The Smiley Smile Message Board

One critique I have heard over the months of how Hunt and Lane moderate their board was that they deleted threads too often as censorship.  Frankly, that never bothered me and still doesn't.  But since this forum has used that as a critique, please let the record show that multiple threads have been doinked here lately.  They probably should have been doinked all things considered.  But that just means that thread deletion is a valid method of moderating, and everyone cut Hunt/Lane some slack on that front in the future.


That's all, editorial comment done.

Well, the thread still exists. Its just in purgatory. :3d

I don't mind the discussions, you guys are more than welcome to talk about anything on here. I just find it hard to deal with all the personal insults that start to come out of people, its foul and unnecessary. I might disagree with someone's opinion on something, but it doesn't mean I should just go off on them...no matter what is said. If anything, I'd send them a private message with how I really feel.

Jeff, I've heard two versions of the "critique":

1) Some were not happy that threads/messages were being deleted by Hunt/Lane.

2) Some were not happy that Hunt/Lane criticized this board concerning threads/messages being deleted, when they used that as a moderating tool.

I say, let the moderators moderate.  I have no issues with Jon, John, Jason, Joe, Billy, or anyone else.  They all moderate better than I did or ever will.

So I take it "The Thread" got doinked?

I didn't disagree with his opinion, I disagreed with his very existence. I stated the cause privately, but you seem to want to call me out here, so here's a reminder of our earlier PM exchange...















For Rerun:

(http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2241/uzi1cg.gif)

Please don't ban Sebastian, guys. Don't censor one of the best writers and coolest people around. If so, I split too. Which I am sure would make many people happy.

Anyone laying odds on how long this thread stays up till it gets doinked?

I should have just kept my mouth shut.

Just reread it again. Great post, thoroughly justified. Certain people are allowed to make incendiary and insulting comments, but because they don't use profanity, it's OK? That's hypocritical bull**it and not the way to run a board. Tell BOTH SIDES to stop, not just one. That's what moderation is, not the side-taking and censorship that's happening now.

I tried, Ian, I tried.  I am no mod, but I tried.

It should be, and the one below it as well. That's filled with offensive propaganda too, and is the next place this fight will be continued if these types of discussions and threads are not roundly ended for eternity.

You did the right thing, Jeff. Don't at all feel bad about starting this one. These things needed to be said.

Sebastian isn't getting banned anytime soon. No-one is getting banned.

FWIW, Rerun's more out of line than Sebastian ever was. Sebastian just told him what is.

I never called you out in that message, neither directly or indirectly. But you're more than welcome to prove me differently.

Also, what I said in my reply goes for both sides.

Cool. Finely handled.
How bout this, ya'll. Play some groovy toons at loud volume, and remind yourself why we're supposed to enjoy being here. Doctor's prescription, kiddies. Take five and call me in the morning.

I would be very unhappy if you or Sebastian left.  I want you right here where I can see you.


I agree, moderators shouldn't take sides in an argument based upon friendship, or alliances, or their personal opinions or feelings about a subject or person.  That doesn't mean a moderator always "tells both sides to stop."  It depends upon what each individual side or party is doing or saying.  If one side, for instance, is simply, calmly, politely stating an opinion, perhaps backed up with facts or statistics, and the other side doesn't like it, there's nothing to moderate.  If one side, for instance, is ranting, raving, cursing, making personal attacks, pretty much losing their minds and the argument, NOW there's something to moderate.


I find anything to do with the "Winter Soldier" hearings to be offensive propaganda, but I'm not going to demand any mention of it be expunged from the record.  Let people have their say, curb the personal attacks, and don't cry foul just because someone won't accept a particular agenda.

Charles, your mode of attacks are quiet and insidious. They are on the down-low and filled with patronising tone. You are dismissive of other people. That makes you just as guilty of perpetuating this as anyone else. Your high horse is dead. I shot it. Don't ask me to kick it. You are no better or worse than anyone.
You take the position of having the correct Christian view, with your right-wing conspiracy theories given holy weight. That's wrong, man. Jesus doesn't vote Republican. Or Democrat.

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...

~Theodore Roosevelt


Then take up your shield, brave Knight. Cease fire ignored by you, everyone take that note.

And, you know, if someone wants to back up my thoughts on Charles' methods of goading and patronisation, please do. I know you're there.

FWIW Ian, I told Charles personally that I thought he was pushing his luck with some of his comments.

Let the record show, he told me the same thing, several times.

I called you out for cursing at Chuck, I could say that Chuck goes out of his way to start controversial topics (like the pro-Bush thread that looks like a Neil Young thread) to get an interesting reaction.  Don't know if I would hammer that in the same way you do or I rebuked you, but it sure doesn't help a volatile situation to pose controversial topics in a provocative manner.

Again, as he noted, I was very fairly called out by Jeff a few times during the thread. No favoritism working there.

What I said to Jeff earlier. I think a lot of us here have struggles to wholly reconcile our faiths with our own inner value-systems. But only some of us can admit these conflicts. The trespassing values that glare from the opposite camp are of a damn sight less honorable and selfless stripe than the ones shared by those less disingenuous among us.

I think Chuck has gone out of his way to provoke Ian, and will keep on attempting to do so as long as this forum runs. He obviously has a lot to prove. Why else would a man deliberately, repeatedly choose to ignore the searing truth of one impassioned, heartfelt post after another in favor of twisting those words for the sake of a doomed one-upmanship bid?
Ian cares with all his heart. I can trust that.

Thanks, Sebastian.
And to everyone else, may I point out that Sebastian agreed with me not one whit regarding the "Laurie-gate" incident and heaped much scorn upon me for my role in it. He has been no stranger to laying me to waste with great force when he has felt I have been wrong. I have felt his scorn as much as Rerun or Chuck ever will. So, favoritism again has nothing to do with it.

Sebastian, caring with all your heart doesn't make something "searingly true."  I believe, as you do, that Ian cares deeply about what he posts about.  I just don't agree with his opinions on many topics, including but not limited to, Iraq, abortion, the Bush administration.  Having passion and good intentions doesn't guarantee what you are saying has any basis in reality.

I don't go out of my way to provoke Ian.

I just like the cool sh*t you write about music, personally, Ian.

I read these threads occasionally, but don't respond, as I believe this board is a great escape from everyday life (mine happens to be as a litigation attorney who argues for a living).
Anytime anyone wants to get caught up in the crap going around these threads, just take a step back and read what's going on in the Congo and around the world, and thank your lucky stars you are priviledged enough to be online daily and not drinking mud and watching your children die from disease.
Everyone should just chill and put on All Summer Long, A Hard Day's Night, and maybe BWPS and enjoy life while we have it. Have a cigar and appreciate the good sh*t.

Chuck, I think you clearly go out of your way to provoke Ian.  Anyone who has read the board for the last year can see the pattern.

I find his ultimate compassion and his priorities very easy to relate to and make sense of. Many/most of them mirror my own as close to exactly as you could get. That's "searing truth" and "reality" to me.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ian hurts for a whole lot of ppl. So much that it makes him angry and sick. I can connect with that in a flash. So Rerun and whoever can mock all they want. That we feel that way enough to be mocked is proof of our being on the right path.

I will pin up my soul on the wall and let people read it. They can laugh, they can cry. It's up to them. I really don't care
-Kevin Rowland

If not agreeing with Ian is the same as provoking him, yes.

By those standards, Sebastian, the mocking of my beliefs means I'm on the right path, too.

Who mocks first, man? And who fights clean? That's what we do here, so best not to deny it..we fight.

No, I mean the patronizing little semantic games like "I don't see how feeding the hungry is a sin."  You knew what he meant, but you ignored the meaning and nit-picked at the phrasing.  That's provoking, not disagreeing.

Chuck, you're just not being honest with yourself. You know you get something out of arguing with me, and that when you are able to get me to fly off the handle, for you, it means you're proving a point that you're the "better person". Why can't you just admit it? I'll even add "please"? Then the hand-shaking finale and off into the sunset with a couple of cool ones, a Bible, a stack of old comics and some Beach Boys CD's?

Thanks for your words, Sebastian, Artie and Joel.

That's trying to get someone to be as clear as possible about the point they are making.

This might also be an example:

Charles, have you ever admitted you were wrong about anything?

Agreed, Ian.  I've never attempted to prove I'm the "better person"-- I'm not-- but I have no wish to continually fight an endless fight with you or anyone else. 

Yes-- as an example, since we've chosen to invoke the name of Laurie, I admitted I was too harsh with her.  I let my anger over her actions overshadow the point I was making. 

Never that I've seen. Ian seems to have replaced Mikie (regular on Susan's board) at the head of Chuck's list of people to f*** with and provoke.
I've always thought he seemed like a guy who COULD be cool and open if he wanted, which is why I didn't like to see him bashed and ostracized when the last harassment drama was playing out. He just doesn't seem to want.

As much as I hate to even talk about that incident. I think that your quote above illustrates the problem.  "Her actions" were the problem?  You were only making a point?

Anyway, I can let this drop now.  God Bless You!! 

Collector's Item.

How about admitting you are wrong without finding a way to make someone else look wrong?  This is more of "I reacted wrongly when someone else hurt me."  You could have stopped at sentence one without adding sentence two to get a jab in.

Okay, I was wrong to run a stop sign when I was 20 years old.  I caused an accident that injured people.  It was entirely my fault.

I have faults, Chuck has faults. We are who we are.
This fight is over, as far as I am concerned. Until the next one!  :angel:


(http://www.cnra.net/media/handshake.jpg)

I said this many months ago-- it just goes against the desired perception, so it was usually ignored.

Ian-- AGREED.  Nothing but good will till the next battle starts, and even then, I mean no hard feelings.

And since this is my thread I am locking it now before anyone else starts anything....

Even though it is locked, I was at work and missed all of this, and there some things I need to say.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again...Guys, gals, trannies, farm animals, whomever...if you feel there is a problem here with one of the members, PLEASE pm me or one of the other mods before flying off the handle. Now if someone attacks you, feel free to respond and stand up for yourself, but please let us know first. Let me know what the deal is, and I'll deal with it promptly. If for some reason you would rather not use PMs, email me at fear2stop@yahoo.com  I do *not* play favorites, and I'll call things the way the way I see them. Always have, always will.

I think there is actually some good that has come out of all this. Special thanks goes to Jeff for being the most level-headed out of EVERYONE lately. I cannot stress that enough.

And with that, it's over...

Please don't. Just let a moderator know, and they'll take care of it.

Thanks

Yeah, that's probably for the best.