The Smiley Smile Message Board

I must confess that I only bought the FAQ book last month but I was rather surprised that it seems to characterize Brian's post-1999 touring persona as not that much more free and voluntary as his Landry-era persona. I can recall that I got slammed back in 2001 (ish) for being opposed to Brian being out on tour if he's not 100% happy (infact probably less than 20% happy) with being out there. Moreover, my opinion changed somewhat after watching the Pet Sounds and Smile concerts: I couldn't believe that Brian could be strong-armed into doing such complex material (and in the case of Smile, material associated with so many demons); you can't really puppet-master that kind of music, which requires a lot more from the vocalist than just mouthing the greatest hits.  

So if Jon is reading this: have I misread, or am I straw manning, your argument, or have you changed your position in response to any negative reactions since the book came out?

Second question: I felt the book was a little schematic in that it seemed to think that Dennis and Brian were doomed from quite early on due to Murry's abuse of them and the fact that (especially Dennis) never got over that abuse. Again am I pereceiving your position accurately?

When there was a lot of hysterical screaming going on back and forth a few months ago about Brian's touring situation, I remembered that section of the book. It gave me chills.

Hi Jon, I can only give my perspective, and i don't claim to be Brian's friend or an intimate. I can say I've spoken to him maybe a dozen times between 1979 and 2014. Most of those times were at his shows, back stage or in some realm of the concert lead up, a few times were in other settings. My article is a view of how I felt at the time (2010), it might be a little different now, but most of the basics are the same. Sometimes it seems like Brian would rather be anywhere than having to go out and perform, other times he's cool with it. The last time I talked to him before he played a show was just a couple months ago, and he was completely happy. But, as I said, other times he looked like he was facing the electric chair or something. Dreading it. Howie Edelson has a direct quote, on tape from Brian, recent, where he says the worst thing about touring is going on stage. So, my piece on Brian stands, for the time i wrote it, everything evolves, everything has nuance, everything can be contradicted. I try to write honestly, and in the case of that piece i was very honest about my opinion. It doesn't win me any friends on the inside, but it's a perspective I can share about an artist that has my complete respect and love.

My opinion that Brian and Dennis were messed up by their relationship with their dad, and how that gnawing and destructive issue haunted them both into adulthood is accurate. But again, there are more sides. Their deep love for music is also one of the things Murry ingrained in them, so it wasn't all bad. Thanks for your interest in the book.

Jon,

Thank you for your input.  My question is this, and I admit not having read your book, based on the comment of the OP it seems you state in the book that Brian is as controlled now as he was in the Landy era.  This is very a strong claim.  The statements you posted below do not seem to support that he is controlled, but rather that he has, at times, a strong distaste for going on stage.  It seems you are drawing the conclusion that if a man detests something as much as you discern Brian detests going on stage, and yet that person does it anyway, then he is under Landy-like control.  I don't think that conclusion is warranted on the basis of your statements below.  Are there not several other possible reasons for such behavior?  An example:

I detest public speaking.  Most recently I had a training session where I had to give a five minute presentation on a topic that I know quite well, probably as well as Brian knows his own songs.  I was only going to be speaking in front of an audience of my colleagues, around 20-25 other people.  There was nothing on the line, it was just for practice.  As I sat through the training portion leading up to the presentations I began to plot ways to get out of it.  I though of feining illness, but as a couple of others knew I was scared, I knew I could not get away with it.  I came up with several other absurd ideas, the most compelling was to get up, walk out, and quit my job.  I have a family of five people.  To do this would be financial suicide.  Yet, sitting there, I seriously considered this option.  I tried to hide my fear, and I probably did a decent job of it, but if you could have been in my mind you would have seen someone who looked like he was facing the elecric chair.  Yet, I chose to get up and give the presentation rather than quitting.  Why?  Was I being controlled by some external person or people?  Not at all.  As I weighed the options I concluded that the pain of giving the presentation was less than the pain of financially ruining my family.  

Now add in Brian's history of psychological issues.  He is aware of this struggle.  Don't you think he has reason to try to overcome these problems, these fears?  I have to believe any good psychiatrist would tell you that facing your fears is a better way to address them than to run from them.  Most likely Brian has been counseled to do so.  I can imagine other reasons, just as rational, for why he might want to choose to do that which he fears.  Why is it that with Brian the assumption is that he is being controlled?  Is it because he has been controlled in the past?  To my knowledge this is a somewhat isolated period in his life while under the influence of Landy.  Others have often commented that Brian does what Brian wants to do, that he is not being controlled. I believe everyone has seen and sensed from a bit further distance the same things that you have witnessed a bit closer up, and many here, such as Sheriff John Stone, have drawn similar conclusions.  I cannot take the average poster here seriously on this issue because they are no closer to the situation than I am.  They've drawn a conclusion based on very shaky evidence.  I've remained open minded because, unlike the evidence that Brian struggles psychologically, which exists in abundance (he has admitted it publicly), I don't think enough evidence has been presented to warrant the conclusion that he is controlled.  The argument seems to go something like this:

He was controlled in the past, part of that control resulted in him doing things he did not want to do, currently he is doing things he does not want to do, therefore he is currently controlled.  I don't recall my logic courses perfectly, but I believe this is the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

If P then Q
Q
Therefore P

But you are a respected figure within the Beach Boys world and have had access far greater than most of us.  So your perspective is intriguing.  I am wondering what evidence exists, beside an extreme case of stage fright, and seeing Brian do things he admits he doesn't want to do, that would lead one to believe Brian is presently being controlled in a Landy-esque sense.  You were persuaded enough to make the comments in a book (assuming the original poster's claims are accurate, and I assume so as you did not dispute them), to live with the consequences, and to affirm them after the fact.  I would be grateful for any further evidence, anecdotes, or insights that you might have.

EoL

It's interesting - you usually hear artists say the exact opposite. The travelling sucks, being away from family sucks, everything sucks, but being on stage is the part that they really enjoy and that, in some cases, "makes it all worthwhile." It's unfortunate that the music industry works the way it does now. Being a great artist isn't good enough, you HAVE to tour whether you can handle it or not. Or have a really well-paying job on the side, which is not really conducive to doing the whole "artist" thing. I doubt Brian really needs to tour, but still.

I'm sure Brian does have the occasional night where he does enjoy performing, but I sometimes wonder if the folks around him think he's seemingly better off when he's touring even if he doesn't realize it. Like, he's mentally better being productive and having a consistent schedule instead of staying at home. I can't say for sure if that's correct, I'm just saying that may be a reason that he continues to tour; the folks who run his career think it's good for him.

Personally, at his age (which is the biggest factor in all of this, I feel. The man is in his 70s.), if he told me he felt better hanging out at home, writing and recording when it felt good to do so and maybe doing a few shows a year, I'd say that's good enough for me. But I don't know and can't say for sure, I'm not in his life, so I ultimately realize I may not be "right" about all of this.

I hate going to work a lot of the time too.

And you (probably) don't suffer from schizophrenia etc. like Brian does, so... erm.

You know zero about me and I wasn't talking to you. 

And I stick by what I said.

Do you think maybe he meant that he hates when he has to go on stage but maybe once he's there and he starts playing, he feels comfortable?  Because I think that's pretty normal for a lot of performers.

Thus why I said "probably".


You posted something on a public message board and someone responded. Come on, d00d. :(

If you!ve attended his concerts, you'd know that being on stage and feeling comfortable a lot of times do not go hand in hand.

I've seen him twice.  Once solo (with Jeff Beck and Al and Dave) and once with the Beach Boys.  Both times he looked very happy, his singing was on point, and he was even talking to the audience.  Maybe I just got lucky on both those nights.  And then I also have many concert DVDs of his where he looks very comfortable.  Of course, most of those performances are more than ten years old but still, I get the feeling that fans worry about him more than they need to.

I think anyone who reads the piece will see that I consider both sides of the argument, that maybe Brian isn't comfortable with the touring and live setting, but despite that it likely has beneficial aspects, feeling the love of the audience, getting to be a musician and play that amazing music, the camaraderie with other musicians etc... Maybe it's better than what he would be doing without it. That point is in there too. People tend to focus on the part that maybe not to many other books have articulated, my impression is that he's a guy who'd rather not be under the spotlight but somehow is. Some part of that makes me sad for him. But it's not a black and white thing, there's shades of gray all over it.

Jon,

Thank you once again for your response.  To clarify, are you saying that beyond anecdotal evidence that you have seen up close and others have witnessed from afar - namely Brian seems exteremely uncomfortable with going on stage, which he has publicly admitted, and yet he does so anyway - that there really isn't any additional evidence he is controlled?  In other words, you haven't witnessed someone controlling him, or acting in a controlling manner toward him, and then* him folding and doing as he was told to do?

This is all very interesting to me, I appreciate your input.

EoL

*Corrected my initial typo of "them" to "then".

The vibe I've gotten from Brian in interviews is that he views touring as essential to his career, and at the end of the day, he wants a successful music career. I basically agree with him on that, but it's true that he probably didn't need to tour as exhaustedly as he did. I think there was an aspect of competition with Mike and his relentless schedule. The thought being, if I'm not out there performing, Mike will be out there shaping my musical legacy for me.

Can of worms, man. Can of worms.

The only way to clarify is to read the piece, consider for yourself if the evidence i present is anecdotal or something more, and see if it informs your own opinion or not. No way i can re-explain something that is a full statement within itself. And again, it's a snapshot of how I felt in 2010. There has been an incremental evolution since then, but IMO not enough to discount the basic points of the piece. Thanks for your interest!

While I'm somewhat disappointed in Mr. Stebbins's responses on this topic, not really answering harrisonjon's question and all, I think this:


is really childish. ::) If you have something to say, say it (and suitably argue your point) - but if (http://i58.tinypic.com/2gy4nwo_th.gif) is your only response then dig this: some of us might find the taste of worms not entirely displeasing. Please don't overindulge us. ;)

Seriously, you really can't figure out why Jon cannot respond in the fashion that you want? AGD is absolutely correct, the subject is a can of worms. You should know that, as well.

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/30wpn6f.jpg)

It's not all about you (in the collective): there's a few here could open that can, and several others... and they'd wake up the following day to find their sources had totally evaporated. You've not grasped this basic premise yet, you've really not been paying attention: hell, there's even a recently started thread on this very topic. Politely* suggest you read it.

[* there's always a first time]

I have grasped. I still smell hypocrisy and gutlessness. And convenient resorts from continuing a discussion in a precarious direction.

I'm not being disrespectful or acting the fool on purpose. I just felt like stating how all of this comes across to me. And to a couple of others as well, I think.

It can be frustrating to re-explain a chapter in a book that is widely distributed, probably 15,000 copies in print, to someone who hasn't read the book as is the case with the poster Empire of Love. And even for those who have read it, I am of the opinion that the chapter stands for itself, it is not a mystery what my opinion is, the chapter is clear. But in no way do i think my point of view is the definitive one, it's just mine, and it's a comparatively informed one. I'm happy to discuss my writings, but in this case, that chapter is what it is. One of the nice things about getting to write books is that I can make a developed statement on a particular subject, and then have the satisfaction that I made my point. And in this case the point is made. Doing that, in a book, is the opposite of gutless. It's honesty.

You are disrespectful and gutless and acting the fool. What else could you possibly be? Jon didn't come in here spouting off, you did. He gave his response, so please respect it. Go dig up what you're after and you get back to us.

Not doing this isn't being hypocritical, or gutless: it's what we here in the real world call "not being a complete fucking moron". As you've in fact indicated.

I've spent something like 35 years building my knowledge, reputation (such as it is - opinions vary) connections and sources: you really, really think I'm going to throw that all away in a moment of madness just because you want to know ? That's about thirty kinds of insane. You any kin to Phil Cohen ?  ;D

Jon, "gutlessness" was clearly not directed at the contents of your book. And honesty is always appreciated.



That was a very telling response. Thanks for that.

I used your own words of description. Yes, very telling.

lowbacca asks an honest question about Stebbins' book and is met with insults. Something is not right here about honest questions about people claiming stuff about BW.....

It's how you used them. ;) I won't drop to meet that niveau, sorry.



That's what I meant. What kind of a joint is this board sometimes? ::)

Jon gave him an answer that he wasn't happy with. I didn't insult him, he used the words himself. I just disagreed with him about how he saw himself and his actions.

Edit: He must have thought some of us would think that, or he wouldn't have posted the terms that he did.

To be fair to everyone here, lowbacca's beef is not with Jon so much as with my "can of worms" comment and my subsequently declining to elaborate. His evident inability to see why neither I, Jon or anyone else is willing to expand on those three words is more than somewhat worrying, considering the recent unequivocal proof that the people we're discussing (and in some cases, being exceedingly rude about) do in fact read this forum. Simply put, someone tells you something in strict confidence, you don't share it with your cat, much less post it on a forum that Joe Q. Public can read. That is asshattery of the highest order.

The idea that is trying to be implied is that the big secret is that BW is a zombie with handlers.

How can a chapter that is well developed, points made, evidence presented, alternative view considered, book published, distributed...how can that be termed a "secret" or implication. Read the chapter, if you disagree, as some do, so be it. If the chapter gives you some added perspective, cool.

Gosh Darn....

I love this board and I'm grateful beyond words for the involvement of people like Desper, Lawlor, Stebbins & AGD etc. who are closer to or simply know more about the band and the individuals than we 'common' fans do, but there's a realm of instances - intellectually as well as behaviour-related - that I'm not comfortable with. Normally I stay away from those threads to begin with, but I seem to have stumbled into this one. My bad. Which doesn't mean I don't stand by what I said. Nevertheless, I can't be the only one here being uncomfortable with the atmosphere at times?


Keep cool everyone,
Lowbacca out.

I don't think that at all. But I do think Brian has people in place help him with business decisions, whether that be regarding recording in the studio or when he is out on the road touring. I think Brian has proved that he is a far cry from a zombie. Though, I bet like the rest of us, he has his good days and his bad days.

You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at.  ;D

Are you happy with some of the more asinine posts on this forum that have nothing to do with the band and everything to do with irrational personal dislike ? I'm sincerely curious.

My recollection was that somewhere in the FAQ book Jon also says something like there's "overwhelming" evidence that Brian would rather not tour. One can hardly argue with that observation; the evidence begins to accumulate during the Kennedy administration.  So the question, in recent years, is why does he perform? There's a lot of potential reasons; whatever they are, they outweigh whatever inclination there is to not be on stage. I like to think (hope) that one factor is, basically, pride.
  
And this is where the OP’s second issue – Murry’s impact on Brian and Dennis – is actually, to my thinking, somehow related to Brian’s willingness to make appearances. The father wreaked unbelievable havoc in the lives of all three brothers, and, by extension, the group as a whole.  Unlike Dennis, Brian survived the onslaught, and that has to mean something to Brian, doesn’t it?  (And isn’t it true that Brian didn’t start touring under his own name until he became the “last Wilson?”) When a seventy-something Brian tours (and puts albums out), a strong statement is implicitly being made. Anyway, this is only one way of spinning it more positively, while not necessarily discounting any other theory or anyone else’s specific knowledge.

The provocative, opinionated writing in the FAQ about topics like this one was refreshing, and clearly offered as well-reasoned opinion rather than fact. I’m going to add this “decision to tour solo” issue to the list of things I’m hoping to see addressed in some form in the upcoming autobiography.

The simple answer for everyone whose interests about the Beach Boys' music, career and lives (specifically those who post THOUSANDS of times about people they don't know personally) is to actually know them.

Go meet them already. Ask THEM.

I am still amazed after all these years on the board that people will ask a question regarding a fact, a show, a session, or even how to improve their fanzine, and then ARGUE the answer they get.
That whole "You're not telling me EVERYTHING!" and "What do you REALLY mean?" is so lame. YOU go meet them. You go work with them. You go be part of a project with a Beach Boy for 18 months. You experience that organization for a year -- you tell ME. This isn't Teddy Roosevelt. These are living people.

Stebbins tells what HE thinks and sees.
And they all know him and they all respect him and they all talk to him.

To those for which a simple answer isn't good enough; if you're so passionate about something that keeps you talking about it year after year after year -- YOU find out the truth.

I have no bone to pick with you. Never have before and probably never will in the future. I just happen to disagree with you on this subject. I am sorry if throwing your own words back at you upset you. My apologies!

To both JakeH and Howie, terrific posts, thank you!

Superb post Howie, as ever.

Problem with your excellent advice is, some folk can't - or won't - accept the truth. They know what they know, and they know they're right. Would that they knew what they didn't know.

With a very few examples - we all know who - everyone posting here has no idea about what these people are really like. I mean, really like. How they spend their days, their friends, their likes and dislikes. We're the next door neighbors, we look over the fence, we see the external coming and goings, we might pass on the block, maybe get invited to a BBQ. We occasionally get a peek through the windows, or overhear an arguement, but for 98% of the time, we just don't know. Whatever we think we know... we don't. Always remember that.

The simple truth of it is, though, that Brian has not toured particularly heavily for some 10 years, with the exception of the C50 dates.

Indeed, there are years (2006, 2010, 2014) when he has played only 10 shows or so. So it seems difficult to say he's being driven in some horrible way to tour, at least not these days.

To my mind, the facts of the situation -- the actual number of dates played, for instance -- are always a useful addition to discussions of this type.

And Howie's point is, as ever, excellent. It's not difficult to get to know folks in the BW/BB world who have seen what's going on. Several post here. It's not tough to get your own batch of sources together, if you really want to. And then you can draw your own conclusions.

I'm much more bullish on BW touring, but it's also been clear for a long time that he doesn't have unalloyed positive feelings about it. For one thing, he has to battle the voices while thousands are watching. That can't be fun, even if the show turns out well.

(From Bellagio, and the counting is my own. I'm discounting guest appearances where he might perform a song or two.

2006 -- 12 shows
2007 -- 41 shows
2008 -- 39 shows
2009 -- 38 shows
2010 -- 9 shows
2011 -- 38 shows
2012 -- C50 shows
2013 -- 29 shows
2014 -- 11 shows)

The last time I saw him I was sitting to be the left of the stage. After the final song, Brian exited to the right. Fans of course started cheering for an encore. While they were doing this Brian was sitting in a folding chair, in the wings. I could see this clearly from where I was sitting. It was so sad, he was sitting threre with his elbows on his legs, arms up, and his head cradled in his hands. He looked like he wanted to cry. All of the band members kept their distance from him. Finally they all came out for the encore. Brian wore his fake smile. I will NEVER forget him sitting there, looking so very bummed out.

I've seen that as well, and it's hard not to feel for the guy at those moments. Good days and bad days.

But on the flip side of all the trauma, Murry also drilled "fight for success" and "show em who's got the guts" into him as well and he faces the demons and works hard even when he doesn't want to... because he's a pro. He knows more than anybody the reputation he has and has to live up to... can you imagine that kind of pressure? Competing against yourself when yourself was the guy who put out Pet Sounds in his 20s? With a huge audience out there that he STILL thinks he might disappoint? "Now I gotta go out and be a genius... oh f***! f***! f***!"  

 So he doesn't do it while pointing at the audience. So he doesn't race to the center of the stage and jump up for no apparent reason. Big deal. How many shows did he miss on C50? How many shows has he missed since he started touring? All those decades of extended family conflict and arguments have crowned him as the king of passive-aggressive behavior, he doesn't need to be pissy in interviews or go all alpha male to get his way. There isn't some musclebound jock with a cattle-prod forcing him to go out there. If he didn't know how important these shows were, if he didn't want to do 'em -- he wouldn't. He'd go all "Waves of Love," fold his arms, and pretend to be asleep. But he keeps going and does some pretty amazing shows now and again: look at that recent best BBs-related concert memories thread, how many of those were BW shows?

 We're lucky to still have him putting out good music and the chance to see more shows. How f***ed to not applaud all the courage and moving forward even against odds, age, and baggage. Not to mention a bad ear and a hard time with stage monitors. And he's STILL giving you guys some of your best Beach Boys-related concert memories.  He's got supportive family and friends that clearly love the guy to bits, are those the handlers? How is it a remotely Landy-like situation? Someone please name the current Surf Nazis. But what do I know? I've just been to a few BBQs, really.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7523/16102753087_7e66cdd803_o.jpg)\

I don't think there is a simple answer. It is way too complicated. And, the reason it is complicated is because, when you DO ASK THEM, you don't always get the truth. You will be told what they want you to know, and, more importantly, what they DON'T want you to know.

I don't believe it is simply a matter of not accepting the truth or being cynical. If somebody made the effort, they could come up with several - numerous! - statements made through the years by band members which have been proven to be totally false. And, it doesn't stop there; it filters down through the band members' family, friends, associates, and hangers-on. I get that; there's too much to lose - getting mentioned in album liner notes, receiving an annual Christmas card, and backstage access at concerts! And, I'm not even saying that we have the right to know in the first place. However, I have observed through the years that everything that comes out of the mouths of the Beach Boys has to be questioned. Certainly some of the honored guests who are part of the media have experienced this. Just look at some of the books and interviews from decades ago and compare what was said with what has eventually come out.

So many times I go back to what Kris Kristofferson once said, and I'm paraphrasing..."If you want to know the truth, just ask the studio janitor; he doesn't have "a side".

Again, in my opinion, I think in Brian's dream world he'd record an album every 5 years and the BBs would still be "his" band.  I sense he wanted a hit AC record with Imagination. I believe TLOS was a labor of love. Smile and TWGMTR were therapeutic. No Pier Pressure was a thrill. The rest (including touring), I believe, he viewed as work necessary to put himself in position to do those projects. If he doesn't tour Pet Sounds and Smile, I don't think he would've have gotten the opportunity for TLOS, for example.

I look it his situation the way I look at my car. I hate my car. I probably wouldn't ever work on it without my wife nagging me. But, in the end, I like the opportunities the car provides and am grateful for the nagging.

Sheriff -- I disagree.

To the band's (and I suppose my credit) the group members have never been overtly untruthful to me. Perhaps because they're aware that I know what I know coming in, certain things will be said on and then off the record. Or a situation (e.g. the credits for TWGMTR / the 50th) will be explained with the specific names being left out for publication. They've never tried to feed me bullsh it, perhaps because they know that one of their partners has already told me the truth.

Despite what everybody thinks -- there's not MANY different truths with the BB's. There's the DEAL and how one of two camps decides to deal with it.
It is far from brain surgery.

Sheriff, I'm confused, have you had an instance when you've had a frank conversation or interview with a member of the Beach Boys where they've actively misled you on information?

No need for confusion, Howie. I think my opinion on a rock & roll message board is actually a simple and direct one, one felt by a great majority of Beach Boys' fans, especially fans on this board.

For almost fifty years, we have been subjected (for lack of a better word) to numerous books and many, many more interviews. Certainly not all, but with many of these books and interviews, the interviewer did exactly what you are proposing - get to know the band member or develop some sense of trust, and simply ask them questions. We have not only received quotes from the band members themselves, but also from family members (including brothers, cousins, wives, and ex-wives), musicians, record company executives, and friends. However, through the decades, from one book to another, from one interview to another, we have seen/read many of these quotes (facts?) to be proven false. And I'm not insinuating that we were originally, intentionally misled (well, not all the time :P), but I am saying that many of the quotes were full of sh--. And, again, these quotes were given to people, people like yourself, who felt that they had established trust.

Now, I'm not naive. I realize that this goes on in all phases of life, not just rock & roll, and not just with The Beach Boys. But I do think it is naive - especially with The Beach Boys - to simply say "ask and you shall receive", especially when you're asking for the truth. Howie, I know you follow this board, so I know you are aware that this board takes pride in dispelling myths. It's almost like a mission for some, and I mean that in a good way. If there's a book or an interview out there, we'll find it and we''ll read it. And, if something smells fishy, we'll dig and dig and dig until we get to the bottom of it. It happens on almost a weekly basis. We don't assume it's the truth, just because the quote was given to somebody we know and respect, even if it's somebody like you. You expressed that you disagree with that premise, but I think that if most diehards are honest, they would agree with it.

My ultimate point Sheriff, is this; If you want to know the truth about something, if it is a major part of your life that you spend years pouring over to the point of cross-referencing quotes about subjects throughout decades, a year, a tour -- I say, put the mouse down. Leave the computer and meet the people you’re so interested in and ask them what you want to know. That’s exactly what I did for a career and I got exactly the answers I wanted, when I wanted, from precisely the people I wanted them from. I mean, Sheriff, you’ve posted over 4000 times on a message board about The Beach Boys. It’s a safe bet that The Beach Boys is the major deal in your life. If at this point you’ve devoted that much time to a subject and remain so exasperated by not getting the real story (which is actually out there) -- it’s not the band, or interviewer or book publisher’s fault.

Nobody owes anyone the truth, but if one wants it, one can get it.
Go get the truth, dude.

I don't understand why this "Does Brian *really* want to tour?" question seems to be so difficult for some folks to grasp.

C'mon, aren't there things that you sometimes don't want to do, but sometimes also find rewarding? Stebbins' take on the subject in his book (which, for crying out loud people, please READ before commenting on; trust me, if you're into the BB's, it's a good book!) always struck me as pretty spot on. He cites some specific evidence, both reported and first hand, and then comes to the not-at-all-shocking conclusion that there are elements to playing live where Brian sometimes would rather be home eating a steak than being on stage, but also seems to sometimes get something good out of it.

As Wirestone also pointed out, it's arguably a somewhat moot issue, as Brian *hasn't* extensively toured apart from C50 in quite some time (and on C50 Brian had to do FAR less heavy lifting during shows). If Brian had been doing the 100-shows-per-year circuit every year since 1999 and continued to look more and more miserable every year, then we'd be having a different discussion.

I've seen Brian ten or however many times it is, and sometimes he looks and sounds like he's having fun (2000 in Saratoga, CA on the PS tour; the most lively I've EVER seen or heard him), and sometimes he literally lays down on the stage mid-performance in some weird passive-aggressive moment (2007 in Saratoga, CA in the SAME venue).

Having witnessed one of the more infamous live moments in Brian's solo touring career at that show in 2007, even then I came away with my opinion not terribly changed about whether he should be touring or wants to. I said back then in 2007 right after the show that the question of whether Brian should be touring was not any more or less valid in 2007 (or now 2015) than it was in 1999.

He's hitting 73 years old this year. Evidence suggests that normal wear of old age if nothing else maybe slowing the touring schedule (which I still think is at least a big part of why Foskett jumped ship; there are few gigs with Brian these days). I think he can still do a strong run of shows, especially with a bigger supporting act. If he tours more extensively in 2015 than he has in the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if that happens in part because he adds Al and maybe even Blondie to the tour, and with the backing guys taking a few leads.

HeyJude: I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not Brian likes touring.  The question is whether or not he is being controlled into doing so to a Landy-like degree. Some here did the old Murray Wilson two step side step and everyone seems to have followed down the road and now we are talking about whether or not be likes touring.  I'm still looking for evidence that Brian is controlled.  After a couple of years of considering that possibility I've become increasingly skeptical because I've seen very little evidence.  I've heard statements from those who I believe don't have any real data, such as Sherrif John Stone.  I've read statements from those who seem at first blush to have enough info to opine, such as Jon Stebbins, and I've read between the lines of those such as AGD.  But evidence?  Severely lacking.  I'm going to track down the Stebbins book with an open mind.  If this thread is any indication I won't be surprised if I go away without hard evidence.  But maybe I'll be surprised.  Hopefully.

EoL

I am going to jump in on this thread , but will preface it with the following: first; I have not read Jon Stebbins' FAQ book so I cannot comment on anything written there; second ; I have been an aviation industry executive for almost thirty years ; which has given me significant personal and professional travel perks, which I have utilized to meet up with Brian in Australia four times , Japan three times, the U.K. every time , most of the EU tours,  most of the U.S. touring and all of the New York dates. During these times ,I have eaten several meals a day with Brian ; in restaurants, hotels and a few bars along the way; and to this date , in all of these places, I have yet to see or meet one of these handlers that are so often discussed on this board.  So I ask again as I have asked before on this board: who are they ?  What are their names ? Who are these shadow enforcers ? I will make it easy. Jean Sievers and Melinda Wilson are the BriMel management team;nobody else. On the road, Jerry Weiss, a damn good guy, was Brian's PA for several years , followed by Sharkey , and then Jeff Foskett became Brian's "right hand man". None of them were/are the handlers , so someone please forward me their names as I would like to meet them.

This whole "Brian is controlled" thing has gotten archaic to say the least ; let's dispense with the bull-sh*t ; some of the people pushing this agenda have a target , and that target is Melinda Wilson; that she is ultimately the one who is "controlling" Brian. If that is the case that some of you want to make,  then have the balls to come out and say it publicly , not hide behind this nebulous "handler " nonsense or winks and nods. Let's have that debate. But come prepared with first hand facts and knowledge, not innuendo; not something you read , or a friend of someone in the band told you, or its something you heard on Bill O'Reilly .  I am prepared to have that debate; be prepared to not like my answers.

Finally; I am mentioned in liner notes, I do get Christmas cards, and I do get backstage access at concerts ; both BW and C50.  But I get these things because of friendship , not flackery.

G'Day

Good enough for me Ray! ;D  I believe Brian has good people around him, fortunately.  Does Brian ever look at this board or do you pass comments on to him?  For example, I know during C50 you were able to clear up concerns about Brian's back and he also mentioned on his Facebook about people being concerned about him.  I guess I'm wondering if Brian is aware of what we are now discussing and what his response would be.  I can't imagine he would enjoy seeng this kind of stuff poured over constantly (i.e., handlers).  

I would like to relate a story of when I met Brian.  It was at the Balmoral Hotel in Edinburgh, Scotland 2002.  He got off the tour bus first along with another gentleman (maybe it was you?).  I asked him if he could sign my Pet Sounds lp, which he did!  I then chanced it and asked for a photograph, Brian put his arm round me whilst the other man took the picture.  He was very relaxed and I was over the moon! ;D Anyway, I share this because there were no 'handlers' that I could see. Brian went into the hotel and the band were next of the bus.

Thanks again for your openness and willingness to participate on the board, and maybe have a word in Brian's ear about racking up some more air miles back to Scotland when the new album comes out!

Incredible post, Ray and a welcomed blast of fresh air on this subject. Thank you for sharing this and with this, this subject should be put to beddy-bye.

I remember that vividly; that was me, I took your picture....does that make me a handler ? Or a closet photographer ?  I would love to see that picture. The bar at the Balmoral ( one of the greatest bars in the world) was the first time I was able to get Brian to relax and have a beer with a few guys in the band (great beer by the way). Great story from that concert.  After the concert , there were at least 50 people who somehow got backstage, where there was beer , wine and soda. Right in the middle, beer in hand , was Brian , talking away to everyone.  I walked over to see what was happening and he said :" Ray; I love these f....g people ; they are so great !"  Then he went back to talking to anyone who wanted to listen, and I went over to grab myself a beer.  An excellent night.PS... I ripped off a white garmet bag from the Balmoral  ; still carry a suit in it when traveling to this day.

Ray that's great that you remembered.  I can't believe it, such a small world as they say!  I'll get a copy of that picture to you.  I'm just glad the picture worked out.  That was in the old days before digital camera phones and I had a nervous wait as I finished the spool in the camera and then took it to get it developed.  It's so much easier now!

Also, a cool story about Brian backstage having a beer with the fans and then with the band back at the Balmoral.  It is indeed quite a place!  Glad you've still got the souvenir suit carrier! 

It was a great night all round.  Do you remember during the show a guy jumped up on stage and started dancing in front of Brian who was seated front centre at his keyboard?  I have never seen that at any of the Brian concerts I've been to.  Anyway, Brian just looked at the guy and kept singing. Didn't miss a beat!  Brian also came down to the front and high fived the audience on a couple of occasions.  That was definitely one of the best shows I've been to.  It was also where some SMiLE songs were played and I remember thinking that maybe, just maybe we'll see more of that.  Two years later of course was the full SMiLE Tour! ;D  Thanks again for the picture!

Holy crap ; I forgot about that guy dancing on the stage in front of Brian....he just kept going on singing ; funny moment.  I also remember Brian high-fiving on a few occasions....and I dont recall him doing that again.  All in all , that was one of the best nights , so thank you!  Did I at least take a decent picture for you ?

The picture turned out great!  I've sent you a PM so you can get a look.  Thanks again  ;D

Ray, thanks for your input...and I think if you did read the chapter you will see that it is well rounded and presents a view of Brian from a number of potential perspectives. My opinion is formed from my perspective, but the piece leaves room for yours, and for others. The chapter goes back to 1963 to give a foundation for Brian's reluctance to tour, and perform on nights when he wasn't wanting to. The word "handlers" is used twice in the entire chapter, and that seems to have evolved into a third rail term because of the Landy years, which are really not mentioned in the article. I used it at the time to avoid naming names because that is not the intent of the piece. To me the ultimate "handler" would have been Jeff, who is a friend, and who for years did an amazing job of giving Brian just the right amount of support, direction and assistance, but did it in a way that showed respect and good nature. That's part of yesterday now. I'm learning to hate the word handlers, but since I used it let's go there...The "handler" referred to early in the piece was Jean, the incident recounted is on tape, and my friend Howie Edelson, who you know, did the interview in person, in studio. No bullshit, just reality, it happened as I described it. The "handlers" mentioned later in the article were Melinda and David Leaf, this was an incident that occurred back in 1999. My friend Ed Roach will verify we viewed this up close, first hand. These things colored my perception, along with the other things mentioned in the chapter, and a few that are not. But in no way does the chapter suggest that my perception is the full perspective. It just theorizes on how a number of things i have seen, and experienced, have added up to color my perspective and make my opinion what it is. (Just FYI I've met Melinda a few times and she was always really nice to me, and nice to my family.) I have no animosity toward Jean or David, don't know them, but we have many many common friends. Ultimately my chapter is just me, a fan and writer, who has seen some troubling things, wondering, wishing, hoping that Brian is happy with where he is, and with what he's doing...because he deserves to be. And it's made me sad, due to bits and pieces of perspective gained through being close, and from being a fan who is not so close, to think that anything but that could be the case. Good to know you offer a more positive view, and as I said, i've seen some of that positive alternative myself. Long live Brian, and as the bottom line of the chapter in question wishes...I really hope he's getting the peace he deserves.

Thanks for the story mikeddonn.  My understanding regarding the Landy era is that stories such as mikesdonn's would have been impossible.  Perhaps Ray, or someone who would know, could confirm or deny.  But I've heard many such stories that, to my understanding, would have been impossible in the Landy-era.  The existence of so many stories, and that some have been corroborated, argues heavily against Landy-like control of Brian in the, shall we call it, the Melinda-era.  I'm not arguing that Brian likes going on stage or that Melinda doesn't encourage him to do so, but Landy-like control does not fit the evidence.

Jon I'm curious to know if you believe that the level of control approaches Landy-era levels as the OP claims.  I will read the chapter if you don't want to answer here (I'll read it either way).

Thanks to those with some knowledge for your insights.

EoL

Edit: I posted this prior to seeing your last post Jon.

Ray, I hate to tell you this, but the people at the Balmoral are lurkers here and I don't know if you're going to be able to keep that garment bag...  :police:

Seriously--it is always a breath of fresh air when you post here. For those of us who are for one reason or another unable to follow Howie's advice, we have in you a "short cut" to the truth about Brian. It's clear that you guys have a friendship based on a mutual appreciation of each other's sense of integrity. And I daresay that we are all grateful beneficiaries of that, sir!

:thumbsup

And this thread turned out great! Cool story mike, and nice to see you and Ray bump into each other again  :grouphug

Great clarification (as per) from Jon S.

Ray, I really enjoy your posts. Thanks for sharing with us. Forgive me if this has been asked before, but I'm quite interested in how an international man of intrigue living on the East Coast came to befriend Brian. Would you mind sharing how you came to be friends with him? If you'd rather not, I fully understand....Thanks

Yes...Very interesting to get the view from a friend.  Thanks Ray.

While I'm here I just want to add how much I have enjoyed reading Jon's books.  And I want to say that the man does his homework and his research and that when it's necessary he's not adverse to bringing his material up to date and up to snuff.  When you're talking about a living, breathing entity like the Beach Boys...change happens.

Glad we have informed guys like Jon, Andrew and the 'lot' to do the heavy lifting in that regard.  Thanks lads. :hat

[this site is pretty cool isn't it?]

Appreciate all that's going down in this thread. I feel like a voyeur, but really appreciate the honesty and the clarity being offered.

It has already come along way since the demands that seemed to require, evidence, names and the breaking of confidences, which seemed to me to be akin to askin "When were you last unfaithful to your wife/partner/husband/lamb, that they're unaware of?"

Thanks, sincere thanks, to all concerned.

Ray, it was the Sun Theater in OC, the night after the Wiltern, and yes at the Wiltern he was excellent, both halves. At the Sun he looked like he'd rather be somewhere else during half one. I guess we witnessed a pep talk, but the language and tone surprised us. Maybe we're too sensitive!! BTW, he was great the second half, so something got his attention. Anyway, my underlying point is that sometimes, due to all the various things I've seen first hand, and sincere commentary from the band, friends and some family...I just hate the thought of Brian being pushed at this age. I appreciate your view, and would love to have a beer and go off the record with you some day.

To reiterate a point -- we're talking about an incident that took place 16 years ago. BW was 56 then. He's 72 now. Different ages, different men and different touring schedules.

I was at the Wiltern that night and can attest that it was a great show.  We were way up in the back... seats that are very high up, looking almost straight down on the band.  The one thing I remember vividly was Brian's hands on the piano, knitting the keys like a cat.

My wife and I saw Brian and his band at the Wiltern, sat in the front row, and it was glorious from start to finish.  (I had scored tickets at the Wherehouse Record store.  No one was in line!)  Brian seemed a little nervous, but you know what, he did the songs proud and my wife and I felt ** it ** on a spiritual level.  Paul Williams the writer was there. And at some point I bumped into Carnie Wilson, all I could think of to say was, “he’s doing wonderfully tonight”.

Funny moments: in the “pre-film” before the concert everyone booed the photo of Mike Love, which I didn’t understand at the time (being a newbie).  During the concert, Brian turned around to face and direct the band in the instrumental Pet Sounds and I thought, yeah those guys look a little nervous to be directed by the likes of Brian Wilson on stage!

Wonderful concert.

I saw Brian on the second leg of that first solo tour in 1999, he did a run of shows in the late spring and early summer after playing 4 in the midwest in March. Symphony Hall in Boston, June 21 1999. Based on the descriptions of the later Wiltern show, it seemed to follow the same program with showing the film before the show, then clips of the Little Girl I Once Knew studio sessions, etc. I laughed reading the post above because some of the people shown in that pre-show film got loud applause (Hal Blaine was one of the loudest that night), and others in the film...did not...as mentioned above. ;D

I had lived for several years on the same block as the hall, so I knew where they'd load and unload, where the artists and crew would enter, etc. I had brought along a copy of Pet Sounds hoping to get it signed, my buddy and I got there hours early to wait at the side door in the alley just off Mass Ave since that was the artist entrance. The alley was already packed with the crew's semi trailers, and there were only a few other fans milling around, so we made small talk, etc. I thought definitely that album would be getting a signature.

As the afternoon went on, eventually some people started walking across the alley and into the door, I only knew by sight The Wondermints at that time, and recognized Darian, Nicky Wonder, etc as they walked by.

Then finally Brian was spotted making his way across the alley. Lot of "buzz" from what was now a few dozen fans waiting outside for him. Most fans were in the front entrance of the hall waiting to get in, all the folks with the albums and Sharpie pens were in the alley.

There was Brian - Smiling, waving at us fans, etc...he really seemed excited and happy as he was walking in. He didn't look at all stressed out, or unhappy to be there, or even like it was going through the motions, in fact it was quite the opposite when he was waving and smiling. I took some photos, this is one which I've only shared with two people so far...

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bw991a_zps55c32003.jpg)


Note the semi trailers, etc. I have another where he's raising his hand to wave and you see a fan holding out a Sharpie, like he expected Brian to grab the pen and sign with his waving hand.  :lol Unfortunately he didn't stop to sign anything, he just said some hi's and hello's, and made his way in. Melinda did stop and sign for people, she chatted a bit, it was very cool.

But getting to the issue of the "pep talk"...

I got tickets on the first balcony, looking right over the stage (on the left side facing the stage). You could see everything on the stage, I wanted to check out the instruments and equipment the band would be using to recreate those amazing sounds, so the seats for me were better than those on the floor. We could also see off stage, as Brian exited to the right.

At one break in the show, we saw Brian standing just off stage with the emcee of the show (wearing a Hawaiian shirt), and it looked like he was getting such a pep talk, or maybe just encouragement. At one point the emcee (I'm sorry I just cannot remember his name...) put his hands on Brian's shoulders and it looked he was giving him encouragement or reassurance for that point in the show. That really stood out, but it didn't seem in any way something other than a friend giving him some encouragement or even saying what a good show it had been so far.

The show was terrific. One highlight for me as someone also mentioned was the Pet Sounds instrumentals. This floored me and I'm sure most others in the audience, they were spot-on, grooving and authentic yet full of live energy. What a terrific f***ing band, I thought, to pull those off.

What I didn't catch at the time but was later reminded of by my buddy was how Brian sat on a stool center-stage, was facing the band as they played his arrangements, and listened. And beyond that, at some points his hands seemed to by instinct rise up and start conducting the music. I saw it but I didn't really *see* it until my friend said "It seemed like he felt he was in the studio again in 1966 producing and conducting the band", and that will always stick out as one of those moments out of every show I've seen. It was something that probably didn't mean much, yet it did for someone like me to see the man who did this back in 1966 on stage again at the center of a band playing his music.

After the show, we went back to that side door, but it was crowded and the wait got too long. Never got the autograph but what a night.

And reading some of the memories from other shows in 1999 reminded me of these things, as well as wanting to mention my own view of a positive "pep talk" that happened during a break at this show.

You know...I've GUESSED several times at several on'line places over these past dozen years that ONE of the reasons why Brian wanted to stop touring WAY back when was because the band/the group just could NOT deliver the sounds he heard in his head and they couldn't recreate them live on stage.  Brian's vision for his music...the vibe, the sound, the instrumentation, the over-all presentation was not something that a 5 piece band or even the much augmented version could do...even in the 'glory years'.  The Beach Boys had their album sound...AND...they had their live sound.

Since Brian's return to live performances...he's been able to match the two so that they sound pretty much the same.  Credit is, of course, due to those fabulous multi instrumentalists and musicians who can manage it.  [and to the band leader and conductor as well]
As for him not always wanting to go to work...Who does?  But the difference is...over these past 16 years or so...he IS once again going to work.  The payoff must be better. :hat

Any comments on my thoughts about Brian being particular and a stickler for having his music performed the way HE wants it done?

While the reproduction of his studio creations on stage may have been a factor at varying points over the years, I always got the sense it was more the whole ball of wax Brian didn't like. Traveling, being in front of an audience, loud crowds and loud bands, etc.

As David Marks mentions briefly in the "Endless Harmony" documentary, touring in the early days was *nothing* like the modern day of much more cushy touring. The band obviously didn't have a crew of roadies even in the early days. But even once the band hit it big by 1964 and so on, even touring then was not anywhere near as streamlined as it was by the 80's and into the 90's and so on. There's the classic on-film example of the Beatles' Washing DC gig in 1964 where their intricate stage rig and roadie situation consisted of Neil and Mal and Ringo himself hunching over and rotating his drum riser. I don't think at a 2015 gig Ringo has to move his drum kit at any point....

The tradeoff on Brian's much more cushy (compared to the early 60's) solo tours is that he has to front the band all night. That probably is one of the things that might stress one out more. That's another reason I thought (get ready for it..) the C50 tour setup was great for Brian. He had spent 13 years getting more attuned to playing live, but was able to do much less heavy lifting. He was still more of a factor in shows than he was in, say, 1979/80, etc., but was able to be off to the side and share the workload (and all the good stuff that comes with performing) with the other guys.

I get that.  It all makes sense Jude.  And I did consciously suggest that it was only "ONE" of the 'things'...but I kind of felt...especially after hearing HOW he recreated Pet Sounds in its entirety...and then Smile...etc...that THAT meant a GREAT deal to him.  You know...to do it RIGHT...the way he intended it to sound.

So many times I go back to what Kris Kristofferson once said, and I'm paraphrasing..."If you want to know the truth, just ask the studio janitor; he doesn't have "a side".
[/quote]

Which is somewhat ironic since he actually WAS the studio janitor at one point in his life (after leaving West Point and the Army for Nashville).

You know, the more I read this thread, the more uncomfortable I am with its mere existence...  Jon Stebbins is a great guy, a wonderful author, and a tremendous fan of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.  He's also a valuable contributor to this board.  I'm not sure what purpose it serves to single out the one (perhaps) most controversial chapter from Jon's collective writings, and start a thread about it -- unless the purpose is to draw the attention of new members of this board (e.g. Ray) to that chapter, and sit back and watch their reaction.

For example, despite the fact that David Leaf and I were friends, in 2001 I was critical of some of David's choices related to the TNT "All-Star Tribute to Brian Wilson" in my review in ESQ.  But David and I talked after I printed that, and we worked it out.  And if I were to re-write that review today, I would almost certainly change it somewhat given that I now have 14 years of additional perspective.  But if somebody were to create a new thread called "Why was Lee Dempsey critical of David Leaf in ESQ?", IMO it would serve no purpose other than to open up an old wound that has already healed -- or create new wounds with new members of this board that never read that review the first time.

I really enjoy reading Jon's contributions to this board.  Jon's a tough guy, and I know he can stick up for himself, but this thread seems to be an exercise in pot-stirring.  I agree that the original poster had the right to question Stebbins' motives and sources, but if that was truly the purpose, it seems to me that the same result could just have easily been achieved in a personal message to Stebbins, and a personal response from him.  JMO.

Lee

I've been made to feel very uncomfortable on this board sometimes. Not by AGD or any honored guests, but there does seem to be an "old boys club" vibe here sometimes where outsiders/newcomers are made to feel very unwelcome or given a trial by fire as some sort of right of passage. Sometimes certain opinions that arent 100% in line with the status quo or in any way, in any conceivable way, disparaging of the band are met with derision. But I guess sh!t like that happens in any forum.

You were probably right to criticize whatever David Leaf did/said in the context of The Beach Boys.

Seems like a good point maybe to head for a beer… anyone coming? It's only 9am here in God's County but we can sit outside Booths supermarket with a bottle in a paper bag and chew the breeze. Last night I had a bottle of a novelty beer called Arse Liquor, actually an IPA which tasted suprisingly fresh and fine.

Anyone?

Ok, this is just ridiculous. It's not realistic to assume that one can just go meet the Brian Wilson. You act like it's as simple as just knocking on his front door or calling the house asking for an interview. These guys arent just going to stop everything and answer personal questions for every Joe Schmo who asks. I guess I'll just go ask Brian what the Second Movement to Surf's Up was, or what he thinks of my SMiLE Mixes, or have us compare acid trip experiences. Hey, it's my fault for not getting the truth, right?

Edit: Before the obligatory "well, that's what I did!" response, I just mean it's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be, it's not going to work for everyone, if you really wanted to help Sheriff or any of us I feel like more specific info on how you got connected would be nice. As it is, it just comes off as trying to shut us less connected fans up. Like rich people telling the poor to pull themselves up by their bootstraps sort of dismissive "motivation." Besides, even if people like me and Sheriff had the same access that some of you do, you really think some of our more personal questions would be answered? I can't imagine Brian would be willing to talk about his acid trips to anyone but his most closest friends if even them. I understand it's a sensitive, probably THE sensitive issue with him and I completely understand why. I wouldnt expect him to delve so deeply with someone he doesnt know like me.

I dont know... it just seems kinda naive to act like just anyone can go out there and get all their questions answered by anyone in the Beach Boys camp they want.

This thread is an example of why this board is a fabulous forum.  Honest posts from some top notch and highly respected people.  I also think it was a valid question for the original poster to ask.  It was in a published piece of work and Jon posts here so he was asked the question.  Jon was good enough to respond.  Ray also rightly jumped in to express his annoyance at the term 'handlers' and rightly so IMHO.  I offered up my own story to demonstrate the fact that if Brian had handlers around him now then I would never have gotten within 20 metres of him, far less an autograph and a picture.  Again hopefully this addresses the 'handlers' aspect of Jon's chapter.  There is no comparison with the Landy era and Brian's current life.  Brian has his independence, drives to the Deli etc.  then some people think "why is he allowed out himself? We're worried about him?" 

In summary, I believe Brian doesn't always feel comfortable on stage but overall it's a positive experience and he does it for the right reasons.  He's a tough guy, a survivor who has good people round him now.  And he has slowed down over the last couple of years and touring now is a lot more comfortable in terms of travel etc than it used to be so I'm sure physically he is well rested between shows.

When in doubt, turn to drink. My libation will have to wait until this evening. Purely medicinal purposes, To lubricate a sore throat. Honest.

I don't know now. I am no insider. And I don't have access to the BB/BW organization. Nor have I a chance of working for them in the near future. So I play from what I see/hear.

It seems to me that the current state of things shares a few traits with the Landy era, and with previous stages of Brian's life. Particularly in the realm of making him do things he initially doesn't want to, or fears, for the sake of health or therapy. You can always argue that no one forces Brian ultimately, and that he will do exactly what he wants to. I buy it: he thinks it is good for him and will eventually engage in an uncomfortable social situation, a tour, a meet and greet. He may even have a good time on occasion.


But really... How different is this from the "cajoled circus animal" David Leaf described in the first part of his tome, when reporting on the 1977 tour? Twenty years later, he would pep-talk Brian into going out there,  smile, and sing for the crowd. Was Brian's strength and will defeated by his entourage back in the late 70s? Or is it just a very similar case of Brian letting himself be forced to do something he instinctively rejects?

And what about the Landy era? What about all those social situations, including solo recitals, sets, recordings, interviews, that occurred during the Landy era? Leaving aside the dramatic effect of Landy's prescription drugs, and his power-mad intentions... Wasn't he constantly pep-talking Brian into social situations for the sake of therapy? How different was this particular aspect from the now (or, say, 1999). I understand that having loving support these days makes an enormous difference, that Brian may be a more stable and confident person thanks in no small part to this late-day stage exposure. But for us, observers, there lies an apparent paradox that is impossible to grasp or solve, just like it was for Leaf in 1977: he looks forced, he frowns, his live singing is extremelly irregular, he seemingly runs away from the stage when it's over, he doesn't interact with other people most of the time unless it's scripted. There is an artificial aura to all of this. It may be necessary. But it still raises questions.

John, it's 8:20 AM here on the East Coast across the pond, and I am reminded of a scene from the TV show "Cheers" where Norm comes in, and takes his seat at the bar.  "Coach, gimme a beer," he says.  Coach, the bartender replies, "But Norm, it's only 8AM..."  Norm pauses for a second, and says, "Then put some cornflakes in it."   :-D

Lee

:lol

Tonight's been is gonna be this little number (with apologies for the brewer's language…)

(http://directbeers.com/images/ver2DOGSPISS.jpg)

I prefer rice crispies with mine. Snap, crackle and burp!

Many performers throw up before they go on stage. Doesn't mean that because their anxiety is so acute, that they want to cease performing.

I find nothing contradictory in Brian being anxious and uncomfortable about aspects of being a performing artist, and yet to still have the drive and ambition to want to succeed in his chosen profession.

You simply cannot separate what Landy did from who Landy was. That's the point. He was a supposed mental health pro, he prescribed drugs to BW, and he had him monitored 24/7.

None of that is remotely like the roles that Melinda or David or Jeff played over the years. None of them are Brian's doctors, they don't prescribe him drugs, and they don't monitor his day to day life. True fact for those who might not be aware: Brian hasn't had a conservator in ages. Melinda had the role for a couple of years after they married, but it was ultimately ended and BW made a complete legal person again.

This means he's free to drive around and do what he likes. He can go to restaurants or skydiving shows or mime performances or comic book conventions. He can record music on his own, for his own amusement. He can hatch plans for a BB reunion on his own -- as he did.

He is a pretty lazy guy, though, and he understands this about himself. So in certain situations, he lets other folks be in the position to kick his butt, to make him better. He gave the job to Darian when he recorded BWPS vocals, for instance. But no one would argue that Darian is like Gene.

Ultimately, what matters is the quality of the work. The times I've questioned Brian's touring have been when the shows were only average. Or when he seemed bored or disengaged. I think he deserves to be treated like an adult who makes choices, some good and some bad.

Plus, doesn't he still have stage fright sometimes? And his ear bothers him when it's loud? Plus the occasional hallucinations with various people talking in his head? Plus the recurring back issues? My God, the guy's forgiven!

In addition to what clack and Wirestone and Mikie said, I think it should be pointed out that the worst thing a person with stage fright can do is let it get the better of them. That ends careers. Maybe it takes a little toughness from the outside to keep Brian's stage fright at bay and allow him to do what he really wants to do… make music for an appreciative audience.

I think comparing the Landy -era with what's happening now is misguided. Have you not read Ray Lawlor's posts? I also think that this animosity toward David Leaf is ignorant . If you were around in 1978, reading Leaf's book made every day seem like Christmas morning. It was the first book written about Brian and the Beach Boys and while it's not perfect I still love it and have great respect for David Leaf. Finally, 99.9% of us have no idea what goes on in Brian Wilson's life and what motivates him to do things. It's all just speculation.

<<Many performers throw up before they go on stage. Doesn't mean that because their anxiety is so acute, that they want to cease performing.
I find nothing contradictory in Brian being anxious and uncomfortable about aspects of being a performing artist, and yet to still have the drive and ambition to want to succeed in his chosen profession. >>

Al Jolson used to do this before every opening on broadway... and sometimes every night.  And nobody loved being on the stage more than he did...

One thing about Melinda being Brian's conservator has always puzzled me. As I understood the terms of the role, a conservator was appointed to make impartial decisions, financial and otherwise, for someone the court deemed in some way incapable of making such decisions. That being so, and if my understanding is wrong someone please correct me, I find it difficult to grasp how someone's wife can be impartial. Ray ? Anyone ?

It seems the implication in your statement is that Melinda could not (and therefore did not) have Brian's best interests in mind?  You are usually a bit more subtil Andrew.  Regardless, here is a quick definition I found, which I'm sure you could have found via google, as you've referred so many others in the past:

"
n. a guardian and protector appointed by a judge to protect and manage the financial affairs and/or the person's daily life due to physical or mental limitations or old age. The conservator may be only of the "estate" (meaning financial affairs), but may be also of the "person," when he/she takes charge of overseeing the daily activities, such as health care or living arrangements of the conservatee. The process is that a relative or friend petitions the local superior court for appointment of a specific conservator, with written notice served on the potential conservatee. The object of this concern is interviewed by a court-appointed investigator to determine need, desire and understanding of the potential conservatee as well as the suitability of the proposed conservator. An open hearing is held before the appointment is made. The conservator is required to make regular accountings which must be approved by the court. The conservator may be removed by order of the court if no longer needed, upon the petition of the conservatee or relatives, or for failure to perform his/her duties. (See: conservatee, guardian)"

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/conservator

EoL

Lest anyone doubt the meaning of impartial:

not partial or biased; fair; just:

To say x could not be impartial towards y is to question whether or not x could be unbiased, fair, and just toward y.  X is Melinda and y is Brian.

Wow, just...wow.

Melinda begged Carl Wilson to accept the role of Brian's conservator.  He refused. Had the probate court deemed Melinda Wilson unworthy she never would have been appointed Conservator

Thanks Ray. Seems my understanding of the requirements to be a conservator is lacking.

There is always Google.

Conservatorship in California (http://www.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp-conservatorship.htm)

There are a number of people who can file for a conservatorship:

The spouse or domestic partner of the proposed conservatee;
A relative of the proposed conservatee;
Any interested state or local entity or agency;
Any other interested person or friend of the proposed conservatee; and
The proposed conservatee, himself or herself.

In appointing a conservator, the court is guided by the best interests of the conservatee. If the proposed conservatee has nominated someone (and the proposed conservatee has the mental and physical ability to express his or her preference), the court will appoint that person as conservator unless it is NOT in the proposed conservatee’s best interests.

If the proposed conservatee has not or cannot nominate anyone, the law provides a list of preferences that the court generally follows when the court determines whether all these persons are qualified to serve as a conservator.

The order of preference is:
Spouse or domestic partner
Adult child
Parent
Sibling
Any other person the law says is okay
Public Guardian

I am probably going to catch some hell personally for some of what I am going to put forward here, but I have had it with this constant barrage of Landy comparison’s ; especially since I don’t think anyone posting this stuff has clue # one about what they are talking about, and I am fed up as well with some of the agenda’s that are becoming rather apparent to me. Ok; I will start here” “but really, how different is this from the “cajoled circus animal “ Leaf described “.  
Let’s compare the Landy era (both of them) and the post Landy era.
The objective of the first Landy era was to get Brian back to be a functional Beach Boy. So; hire the worst charlatan “doctor” imaginable. Twice. Check. Get him off recreational drugs. Check.  Get him on a diet. Check. Get him back in the studio. Check; didn’t matter if he was ready or healthy enough to do so.  Get him up on stage with The Beach Boys. Check. Didn’t matter if he was mentally prepared . Surround him with surf-nazi bodyguards 24 hours a day. Check.  Get him writing songs for the Beach Boys again. Check.  
Results:
Landy 1
Brian on stage with The Beach Boys; getting shoulder and back rubs from Scott Steinberg during concerts;
Brian 90 pounds or so lighter;
Brian solo on Saturday Night Live and Mike Douglas
15 Big Ones and Beach Boys Love You;
Landy One terminated by Steve Love
Dr Steve Schwartz, whom Brian liked , is hired as Brian’s new therapist. He is unfortunately killed in an accident , and Brian’s care is turned over to Stan Love, Steve Korthof and Rocky Pamplin. They ultimately get canned and Brian’s care is taken over by a team of revolving nurses.
Brian , under this regime,  quickly goes into a downward spiral , culminating with The Beach Boys hiring…
Landy 2, the sequel .

Get Brian off recreational drugs. Check . Get him on a diet. Check. Get him back in the studio and on stage with The Beach Boys. Check. Getting him writing songs for The Beach Boys. Check. Then Landy , knowing what a dysfunctional mess it really was , shifts gears and  then it really gets interesting; we head into Phase 2 of Landy 2.
Isolate Brian from all family including his mother, brother , daughters, as well as all his friends. Check. Move Landy and his girlfriend into Brian’s house in Pacific Palisades, and Brian moves to a complete dump of a tiny shack in Malibu. Check. Put Landy lyrics on everything Brian writes. Check. Control Brian with cocktails of illegally prescribed prescription drugs. Check. Have Brian attend every high profile Beach Boy event ( examples : Reagan inaugural ball, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame). Check. Have Brian record solo record with Landy as Executive Producer. Check.  Have Brian’s will amended to making Landy and Morgan the recipient’s of 80% of Brian’s estate. Check. I can keep going. But let’s tabulate the results of Landy 2:
Brian contributes a few mediocre songs to BB 85 LP; as well as BB “Still Cruisin’” LP ;
Brian writes “Let’s Go To Heaven in My Car” ; released as a single and for the movie “Police Academy whatever number;
BW 88 Solo album released;
Sweet Insanity rejected due to lyrical and production contributions from Landy;
Brian sings background vocals for Linda Ronstadt’s version of Jimmy Webb’s “Adios”;
The Landy inspired “Wouldn’t it Be Nice” alleged autobiography comes out ; Brian later admits under oath he had nothing to do with it and never even read it;
Brian completely isolated from all family and friends;
Have I forgotten anything ?
Landy removed by the State of California; too complicated to go into all that here.

Let’s move to the post Landy/Melinda Wilson era;
Melinda Ledbetter and a close friend whom I won’t mention here, meet with Dr. Jolyon West; Director of the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, and beg him to get involved in the Brian Wilson case. Dr. West is known for performing Jack Ruby’s psychiatric evaluation; his main area’s of focus were drug and alcohol abuse, cults and brainwashing. He subsequentally agrees to take on Brian Wilson as a patient. Based on this meeting; Dr West and his team were assigned by the court during the conservancy hearings post Landy.
Brian gets married to Melinda Ledbetter;
As Brian’s COURT APPOINTED conservator, after Carl Wilson refused the role,  Melinda Wilson retains Dr.’s West, Marmer and Connor; ironically headquartered at UCLA , only a few miles from 10452 Bellagio.
So in this new environment, and with the right team of real doctors, let’s review what has been accomplished:

Real doctors, real diagnosis, real treatment. Check.
Move from shack into real house. Check.
Take a few years off to recover from Landy. Check.
Conservancy removed. Check.

Management team of Jean Sievers and Melinda Wilson involved in or responsible for:
“I Guess I Just Wasn’t Made For These Times” film and soundtrack.
“Orange Crate Art” with Van Dyke Parks
“Imagination”
Brian Wilson starts solo tours.
“ Live at the Roxy”
“An All-Star Tribute to Brian Wilson” live at Radio City Music Hall in NY; as well as DVD
“Brian Wilson On Tour “ DVD
“Pet Sounds “ Live ; tour and CD
“Getting’ In Over My Head”
“ SMiLE” live
“Brian Wilson Presents Smile”
“What I Really Want For Christmas”
“ Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin” CD and tour
“Songs in the Key of Disney”
“That Lucky Old Sun” tour and CD
The Beach Boy’s C50 tour
“That’s Why God Made the Radio”
“ The SMiLE Sessions” box set
Ivor Novello award in London
Inducted into the Songwriter’s Hall of Fame in New York
Musicare’s Man of the Year Award
Queen Elizabeth’s 50th Jubilee ; Buckingham Palace, London
Kennedy Center Award , Washington DC
Two Grammy’s.
Paul McCartney’s Minefield Event

I may be forgetting something but you get the drift. Does anyone with the sense that God gave grapefruit thinks that all of that could be “coerced” out of Brian , or any other artist ? Yes; sometimes Brian has to be pushed , that is part of his illness and you know what he says each and every time ? “Thank you so much for pushing back on me with that ; it was great and you helped me make it happen.” Everything that has been done, with respect to the health and welfare of Brian Wilson , both professionally and personally, has not been done in a vacuum.  Unless you have walked in Melinda Wilson’s shoes , or in Jean Sievers shoes, then you are oblivious of what either one of them does or has accomplished.

At the end of the day , after all of the above, the ultimate accomplishments are Brian's.  He is the one who pulled it all off, from putting together what has been called the best band in the world ( and they are), writing , arranging and producing  alot of great music, them performing it live on the road and getting it out there.  Ultimately, its his show, with a little help from his friends and immediate family.

G’Day.

Ray, you missed out:

back in touch with his daughters, records with them, goes to Mike's wedding with Melinda, adopts his kids, new album coming out, new book, new film etc, etc ;)

Seriously though, if your post is not the best post on here I don't know what is! ;D.   You have hit the nail on the head by laying it all out in such a manner.  I think the point you make about nobody being able to coerce that much out of an artist is a very salient one.  Landy and his methods couldn't do it and if Brian wasn't content and happy post Landy I very much doubt he would participate in all that he has since he's been with Melinda.  Well said!

Great guy, that Ray Lawlor, violating Brian's doctor/patient confidentiality issues and his privacy. Oh, but he's a well-paid aviation executive with enough time and money to go around chasing after his so-called friend. The friend who no longer apparently speaks to either David Leaf or Van Dyke Parks, for whatever reasons (wonder what happened to those relationships of Brian's). Every time Ray comes on to a thread, a chill comes over and everyone starts talking about beer. Whatever. I guess I have an agenda. He reminds me of Frank Lima, a sycophant of Ray Davies who follows Ray around on various tours and has lunch and dinner with him. Frank also participates in Kinks message boards, but at least he's nice to fans and doesn't try to be high-handed and try to set the record straight. As if he'd know, because he doesn't.

I'm waiting for Mike Love to send me a check. Because every time someone says something vaguely critical of Team Wilson or his friends (who for all anyone knows may have been sent here by Melinda, in exchange for continued access to Brian, or they did it on their own with that thinking in mind), people are accused of being closepersonafriends of Mike Love. Flame away.

Wow, we have the best and worst posts in the board's history in one thread. Kudos to Ray setting everybody straight and shame on Kittykat for being an asshat.

What the actual f*** do you ever add to any post or thread. And who the hell do you think you are?

I am not even gonna flesh this out, but here are some bullet points:

- Ray is a great guy.
- What parts of Ray's post are confidential?
- Ray is not "chasing after his so-called friend", he is hanging out with and supporting his friend.
- Friendships come and friendships go, the circle of our social lives.
- People like beer.
- Yes, you have an agenda and you act like the human version of SiP.

Kittykat bringing buckets of class along as usual. Personal attacks, slander, conspiracy theories, and never a good word to say about anybody. Rob is right, your agenda is showing! Might want to feign more concern about BW's back to show how well-intentioned this all is.

Go on, distract everybody with more personal attacks. You think that'll somehow distract everybody from Ray's points, right? Hint: it won't. It's so hilarious that in the same paragraph you can accuse people of being "sent here by Melinda" you manage to express such shock horror of being accused of being J. Love, A. Love, or a Love. Can you not take a step back and realize you're doing the same damn thing?

He strikes me as a particularly ornery person. He basically told me to get lost and post somewhere else when I bumped a couple SMiLE threads because he didn't want talk about it. Nevermind that if that's the case, anyone could just, y'know, scroll down to another topic they *do* wanna talk about. And now it looks like he's doing the same thing here and shaming someone for talking about a different topic.

I don't get it. I thought discussion was the whole point of a forum. If you have nothing to contribute, or you don't like the topic, move on to one you do. But coming into threads just to silence other people who are passionate about the subject at hand and have worthwhile things to say is nothing but detrimental to the board and a waste of his own time. 

We ARE discussing, Mujan. You made some good points too. Let's not pretend we're being silenced or shut down here!

EDIT

No, I'm talking about Kittykat. I thought that was clear

Mujan, the reason I got confused is I see Kittykat as a she, not a he.

:lol

I didn't mean in this thread, I was talking about my past experiences with Kittykat. I thought that was clear but I guess not.

Once again, I was talking about Kittykat, not Ray.

Sorry, will edit that out.

It's all good.

Huge apologies! Somebody mention beer. f***, I'm not much of a drinker. Useless in these situations.

Is KittyKat a man?  For some reason I always thought he was a she!  Anyway, I don't think Kitty is J. Love or A. Love but maybe A. Morgan!

No worries. Guess I should have specified.

And that, my friends, is the very last post you will EVER see of this asshat. I don't care if somebody spams my PM box begging for his/her/it to be reinstated. It will NEVER happen. KittyKat is now at the bottom of the litter box and will never return.

Edit-

In case anyone asks, KittyKat's banning has nothing to do with being critical of Brian*; he/she/it has been asking for it for well over a year now (literally...I've never had anybody *dare* me to ban them before). It's one thing to have an opinion. It's another to actively try to start sh*t, like this feral freak has done pretty much since registration. This was more along the lines of a 'last straw' type of deal.

*-Oddly enough, I've had a a couple of people accuse me of being Brian-biased AND biased towards Mike. Guess it depends on the season and alignment of planets :lol

I appreciate Ray's excellent last post, and his answers to a series of questions I'd raised. Just to clarify: I am a regular fan who lives in another country, 10.000 miles from L.A., with no agenda regarding the BBs organization whatsoever. Anyone who's watched a BW show is entitled to their concern about this beloved musician, as much as close acquaintances are entitled to set the record straight when needed. All is fine; I'm glad Brian is around playing and recording music and living in a loving and caring environment. But please don't blame me or any other fan for being concerned by some of Brian's expressions or behavior; not all of us are insiders and thus need to ask questions.

As a witness to Landy's first AND second eras, as well as his time with Melinda, I can tell you that milieu therapy was needed for Brian to be able to break the self-destructive patterns he had established. The problem that occurred with Landy the first time was that he became greedy financially and was sacked. The second time he did a solid job using milieu therapy to detox Brian and to help him to establish healthy habits. The rub was that Dr. Landy thought he knew more about psychotropic medications than he really did, and a toxic mix caused very serious health problems for Brian as he got into his late 40s and 50s. Melinda, to her credit, saw the warning I gave the people who needed to separate Landy and Brian, and took that warning seriously. The guardianship was a legal status NOT a psychiatric status. Landy had insinuated himself into the medical, social, and most egregiously, the financial part of Brian's life. A team of advocates worked with the late Carl Wilson to "Free Brian." Afterward, the presiding judge required that a conservatorship be established to prevent Landy from returning and to keep Brian's finances and medical situation from further deteriorating. That Melinda Wilson took the conservatorship was needed, because Carl Wilson was caring for his and Brian's mother, who was not well. It is tragic to think that Carl died so young, instead of seeing his family expand. Melinda discharged her conservatorship with the SUPERVISION of the court.  Brian had his conservatorship stopped due to his psychotherapeutic progress and vastly improving physical health. He married Melinda, and their union has lasted nearly 20 years. They have adopted 5 children, who adore their dad. The music progress that Ray Lawlor cites is impressive. But none of it would have happened without  Melinda, and Ray Lawlor and Jerry Weiss. This "circle of support" as we term it in therapy, helped Brian feel safe enough to take risks musically that he never dreamed were possible. This would include playing live, which gave him the tangible and real adoration he needed to be validated for creating gorgeous music, thereby helping him to feel safe and motivated to open the spiritual spigot that he needs to compose all those great songs. Is he still affected by his neurochemical imbalances in his brain? YES. Do these neurochemical imbalances have to hinder him from writing music, playing  live and feeling love of the audience wash over him, and produce and arrange new music? NO! As long as that circle of support, people who love him as he is, not how they want him to be, he will be free to create as his spirituality moves him for as long as he lives.

Wonderful post, Peter.

Holy crap.  What?

Thanks for that informative post, Peter! Well put.

Thanks Billy...'cause I didn't want to read that kind [kittykat I mean] of response to Peter's addition to the wrap on this subject.  This has been a GREAT thread...and a horror show all rolled into one.  But I do think we now collectively have the up-to-date final word on where Brian is as of January 17, 2015 at 4:36...give or take...est.  [and that place is a pretty good one.  REALLY great actually.]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pMZseigAGek

This is a very informative video.  Any thought that Melinda is a product of Eugene Landy, which I have seen posts that insinuate that, she claims to have faught against Landy from the beginning.  Now, the question of the percent of Brian's songs in his solo albums that he has actually written or produced is an interesting one. I have heard different things from different people on that.  Having said that, it seems that his current management and handlers care a lot about Brian. Weather we agree with everything they do or not. I think even Mike Love would admit that Brian is in a much better place than he was with Landy. Speaking of which, has Mike ever made that comparison?

No, Mike just kindly implies that BW is controlled now by prescription meds instead of street drugs. Really loving thing to say to the press.

Oo, just caught up with the last page. This is one happy Per-twat! Altho if she wanted to mock my real name, I also used to get junk mail as Andre Percapitaincomeski.

Excellent post from Peter. Thanks for the insight.

I second this decision. Completely.

The thing is...too...This site is what it is because of the folks who come in to post their special gems of unique and REAL information.  And that will continue if dolts are allowed to just spew on everything these guests add to the real conversation?

Gotta keep the pick-pockets at bay...or those who come bearing gifts will simply stay away.  This, off the top of my head, is THE MOST informative thread I've ever seen in all my years of reading Beach Boys related information on-line.  Horse's mouth fact...not opinion, speculation or educated guesses.  Outstanding stuff.

Rock on Brian.

:woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

Now can we have Ghost back, please?
 :hat

Agreed all around.

 :drunks  :thumbsup As a non-mod, I support this decision. :rock Now then...about that beer? :drunks

Billy "The Hammer" Castillo strikes again! 8)

Well that was.......interesting.  Glad to know I am "well paid" and I travel around to meet my "so called friend" and am a Frank Lima sycophant wannabe ! I better have a fresh look at my checking account and delete Brian's phone numbers from my cell phone.

Moronic.  What I will address though is the false accusation that I "violated Brian's doctor/patient confidentiality issues and his privacy.  What I posted, the information about Brian's doctors 'i.e. who they are, is Public Record.  I posted nothing about his therapy or what his medication is ; nor would I ever What rubbish.

 The Board should be about musical discussion and debate, not about the personal lives of these guys and their families. I understand the interest in Brian's story ; it's compelling ; and there can and is intelligent dialoge about his continuing story.

There is a new place that recently opened up by me called Das Biergarten.  Bavarian joint.  I am going there in an hour to have a few well required Haaker Pshoor's , a very nice Bavarian Weissbier.  Cheers KK

I don't (rather, can't) drink, but I bow in your general direction and let out a giant 'huzzah'
:lol

Ray, being the executive you are, do you have enough clout to scramble a few jets and send them out to pick some of us up so we can meet you for a few Haaker Pshoor's ?  

Would you like a Gulfstream V or a Lear ?

Actally maybe a Boeing Business Jet (B-737) will be required

Aisle seat for me. Bob Hope Airport is good.

SS beer convention 2015.

Stellar idea. Somewhere warm please ! But the beer must be cold. And no godda...mn Bud Lights !

But BUT what do you have against Belgian/Brazilian beer?

I'm gonna stow away in the luggage compartment, as long as airport security doesn't have the 'special' dogs nearby...

Chris....bring it on ....

Billy, I believe that weirdly aligned planet was a giant hairball coughed toward Earth, but you nuked it and saved the day.  Now sycophant that I am, I'm trying to kiss ass and get in line to have Ray send me a G-V, too.

Talk about hotboxing....

:lol
Save me a spot!!!

8) :lol

Ray, next time Brian is scheduled to play Brussels, give me a ring and I will meet you over there.  I absolutely love Belgian Weissbier (no offense to my German friends!).  The last time I was in Brussels I consumed so much Weissbier that the six years of middle school and high school French that was buried 30 years deep in my brain came to the forefront, and I was complimented by the locals for my fluency...

And who knows, maybe we can have a Weissbier with Weiss...

Lee

With Jerry, the comedy possibilities are always awesome...

Lee

That rules out Scotland for a while.  We are covered in snow, with arctic weather forecast for the next week!  On the plus side the beer is always cold  ;D

Thanks for that post Lee. BB personal issues are not really my favorite area of either fandom or authoring, and this thread reminds me why. But beer is good.

I'm in.

While the beer connoisseurs are here; Decisions, decisions - Which one to pour. "All of them" isn't an option.  ;D

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/beer1_zpsef71e41d.jpg)

Left to right for me!   :)

That sounds like a plan!
Left:  :beer
Center:  :beer
Right:  :beer

And here I am sitting home with a fridgefull of Bud Lights! Had a party last week with 40 people here and wanted to cover all bases so bought a case of it-NO TAKERS-not one. Man, could I go for a high powered Zywiec right now.

Club Kokomo's drink of choice right there! Maybe Mike will drop by and have a few! :lol

Got plenty of Kool Aid.........wait a minute-there's someone at the door! ;)

Ohhhh yeah!    :ohyeah

Like talking about beer is a bad thing!

I'm currently a bartender at a place that ONLY sells craft beers. We carry something called "Punk IPA" from Scotland - the best beer I've ever known <3

And of course, a big thank you to Ray Lawlor for everything he has added to this message board. Unfortunate that people like KittyKat are so unpleasant AND vocal about it.

Glad you didn't take that dick seriously, Ray, and hope you'll stick around for awhile.  Was thinking about Stella Artois with my Thai food tonight but decided to have a Tsingtao instead. Smart move. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

And thanks to Billy for lowering the ban hammer.  And thanks to Pete for another good post. The Smiley is back in bidness!

I am missing out on all the beers. Its 33 here on the sunny Central Coast of NSW time for a cold one! I support what Billy was basically forced to do.

1st step was daring to be banned
The 2nd step was slandering ontor pertawst
The 3rd step step was slandering and insulting Brian's good friend Ray Lawlor
The 4th step was being banned


Three strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out
Three Strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out

Kitty Kat was really a stupid jerk in the first place.
This poster was always a nuisance
this poster was really a jerk
this poster was the worst

Three Stirkes you're out
Three strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out
Three Strikes you're out


On JAnuary 17 th at 1:20 PM Kitty Kat was banned from smileysmile forevermore
Kitty KAt was knocked to the floor
Kitty Kat did not get back up and knock Billy C to the floor
She was a stupid asshole

Three strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out
Three strikes you're out

Rock over london
Rock on chicago

Subway: Eat Fresh!

It's usually me suggests going for a beer, but not for this reason.

The beer invites usually occur when a thread's in meltdown, when things are getting daft, when things are getting uncomfortable or, worse, when Smilers are ripping each others throats out.

It's my way of suggesting we all take a step back, chill, and share a beer cos we basically all have the same band's music in our souls and so many good things to discuss.

Thanks everyone for not interpreting those beer invites the way KittyKat did. Ray's always one of the first to join me at the Smiley Bar, so i know he'll not have worried. {edited here for unnecessary comment about KK… apologies.}

And thanks to Ray and Peter for such fantastic posts that took this thread to (yet another) level. And thanks to Billy for cleaning up the place.

Last night I had the Saltaire Brewery's Chocoholic, a stout laced with chocolate syrup and other stuff. Might as well have had hot drinking chocolate. Tonight thinking it will be another IPA to cleanse the palate.

Have you see the Stella Artois brewery in Belgium, Mikie? It's so big it put me right off the drink. Weird, I know. All beers, btw, should be served at room temperature. And I'd start with the Sierra Nevada, Craig, because it's the only one of those ales I'm familiar with…

This round gets bigger and more expensive every time…

Why do people complain when topics stray even slightly but if it's about beer it's okay? :'(

(This is not a complaint, I don't care, conversations will naturally drift from one thing to another, but man some folks get upset over this and why is it okay here oh my god jeez)

Dunno how we get away with it — maybe it's the unifying power of a shared beer; maybe we're all alcoholics (except for those who aren't); maybe we're all Beer Boys at heart…

I'll be looking for a beer at one other BBs RAH gigs this summer if anyone's around…

But what of us who do not drink beer, or any form of alcohol whatsoever ?

In my personal case, granted, due to a youthful excess that became semi-legendary in my hometown, but the point is nonetheless valid.

Perhaps we could raise cold glasses of Coca-Cola, then? :)

I'll even buy you one, AGD!

DC, please - ice, no lemon.

Right on. Next time we share a room, remind me to pick up the tab.

My thanks to all who've shared information, background, understandings and observations.

While the thread certainly had its bumps, there were some informative (and occasionally inspirational) moments throughout.

I may not post much, but I read a lot. My thanks to all who contribute their expertise and love with the rest of us.

Absolutely. There are no exclusions at the Smiley Bar - all drinks are served and all are welcome, historians, authors, tee-totallers, musicians, fans, voyeurs and all, all included.

 :wave

 :lol Not likely down this way, mate! Dry lagers or Pale Ale's chilled to near freezing on a hot Summer day (especially after you've mowed the lawn) ahhhh :beer

Only if you live in an igloo John. ;)

Das Biergarten? :lol Should be Der Biergarten, but whatever. ;D

I think I understand your confusion. However beer – like cricket, Yorkshire pudding, God and rain – comes from Yorkshire and we understand it best here. Room temp, otherwise it's lager (or perhaps a fizzy faux-beer "brewed in the English tradition").

Anyway this isn't the place for discussing beer - the pub is the place. See you there…

Zywiec porters are great tasting for being 9.5 alcohol content! 8)

Good idea. I'll bring some Grolsch then  ;D

Now where to organise one?

There’s a reason some of us have grown tired of everyone out there second-guessing Brian’s management team, and more personally, his wife, family and friends.  I confess to having the very human, crappy tendencies of listening to rumors and expressing my own ill-informed opinions about people’s personal lives far, far too often.  I also realize that this is an open forum where anyone who is accepted can express passionate opinions based on little information, no information or flat out lies they’ve read or heard  – the sad side of gossip, public figures and the internet.

On the other hand, I do have a perspective here that I doubt most of you reading this have.  The thing is - I’m well aware that when I was there with Brian, however well-intentioned I was, I didn’t have a clue how to deal with the overwhelming world that surrounds him.  I had no power, no serious money and I was ridiculously naïve.  But I was there and I did try.  Since then I have been in positions of authority for a few decades and learned how easy it is for some to sit on the sidelines and be critical while never personally being put to the test.  None of us have Brian’s world fired at us point blank like Brian, Melinda and Brian’s management team.

How many of the people making insidious little comments clearly attacking Melinda Wilson have been anywhere near her shoes, much less walked in them?  When I was there up front, and other times on the sidelines, I saw people treating Brian like a commodity, like someone who needed to be manipulated and intimidated “for his own good,” and I saw a lot of people – some in real authority - who didn’t have a clue who he was trying to run his life from various directions. 

I saw other people who I knew loved Brian very much who had no idea how to deal with the situation either.  And I certainly saw a lot of people with their own selfish agendas acting like the “good guy.”  Eugene Landy was hired for a second time, for whatever reason.  Do you need any more evidence that the people involved had no idea how to give Brian a workable support system at that time?

That was Brian’s world since he became a “hit-making machine” as a teen and the genius icon shortly thereafter.  At the same time he was - and is - all that, he also has to maintain the sensitivity level it takes to create that beautiful music - meaning he needs a safe environment where he can work, free of distractions and the crap that makes up a lot of life, and Melinda has to spend each day maintaining that space while protecting both his business and personal interests.

I met Melinda back when Landy was still around and liked her very much.  Well, it’s now been – what? – 20-25 years or so?  I remember hoping she was up to the job of being Brian’s wife and support system – something I didn’t take lightly and had no idea how anyone would manage.  So, taking a look back now, how have things gone?

Having seen Ray Lawlor’s post thoroughly describing Brian’s personal and professional accomplishments with Melinda “having his back,” I don’t feel the need to go there.  Equally important to all that is the fact that Brian is in an environment where he feels safe enough that he can smile and relax, and we can all see that.
 
If that didn’t reassure me enough about Brian’s situation, all of my conversations with Melinda over the years have been deeply reassuring.  She’s a funny, bright, straight-shooting woman who genuinely loves Brian, who actually gets who he is (a rarity, believe me) and she’s willing to fight for him and his well-being everyday. 

Melinda has proven to be up to the job I worried about so many years ago, so it surely would be nice to see her appreciated a bit more here, second-guessed a whole lot less, and to have those nasty little insinuations stop.  The removal of one mysteriously motivated, hostile poster to many of us, including Melinda will help. 

And, you are certainly free to post under the SS guidelines as you will.  I’d just like to ask you one thing as you express yourself here:  Are you better qualified to handle Brian’s situation than the people you’re criticizing?  If not, exactly what’s your point?

RIP Wesley Willis!

I'm in. You need at least one German guy there.

I failed to mention...I'm not on the Christmas card list - don't send them and receive few.  Also, I have little to no desire to go backstage - that's where people are working, so unless I'm part of the program or am family or a friend in support of the musicians, I'd just be a pain in the ass, and I receive no checks from CA other than the people for whom I write forecasts, just in case there are suspicions about my motives in posting here.

This is not Nam, Kittykat. It's Smiley Smile, there are rules.

They're not cheap either which is fine because after two installments of said rocket fuel, you're well on your way to la la ville.   :beer :beer :spin

Oh, hell yes.

Debbie.  I ALWAYS enjoy reading your comments.  Your insight only adds to the clarity in a meaningful way.  I'd send you a Christmas card but I don't do THAT anymore. :old  <  That's S. Claus by the way.  Off season look.

Another great post, Debbie… if you'll join us at the bar, I'd like to be the first to buy you a drink!   :drunks

Thanks Add Some...Santa off-season works for me!

FINALLY, somebody invites me to the bar!  Yes, please.

Debbie, definitely value your posts, and very well said.

wolves game and convention afterwards? ;)

Or the convention at smile holland's house? ;D

I always enjoy Debbie's posts too. Good to see Melinda being given due credit for all she has done for Brian.

I'm no beer expert but I'm happy to try to learn! Otherwise any bar that can offer some good fizz or red wine will do nicely.

Okay, so the ladies are officially invited to the bar.  I just listened to Mike Grant's show which featured "The Enchanted Tiki Room" in it's Catalina Island songs selected by Dennis Kelley (of Luxuria radio's BB/BW show fame), so - in this cold weather in the N. Hemisphere (well and hot weather in the South come to think of it), can we do umbrella drinks to the point that we might throw up, take a nap, and then get back to the beer?

I am up for that! ;D

Yea!  Smile Brian is in!

Well said, Deb. I was fortunate enough to meet her at a sound check. She was talking with Jeff and turned around to me and said hi, how are you? We talked for a moment about how BW was-extremely pleasant and seemed very kind indeed.

OSD - BW is very kind indeed...and a lovable devil when required too!  There's nothing boring about him, or Melinda!

(https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/10373846_10153020072477241_5918086055265412108_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=75caf8b7e117423ff4af485fba286219&oe=552F98AB&__gda__=1428399316_627aea9f2b807286acdc378d42001811)

Looks like BW's at the Smiley Bar (this posted yesterday on his FB page).  Hope he's buying…

John, can we have the beer convention at that county hall you always talk about?

I'm getting sick of these umbrella drinks...Do you think he'd go for the fine German and Belgian beers and a nice bottle of champagne for the ladies?

Who knows... but I just got my hands on the C50 article from Rolling Stone, and it said Brian's drink of choice was apparently Miller Lite!  :lol

Nice pic of Brian but I'm disappointed.

Where are the electrically charged thunderbolts of lightning? ;)

The door's always open for a BB-fan.  :)

But a convention means we need some special guests, right?
Or is beer and good music sufficient enough ?

That was my ex's beer of choice.  Then he'd insist on only the finest Scotch.  Maybe it's an acquired taste?!

Ray...I have always enjoyed your perspective on these topics. Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I've been curious about how you and Brian ended up becoming such close friends.

I recommend Löwenbräu dunkel of Bavarian beers (which was unfortunately out when I was at the Löwenbräu Keller in Sydney). Do you have that at the Biergarten? How sympathetic to open a joint called "Biergarten" (even with the grammatical flub lowbacca pointed out)! :) That's Germany for you, kindergarten and biergarten. :-D


No problem! My favorite non-German beer is a Czech one though called Staropramen dark. Of the Belgian beers I like Leffe brune.

For those who don't drink alcohol I recommend Malzbier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malzbier

Ah, Stainforth Village Hall… yes indeed. Just around the corner from the Craven Heifer, in case anyone wants to escape the beer convention for a while and go for a pint…

Hell yes, that's where the convention will be! ;D