuts listening to God Only Knows for one whole hour. They're probably right !
By hacking down the sessions into complete or nearly complete takes, leaving in particularly interesting comments and jokes, and adding 2 or 3 of the most interesting vocal overdubs it is possible to make MUCH more pleasurable CDs.
Takes bloody ages though, especially with an eight month old baby demanding most of your free time.

Well, that just shows you how different people are.  If it were me and I felt like there was some reason I needed to edit a session down, I would edit out the complete takes and leave in the false starts, the meaningless chatter, and best of all the talkback mic.

We must , have to, there's no way we're not, be talking about two different things.  You can't hear a frieki'n thing because of the noise the mic makes when he's done, or starting to talk. 

I've honestly never thought about it negatively before.  It's never bothered me in the slightest.

If you have an editing software you can crank the volume between the pops and either lower the pops or take them out. That's what I do when I want to hear the session banter.

How do you hear what they're saying, then? 

I'm with aeijtzsche here, the talkback mike's never bothered me.  Any specific session on SOT or the Pet Sounds box you're talking about? 

Never bothered me either, I love hearing that talkback come on just to see what Brian is going to say!

Or, sometimes, Murry !

Yes, the famous "God Only Knows" session where they come up with the staccato portion in the middle.  I'm not sure who it is in the studio, but when he's instructing the others, you have to turn it up to hear it then the talkback crack is so loud it kills you.  All through the tapes it's like that if you're trying to turn something up to hear them in the studio.

     False starts don't bother me.  What does bother me, though, are the cut up sessions!  I've asked Alan Boyd and Mark Linett about them before but I've never gotten a definitive answer.  Were these session tapes cut up by bootleggers, or souvenier hunters?  I have to say that doesn't make much sense since many times you get the start and/or the finish of the take.  So if someone was cutting them up wouldn't they have cut out the whole take?  My mind still boggles over this question.  Has anyone ever come up with the reason so many of the sessions tapes survive only in this cut up fashion?  


     Love and merci,   Dan Lega

It's bootleggers that present sessions that way for the most part.  Of course, on official releases, they edit the sessions down for time, but in most cases the complete session tape of any given session (assming a session tape exists) does exist in the vault.

Yeah me too. I'm not throwing away my copies of the complete sessions. I'm simply making myself some CD's I can listen to more often, and which give a smoother ride along the way. I've listened to the Cds dozens of times already, so I've heard all the comments and banter. Sometimes I'd just like to hear the Wreckin' Crew rocking their balls off, rather than minutes on end of goofing off and takes which never make it past the intro. Also what I said about the mixing is true. Some of the tracks are very lopsided, there are pitch problems, and huge variations in sound levels. But there sure is some beautiful music in there. And that's why I'm listening at the end of the day.

So you're saying that as far as you know the tapes stored in the archives are not cut up?  That would be great news.  I think Alan said that, too. 

However, I still have my worries.  Because, while most of the SOT discs feature full, uncut up sessions, aren't there a few "SMiLE" sessions that are "cut up"?  I would have thought the bootleggers would not have skimped on presenting all the "SMiLE" material they could have.  Anyway, maybe once the Beach Boy Legal Bootleg store opens then we'll find out for sure.

In the same vein, do you or Alan know the specifics of the "Session with the Big Daddy" Earl Leaf segment from Today and SOT?  There does not seem to be a bit of overlap in the SOT and finished track.  Was the finished track a completely different take or was the finished track snipped out of the SOT session, thereby, no overlap?

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

I think the bootleggers did it, on takes that pretty much sound the same over and over again, to save space.  CD's are only 80 minutes long, and I would imagine the Smile SOT's would be like 10 CD's if they hadn't cut anything out.

Didn't the beatles use to scrub a lot of takes by rewinding the tape and reusing it?  The BB's didn't do that did they? It would explain the cuts. 

Is the part where they come up with the staccato part on the GV box set traking session?  At what point does it come on, cause I think I missed it.

sorry to bump this old thread, really interesting though.

The Boys would do that, too.  That's why on "Salt Lake City", for instance, the tape starts with the final takes, then you hear the last part of the rehearsals, then the early takes.  When they got to the end of the tape, if the master take wasn't achieved yet, they would rewind and record over until they got the final take.

If you listen closely to the "alternate" "Bull Session" from the SOT collection, you'll notice parts that fit with parts on the original...and you can clearly hear edits on the original.  Go to my essays on www.beachboysarchives.com (especially the "Today!" outtakes essay, where I describe the "alternate" version).  I expain where the various cuts were made.  It sounds like they cut certain parts out and transferred them to an alternate reel for the album version. 

I doubt SOT left out or edited out many takes or false starts from the SMile tapes - they had previously released 4 CD box sets of sessions, if they could have squeezed out a fourth sessions disc for Smile they would have.  As it is, they did edit some very minor take announcements and short (a few seconds) false starts, as can be heard on a subsequently released boot - but no complete takes or long false starts.

so if you leave the bootlegger out, you've got the bootlegger source, whoever he/she may be, who copied the tapes in the first place.  Tape running out while copying could necessitate an edit, but you wouldn't think this many.  Maybe to fit the stuff on whatever tape the copier was using, they were editing/cutting off false starts on the fly?

I don't think Brian/Chuck would have edited the tapes in the way we hear them - as mentioned, they would have just taped over the beginning of the tape rather than rewind back over part of the last take.  BUT when Stephen and Carl copied all of the Smile tapes, they may have edited them down to what they felt were useful takes for a reconstruction of Smile and cut most of the rest.  And Carl mentioned how the tape of Old Master Painter got thrown out by mistake and had to be spliced back together, which would explain the cuts on that session tape.