The Smiley Smile Message Board

This, from the Blueboard - David Pack, mastermind of Ambrosia, co-writer of Jack Wagner's "All I Need" (with Glen Ballard, Svengali for Alanis Morissette!), and more recently involved in country music, is, according to his website... "Inside story: David recently met with Brian Wilson for a top-secret MAJOR project of the future...stay tuned!"

One other thing about David Pack - seems he can't keep a secret worth sh*t!

You say "Country" ? And there's talk about a reunion.... so:

Stars & Stripes vol. 2 ?   ;D

I may have misspoken there - seems that in popular music of all kinds, there is a need for pros who can supply what I call 'gloop'. This guy can do it, in spades.

Didn't Glen Ballard also work with Wilson Phillips?

Brian Wilson is collaborating with someone on songs. Why the desire to keep it "top secret"?

Edit: Mr. Moderator, my avatar seems to have disappeared. Do you know where it is?

Something is wrong with the link. You should try another host, I think the one you're using is down.

If this is true, one word:  ugh.   Didn't they learn anything from "Imagination"?  No more MOR, please, either disguised as country or not.  It really doesn't get much worse than Ambrosia and Jack Wagner.

Oh who knows. It could be some compilation album that Brian is contributing to. I don't think BW's folks are that keen on him collaborating with a lot of outside hacks, outside of the trusted few.

Well maybe we'll all be surprised. If we got what we wanted out of an artist all the time, the world would be so boring because we would know what would be coming.  ;D

With Brian Wilson's solo career in the shape it is now, I'd prefer getting what we wanted out of him all the time.

I'd settle for getting SOMETHING out of him so we can dissect it and argue over it. It makes my job here fun.  ;D

SMiLE sucks....

*said just to get a few folks riled up.... and make Billy's job here more fun*

-GoofyJeff
who loves SMiLE

BANNED~!  :police:
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LOL  I knew you'd like that, Billy   :)

What ever happened to VDP? I thought I heard they were going to work on some tunes. Is that not happening?

I'm not neccesarily opposed to Brian working with a collaborator or even another producer to co-produce or produce Brian. I'm not even neccesarily opposed to a collaborator being the majority part of some of those collaborations, as long as the material is good.

Brian clearly has produced hit-and-miss quality material as a solo artist in recent years, "Smile" aside (especially since we're talking about "new" material). After Joe Thomas made "Imagination" cringe-worthy for some fans (a possible example of a collaborator not bettering Brian's music), many fans called for Brian to just record and produce himself, perhaps even just take fairly recent unreleased songs and put them together for a new album. Well, we got exactly that on "Gettin' In Over My Head." While I don't dislike that album nearly as much as, say, Andrew G. Doe has said he does, I think many fans will agree that that album indicates that Brian is both short on new song ideas and unable or unwilling to really craft a high quality album of new songs.

I've always hoped Brian would work with Jeff Lynne again. The one song they did together on the '88 album, "Let It Shine", is one of the best songs on that album. Yes, a potential collaboration with Lynne in terms of songwriting and production would mean we'd be getting more Lynne than Brian in some ways. But again, I don't think it's a bad thing if Brian works with somebody else and lets the other person carry much of the weight, so long as the material and production is good. It doesn't have to sound "Smile-esque" or even overtly "Beach Boys-like." I'd much rather hear something like "Let It Shine" even if it sounds like Brian performing a Jeff Lynne song, than hear something contrived like "South American."

As much as I do like seeing "Produced by Brian Wilson" on Brian's recent and present projects, I don't think it has to be that way. I think perhaps BB/Brian fans are scared off from outside producers controlling things on an album based on some rather iffy results in the past (Steve Levine, Joe Thomas). It's a bad idea to let somebody else run the show instead of Brian, but only if the person running the show isn't producing quality material. I would not be the slightest bit put off by somebody else coming in to produce Brian and perhaps even write or co-write for him, if the material is high quality. Brian's place in history as a producer and songwriter is secure, so I don't see a problem with having a new album with, say some co-writes with Andy Paley, Jeff Lynne, etc. and a "Produced by Jeff Lynne and Brian Wilson" tag.

I'm not suggesting Brian sell out. I don't want to see a "duets" album, nor do I want to see Brian trying to get contemporary (i.e. "Smart Girls"). The material can sound retro, 60's, poppy, whatever, and still have a lot of imput from somebody else.

Maybe if Brian is working with this new guy Pack, the material will be good. If, on the other hand, Pack is simply being brought in to make Brian "contemporary", or if he's being brought in to write "Beach Boys-esque" material, or if he's being brought in simply to slightly re-write lyrics to old unreleased songs (i.e. "She Says That She Needs Me", "You've Touched Me"), then I can't imagine that has a high chance or producing high quality results. But who knows?

Bring on the live and studio outtakes via the new BB website. That's where the high quality material remains in terms of the BB's.

Perhaps Brian is, right now, just another musician in search of his demographic.

Actually, Brian has been putting out some new songs. There is "Believe in yourself" from the Duck Dodgers cartoon, "Walking in the Path of Life", and the two new songs from the Christmas album.

Someone young and hip might light a fire under Brian.  If I was looking for someone....I wouldn't necesarily look for a "name".  Cut some tracks and if the chemistry is no good, don't release it.  Brian might be best served by a young collaborator/producer who's not a fan so-to-speak.  It's been done with pretty good success with other aging artists.

...why not Rick Rubin? He did wonders for Johnny Cash...

I don't know anything for sure, but I got vibes from the last couple of interviews with Brian or Van Dyke that they don't really like each other, lol. 

I think Brian clumsily said something in one like "We respect each other a lot, but aren't really friends". 

Kind of strange that they recorded 2 entire albums together and now don't like each other, I wonder what happened?

I honestly don't think they ever really *did*. Brian had made some comments right after OCA was done, and apparently REALLY despised one of the tracks (I think it was "This Town goes down at Sunset"). Also, remember the comment Brian made when he was drunk at Ringo Starr's birthday party...

Totally agree on this choice. Rick has had success with a number of artists hasn't he? I wonder if they (management) feel that Rick Rubin would change Brian's "sound" too much?

I think he needs someone without their own sound or style. Brian certainly has his own sound and style; what he needs is someone who he'll listen to if they say, "Not a good idea, Brian, and here's why...". That is, without Brian losing his confidence.

Having said that, I'm just not sure who that person is.

What comment did Brian make at Ringo's birthday party?

I wish Brian and his organization would figure out that people see Brian as a legendary wacked out musical genius and that they should run with that image . He should not concern himself with being "hip" or more listener-friendly to the public. Basicly, he should do whatever he wants to do without worrying about things not related to the music.

"Van Dyke Parks is a butthole!"

You know...I was thinking just now...maybe they should play that up, you know? Let him write/record whatever the hell he wants, lyrics included. It definitely won't be commercial, but we might get some strange gems. Just let Darian produce Brian's vocals, though.

I think this is what happened with The Beach Boys Love You. While there was obviously genius at work there, there were also some moments on that album that could be considered embarrassing, or at the very least unsettling..

I believe that as great as The Beach Boys Love you is, it was also the last straw in letting Brian do whatever he wanted to do. It's almost as lf the people in charge (with The Beach Boys and in his solo career) made a conscious attempt to "normalize" his recordings, and you can hear what we were left with...

Rubin and Brian worked on the new Neil Diamond LP. Brian's work is a bonus on the vinyl version. go to www.vinylmatters.com to order it

Yeah, the 'crazy genius' idea would be pretty cool. 

Just let him sing things like "PIEDDD PIPPPAAA, I BETTA GET BACK IN BEDDDDDDD!!!"

I would love that.  It would be good to friek friends out with. 

I don't think it's accurate to say Brian and VDP don't like each other. In fact, I'd argue quite the opposite. Certainly, they're certainly very different kinds of people -- everyone in the world who isn't Brian is a very different person from Brian. And maybe Brian isn't always sensitive to Van Dyke's wants or needs. Recall, for instance, that he announced the "Smile" revival, tour dates and so on, without even telling VDP that he had any plans for their old collaboration. That didn't make VDP very happy, and understandably so. But the moment Brian did call -- needing to decipher lyrics for "Roll Plymouth Rock" VDP was there to help. Just as he'd helped the Boys nail down their Warner's contract in '70, and intervened to help drag "Sail On, Sailor" out of Brian when the BB's needed to plug a hole in "Holland."  Brian's reputation, and the "Smile" legend, certainly added to VDP's lustre over the years, it's true. And when Brian asked if he could come up to help finish the rest of the third movement, he was there again. Just like Brian was there for VDP to add his vocals (and commercial buzz) to "Orange Crate Art."

So it's not as simple as "do they like each other," or if Brian once called VDP a "butthead." In '76 he told Lorne MIchael's camera that VDP was his favorite collaborator, ever.  He may have said something different ten minutes later, but that's Brian: a visceral being, floating in his internal breeze, saying exactly what he feels at the moment he feels it.

Forty years after they first got together, those guys may not hang out much. They may not have a lot to talk about. But their professional and creative lives are inextricably linked. And it's done both of them a world of good, wouldn't you say?

Very good post, Peter.



But I personally think an album like that would actually work better now than it did back then. Maybe that's just me, though.

Ugh god...I hear you about Imagination and Joe Thomas' production.

For one thing, the whole album sounds very childish...like a Phil Spector production on some music box noise.  Brian's already stunted enough from medications and other factors in the personable sense.  I don't know...we shouldn't have been too surprised.  The guy (Thomas) had a mullet in anti-redneck 1998 for crying out loud.

And it seems like anyone who's worked with Brian usually disappears quickly on bad terms sooner or later.   I don't know how anyone would be able to work along with the "politics" - for lack of a better description - that involves the Brian Camp and keep a straight head.

Just throw him Darian and call it done.   He's the best candidate and has proven himself highly worthy of hovering in both  Brian-Spaceland and the real world.

Still, I'd be more interested to hear him with someone different - someone who could take him outside his comfort zone a bit. Also, someone who has a name and an outside rep. Darian is basically his musical secretary, right? (Well, maybe a bit more.)

And cta - thanks for telling who your avatar is in the signature. I coulda swore it was Redd Foxx in a turban...