The Smiley Smile Message Board

I wasn't deep into BB history or lore back in 1998, but I was blown away by this song when I listened to the soundtrack.

What was the reaction among hard core fandom? 
Had this been widely booted?
 If not, was anybody aware that it existed?
 In short, how surprised were you by it in 1998? 

I went from not ever hearing the faintest rumor of its existence to a complete mind-blowing revelation as I listened to it. Just wonder if it rocked the BB Fan world as much as it rocked mine at the time.

I hadn't heard of Soulful Old Man Sunshine until I bought Endless Harmony back in 1999. I, too, was fully blown away by how amazing the song was. It's definitely one of my favorite Beach Boys songs from the late 60s. I just love those incredible harmonies. I can't remember which book it was from...someone described it as sounding like a shampoo commercial. Whatever, I disagree. It's an incredible upbeat jazzy pop number. Carl's 'flubbing' (Shunshine) doesn't bug me in the least. Love it...

Liked it a LOT.  GLAD to have it now after the fact.  Maybe just a touch too 'bright' Sunflower?  Haven't really thought about dropping it in there 'til today.  Kind of lost in between projects like Breakaway, Lool De Loop and Celebrate the News.  Good tuneage but maybe not quite right for the album???

Yes, I was definitely blown away the first time I heard it too. I was also unaware of it's existence. I thought it was a real missed opportunity for the band as well. It had such a full, spacious vocal sound. I think the general public would immeadiately recognize it as being The Beach Boys, yet it sounded unlike anything they had done up to that point.

And I think it would have fit in well with what was currently on the radio around 1969. It just had that vibe and sound. Think of "Build Me Up Buttercup", "Good Morning Starshine", "More Today Than Yesterday", and probably several others I can't remember right now.

I broke the scoop about "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" in ESQ in 1994.  I was in L.A. for the Brian Wilson Tribute at the Morgan-Wixon Theatre, and Elliot Kendall got me an invite to Rick Henn's house.  Before that I had scored a lead sheet for "Soulful" from Rockaway Records, and I had heard Manfred Schmidt's excellent, but slower-tempoed re-creation from the lead sheet on the IN MY ROOM tribute cassette (which Rick was very complimentary of).  But when Rick played me "Soulful," my jaw hit the floor.  I described it in as much detail as I could remember in the next issue of ESQ.  But I didn't hear it again until Endless Harmony was being compiled.

Hearing it for the first time at Rick's house is still one of the highlights of my time as a Beach Boys collector.

Lee

I can't believe it wasn't an A Side, let alone not being released at all for over a couple decades. I just can't fathom them letting this one slip away when they were all upset to one extent or another over their sales slipping so much at that point. I guess I can't say for sure if it would have been a huge seller or anything, but I still think it would have went down as a highlight of that era.

I think it would have been pretty perfect on Sunflower, maybe as a track 1 or 2 or as the opener for side B.

You're talking about co-writer Rick Henn, right Lee?

Carl supposedly vetoed the song's inclusion from the Good Vibrations box set due to his singing Shunshine" instead of "Sunshine" about two minutes in. Less picky heads prevailed and it eventually came out on Endless Harmony five years later (soon after Carl passed).

That's really interesting. I came to the impression--from what I have read around here and on predecessor boards, I suppose--that the version on Endless Harmony was edited together and mixed from raw tapes without the Beach Boys' direct involvement, about which easily could be mistaken, as while I pay attention, I don't pretend to be a scholar about it. But if that's true (or even close to true), I guess I always assumed that happened somewhere near the time of that album, not five years earlier. Do you know or recall whether you heard the version used there, or some other, separately assembled version?

Yup, co-writer, arranger, and producer.

My iPad was fighting with me over the word "Henn," and it got deleted altogether.

Mikie is correct; Rick (with Daryl Dragon) assembled his edit in 1993 for the GOOD VIBRATIONS box set, but it was rejected.  That's the version I heard, and that's the version Alan and Mark used on ENDLESS HARMONY.  But I think Rick also played Elliot and me some of the session outtakes.  I vaguely remember him playing a couple of attempts at the a cappella intro, with the guys laughing about how great it sounded.

Lee

(Dang, my iPad doesn't like "Mikie" either...)

Yeah, a missed opportunity if there ever was one. I was blown away by it the first time I heard the Endless Harmony CD. That would've been the smash single the group needed had they been able to complete it.

Some great discussion about "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" from last year over on the Steve Hoffman board, including highlights from my interview with Rick Henn, and some great comments from Stephen Desper:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-soulful-old-man-sunshine-whats-up-with-the-sound.276506/

Thanks a lot for posting this!

The first post, about the phasing - it sounds like someone took a mono verse and tried to put it through some kind of filter to "stereoize" it to match the rest of the song. I really, really dislike this aspect of the mix. I edited the verse to be in true mono, and while it's not ideal, it sounds a lot better.

You nailed it -- Stephen Desper goes on to talk about the use of the Orban Stereo Synthesizer on SOMS.

Lee

Yeah, another big thanks - what a great read - and hopefully a study vid may one day be with us - thanks Lee and Stephen

I have to say I love this song like it's nobodys business, however, I believe it would have tanked just like Breakaway did. Sad but true.

I totally agree.  What would have been de rigueur in, say, 1966, was unfortunately passé by 1969 (do I get bonus points for using two French phrases in the same sentence?).

I see that a lot in Brian's music.  "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" is so accurate -- he was ahead of his time in so many ways, but behind the times in just as many others.

Lee

I was blown away by the tune, and it was basically used as the theme song for the Endless Harmony documentary, to great effect. It really sums up the Beach Boys sound in so many ways. Hard to believe it never got a proper release in the 7os. I'm skeptical that it would have made much of a dent in the charts, but who knows?

the demo is also a delight, Brian is in great form. I'd love to know who wrote what on this tune.

"one, two... a-one, two, three... take off!"

This was unbooted, and there was a lot of fan anticipation when it was announced to be on the tracklist for Endless Harmony. That compilation ess such a treat for hardcore fans. Overall, the reception was positive when it came out, and it did live up to its by then legendary status (at least for most fans). I think that in terms of individual tracks, only WIBNTLA had more legendary status and anticipation leading up to its release.

This song kicked my BB-obsession to the next level. I mean, I already knew they are the greatest band in the world with the best songs, but hearing this... When the voices come in one by one in the middle eight, it felt like somebody kicked down my inner door of perception, and then that "heyyyyyy" part, it was like an explosion of light fooding into my head.

So yeah, it definitely made an impact. Still one of my fave songs of all time.

I read Lee's article on it in 1994. And shared the enormous anticipation among fans for this track.

A few years later I heard it and meh..... Overrated, if you ask me. Sometimes that happens when superfans hype the music they've just been privy to and you weren't. Happened with Lazy Lizzie. Happened with You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin'. Happened with the Paley sessions. Some of this music is good, or very good. Some of it I cherish. But the hype created for it, surpasses by far the actual results. MHO

I'm not so sure it would have tanked as much, but probably would not have gone to #1 either.

I was blown away, too, much more than by other tracks that were unearthed long after their time. It shows how good the boys were at that point to deliver such a performance on a song they're not interested in at all.

We certainly can agree to disagree, because it was as exciting to me the second time I heard it (when Alan was compiling ENDLESS HARMONY) as it was the first time, four years earlier.  It still has a place on my one-CDR/80 minute compilation of my favorite Beach Boys tracks.

Lee

My jaw dropped when I first heard this on the EH soundtrack. Outstanding, fully produced … etc etc etc. overjoyed it had reached my ears and was an utter surprise; but always wondered what impact it might have had at the time. I disagree that it sounds dated. It still sounds incredibly vibrant, and very optimistic to me.

To each their own, I think. A bubblegum effort, overblown vocal arrangement, not much of a song in there, and a half-arsed lead from Carl. As exciting as it is to hear the busy vocal arrangement, I don't think there is much to this song.

I may have heard vague references to the song, and I think I remember reading the title in one of the lists in Brad Elliott's book, but I'd never heard the song. The only time it ever made an appearance was on that In My Room fan-recorded charity album (featuring a couple of tracks from Nick and Darian) in which sales went to help the homeless in California. Someone did a cover of "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" on that  album, but it was an interpretation done from sheet music someone found. Melodically, it's pretty similar to what's on Endless Harmony.

I remember very well the day Endless Harmony came out in 1998. I bought it, popped it into my portable CD player in my car (played through the stereo via cassette adapter, of course), and just played it from the start. I was still driving through the Best Buy parking lot when the fully-produced version of "SOMS" came up, and just the first few seconds of it just freakin' blew me away...the vocals...oh, Gawd, the vocals...wow...

Heh...what I REALLY remember was not knowing exactly what that "Heroes and Villains" demo contained, and I nearly drove off the road and a tree off Theodore Street in Crest Hill, Illinois when I heard that magic phrase "I'm in the great shape..."

Agreed.

When "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" was first released, I recall it being highly regarded. Many called it a lost classic. Some still do. I think what it has going for it is novelty value. If you've heard everything the BBs did a million times, "SOMS" is a breath of fresh air. It's a quality pop song with a full production. I don't see it as a lost hit, though. If "Friends" and "Breakaway" weren't good enough for Americans, this wouldn't have worked either. I see the UK charting it decently, though.

If "Breakaway" was never released back then, we'd be screaming about how it was a lost #1. The American public sucked, lol.

I bought Breakaway...up in Toronto.  It was, if memory serves, the VERY FIRST stereo 45 I ever owned...with Dennis' Celebrate the News [also in stereo] on the flip side.

The Beach Boys had cooked their goose.  Too little over too wide a gap in time.  They were yesterday's news.  It wouldn't have mattered what they released.  And live?  Those were the days when Mike was on stage 'mincing'.   :o  It was just agonizing... :'( ...and off-putting.  >:(

I saw them in Summer 69 and again in early 72 and he was dressed fairly normal in 69 and as a Carnival barker in 72. Didn't notice him mincing on stage at either show. Nor was he mincing on the two Good Vibration shows that aired on TV between 1970 and 1972. He did the Jagger moves in 1975-76, but that toned down too by 1977-78.
 
The biggest gap in output was only between Pet Sounds and Smiley Smile or Good Vibrations to Heroes & Villains single-wise. They had 2 albums in 67, one each from 68 through 73. 3 Singles in 67, 2 in 68 and 2 in 69. I wouldn't say the gap was all that wide.

My first reaction upon hearing the opening harmonies of this song back in 98 was... "Holy sh*t!!!".  I couldn't believe it.  How was this unreleased?

However.. for me the rest of the song didn't quite live up to that stunning opening acapella part.  I never really liked the instrumental track that much,  but the harmonies throughout are really nice.   Mike and Carl sound especially good in the harmony stack.

Ya Doc...Listen to Live in London and you'll hear what I'm talking about.  In terms of the gap...they had HUGE presence with Pet Sounds and all things leading up to and also connected to it...plus that gawd awful first Best Of album...PLUS Good Vibrations.  Gigantic hit.  Then... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... and ... ... ... ... ... ... ... and ... Followed by still no album ... ... ... and Heroes and Villains and ... ... ... ... ... and Smiley Smile which they snuck in the back door of the record shops and hid on the shleves where it wouldn't be seen.  The reaction?  y a w n...that's a gap.  So they rush recorded and released Wild Honey and while Darlin did OK...it was still more over-all y a w n and gappage.  It was ... ... ... ... ... pretty much done.  So much so that really, REALLY great albums like 20/20 [which also had some hits on it] Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, Carl and the Passions [which really didn't yield any hits] and Holland which would eventually see Sail On Sailor enjoy a bit of recognition all pretty much stiffed...at least in Beach Boys terms and numbers.

They were no longer relevant.  They were OUTSTANDING and immensely talented.  And almost nobody gave a rat's butt.  ['cept for us died-in-the-wool fans.  but we were geeks.]

I agree with you that they became irrelevant. They didn't really play hard rock, weren't quite psychedelic enough, were too old for the bubblegum crowd. They kind of were their own thing and listeners didn't catch on. Not releasing Smile did hurt them, but I'm still not convinced that it would have made the impact that some here think it would have, especially with the hard rock crowd. Their's was as much a perception issue than the actual music. They were considered square until JR re-imagined them, to coin a phrase. ;)

As for Mike, I think that was his trying to sound "High" and nonchalant cool talk. I've seen them enough times between 69 and 73 to question your mincing term, though. Those must of all been his manly concerts that I saw. ;)

Fair enough, I disagree, but to each his own.

Fair enough, I disagree, but to each his own.

Fair enough, I disagree, but to each his own.

A LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED.

 :lol

Carl was extraordinary! But this is a scratch vocal, not unlike "Go and get that girl" and "Waves of love". Not up to his standards.

I feel like folks only treat these vocals differently knowing they're scratch vocals. Like, if that knowledge hadn't been put out there, they wouldn't be scrutinized so much and they'd be considered as good as about any other vocal he did during that time.

Regardless, a Carl Wilson scratch vocal still beats a lot of other folks' best, I could never go as far as to call his work on "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" etc. "half-assed". :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Spot on.

I've said this before here, but when they had all the momentum going into 15 Big Ones, I can't believe the boys didn't kill a couple of the covers and put Soulful Old Man Sunshine (with Carl fixing his flub) and San Miguel (fine as is).

The album needed more originals, and while I can understand leaving stuff like WIBNTLA and Carry Me Home to keep a "fun in the sun" sound like Endless Summer, there's no excuse for putting out lame covers while gems like that were available.

Who cares if they had been recorded years earlier? They would have been "new" to 99.9 percent of the public in 1976 and really boosted the quality of 15 Big Ones.

That might very well be the case! :-D

The fact that Carl's vocals was a scratch vocal makes me all the more admire how good they were at the time. Other singers would have loved to be that good after trying for days!

Hoping you meant "dyed in the wool".  Otherwise we would be a pretty boring bunch of fans.

I hope I did too. :lol ... :-[  Oops.  The only thing worse than my typing is my spelling.

Thanks for all the responses, especially Lee.

I was wondering what the state of awareness regarding the song was among the BB faithful and that has been answered.

Is the 1994 issue of ESQ with SOMS story still available?

Not certain which issue it is, but all 1994 issues are available for reprint at their site: http://www.esquarterly.com/buy-ESQ.html

OK I was freaking out...  I just knew that my trip to L.A. occurred in 1994, and that jives with the date of Brian Wilson Tribute in Santa Monica (the legendary one where Brian met the Wondermints).  But I also knew that our "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" cover issue was the June 1997 issue.  I was panicking that maybe I had met Rick on a later trip to L.A., and I had the chronology all wrong...

But I pulled out my box of old ESQ's, and both are right:
1) My original half-page description of "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" was in the December 1994 issue of ESQ.
2) My interview with Rick Henn where he describes the recording process for "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" was in the June 1997 issue, when Rick was promoting the Sunrays Box Set.  There are nine pages dedicated to that one song.  My description of the song from 1994 is repeated in the 1997 issue.

Chris is right; you should be able to buy both issues from our website.  If you have any problems email esqeditor@aol.com for more instructions.

Lee

double post