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YouTube video:  http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE (http://youtu.be/lKLX2DsltaE)

Most fans know or have heard about John and Paul appearing on The Tonight Show in May 1968, on a Tuesday night when Johnny Carson was not there and was replaced by guest host Joe Garagiola. This broadcast at the time got very high ratings for an off-night, late-night broadcast, and unfortunately no complete video or film/kinescope exists or has been discovered as of 2014.

This took place within a month of John and George leaving India and their studies with the Maharishi. What struck me was how John and Paul discussed the Beach Boys tour with the Maharishi which in the previous week (May 68) had collapsed, and added that they had advised against Maharishi doing the tour. I had listened to various cuts of this interview before, but was surprised when listening again this past year how they brought up the Beach Boys, and how it seemed to be a topic of conversation (and laughter) that the tour had fallen apart. In this clip they also discuss their changing look and music, and how it lost some fans while gaining others, and this reminded me too of the Beach Boys dealing with the same issues in 1966 and 1967, specifically the concerns over the Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations releases "alienating" some of their fans, and their old sounds versus the new.

There are other issues mentioned here and there, but I wanted to clip just those four minutes or so of them talking about the BB's and the Maharishi. There have been other audio recordings of this appearance made available, but this one specifically, you may notice, is in much better quality and the interview itself is much more clear and audible. This was taken from a somewhat recent discovery from a source who knew enough about audio tech to run audio outputs direct from a television set and into a reel-to-reel recorder, which is as close to a direct feed of the broadcast as would be available in someone's home. And also, if interested, there have been edits made of this and other home recordings of the show which help fill in some of the previously missing portions of those earlier home recordings, to present a more complete document.

Posted for those like me who either forgot or were not aware that the Beach Boys were a topic of conversation when John and Paul appeared on The Tonight Show in 1968.  :)

This is fascinating, and thanks guitarfool for posting. What struck me when thinking again about what a strange, ill-advised idea it was to bring The Maharishi along on the tour was how, whatever good intentions (such as changing peoples' worldview, etc) may at some level have been behind being The Maharishi on the tour, it just sort of seemed to transparently reek of the band saying "hey, look at this famous, cool person we know who we are going to parade around with on tour".

At the time in 1968, at their lowest popular ebb, it probably seemed like a bit of an obvious attempt by the BBs to ride his coattails a bit (not entirely different from Stamos 20 years later), and maybe John and Paul could sense that too, when laughing about the BBs' debacle.

I wonder how the whole tour came about. Was it entirely Mike's idea? Was it down to a group BB vote? Did any BBs object?

http://www.goldminemag.com/article/sudden-ending-on-the-road-with-the-beach-boys-in-1968

is an article by David Beard from 2010 about the Maharishi tour. It has a list of dates for the tour - including cancelled ones - but there are some questions about the list. Beard says that on May 19, the BBs/Maharishi appearance in Vegas was to be at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas (UNLV).

But in its May 18 '68 issue (which would have come out around May 11), Billboard magazine said the band and the Maharishi would be performing that day at the Flamingo Hotel's convention center.

What I've wondered about, for quite a while, was whether the band's appearance on the Merv Griffin show on May 17 would have featured the Maharishi had the tour been completed.  Come to think of it - that performance still hasn't surfaced, has it? But it should still exist.  Merv owned and kept all the videotapes of his show, though only part of them have shown up on DVD or Youtube so far.

Interesting thing about the tour with the Maharishi - the opening date was at the Washington Coliseum, site of the first US Beatles concert (and also where Dylan was playing when the photo of him on the cover of his first Greatest Hits album was taken).

Before getting more into the Maharishi details, I read that link to David Beard's 2010 Goldmine piece, and something jumped out:

Mike Love: “I flew back and (I think) the day before the tour opened we were sitting in Nashville and Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated in Memphis. Almost immediately more than half the shows were cancelled, because a lot of those cities were burning and the National Guard came out. We lost a lot of money. I was thinking to myself, ‘Had I stayed in India we would have rearranged the tour and not been right in the middle of that thing.’"

Andrew, recently you said this in the Pickle Brothers thread, about that April '68 tour:

Wouldn't Mike's comments via the David Beard article suggest the April '68 tour was a financial bust as well, despite the shows being rescheduled? It sounds like despite those shows which did get rescheduled and played later in April, the band still lost money, and Mike's words seem to agree with Grillo's, especially since this tour was self-financed. And of course they totally took a bath on the Maharishi tour in May.

There are some conflicting dates and venues that were listed in various magazines and Keith Badman's book had some errors about those venues.   I tried to correct the info about the canceled shows but a few errors still crept in.  As you probably know I compiled all the gigs info at the Bellagio site and Beard copies his dates from us.  So….it isn't his fault but yours truly.  In my book with Jon you will see that an error crept in there too.  One of the canceled shows is listed on May 11 as Richfield Coliseum but should be Cleveland Arena.  But Billboard article about a May 11 Las Vegas show is wrong-it was changed

I mean that the Vegas show and all the other shows after May 6 did not happen

I'm no researcher, obviously, but I do remember Nick Grillo describing the tour during the MLK assassination and the Maharishi Tour like they were two separately planned back-to-back entities.  This was in September or October of 1969 when it should have been fairly clear in his memory.  He took a group of us to dinner from the Ivar offices and told the story in a way that was truly hilarious.  A bad break for the BBs financially, but a funny story as he told it.

Nick Grillo seems like a fascinating character, anything memorable about the machinations of the Maharashi or our favorite fellas that he said that might have stuck in your mind that isn't legally actionable? Bwhahah!

Best not to comment...

Sadie was going to sue the BBs, or the other way around? 

It wasn't the BBs threatening to breach the contract.  Let me sum it up that way.  You'd have to ask Nick Grillo what - if anything - happened after that...

The April 1968 tour (the one that was impacted by the King assassination) and the Maharishi tour were two separate entities.

Most likely the saddest show I ever attended. Total  :shrug :shrug atmosphere throughout most of the show with scores of people just walking around with a WTF expression. I remember Carl doing a bangup job with Friends. Attendance was pathetic.

Isn't this tv interview in early 68? Or before the white album came out? Because they are talking about the next album improving upon Sgt Pepper? When was the Maharishi tour? Sounds like it was before this interview.
Also, I get the impression that they advised the Beach Boys not to tour with the Maharishi and not the other way around.

The Lennon McCartney interview was May 14, 1968. The April 1968 Beach Boys tour of the southern US ended with a rescheduled make-up concert played April 24. The Maharishi tour started May 3, was scheduled for the majority of May '68 with promotional TV appearances scheduled in the US as well, but all scheduled shows after that first week were cancelled. When I edited the video (hastily), I added print ads from shows the Maharishi actually did like the Singer Bowl/Iona dates, along with one in Boston that first week that was cancelled and one scheduled for the Hollywood Bowl May 19th that was also cancelled, to show the timeline of everything relative to John and Paul (and Joe Garagiola) discussing it May 14th on NBC.

The tour of the south April '68 and the Maharishi tour scheduled for May '68 were two separate tours, but there was only a week or so gap between them. There is a quote from Dennis in the Priess book where even he talked as if they overlapped, but they were obviously planned as different tours since one had the Maharishi and the other did not. According to Mike, the April tour cost them a lot of money due to the cancellations and rescheduling in wake of MLK, and the Maharishi tour was an unmitigated flop. The Beach Boys/Brother organization fronted the money for the April '68 tour. Mike left India in order to return to the US to do the April tour, and within the next weeks the Maharishi also "lost" John, George, and their entourage for less friendly ways as described in numerous Beatles books.


The "next album" John is talking about would become The White Album, but in the second week of May '68 there was nothing planned out beyond having notebooks and papers filled with new tunes they had worked up in India. At this point I don't believe this new batch of material had even been demo'ed at Esher or elsewhere, but I could be wrong. As soon as John and George got back, the plans for Apple were in full gear, and promoting Apple was the reason for the trip to New York that found them on The Tonight Show that Tuesday evening, May 14th after doing a round of press events and interviews.

It sounds more like John and Paul are saying they didn't think the Beach Boys should have invited the Maharishi, not the other way around. They had become disillusioned with the Maharishi, if not meditation (as they describe here) after going to India. I don't think they were mocking the Beach Boys, other than saying they made a bad decision to bring the Maharishi.

The laughter actually comes unprompted from the audience, both times when they mention how the tour had "folded", so that was the audience finding it funny more than anyone on the panel going for a laugh line. If that is the reaction, and if Garagiola was the one who raised the topic, the collapse and failure of that tour after a week's run must have been in people's minds, and if the crowd reacted by laughing, I have to think it was the object of some public ridicule to have such a project collapse as this tour did after a few shows.

Here is what Paul said to Joe Garagiola:

PAUL: "We tried to persuade him against that, you know.
JG: "To go out?"
PAUL: "Yeah. I thought it was a terrible idea."

They tried to persuade *him*, the Maharishi, not to go out on that tour with the Beach Boys. As you said, John and Paul say several times in several different ways that they don't have an issue with meditation and actually encourage more to do it, but the way the Maharishi was going out on tour and being billed and treated like a rock star was one of the issues they had with him. That's perfectly clear in the 4 minute clip.

This is part of a bigger issue with more background than I've had time in the past day to cover, but there was more to it than Mike or the Beach Boys in general simply inviting the Maharishi on tour or the Maharishi asking the Beach Boys to tour with (and for...) him and his bigger goals.

One word: money. (more on that to come...)

And take a look at the video again, those advertisements I included there bill the Maharishi as "The GURU" on both the Singer Bowl/Iona and the Boston ads, as if he was some kind of a rock star on the bill, and I put those in specifically because I think that was part of what John and Paul were hinting at in the interview: That what they thought they were getting in terms of spirituality and simplicity and reconnecting and all of that was the same type of corporate and rock and roll hype and rock star treatment which they themselves had gone to India to get away from.

What they found in India was a variation on the same theme they thought they were getting away from, and this tour was one element of that.

Thanks for posting the video guitarfool. Just when I thought I'd heard/seen almost every Beatles interview ...

This makes it seem that the BBs convinced Sadie to tour with them; isn't it more likely that Sadie used his spiritual prowess to bend their minds into thinking they wanted to invite him? He obviously wanted a cash infusion...
 I see your references to John and Paul and $$, but I don't see anything that doesn't lend to the BBs being the sole force behind the thoughts

One thing to point out is that the planned April tour was limited to the southeastern United States; the tour in May had no scheduled Southern dates but would have covered the rest of the country.

Thanks for posting this interview, GF.  One thing I find really interesting is the fact that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi gets top billing over the Beach Boys.  Wonder if that was a stipulation of his.  The BB's popularity in the US was in decline at that time, but having Maharishi as the top billed "entertainer" had to have put a damper on ticket sales.

Interesting thing to me is that garagiola actually did a good job. Lennon later made it sound like this was the most embarrassing appearance he ever made on tv. But it really isn't that bad at all

That's a good point, I think it has gotten a worse rap than it deserved after you hear it. I think part of the blame too is any number of Beatles histories which have described it probably more on the things they had heard about it versus actually hearing it, and Garagiola was definitely not as bad as some have reported. Example, I've read accounts that suggested Garagiola was either dumbfounded, starstruck, or simply didn't know enough about the band to connect with them, but when you hear it he's not really any of those things, and talks some specifics with them. What I will say is that Tallulah Bankhead's role is something I don't quite understand as someone who is a fan of the Carson show: She was sitting at Johnny's desk next to Joe and acting almost like a co-host, which Johnny as far as I know rarely if ever did as part of the show's format from the 60's up to 1992 (except sidekick Ed McMahon), yet Tallulah actually steps over some of the questions and answers during this appearance. I don't know what they were thinking when they had her there, but again it's not all that bad but just a little distracting. Especially considering who the guests were.

One backstory that also didn't get into the Beatle histories too often: John and Paul truly did not know who Garagiola was, how would they since they didn't know American baseball nor did they have much access to American television via morning shows and the like? They were disappointed that Carson was absent, obviously they knew him and his reputation and his show was one of the most buzzworthy on US television at that time. So one of the show's younger producers was assigned to do a backstage pre-interview with them before the show, and apparently this producer hit it off with the two Beatles, and they connected without knowing who this guy was. Before going on, they supposedly asked if this young producer could interview them instead, or if he would be interviewing them, because again they had no clue who Joe Garagiola was!

And the other part that for some reason gets under-reported is that the episode got massive ratings, and even in mid-68 there were elements of "Beatlemania" chaos outside and inside NBC studios with fans trying to get to the two Beatles. It's important because some histories suggest this kind of Beatlemania was passe by 1968, but the screaming fans were still there for this appearance.

There was definitely Beatlemania still evident, even when George was in Paris sometime in 1970 for a non-music event that he was simply attending, he was instantly mobbed and became the center of attention.  Much to his dismay of course.

What is funny is that Johnny Carson was undoubtedly told that his staff had managed to book John and Paul-surely the biggest guests you could get on your show in 1968 and he refused to break his plans to be there for the appearance! I liked Johnny but it illustrates why many rock and rollers felt it was a really square show-Johnny could care less.  Neil Young refused to appear on the show with Buffalo Springfield in 67 because he felt it was a square show.

I wanted to touch on the "money" issue a bit, related to some of what was going on with the Maharishi at this time, and possibly related (or not) to the Beach Boys tour, film projects, and other interests. I'll try to keep it brief (well, that usually fails miserably)   ;)   although a book chapter or two could be written about some of these things.

I'm going to suggest quite a bit of the events in 1968 centered around money, plain and simple, and possibly larger goals for the Maharishi and the TM organization he was leading. Without covering every detail, consider these and see if there are connections which can be made to possibly shed more light on the how's and why's of some of these events in '68.

- The Beatles. In 1967 they had also "discovered" the Maharishi through one of his lectures, which they attended and after which they began publicly touting and appearing at other TM-related events. This, as we know, was to culminate in them spending a three-month retreat in India at the Maharishi's TM compound, originally scheduled from Feb 3 1968 to April 25 1968 (keep in mind the last date scheduled for the Beach Boys April '68 tour was a make-up show on April 24).

As the press even in '67 picked up on the Beatles and other assorted celebrities and musicians following the Maharishi and his lecture events, naturally a lot of attention got focused on the Maharishi and TM in general. What I don't think the Beatles realized going into the deal was that the Maharishi was as much the head of a large corporation-like business and media structure as he was a simple religious man, and toward his goal of spreading the word of TM he had in place a structure of marketing, publicity, business, and multimedia designed to promote his message.

Among those pursuits was a film project which the Maharishi had in the works, and which as 1967 rolled into 1968 he was actively shopping and negotiating to have it shown. The Beatles were in the formative planning stages of Apple Corps, and among the ventures through Apple there was to be an Apple Films division. There were reports that the Maharishi had various plans to try to get Apple Films on board as a backer for his film project.

Note: Keep in mind the Beach Boys also had plans as early as fall 1966 to have a films division of Brother Records as that corporate structure was being plotted out.

So the Maharishi and his various marketers, accountants, and negotiators were trying to shop this unfinished TM film project to media outlets. They were in talks with ABC in America to broadcast the film when it was completed, and it was being "sold" to ABC using the celebrity factor. The Maharishi sales team was all but promising ABC that The Beatles would be appearing in this film, along with possibly other celebrity TM followers, but the Beatles were the big draw, the carrot at the end of the stick.

However, the Beatles themselves had never agreed to appear in or endorse a TM film project. They sent Peter Brown, one of Apple's business execs, to meet with the Maharishi and explain that he had to stop promising a Beatle appearance in his film, and to stop using the Beatles in general to promote or sell anything he was shopping around. According to Brown, the Maharishi basically giggled and Brown left thinking it was a done deal.

Soon after, the Apple offices apparently were contacted again by ABC in the US asking for confirmation that the Beatles would be part of this TM film project they were negotiating to buy and broadcast. The sh*t hit the fan, and Brown actually traveled to one of the Maharishi's events with George and Paul with him to tell the Maharishi to stop using their name to plug a project.

Then they travel to India, planned to last Feb 3 1968 to April 25 1968. The details of that are available many places, but one point to consider is that when they arrived, they were surprised to see the Maharishi's compound looking more like a modern business office complex than a traditional, simple meditation ashram. There was a heliport, modern offices, and various plans surrounding a film/TV studio, multimedia projects, etc. And there were various men around the Maharishi who were basically the corporate officers...negotiators, accountants, multimedia and PR staff, etc.

- Side note: My comments above on this as well as John and Paul's words on the Tonight Show were directed to this element. The Beatles very openly wanted to "escape" the celebrity scene and the corporate dealings with Apple and EMI and whatnot, and the place which promised an escape turned out to be not unlike EMI or Apple. They escaped into the same scene, basically, which they were escaping from.

So there is the ABC television situation which the Beatles vetoed strongly, but there is still a TM film project being shopped around and which Apple was hoped to be a financial backer of, through the planned Apple Films division.

And beyond that, a bigger issue. The exact details are scattered around and are not specific point-by-point, but several sources report that a deal was at least on the table which would have The Beatles pledging a sum of their income which depending on the source ranged from 10 percent to 25 percent of their yearly income as The Beatles into a Swiss bank account controlled by the Maharishi and his corporate interests.

10 to 25 percent of the Beatles yearly income in 1968 was a massive sum of money. This point was also one of the tipping points in the Beatles breaking away from the Maharishi once this information got out among their associates. No way would they be pledging that kind of money to the Maharishi or TM. That fell through, as did the India trip in general.

Enter the Beach Boys. They still had in early '68 a cache, industry clout, and were one of the most successful bands in the US up to that point. They also had a fledgling corporate structure which was a precursor to Apple, which had plans on the books for a Brother Films division of the company. Brother Films...Apple Films...see the possible connection.

Obviously we know Mike dove headfirst into the study of TM, and agreed to spend a few weeks in India studying alongside the Beatles and the other celebrities present for that session. He would leave early to be in the US for the planned April '68 tour, as mentioned above. The session in India, again, was to last Feb 3 to April 25...was that a coincidence that the session in India was originally scheduled to end within a day of the Beach Boys April tour of the South ending? Then the next week, the Maharishi would be hitting the road with the Beach Boys as "The GURU" on the tour in May '68.

Assuming the TM film deal concerning The Beatles was off the table, consider some information that came from Nick Grillo. Mike wanted an advance or a loan through the BB's structure to fund a film about the Maharishi and TM, looking to draw money from future royalty payments on their recordings and possibly other sources as collateral. That was not successful, even to the point where Mike sent a letter to the head of Capitol Records demanding such a loan to fund this film project. Again, it did not happen, and according to Grillo the news was not received graciously by Mike. Then the May '68 tour debacle, which cost the band a load of money and made news for being a flop.

Summing it up: There was the Maharishi using the Beatles celebrity power as leverage to broker a deal for his planned film on TM. He wanted to strike a deal with Apple Films to back, promote, and produce a TM film. He was also banking on celebrities as famous worldwide as the Beatles to advertise and promote himself and his ventures, lectures, film, multimedia, etc. He also was banking on a deal which would have The Beatles giving him a percentage of their annual revenue into his Swiss bank account, again at a sum rumored between 10% and 25% of their income. That all literally fell apart the day John and George left the ashram in India in April 1968.

Now put the Beach Boys into the equation. They had some plans for a film division at Brother dating back to fall 1966...could the TM film find some backing there? Nick Grillo says Mike specifically requested funding for a TM film, which was denied both through Brother and despite a request made directly to the head of Capitol for a loan based on future royalty income. The Maharishi was looking for a "vehicle" through celebrities and what seemed to be famous rock musicians to promote his ventures and TM in general. He had the Beatles on board for a period of time, his exposure and business exploded into the media. People knew who he was, if the Beatles are into this, the fans would check it out too.

The Beatles connection collapsed...but here was a Beach Boys opportunity. One member is interested in funding a film project, the band has a corporate structure being developed, they have income through sales and royalties, and most of all related to 1968...

...They had plans to go on tour with the Maharishi. Did the Maharishi know that the BB's popularity was starting to "wane", or that their sales were not what they were in previous years? They still had some clout, they were still touring, and here was a chance to tour with a rock band in America and reach those concert-going young fans with the TM message and lectures. Not to mention whatever business deals, contract guarantees, and the like were signed ahead of time.

Consider the Maharishi was in it for the money as much as any band agrees to a concert tour with the ultimate goal being to make a profit for their work. I think the feelings were mutual, the Maharishi had but lost the Beatles as his main champions and promotional trump cards, but he also had a band who was the most successful in the US up to that point willing to offer a headline spot on a tour, ready to promote his messages and methods, and potentially willing to help bankroll a film project which the Beatles had backed out of.

Mutual benefit, at least on paper. Parallel between The Beatles and The Beach Boys regarding what the visibility and success of those bands could offer the Maharishi and his goals related to spreading the word of TM across the globe. Something to consider.

Really interesting background and analysis, GF.  I had no idea that Maharishi had such a well developed commercial organization and PR team in place prior to the Beatles trip to India.  Like most people around then, I'd never heard of Maharishi or ™ until the Beatles, along with Mike, etc went to India.  (Can't get my spell checker to refrain from changing the letters "™" to the trademark symbol ™!)

Man, I'd love to hear a concert recording of one of Maharishi's lectures prior to the BBs performance.  Approximately how long did he speak?  Did Mike meet any resistance selling this concept to the other guys?  Did anyone realize ahead of time that a lecture from an Indian guru with a high pitched, difficult to understand voice really made no sense coupled with a rock n roll concert?  And if it actually did take place, that the lecture should last about three minutes, max, prior to the BBs appearing?  And I'd still like to know why Maharishi received top billing, as well as the percentage of the proceeds he was to receive.

Fantastic post/thread!

THIS is why I love this board so much :)

All things considered, that tour is one I really would have loved to have seen ....... For some reason, the Friends/white suit era is a fave of mine.

Dennis Wilson seemed to support it in an interview in 1974

If you look in my book under the December 15 1967 unicef show listing you will see that I have interviews with Carl, al, Dennis and mike expressing how impressed they all initially were by Maharishi. Only Bruce never got into it.  The Wilsons all meditated for awhile but didn't have the discipline of mike and al

Just reread that page, Ian.  Yes, the BBs talk about how impressed they are with the Maharishi and TM back in late 1967.  I'm still curious, though, if all the guys (or all of 'em except Bruce) felt a tour with Maharishi as their opening act (speaking for what? 30 minutes non-stop or longer?) was a good idea.  Also wonder if they knew ahead of time that the advertising posters would give the Maharishi top billing.

Magic Transistor Radio - Do you recall the source of that 1974 interview?  Did Dennis basically say he supported the idea of Maharishi touring with the BBs back in 1968?

well…I recall that in Billy Hinsche's 74 tour documentary-Dennis is discussing meditation on the plane with Al Jardine.  Perhaps that is the reference-I haven't watched it in a while, so can't recall what he says.

I'm guessing that in a corporation of 4 or 5 members (not sure of Al's actual status in the corporation at the time) more than one of them had to think it was a good idea.

IIRC Dennis was praising EST while Alan was talking about TM in that scene.

According to Henry Lewy and his wife Brian had been some sort of certified TM instructor since late 66 with a ceremony and certificate and everything.

Makes sense since Brian mentioned in a 1968 interview that he'd previously been introduced to tm but than had forgotten about it till the bbs took him to nyc in January 1968 to meet Maharishi

I think there are some pieces of information getting mixed up or misstated here regarding Henry Lewy, Brian, and meditation. This is taken from Michael Vosse's fall 1966 Teen Set article on Brian:

A long and arduous session is underway at Western. A brief break is called and as the musicians file out for coffee, Brian huddles in a corner talking to engineer Henry Lewy who is on a break from Association's session down the hall. In a few weeks Henry will leave for India for six months of study under a great religious teacher. Brian has been attending discussion classes at Henry's house.

"Meditation is an important part of my life now. It is a great source of peace and energy." Brian has recently built a meditation tent filling a whole room of his large house. The tent is an oval with a puffed ceiling all made from a beautiful red and gold Indian print fabric.

Henry and his wife Nadine were in fact followers of TM and the Maharishi and would hold discussion groups in their home, as Vosse described. But how does Brian attending discussion classes at Lewy's house turn into Brian becoming a certified TM instructor complete with a ceremony? Brian was also interested in Subud at the same time, and one gossip-column blurb at the time even mentioned him working on Subud prayer music, and the article notably mis-spelled Subud and called the group "the Subdubs".

Keep in mind as well that in 1966 and 1967 there are published reports of Brian entertaining and investigating any number of spiritual pursuits, philosophies, and religions, among them astrology, numerology, the I Ching, the Christian Bible, the Bhaghavad Gita, the Tibetan Book of The Dead, Zen Buddhism, Subud, various Eastern forms mysticism and philosophical writings, various Western forms of mysticism and philosophy, and the more traditional method of he and Carl holding prayer sessions before recording songs like God Only Knows. Not unlike any number of college-age or early-20's guys in 1966 exploring many different forms of philosophy/spirituality and their practices seeking enlightenment.

If Brian Wilson had attended a discussion on meditation at fellow producer Lewy's house, it would be in line with any number of lectures and discussions or gatherings he may have attended that focused on any of the areas mentioned above, but that's a whole different scene than saying he was qualified to teach any of those things.

I guess I'm asking two things:

Objectively to Cam, what is the source of Henry Lewy thinking Brian got certified as a TM instructor with ceremony in 1966?

Subjectively, does it make sense logically if Brian in 1966 had learned and studied TM to such a degree that he was certified to teach others the practices and methods, that he would only have gotten his own "eye-may-mah" personal mantra in January 1968 when he and the band flew to New York to attend a lecture? I'd suggest a follower of any spiritual or religious practice would receive one of the key elements of that spiritual practice and ritual, especially if he/she were a certified instructor, well before they were certified to teach others. So your meditation teacher tells you to meditate and repeat a personal and private mantra, and that teacher himself hasn't received one of his own and won't for over a year? That doesn't make sense. Or maybe it does and I'm just too logical sometimes.  :)

It was told to me on the phone by Henry Lewy and his wife. I used to actually talk to people and I took notes but I can't promise I'll find them. I remember Marilyn took the classes at the Lewy's home too and the Lewys told me where the "graduation" took place. It was like a downtown LA auditorium or civic center. I'll see what I can find.

A little disjointed and repetitive but here is what I could find so far:

Nadine Lewy conducted TM [may have been called Deep Meditation instead of TM at that time] introductory lectures in their home in Laurel Canyon. In the Fall of 1966, at Henry’s invitation, all 6 Beach Boys attend the first of seven lectures. Only Brian and Marilyn returned for the remaining six lectures. There were 7 introductory lectures required at the time, Nadine held the remaining 6 classes mostly for BW/MW. Following the introductory lectures was one personal interview, followed by one personal instruction session, followed by three sessions on consecutive days of verification and validation. The lectures and sessions were held 1 or 2 a week and were completed in about 6 to 10 weeks.
Nadine thinks she remembers Brian bringing non-Beach Boys to a few lectures, the Maharishi encouraged classes for no less than 5 students, so BW would invite friends and associates and their partners making classes of 5 to 12 students usually. She had the impression that Brian “had many influences around him at the time”. She remembers Brian as very interested, participating in lectures, a good student and very sweet.

At the end of the lectures and sessions [6 to 10 weeks], Brian and Marilyn were given instruction and initiated into TM. Brian and Marilyn were instructed at a meeting hall which catered to ballet and vocal lessons on 6th St. between Western and Vermont, probably on a Saturday possibly by an elderly lady by the name of Buelah Smith (she has since died). Ms. Smith would drive up from San Diego on Saturdays to give instruction to initiates. After instruction no further lessons are taken and initiate is on his own with only an occasional visit from an instructor to “check up”.
Nadine remembers that at the Wilson’s initiation, another elderly lady was helping with flowers etc. and while the Wilson’s were waiting the lady made small talk about “good vibrations”. Nadine believes this lady was not familiar with the record or even with who Brian was, it was just a random comment. However Brian seemed “flustered” by the coincidence. [Nadine Lewy 12/1/98]

Henry Lewy and Brian and the Beach Boys were acquaintances through sessions at Western where he was an engineer. The Boys had asked Henry how he was able to handle everything he had to do so well. He told them he was practicing TM. They were interested. Henry had invited the Beach Boys to his wife’s Transcendental Meditation classes at their home. He does not remember when that was except it was 1966, but Henry associated his invitation with Brian playing him an tape of unfinished Good Vibrations (with Theremin). All the Beach Boys attended the first class but only Brian and Marilyn continued to attend. Henry and his wife left for their study with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in India in Jan. ’67. Henry and Nadine left for India in early January 1967 arriving in India on the 9th or 10th. After India they continued on an around the world trek returning in June ’67. A few days after their return, Herb Alpert hired Henry away from Western to work at A&M Records. [Henry Lewy 12/1/98]

Later Henry and wife were also in attendance with the Beatles and Beach Boys at the Dec. 15 ’67 encounter with the Maharishi in Paris. [Henry Lewy 11/11/98]

Nadine Lewy remembers tagging along on one of Brian and Marilyn’s check ups at their home on Bellagio Rd. in BelAir. [Nadine Lewy 12/1/98]

I also found related notes regarding TM.

Tony Asher told me that regarding TM “I didn't discuss the subject more than once or twice, briefly, with Brian. Perhaps more with Loren, but not particularly at his parties.”  [11/12/98]

Also VDP told me “I met Henry Lewy (the engineer) many times. I liked him alot---always cheerful and encouraging everyone. They don't get nicer. I never met Nadine, I don't believe.” [1/9/99] I guess maybe he was not one who attended Nadine's lectures.

I haven’t found it yet but my memory is Nadine said the Wilsons were then lecturer/instructors who would give lessons in their home and that was why there were the home check ups she mentioned. I don’t know that much about TM’s practices of that time.

I wanted to address and discuss these latest posts in two parts, please bear with me and hopefully some new or at least interesting information will come out of it...  ;)

First, a big thanks to Cam for finding and posting those notes from your previous conversations and exchanges with Henry and Nadine Lewy about TM. Very interesting, very good reading and information. Much appreciated.  :)

That is the first part of the two I want to address and add to, the next will be the connections with Subud.

What the Lewys were describing was some of the earlier attempts to spread the word of TM in the USA, and that older lady mentioned by Mrs. Lewy, Beulah Smith, was indeed listed as the first certified "teacher" or instructor of TM in the United States. She had learned the program, and would be hired to teach it to other interested people. Based in California, she would travel to various locations, usually rented hotels, halls, rooms, etc, to teach the TM courses in a very specific way.

That is an important thing to note: TM was set up as a very specific and structured course, which was to be taught and learned in a very controlled way. The instructors who were certified were given very specific, almost step-by-step instructions on how the program was to be taught and presented, from individual "lessons" to bigger lectures and introductions via seminars and speeches.

Think of it like any training program in any field: Everything from sales training, to the Bob Ross method of oil painting, to owning a fast-food franchise. The students are presented with a very controlled and detailed course of instruction, created so the results were the same no matter which instructor was teaching the course.

Beulah Smith was the first in the US, certified to be a "teacher", as mentioned. But as interest started to spread, there was a need for more outlets and a greater reach. There was specific interest in and around Los Angeles, specifically on campuses like UCLA and Berkeley, which led directly to the formation of the "Students International Meditation Society", or SIMS, a higher-profile version of the International Meditation Society.

These are perhaps the names which would have been more recognizable to someone interested in 1965 or 1966, as these were the places you would contact or visit if you were interested in the Maharishi or Transcendental Meditation, or if you had heard about them. I think more folks may have known the SIMS offshoots via college campuses rather than knowing it by TM, which would become more well-known in late '67 with media and celebrity connections and interest.

***Important to note. There are reports that the Students International Meditation Society kept very detailed and careful records on who was signing up for the courses as well as who was being "certified" to act as instructors starting in 1965, when Beulah and a few others were spreading out to college campuses through SIMS. I mention this because it stands to reason, as a pretty big possibility (and I bold this) that if Brian and Marilyn Wilson were studying and being certified through one of these channels as early as 1966, there were and are written records of it which probably still exist and could be accessed today. Interesting, right? It would definitely be proof either way of whatever we're discussing.

Now I'd like to add on a few details about those early days of TM, the Maharishi, and everything leading up to what the Lewys told Cam about 1966, Mike Love and the Beatles traveling to an ashram in India, and the whole ball of wax.

The Maharishi made some important connections through very wealthy benefactors and celebrities who could get him and his message into Hollywood circles in the late 50's and early 60's, when he first began his quest as a developed and scripted "methodology" of teaching his type of meditation techniques in a formalized way.

One of his benefactors was a woman once called "the wealthiest woman in the world", a tobacco heiress named Doris Duke. Doris Duke was a media figure, a wealthy giver to many causes, basically one of those mega-millionaire figures like a modern Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, or Richard Branson who made headlines doing any number of activities and attending events.

Doris Duke had given the Maharishi a gift by funding the construction of his ashram and compound in India. This was the same compound which Mike Love, The Beatles, and friends traveled to in Feb. 1968, the one that struck several Beatles as more modern (complete with helicopter port and broadcast facilities) than they had assumed it would be. So all of those photos and film of them in India was taken at the compound funded by tobacco heiress Doris Duke.

Further...factor in a woman named Nancy Cooke de Herrera. Another socialite, known to the media and whatnot, it was Nancy Cooke who had apparently introduced Doris Duke to the Maharishi, which led to the funding of the ashram. Nancy Cooke was the woman who acted as the Beatles' personal guide and almost like a valet in some cases when they arrived in India, showing them around and taking care of various arrangements.

Nancy Cooke was there with her son, Richard Cooke III, who was called Rik and was then attending college. It was Rik and his mother's excursion that led to a tiger being shot on a hunt that was the foundation of John Lennon's song "The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill" ('went out tiger hunting with his elephant and gun, in case of accident he'd always take his mum'...that was Nancy and Rik Cooke at the ashram in India). Nancy Cooke in a recent memoir called "All You Need Is Love" talks all about this era, as well as Richard having a blog where he mentions it too, as he is a photographer of note. Apparently Lennon was the one who didn't hit it off too well with the Cookes in India.

This is a photo of Nancy Cooke de Herrera (second from left) with the Beatles and Donovan in India:
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m47mnxH3b71qhnkvco1_1280.jpg)

And this is a direct link to Richard "Rik" Cooke III's blog post about that specific tiger hunt, complete with photo:
http://www.thealohabear.com/bungalow-bill-the-real-story/ (http://www.thealohabear.com/bungalow-bill-the-real-story/)

And here is the photo of Rik after the tiger hunt immortalized by Lennon, if his blog allows remote image links:
(http://www.thealohabear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/rac-tiger-avi-kohli.jpg)


So factoring in the Lewys, go back the very early exposure of the Maharishi through socialite Nancy Cooke de Herrera, who connected him and TM to the tobacco heiress Doris Duke who funded his ashram where Mike and the Beatles studied in 1968, then factor in Duke, Cooke, and Hollywood figures like Efrem Zimbalist Jr. in the early 60's...they spread the word of Maharishi and connected interested followers to the instructor Beulah Smith, who had trained the Lewys as instructors, and this leads to the Students International Meditation Society showing up on the UC Berkeley campus sometime around 1965, and reached into UCLA as well, then into downtown LA where rooms and halls were rented to Beulah's instructors who would do the training.

If it reached out to Brian and Marilyn Wilson as early as 1966, based on that bit of info I listed above, there would be a record of it which if the record keeping had been as detailed and meticulous as described, someone would be able to go beyond the words of the Lewys and actually see the Wilsons (and the Beach Boys) names in a ledger somewhere, maintained by SIMS or an offshoot.

But the next part of my post will touch on another spiritual pursuit of Brian's at this same time which leads to questions about what exactly was happening specific to 1966 and who was involved.

And I'd also suggest, again subjectively, that it seems like a direct conflict of memories to have the Lewy version of events saying the Beach Boys had attended a meditation session with Brian and Marilyn as early as 1966, and had a brother who was grandfathered into the practice by the Lewys and Beulah Smith, yet almost *every* report from the Beach Boys themselves seems to suggest the first exposure they had to TM was when they saw the Maharishi in Paris while doing shows there in 1967, then taking Brian to meet him in New York.

If their own brother and de facto "leader" of the group was a certified TM follower since 1966, why did each of them seem to suggest they didn't learn of it until that Maharishi lecture later in '67? Did they all forget?

What are the Boys' quotes about meeting the Maha and TM?

I have no idea about the presumed contradictions but according to my notes Nadine pointed out that TM may have been known by another name at the time of the Wilson's initiation so that's a possibility maybe. Also was there always such a cult of personality around the Maha like there was in '68 or were thousands initiated in the mid-60s without knowing much or anything about him?

Nadine was saying the Wilsons were verified and validated so I suggest you pursue those records you mention to verify or not the Lewys memory of the Wilson's initiation.

I don't understand what you mean by "grandfathered in" in that context.

Transcendental Meditation was the name for the methods either developed or practiced by the Maharishi as early as the 1950's when he first started becoming known for the practice. No matter what the actual courses were called or what groups like SIMS were offering on campuses like Berkeley in the mid 60's, the methodology being taught by those certified instructors like Beulah Smith and the Lewys was still called Transcendental Meditation, and the Maharishi was the key figure, the father in all that surrounded it. He was the #1, key figure and the most visible as well. And that was the case going back to the time when Doris Duke was introduced to him and gifted the money for him to build the ashram in India, which was to be the primary headquarters for teaching the Maharishi's methods of Transcendental Meditation. The teachers went through the process of becoming certified to teach and lecture to interested parties, but it all focused on what was started by the Maharishi.

As far as the "grandfathered" term, what I mean by that is first we have Nadine Lewy reporting that Brian, Marilyn, AND the other Beach Boys went to a session with her to learn or be introduced to TM. She reported that only Brian and Marilyn came back after that to finish the courses, which would suggest Brian would have had at least a working knowledge of the TM practices if the 1966 dates are correct since he had officially "graduated" with Marilyn.

Yet, and short of finding each and every quote specific to the Maharishi from the other Beach Boys, if you read any or every source of Beach Boys history going back to Byron Preiss, the quotes from any of the Beach Boys read as if they had just "discovered" TM when they heard the Maharishi lecture in Paris, including Mike and Dennis specifically. Again, check Preiss' book or any other BB's history for exact quotes.

What sticks out to me is most importantly, if they had a brother in Brian who had finished the course of study for practicing TM through the Lewys and Beulah Smith as early as 1966, and those same band members had gone with Brian to that session with the Lewys in 1966, why do their quotes not mention Brian's involvement with TM? Why do their quotes not mention that they had been to a TM session over a year before they saw the Maharishi lecture in late '67, and beyond that why do they act as if the first time they were introduced to TM was at that lecture?

I'm speculating and suggesting that if brother/cousin/bandmate Brian had been through a course study and had completed a course in TM which was marked by a ceremony, that those other band members would not have acted as if the Maharishi lecture in 1967 was the first time they had been exposed to TM, because according to Lewy they were there with Brian in 1966 and would have known he had gotten the ceremony after finishing the course they chose not to finish as he did.

It's just one part of the timeline and history which does not add up, considering Nadine specifically said the Beach Boys were there with Brian and Marilyn and were introduced to TM over a year before their comments later would suggest. Again, did all of them including Brian simply forget they had attended TM courses in 1966?

Was TM not also known as Deep Meditation and/or Spiritual Rejuvenation?

See if you can get those records that might settle the important part. Or maybe someone could ask Brian (on his Facebook?) if he remembers being instructed by the Lewys and initiated by Buelah Smith? Or he and the Boys attending the one lecture together at the Lewys?

Someone could also try asking Mike and Al on their Facebook if they remember attending the lecture at the Lewys.

If the Lewys were mistaken I'll still tip my hat to them for such an elaborate and detailed false memory.

Later: I found a few quotes about TM but they seem to be about meeting and being with the Maha not about not hearing of Meditation before Paris. I'll keep looking.

I've got to say, it seems quite likely given what we know about Brian in 1966 that he did attend TM classes. Did he graduate? I'll forgive the instructors if they decorate their memories a bit.

The rest of the stuff might not line up exactly, but I think it's kind of pointless to expect it to, especially after all this time. The rest of the guys may have attended a class, but not registered it as TM -- simply another one of Brian's weird things (of which there were many during this period).

And Brian himself has never been a particularly reliable narrator of his own life, in any era.

Cam, let me say first that I'm not trying to suggest anything about Nadine and Henry Lewy's memories of introducing TM to Brian and the Beach Boys, and if that was implied I wasn't trying to do that. I have no doubt as I've said in an earlier post here that Brian was exploring various outlets for spirituality, religion, and philosophy at this eact time (1966-67), and we have documented examples of that. What stood out for me, and I want to restate this, is that based on subsequent interviews through the years the impression given by band members suggests they were "introduced" to the TM practices in Paris in 1967 when they went to see the Maharishi. Is it the way they said it, is it the wording they used? I'm just trying to rectify or clarify that part of the timeline which doesn't seem to fit.

Again, if they had a brother and bandmate in Brian who had been introduced to TM through the Lewys and Beulah Smith as early as 1966, and according to Nadine the Beach Boys (whichever members) were there for at least one session, why do they speak as if their introduction was in Paris 1967? Nadine and Beulah were teaching and demonstrating the same methods as Maharishi would have shown the band members in Paris, so why act as if they were being introduced to it if Brian and Marilyn had been there and done that as early as 1966? If one or several other Beach Boys went along with Brian to meet the Lewys in 1966, that was their introduction to the practice, and I'm sure the others heard about it through their fellow bandmates.

Here are examples, print and video, to consider:

1980's Mike Love interview, skip to 3:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ318QInrUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ318QInrUg)

2011-ish Mike Love interview, skip to 5:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR4vHjR-CA#t=320 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR4vHjR-CA#t=320)

Here is a post from Mike on Facebook:
"Yesterday was the 30th Anniversary of my cousin, Dennis' sad passing. This date in December always brings to mind so many memories, good and not so good. For myself I prefer to remember the good and great times like fishing together off th...e Redondo Beach Breakwater, or racing his corvette and my XKE late night coming home from the Cinnamon Cinder after a show in Long Beach at over a hundred miles per hour. We shared an apartment together in Hermosa Beach were we had many a parties, in fact, there were parties in our apartment when we weren't even there! Dennis was a ball of energy! His powerful drumming back beat lives on till this day every night during our performances. The positive contributions Dennis made to group are to be honored and remembered. Not everyone knows this, but Dennis was the one who called me to come back to Paris from London to be taught Transcendental Meditation by Maharishi...in later years, even when he'd been drinking, when we found ourselves together, Dennis would often say "Hey Mike, Let's meditate" During my last few meditations, I have said extra prayers for Dennis, that his soul has found the happiness that eluded him while here on earth......Sail On Sailor.............ML"


Here is a quote from Al:
""We performed with all the greatest of stars in the world and… The Beatles and the maharishi were sitting in the front row and they were enjoying the concert. And then we learned transcendental meditation a few hours later with the maharishi and The Beatles. So it was kind of nice…"

Another from Mike:
"Yeah it is. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is the way he's known, he taught several of us transcendental meditation in December of 1967 when we were in Paris doing a UNICEF show which was broadcast all throughout Europe. It was a phenomenal show and at that show Maharishi was in the front row with George Harrison and John Lennon, and we got to hang out at an embassy party with Marlon Brando and so-on. And then we went to England and then we were called back to Paris because my cousin Dennis (Wilson) stayed in Paris and got in contact with the people with Maharishi and they invited us to come learn TM, which we were taught by Maharishi in Paris in December of 1967."

And another:
Q: As part of learning transcendental meditation, you travelled to India with the Beatles. What was that like?
Mike: "I learned TM from Maharishi in Paris in December of ’67, and then in February of ’68 I went over to India and the Beatles were there as well, and so was Donovan, and Mia Farrow was there for a little while. It was actually a teacher-training course, a gathering to train teachers of Transcendental Meditation. I didn’t really realise that that was the case when I first went there, I was so new to meditation. I had only been meditating a month or two and yet I was invited to India by Maharishi, and I said ‘I don’t know about the other guys but I’ll be there’ and it was really the most fascinating time of my life.
I was there at the breakfast table one morning when Paul McCartney came to the table with his acoustic guitar saying hey Michael, will you listen to this: ‘I flew in from Miami Beach, BOAC’ and he sang me the original version of ‘Back in the USSR’ and I told Paul: ‘well you ought to talk about all the girls around Russia like we talked about all the girls around the world in ‘California Girls’ and he did. We had a couple of nice conversations there and listened to Maharishi lecture in the afternoon and evening. It was really, really a fascinating time."




Just that small sampling, video and print, does anything even give a hint that they were aware of TM before Paris 1967? And I'm wondering why this would be the case, especially based on the direct memory of Nadine and Henry Lewy as told to Cam, the fact that they had been aware of it since 1966 and had even gone to a session with Brian and Marilyn hosted by the Lewys as early as 1966.

I don't see that any of it contradicts the Lewys. The Boys learned meditation for the first time from the Maha in Paris. The Lewys didn't claim to have taught them how to meditate, in fact they say the Boys didn't even make it to the last 6 of 7 mandatory lectures let alone ever getting to  the instructions or initiation.

In regards to Brian, maybe some better evidence than the Lewys' eye witness-participant accounts can or can not be turned from the TM organization.

I'm going to again say thank you to Cam for putting out the information in this thread which was told by the Lewys. It goes beyond timelines and more into the area of a historical game changer of sorts, and if the reasons why are not evident, it's important to look at the way the history is told.

For me, I'm willing to take what the Lewys or even only Nadine Lewy told Cam at face value, and even though when I first read it I admit I was skeptical. But I have no doubt that in 1966 Brian attended these discussions and courses just as Nadine Lewy told Cam, up to and including the issue of getting certified if we want to take it that far. I have seen or read nothing which would suggest that what Nadine told Cam is not true, and more to suggest without going further than just the words in this thread that it happened as told to Cam. The extent of what happened and who was involved could be parsed and dissected further, but again I'll take it as a confirmation that Brian studied TM with the Lewys in 1966.

I'll restate it again, and even call out for more participation from people on this board: Is it just me, or does it seem even slightly odd that this aspect of the band's history has not been widely reported? I've read and tried to read almost every bit and blurb of this band's history as it has come out and continues to come out. Of all the books, magazines, histories, and even various online sources, has anyone on this board including those authors and historians who have published their own histories of the band recalled seeing a mention of what Cam revealed in this thread about Brian and Marilyn studying TM? And that one or several of the other band members were given an introduction to TM at one of the first meetings with Henry and/or Nadine Lewy?

Another side of that question would be to ask: Hasn't the story of the band and TM been told more often that they were introduced to it in Paris in 1967 (as told by Mike and Al in my quotes and videos above), that Dennis set up the meeting, and how that specific meeting with the Maharishi was the "first impression" they had of the practices of TM? Mike Love in that video interview specifically uses the term "first impressions" when describing that meeting in Paris, 1967.

So taking what Cam posted again at face value, they all had a brother/cousin/bandmate and his wife who had been attending classes for weeks in 1966, had completed the course of study which ended in a ceremony of some kind attended by the woman who had been the first and only teacher certified to teach TM by the Maharishi himself in the US in the early 60's, and the band's first impressions of TM didn't happen until late 1967 in Paris?

I find it hard to believe that no one would know or remember that Brian had been - according to Nadine Lewy who was there - "certified" or at least given a ceremony in 1966. No one else was aware of this? And beyond that, let's take again at face value the words Cam was told. Mike in one excerpt above described his time in India studying TM as a "teacher-training course", which he says he did not realize it was going into the trip to India, and also mentions that he himself has been certified since 1968 (EDIT: or 1972, or even another year) for teaching and bringing in new members into TM.

Is it just me, or does the revelation that Brian and possibly Marilyn too were potentially given the same certification in 1966 as Mike was given not set off a few alarm bells, send up a few red flags, etc etc etc? Just in terms of how the band's history has been told so far...now the information that Brian was doing what Mike was doing up to the present, only 2 years or so earlier than anyone said...or is it simpler than that?

At the very least, it's a  :o  kind of moment, and I want to see where it leads. There is more to this...what exactly the "more" could be is the interesting stuff.  :)

I too would be interested too.

To me it seems as simple as no one asked specifically about it before and/ or they didn't mention previous instruction because they didn't get previous instruction according to the best eyewitness account so far.

To me everything factual  presented so far either agrees with, confirms, or does not contradict anything in the detailed account by the Lewys. So somebody needs to get more info from the other people and organizations involved if it is suspected that there is more or different.

Maybe some/all doubt me or that the info is from the Lewys. Fair enough. I can't answer that. It's even happened before regarding whether I had had communication with Michael Vosse. If the Lewys are still alive you could track them down and report the account you get. I really hope someone will also contact the TM org about their records and also the surviving Boys about what they actually know/remember.

Cam, I don't doubt you at all or doubt that what you were told by the Levys is anything but true, in fact I've been going on the assumption and the trust that it is true for my most recent posts. I accept that it happened, I accept that Brian was in classes/studies with Nadine/Henry and Beulah Smith in 1966.

Let's accept that it happened as you were told, in the words you posted here, and look at the larger points that your post could raise.

Just one aspect or element out of a larger group we could be looking at: Beulah Smith in terms of TM in the 1960's was possibly as close to the Maharishi himself as someone interested in studying TM could get in terms of early 1960's California...once again, she was personally trained and instructed by the Maharishi on the TM techniques and how to teach them to others, and for a time she was the only one specifically certified to teach it at least in California which is where it started to catch on.

If you have Brian and Marilyn Wilson attending classes that at some point near the end had the personal appearance of Beulah Smith, knowing she was the go-to person for teaching the Maharishi's TM courses for the first half of the 1960's, it just boggles my mind to think about that fact and then try to rectify the statements by the other Beach Boys through the years. When they suggest first impressions, introductions, and whatnot to TM coming specifically and implicitly on that 1967 Paris UNICEF concert event and subsequent meeting, it totally leaves out the fact that their brother/cousin/bandmate had studied the exact same techniques a year earlier, with all of them there at least for a meet-and-greet and introduction session in Fall 1966.

It doesn't make sense why they seem to have either forgotten or have neglected to mention that fact, that within their own band and family was a guy who had completed the course and instructions they were all but touting as a new revelation for them at the end of 1967 into 1968.

Again, let's accept and move beyond trying to confirm if it did or didn't happen, let's accept at face-value the Lewy details you posted as what most likely happened, and take it from there.  :) The book or ledger from SIMS or any other group would only confirm what Lewy said about Brian and Marilyn being there for studies if we could track it down, and that's not the answer or discussion we're looking for at this point if we accept that it happened.

I am not following you I guess, I'm not sure what is now being questioned or why anymore.

If we accept the Lewy's account then we know that the Boys attended one lecture and then dropped out but Brian and Marilyn continued and jumped through all of the hoops necessary to become initiates at a ceremony by Buelah Smith. Whether any of them mentioned it or not in connection with another event does not really contradict it. The Lewys account shows a Brian with a lot of commitment to TM long before the other Boys had as much commitment. What are the quotes from Brian concerning the Maha? If the Lewys' detailed account is wrong then let's get the evidence to correct it.

The Boys went to a meeting and were not instructed or intitiated into TM by the Lewys and they also went to Paris and were instructed and initiated into TM by the Maha. They are both true and not contradictory, that they didn't bring up not being instructed in TM by the Lewys in connection with first being instructed in TM by the Maha doesn't make either untrue or even suspect imo. Until someone comes up with evidence that shows the Lewys were wrong or mistaken I guess we will just have to disagree.

Cam, I'm not arguing the Lewys' account at all, in fact as I've said several times (including in the post you just replied to) I'm going on the assumption that it happened as they told you it did, and also assuming the band members if asked would confirm it. I don't know why you posted this reply as if I'm arguing or challenging you on that when I'm not.  :)  Honestly I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm disputing you or what you were told if I'm saying I'm specifically not! I really don't know how much more clear I could have been in my last post on that, other than to say let's accept that it was what the Lewys told you, and move beyond that to get into the other implications of this, especially with the history.

I'll repeat again for about the fourth time in an effort to move beyond the "did it happen or not?" stage...

Did everyone who would become involved in TM within the band (and that was all of them to start, two of them moving forward beyond the 60's) either have a lapse of memory and forget within a year that they were made aware of the practice a year before the UNICEF show in Paris, are they simply ignoring it in every TM-related interview when they pin down Paris '67 as the "first" time they were introduced after their bandmate was studying it and had them along for at least one introductory session a year earlier? Did they simply write it off in 1966 when Brian was exploring this alongside other spiritual pursuits? Or is there more to it, including some deeper reason we haven't heard as to why the fact that Brian had learned what all of them were publicly raving about throughout 1968 and beyond at least a full year before any of them say/claim they knew about it? Again, it just does not make sense and I'm curious to find out why one of their bandmates learning this in 1966 is not part of the "official" story as told through the years, and they repeatedly say and had said "Paris in 1967" was the starting point, the introduction.

Let me rephrase it just a bit: Someone through the years asks any of the band members "How did you first become aware of Transcendental Meditation?", and can you think of **any** instance where any of them mentioned either going to a session with Henry Lewy, or Brian taking weeks of courses on the meditation in 1966/67 and finding out about it then? I sure can't...it's always been "Paris 1967" as the answer, and it doesn't seem to be accurate based on the info in this thread.

OK, maybe I've gotten it all along. I gave my answer to that question several times.

The quotes I've seen so far they just claim they first took instruction and initiation from Maha not that they didn't know anything about TM until Paris. Did I miss something? They could have forgotten about the one lecture at the Lewys but since Paris was a different event and context it doesn't seem odd to me that they didn't bring it up even if they did remember it.  The Lewys' claim that the Boys did not take instruction or initiation with them in 1966. The Boys claim they first did take instruction and initiation from the Maha in Paris in 1967. Neither contradicts the other. The Lewys' claim can be true and the Boys' statements can be true and there is no contradiction between the two. To me that is not a controversy because they don't contradict each other. I guess we will just disagree (if we are disagreeing) until new evidence is brought on.

If TM were not such a major part of the Beach Boys story up to the present day, it wouldn't be more than a blip on the radar screen. But I can't help but notice the almost total lack of any mention (except one sentence buried in the 1976 Rolling Stone cover story saying Brian was into it before any of them) that the band was aware of and introduced to it through Brian, through Henry Lewy, back in 1966. When Cam posted the transcripts in this thread, again at first I was skeptical as I often am but I'll say flat-out I believe it, I believe that Brian had been studying this method of meditation through the Lewys in 1966. He was studying a variety of spirituality/philosophy and exploring meditation through several channels, reported as early as 1966 in the press. We know, and have several reports including now Cam's conversations, that the other Beach Boys were introduced to at least two of these specific spiritual-meditation pursuits through Brian as early as 1966. I'll also assume what has been reported on any number of issues central to 1966/67 that Brian may simply have lost interest in the pursuit, decided something wasn't for him after studying and going deeper into it, and moved onto something new.

Maybe it was seeing two of the Beatles sitting with the Maharishi (and Henry Lewy) that really sparked the other band members' interest in Dec. 1967, but isn't it quite an omission to not see or find even a quote which said something like "we knew Brian was into this in 1966", "oh yeah, we went to a session with Brian in 1966", or anything of the sort? If you read any number of accounts, they all but suggest that UNICEF event was the first time they had been exposed to this kind of meditation and philosophy, and that is simply not the case as this thread would seem to prove. I'm wondering why meditation in 1966 seemingly gets ignored when we know the other band members were exposed to it through Brian, yet from 1968 onward it's like they found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow through TM meditation, centered on that 12/67 event where the Maharishi was there with a few Beatles.

Maybe Mike wouldn't want to go out of his way to state that Brian got into TM (even though he didn't stay with it) before Mike himself did. Not terribly dissimilar from the oft-told Brianless creation of Kokomo. Yet Mike goes out of his way to credit Dennis with nudging him toward TM in the Facebook post. I admit it's an odd, if possibly inadvertent omission (by all the other bandmates too) that seems a bit like selective memory, any way you slice it.

I wonder if Brian still practices TM?

Didn't he co-write "Transcendental Meditation" and sole author the "TM Song"? Maybe his interest extended to 1976 at least.

How long or how intensely did any of the band members practice meditation...who knows, right? But the way I worded that was specific: There is a difference between practicing meditation - which is a practice shared by nearly every religious and spiritual pursuit I can think of from Buddhism to Christianity to Islam and everything in between- and being a devoted follower of the Maharishi and his specific methods of teaching/learning meditation techniques through TM. There are interviews from the 70's posted on this site where various band members through the 70's mention meditation and specifically TM as something they did, but as far as how heavy or for how long they were doing it is anyone's guess. Note that both Lennon and McCartney talk positively about practicing meditation and even advise others to do it, but it was the overall scene and the corporate/celebrity aura around the Maharishi and those related issues which they rejected. Yet they were still advocating if not practicing meditation in general.

I also know of a 1966 magazine interview where Carl talks openly about God and spirituality, and similar 1966 interviews and reports that Brian was pursuing meditation and spirituality/philosophy which was not TM and which involved group discussions and classes/meetings that were separate from TM, at the same time he was *also* according to the info here pursuing TM through the Levys. And the other Beach Boys were reported to have been involved in some way in *those* as well at that time.

So again, factor this in as Brian exploring and studying a number of areas of spirituality and meditation around '66, and if nothing else he was actively engaged in these spiritual pursuits from a number of philosophies and sources.

***So why do you think the only mention of Brian being the first to explore or even introduce the other band to TM and other forms of meditation seems to have been a single sentence in a 1976 Rolling Stone article stating Brian was the first to explore TM? Cam's posts in this thread back that sentence up, so why when directly asked have (or do) none of the others mention this, especially since Nadine remembers "all six Beach Boys" being at one of her sessions? Is it really a case of selective memory as mentioned, or something else?

I don't know, why did Brian never mention (as far as I know) that he had previously attended a full course of lectures and instruction and validation and verification and been very active and was still active and had even been initiated into TM? I'm guessing the same as I'm guessing for the Boys, it wasn't asked and/or didn't seem relevant in his/their mind?

I'm feeling that you have an opinion about the Boys, what is it?

Nice shot on the last sentence.  :)  Just a reminder for how all of this entered the discussion in the first place:


So let's say, Cam, you or I were to ask Brian about this in the near future and he'd say "yes, that sounds about right." Wouldn't that change what has been the answer for almost each and every time another band member has been asked "how did you first get into TM?" or some variation of that question? Because as I said about 4 times already, the answer is always some version of Paris-1967-Maharishi-UNICEF, etc. It's been a stock answer. Along with how "simple" the process and practice seemed to be, after - again - dating their introduction to Paris in 1967 with the Maharishi.

What you posted from talking with the Lewys changed the history most people have heard and which they have been told through various interviews and articles. I called what you posted a game-changer, I stand by that. If the Lewy version of events is true, and again I'm going on the assumption that it is, then any past, present, or future answer given to a question "when did you first become aware of TM?" which doesn't mention what the Lewys said about 1966 would not be accurate. Thanks to what you posted, we can now make that judgement.

So my thoughts on The Boys in all of this? Same as they were after you posted: Why have none of them mentioned that Brian was studying this in 1966 and they were introduced to it a full year before anyone has claimed they were introduced to it in Paris?

I'm just guessing-but probably the 1966 intro to TM wasn't that big a deal to the BBs.  I'm assuming that they weren't in the right head space in 1966 to get into it and may have just gone for a laugh.  Obviously being given a mantra and instructed by Maharishi is a lot more exciting and memorable than just attending a meeting with disciples.  You'd have to ask Mike but I wouldn't be surprised if he told you that he just went to that meeting with Brian for fun-and spent most of the meeting try to talk up some girl and really didn't pay much attention! In which case-he probably decided to just leave it out of his usual how I learned meditation interviews.

Ian, I'm happy to see you adding to this discussion. As someone who has done extensive research and has published on the topic of BB's history including referencing and turning up much lost or forgotten archival material, have you ever come across any mention of the kind of information Cam posted here via his conversations with Henry and Nadine Lewy? I cannot recall anything of the sort being mentioned, apart from one brief sentence in the 1976 Rolling Stone cover story, especially about TM and 1966. That's why I'm hung up on what Cam posted, it's information I've never seen even hinted at beyond that single sentence in RS.

No I haven't but I think Brian mentions studying meditation prior to 1968 in the 1968 interview with Jamake Hightower, that is or was available online as an audio file

If you accept what the Lewys said I guess I'm puzzled as to why you are still puzzled by it.

If you accept it then the Boys went to one lecture out of seven, the lecturer herself said (16 years ago) that they may have heard a lecture about "Deep Meditation" not TM.

We don't know if they ever heard the  Maha's name. It was the first lecture. maybe someone can turn a script for the lectures of 1966 if they kept detailed records. They weren't interested enough to attend even one more lecture and they didn't mention it two years later. Perhaps that is another indication that they didn't hear anything about something called TM or a guy named Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or how little they cared about or listened to the lecture they attended. We can't prove a negative especially with speculation.

But if you accept the witness then we do know that the Boys both went to a lecture and also didn't mention it two years later. For whatever reason.

Is there some other meaning suggested to you by the Boys' not mentioning they had gone to a lecture two years earlier?

I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion or not or has any value, but Robbie Krieger and John Densmore of The Doors were both enrolled in Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM classes in 1965 in Los Angeles. Densmore writes about it in his book and expresses his and Robbie's surprise in 1967 when the Maharishi turned up on TV with The Beatles, joking that the Maharishi went after the big prize or something like that.

I would think that if those two were into TM that early in the game, there must've been some sort of hipster TM awareness in Los Angeles.

Great thread.

Two possibilities:

a. the Beach Boys did go to a meeting but it didn't register in their memories as 'Maharishi's TM" but as "one of those Brian's new age things".

b. While I'm certain that the Lewis introduced Brian and Marylin to TM in 1966, "all six Beach Boys" present at one meeting may be a case of faulty memory decades after the fact. Brian and some friends of his age (Loren et all) may be at first misunderstood as his rock band, a notion perhaps corrected afterwards but then years after Nadine thinks she remembers having met all six Beach Boys in a meeting.

Cam, what are you getting at? Did I say I was "puzzled" by it? I said I was hung up on it, I was interested in it, I wanted to pursue it further, and I thanked you multiple times for sharing it. What surprised me, and this is why I asked Ian about it too since he has done a huge amount of research on this history, is how it has never been mentioned or hinted at before you posted it.

If I say it's surprising and I wonder how and why no one seems to have remembered this within the band, does that cover your band question which you've now asked me twice?  :)

In return, can I ask you one question?  ;D    I will anyway:

Why did you bring up this topic in the first place by mentioning Brian getting certified as a TM instructor in 1966 (with ceremony) in the first place? I don't recall or simply can't find the name "Brian" being mentioned at all in this thread until you did. Not saying the information you posted via the Lewys wasn't appreciated, but just curious anyway what made you bring it up in this conversation.

Ghosty, it wasn't just TM but rather a variety of meditation outlets and techniques, a lot of different offshoots of Eastern philosophy and meditation-based religion and philosophy. I specifically mentioned a few of the TM-specific outlets and names earlier in some of my ramblings, but let's just say there were many, many different avenues for spiritual enlightenment being sought in and around hip LA in 1965-66, and Brian seems to have covered a good half-dozen or more of them himself!  :-D

I have Brian and Carl in magazines in 1966 talking about spirituality/religion and their pursuits of it, so it was definitely being talked about in the open, even in the so-called "teen" press.

With The Doors, take note of the name "Beulah Smith", just to recap she was the only person certified by the Maharishi to teach and bring his TM method of meditation to California in the early 60's. Just like the Lewys, if the Doors learned or studied TM in the early days like 1965, chances are it was from an instructor who had learned it directly from Beulah Smith as she was for a time the only one who could do it in California.

OK, surprised. Carry on. I don't find it particularly surprising.

People on page 2 were discussing who in the group was how invested in the Maha and TM.

I think they were more wondering who was in support of the Maharishi touring with them in 1968 among the voting members. I assume it got a majority "yes" vote since it happened, but what apparently got all "no" votes except Mike's lone "yes" was the idea of funding a Maharishi movie through Brother, as described earlier here. I forget the source, but that was rejected out of hand. I wonder if that vote was before or after the tour?

Yep, I've wondered about "b". I didn't pursue it 16 years ago I guess because Henry said he had known the group from Western and the group was conversing with him at Western and he had invited the group. I don't know beyond that how well Henry Lewy knew how many Beach Boys but Nadine also said the whole group attended the first meeting and she made a distinction between the group attending with Brian and others not from the group attending later lectures with Brian.

I'm assuming Henry would have personally known Carl too, since he was with Brian on more sessions in 65-66 than the others, and I'm assuming even stronger that he would have known Bruce since Bruce was doing sessions on his own and playing with the same musicians Henry was working with in those studios. I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt Henry and Bruce may have even worked on the same session at some point.

Was The Association mentioned in your talks?

The posts just before mine are about who was how impressed and involved with/by the Maha and TM.

I don't know/remember anything about a movie or when it was voted on. If after, maybe they couldn't afford the movie after they voted to throw away their money on their TM tour.

Didn't the whole group record vocals at Western before Columbia? How long was Lewy on staff?

The only mention of the Association was by Henry and he said one of the Association house-sat for them while they were in India in 1967.

Henry didn't say who it was but I believe there is a liner notes quote by Gary Alexander on the  “and then…along comes The Association” album saying he “doesn’t smoke, drink or eat meat and would like to travel to India to ‘study the mystic religious life there’.”  So maybe him?

I got the impression Henry was more of a freelancer, I don't think he was specifically employed by Western/United and was producing and engineering too, kind of like Bones Howe. He worked at Gold Star on some famous records, along with the other big studios, which is how I thought he and Bruce would have known each other if they did.

Jules/Gary Alexander actually did go to India in May 1967 or thereabouts, and ended up leaving the band until 1969, so perhaps it was him! I ask too because it sounds like Alexander may have followed Henry Lewy's lead with TM if that's what he traveled to India to do, but the other band members were more heavily involved in a non-TM spiritual/meditation group and philosophy at the time (1966) and have spoken about it, I just wondered if that had come up with Henry.

But the whole group and Lewy could have been very familiar with each other through Western or at least had the opportunity.

I have something very interesting on Henry in my digital archives, let me upload it and post it...

It may be a little hard to read, but this is clipped from the "United And Affiliates Newsletter" April 1967 issue, which was the internal company newsletter when Henry was working at Western/United/UA, and it describes the trip he and Nadine were taking to India.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/henrylewynews_zps515d48de.jpg)

EDIT: If you right-click on it and "view image", or just go to the link itself, you'll be able to enlarge and read it better.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/henrylewynews_zps515d48de.jpg (http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/henrylewynews_zps515d48de.jpg)

I don't want to read too much into it but it is interesting that this Lewy/meditation-centric article doesn't mention the MMY's name or mention "Transcendental".

The December 1965 issue of those newsletters shows Henry Lewy as one of "our engineering staff".

https://studioelectronics.biz/newsletters/65dec.pdf

Haven't looked at the earlier issues for his name.

Henry was on the UA staff for sure, as the newsletters show at least from 65-67 and the time he traveled to India.

I posted that both for the interest/relationship to the conversation, and to show exactly what Cam picked up on as well. The name "Maharishi" is not mentioned, nor is "TM" or "Transcendental Meditation", rather it is described more as a form of yoga, or yoga-based meditation.

Why not mention "The Maharishi" or anything like we are familiar with? I thought about it, and without having the solid, 100% right answer, I have a theory.

What happened in the latter half of 1967? The Maharishi became visible as a media personality, with the public association to The Beatles, his visibility and market share (if you consider it that) rose about a thousand-fold higher than it had been even a year earlier.

Along with that, you had in latter 1967 magazine profiles of him, articles written about him, TV appearances by him, and in general what could be seen as a "media blitz". He became a topic of conversation because he was in the news and the media.

How many media blitzes are purely accidental? If you get print, TV, radio, etc all on board in 1967, there was something of a concerted effort to publicize the Maharishi and TM. It worked.

What about my theory that it was planned that way in 1967 whereas at the time Henry Lewy was set to travel to India as reported in his company newsletter, the Maharishi wasn't as much of a media figure, and his efforts to spread his meditation techniques were not looking as much like an advertising campaign?

The Henry Lewy UA newsletter piece describes almost exactly what I believe the Beatles thought they would be getting in India...the banks of the Ganges, a simple, primitive lifestyle, no major roads or modern conveniences, basically the escape from the media culture they were looking for.

When they arrived at the ashram, they saw a sprawling office-complex type of facility, funded by Doris Duke, complete with broadcast center, corporate offices, a helicopter port, and other very "modern" and corporate features. Then they have the simple, basic man they expected asking them to send millions into a Swiss bank account, have them appear in films with him, and also see him planning a rock and roll tour as well as making press junkets just as they had been doing as superstar musicians.

So the Maharishi and his TM methods got marketing-savvy as 1967 went into 1968, and perhaps some of the followers he had picked up knew their way around a media campaign? The Maharishi became a visible entity in order to better "sell" the movement, perhaps? Where in early '67, most people would not know the Maharishi, and as in the Lewy article above, his name wasn't as important as what Lewy was going there to study. That of course would soon change. Just a thought.

With Nadine making a point of mentioning that TM may not have been known as TM at the time, it now seems very much more  likely that you could attend a lecture at the Lewy's in late 1966 and not hear the name of MMY or the term TM.

I found something else regarding the BBs' brush with Deep Meditation/Spiritual Rejuvenation/TM. We were wondering if the Lewy's didn't know what they were talking about or were confusing someone like the Vosse Posse with the Boys. I had posted a quote from VDP suggesting he wasn't one of those at the introductory lecture since he had never met Nadine Lewy who supposedly was doing the introduction/classes, etc.. I found another related quote. The parentheses and punctuation etc.  are Michael's.

"As for the T-M connection with Henry and Nadine... I don't have a notion of the thread nor it's place in any timeline. If Henry and Nadine were T-M'ing with the Wilsons before I came along, or after, I don't remember it.  I remember Henry and Nadine very very very well, they were great pals of mine and Henry was my patient mentor in the studio the time A&M (foolishly) let me co-produce and album ( with Henry Thank God). I did have plenty of conversations with Henry about T-M and knew he and N were quite involved and all that. But that would be many months After leaving BB's."

Michael Vosse e-mail 12/18/2001

So apparently Michael was not one of those at the introductory lecture at the Lewy's either.

Also I had been presuming that Henry's invitation to Brian, which he associated with hearing an unfinished GV track with Theremin, was in September of '66 but really it could have been anytime at Western from May 4 '66 up to September 8 '66 I suppose.

Al's Lennon Tribute interview seems to confirm that Brian had taken TM instruction long before the Boys met the Maha in Paris.