The Smiley Smile Message Board

The Beach Boys have been augmented by extra musicians on stage since the late 60s but could the Beach Boys of today (assuming they'd even get on stage together again) still put on a show on their own, even without Foskett!  ...Okay, I'll allow them a drummer:

Mike: Vocals and (ahem) Sax
Brian: Vocals, Bass or Keyboards
Bruce: Vocals, Keyboards or Bass (no handclaps or scissor kicks!)
David: Vocals, Lead Guitar
Al: Vocals, Rhythm Guitar
AN Other: Drums

I would pay more to watch that than the Beach Boys augmented by so many side men. No matter the sound, I would like it to happen.

I don't think it would be possible without extra singers. Musically, David is the only one I have complete confidence in.

They could probably play once but not tour. I can't see Brian, Al or Bruce being able to carry the group's falsetto for more than a couple shows. I also think they would probably all have to play with teleprompters with reminders for chords.

Early on in the C50 tour they sang In My Room with a simple arrangement that was basically Brian, Bruce, Al, and Mike.  with a little Dave and a little Jeff. However, as the tour went on Jeff  overpowered them. I would have loved to have heard the 4 of them do that more on tour, ( they did with Add Some Music too)  with Graduation Day or Hearts were Full of Spring.

In Terre Haute, Indiana, fall of 1981, I saw Bruce, Alan, Mike and, I think, Ed Carter, do the first 30 minutes of a show with the drummer from the opening act ("Red Rider").  Five musicians on stage, no one else.  Brian and the rest of the musicians arrived later (Dennis stayed at the hotel).  Material was much simpler that tour... Surfin'... Surfin' Safari... etc... but it sounded OK.

What about Ricky on Drums?

It might be interesting, but I just don't believe it would be very good. If we're talking about something like the typical BW or M&B bands' hits shows, neither their voices nor instrumental chops (Dave as the exception) are up to it. Instrumentally, they augmented the band in the '60s because the songs got harder and included arrangements that required it. You could have stripped-down arrangements, but they'd be comparably dull. And vocally, all good wishes and optimism aside, there's just no way they could handle the falsettos or higher non-falsetto parts consistently in a way that could result in any kind of aesthetic success. (That's the nicest way I can say it.) The guys who still sing falsetto on occasion don't sound anywhere near as clear or strong as the songs deserve, and really even the leads are taxing for them half the time. Brian misses notes all the time. Al, while still possessing a great timbre and stronger range than Brian, is clearly reaching on the higher notes. Bruce is raspy every time I hear him.

I don't mean this to be negative, just honest. There would be sentimental value for the audience, presumably, and that might make it "sound" better than it sounds. (I firmly believe in that phenomenon in live settings anyway: if it's fun, it sounds better. That's the energy.) But the music deserves to be presented by people who can really pull it off, and those guys can't.

(The lack of a drummer is a challenge, too. Even if you got Brian to bang out his little Spector bits, then you're out either a bassist or keyboardist.)

Like this?  I thought they sounded pretty good. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fbNxH0_9C8

I'm fine with the extra padding.

Problem for me is they may be concentrating so hard on playing that the vocals would suffer, and that's what its all about.

I think with a lot of rehearsal and choosing the right material, they probably could (in theory anyway) - would have been cool to see them do a little mini-set like that during the anniversary tour.

Why do people want to see this? The Beach Boys haven't played without backing musicians since 1967, and they don't have a full lineup anymore.

A different league of course but the Stones did it I guess to show they could still rock as a small unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goLIKQwGNGg

I think they could, sure.  It'd be a much different sound than what they're famous for.  Hell David and Al playing guitar could get enough of a cacophony going that it would be 'music'.  Add Brian and Bruce padding in some keyboards and you'd have a nice little groove going. 

Yup. Throw Blondie in there on guitar and vocals, and dang... now that would be a treat.

First, they would have to be really into it. They would have to want to do it. If that's a given, you got yourself a motivated Brian and that's the main thing ("It's a Love thing!"). Then they'd have to rehearse their asses off. Choose maybe 10 tracks to work on and arrange those for the given situation. It'd be a short show, but - again, if Brian and company were really into it - it be magnificent. I'm certain of it.

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/300cqzc.jpg)

This is probably going to get me in trouble, but I'll say it anyway. I think the "A Vocal Element" bootleg set of 1967 shows are fairly good evidence that the beach boys haven't always been the greatest of musicians. They would have to really take it seriously. A "stripped down" version of the surviving group would be shaky vocally. Bruce has a high enough of a register left that he could handle the harder notes. Could Brian or Bruce play the bass for the full show? If they had Scott Totten and John Cowsill it could be damn good.

Blondie can also play bass as he did for the Stones.

I thought Daryl Jones was playing bass for the Stones?

Simply... no. Vocally, probably but instrumentally... why do you think there were as many backing guys as there were in 2012 ?

I agree that, if they wanted to, they could pull off the early  hits with a minimum of help. They did them live in those days as a five man group, even with the Wrecking Crew providing more meat on the tracks.  I think they can still pull out those harmonies, so drums and falsetto might be the only thing they would really need help with on those songs.  The problem comes when you get into Pet Sounds/Smile territory.  Playing them with a bare bones garage band would rob them of some of their essential complexity.  

Having said that, though, I really liked the acoustic set they did for Rolling Stone on the C50 promotion tour. Something like that would be an awesome experience. An "unplugged" concert to showcase those glorious vocal arrangements. David and Al on guitar, someone thumping a cajon,  Matt giving some falsetto assist, and Beach Boys harmonies filling the hall… yeah, I'd pay to see that.

Sorry about the double post. I keep hitting the wrong button. :D

No, I don't reckon they could do it any more.  For one thing, would Brian be able to resist doing the hand jive and keep his hands on the keys?

As some have eluded to, this could probably work with *some* of the early hits. However, five people playing "Good Vibrations"..."Heroes and Villains"...? No way, at least not THESE five guys.

Mike's role wouldn't change. Bruce has said before he's not a great bassist, so I wouldn't count on him. I'd like to think he still has his 60's keyboard chops, he just doesn't use them? I don't know, he's strange. Alan can hold down a rhythm part, sure. David would especially shine in this setting as he's easily the most competent musician of the bunch right now. And obviously Brian would be worthless in this setting.

So my response is, add a bassist to that drummer you mentioned and this MIGHT fly with songs like "I Get Around" "Surfin' USA" "California Girls" etc.

The Beach Boys haven't sounded that great without augmentation since 1967. Still, I would like to hear it.

Brian did Good Vibrations by himself on piano in 76. I think they would be capable of doing a full set worth of songs in a garage style and make them sound good.  The question is, could they do it for that long straight?  I doubt it. I think a more likely scenerio is like Brian's Smile tour when they did the stripped down section.  They did that with Add Some Music, but if they did 5 or 6 songs in a row during the reunion tour of just Beach Boys,  it would have been cool.

I don't think The Beach Boys could do with anything less than what Mike and Bruce are touring with now - and even then, they're touring with instrumentalists far younger and skilled than what Al, Brian, or even Bruce can do consistently.

Would be fine with addition o cowsill,foskett and kirsch.   8 guys.

I think adding Ricky and Blondie are the only way that "just the Beach Boys" could do it.

Brian - piano and vocals (and maaaaaaaaaaaybe a song or two on bass)
Mike - vocals (and that trusty tambourine of his)
Al - bass and rhythm guitar, vocals
Bruce - organ, piano, simple synthesizer parts, bass, vocals
David - lead guitar and vocals
Blondie - lead guitar, bass, vocals
Ricky - drums, keyboards, guitar, vocals

The only thing really missing is a strong falsetto but you can get around that by catering the set list to the band's strengths. 

The whole thing of course is a HUGE pipe dream which is why I included the South African guys.    If you're gonna dream, dream big! :)

And speaking of dreams, the alternative is to cater the set around available footage/multitracks featuring Carl and Dennis and include them instead and do the whole show similar to the Carl-centric C50 performances of "God Only Knows". 

My band used to do Good Vibrations, Sloop John B, and the early hits as a three piece (guitar, bass and drums).  We could've done with some organ, and more vocals! 

The Beach Boys could easily do something like Lei'd in Hawaii, with the organ and some guitars.  Even the drums were pretty basic.  I too would have loved to have heard them do a stripped down mini set during C50.  This was a really big missed opportunity in my book, more so not taking the chance to do something like "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring" as a last hurrah for the greatest vocal group of them all.

Yeah, but I don't think "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring" sang by 5 men in their sixties and seventies is going to sound the same as the five men in their teens and twenties who sang it in the 1960s, it would probably be a bit off an embarrassment; whence the half a dozen extra vocalists needed on stage to make them sound nearly half as good as they did back in the day.  And of course none of these vocalists can sing like Carl Wilson.

I agree, but it may sound more like the guys who sang it in the 80s.  Bruce could handle the falsetto on it.  I think it would still be pretty good (if they rehearsed it thoroughly).

3 in their 60s and 70s plus a few sidemen sound pretty good to these ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6BxTdbZlAg

These other 70 year olds do a pretty nice version too. Bruce still up there hitting some high ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNS6jiPEWHY

Great mid-song mic adjustment by Bruce.

That's the key in answering the topic question. Of course, it's not difficult for old guys to sing & play. Age is no excuse. They're just being lazy & all whining like most old-timers do, that's why they call on sidemen. There need be someone who'd shake 'em off of their "trance". I'd really like to see 5 original BBs together w/ no odd figures. It'd be huge, I'll tell ya!

is it really Mike blasting away on "What'd I Say"? Sounds good to me----in fact the entire band is in stupendous form...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMFsy9fIaqQ 

I assume this is a joke.

No, why would you say so?

Probably the combination of obvious inaccuracy about age's obvious effects on voices and offensive insinuation that older people are typically lazy and whiny. So if you're not joking, it's just safe to say you're wrong and rude.

How about bad phrasing? My intent wasn't to be rude, just express my own opinion like everybody. As to being wrong, well, yes, the age makes a big difference in voice, but don't you think that if they rehearsed extensively that they would go on with a show alone, only 5 guys? It may not be achieved suddenly, but little by little, I'm sure it's not a fantasy world thing.

As a fan, you just gotta be positive. Mike, Al, David & Bruce already have energy enough to be on their own, now we need to instill an enthusiasm in Brian. I think it's not totally a hopeless situation.

No further comment.

Does it mean you agree with me?

I don't know at what age you consider someone to be an old-timer, but I turned 58 today, and I am not a lazy whiner.  Now get off my lawn. :old

Well, by old-timers I meant exclusively old musicians, as it's a musical forum. I don't know the general statistics or whatever. So your last bit is irrelevant.

They could maybe do it, like they did it with Brian in '67 — transforming songs into Smiley Smile-type arrangements

I am a musician.  Have been for 40 years.  You're still on my lawn.

Not to argue, but Judy Collins can still sing like a bird - live and otherwise.  Also check some of the "oldie's" sets Neil Young was doing earlier this year.  I think Mike Nesmith stills sounds good too.  Jimmy Webb is better than ever, he just gets more confident with age - he doesn't care if he can't hit the high notes, he's doing "Up, Up and Away" damn it.  As Crosby used to say..."without a net."  For the fans.

yes, around the 30 second mark. Does Bruce ever have  a word with the roadies about this?

and spoil his fun?

Horowitz played fantastically  well into his 80's. I can't imagine the ridicule he would have received if he had some other pianist off in the wing play his part while he mimed it. I guess the rock world and the classical world are just very different places.

Uh, think so?

To me, the BBs are mostly a vocal group. Not a rock band. Their greatest records often featured session guys (not exclusively, as was once believed, but here and there from early on). They barely play on PS or Good Vibes. But those are still archetypal BB records.

So I don't mind sidemen. I would have liked the sidemen to sing less. That original vocal blend is what I came to hear. And for a few tunes on the C50 tour, they did it. And it sounded great.

I don't think they could pull off a full show live. They could probably do a few songs -- I think "Surfer Girl" would be a really good one, even if it was just Dave on acoustic guitar and no one else playing -- but not a whole show and not some of the more complicated songs instrumentally.

After TWGMTR came out and before the acrimony at the end of the C50 tour, I thought there was a good shot at having another Beach Boys album. I was thinking it would be really great to have a track on it with just the five of them providing all the instruments and voices.

And I knew that? Also, I said "most", not "all" musicians are whining. And I still don't find anything bad about calling someone an old-timer. Truth can be bitter, but you gotta face it.

I disagree. More rehearsals with less instruments would do fine. In a sort of stripped-down fashion.

I agree with those who say what's the point. So they use other musicians, so do many other bands. If it makes the concert sound better who cares? The stones started using extra musicians in 1970 as well. Not because they couldn't play the parts but because they wanted to give people their money's worth.

it would be great just for one last time, to see all the 'guys'....

Brian - Keys
Alan - Guitar (or Bass)
Dave - Guitar
Bruce - Keys/Bass
Mike

(and John Stamos  ;D ) Drums....

sit down together and do something together....... even without instruments, and do some accapella stuff....

That's what I would kill for!

They are still the freakin' Beach Boys, I don't believe they cant do great ShitE between the remaining members....

its probably actually what a lot of us here want!... No???

RickB

Exactly. It's not like it's band like Roxy Music...post 2001, so many people on stage that one might be fooled into thinking they're watching a philharmonic orchestra rather than a rock band. And don't get me started on the female backup singers, which every British band of a certain vintage added (especially daft in Roxy's case, as there were no backup vocals on the albums to begin with).

But I digress.

I agree and disagree with the "what's the point?" sentiment, depending on what the thread is actually about.

If it's a for-fun exercise--i.e., the stuff of message boards--simply asking the question with no consequences or judgments, but just that question--could they do a passable version of a show with no extraneous players?--then my answer as previously said in the thread is basically no, not in a truly viable, high-quality way. The instrumental performances would be rudimentary and the voices would be strained, rough around the edges, and incapable of the beautiful high tenors that their catalog is largely built on (be it for leads or backgrounds).

But if the question is whether it matters whether the answer to the above is yes or no, whether the experience of a show with someone other than the core band participating is somehow diminished (even if the quality of the show were diminished as well), then I don't think it matters. Music is the thing one hears. All the rest--back story, nostalgia, personally relevant or meaningful experiences--might matter to anyone, but not to everyone. They color one's own experience. The music is just the music. If it takes different or more (or less) people to make, then that's fine. It's actually why I have for years held the unpopular position in favor of the Wilson band's non-Brian members taking more leads, not less. I'll take Darian on Darlin' any day over Brian, for example. The band themselves understood this from very early days, which is why they brought in musicians to supplement both studio and (a few years later) live performances: presenting the music is what matters most.

Just my twaddle.

Forget it. Alan will never bother to learn the chords to "That's Why God Made The Radio". ;D

Not possible. When was the last time you heard Brian perform an entire song at the piano, just by himself? 1991? Having said that, the one C50 show attended was great in that you heard the core members+Jeff throughout. Most of the time, it was impossible to tell what part Darian or Probyn or Scott were singing. Probably doubling, at a much lower volume. The blend that those four plus a competent falsettist like Jeff were able to produce is still extraordinary. THAT is what you pay to see at a reunion show.

Is there a recording of that C50 show?

I'm sure it was the same in most if not all of the shows. Mine was NO Jazz Fest

1996, I think. NAS.

Does "Beautiful Dreamer" count?

Didn't read the entire thread, so I apologize if someone beat me to this point, but:  Put Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and Dave onstage together, then bring Carl Wilson back to life and put him right out front…and, yeah, they could perform live.

Shouldn't be THAT hard! ::)

This is probably the closest we will ever get:
Help Me, Rhonda  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTQT4QePU8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTQT4QePU8)
I Get Around  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGbh9oQ5b8w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGbh9oQ5b8w)
From the Grammy Museum- Brian, Mike, Al, David unplugged and augmented vocally by Jeff and Scott.

Especially IGA really rocks! Visually though it looks like "Live from their old people's home, THE BEACH BOYS!" :-D

BTW, I could easily imagine the five them doing "Surfin'" all on their own, with Dave on guitar, Al on stand-up bass and Brian not singing but on snare drum. :)