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http://ultimateclassicrock.com/jeff-beck-brian-wilson-not-right/ (http://ultimateclassicrock.com/jeff-beck-brian-wilson-not-right/)

New story but nothing that really surprises me.

Sounds like plain ol' Brian to me.

A typical odd pairing that ended in the only possible way. The thing is that something's not quite right or normal with Brian, and he won't fake it-- not even on stage.

The only thing I learn from this piece is that mr Beck isn't the greatest diplomat in the world - he could have phrased it otherwise.

And the picture is an ill-chosen one.

 :lol but I like that Mr Beck was not overly diplomatic about it.

I don't actually know a lot about Jeff Beck and how he behaves to know if he's a straight shooter or otherwise.

Substitute Brian's name with "Mike Love" and the story suddenly seems rather funny.

When it comes to social interaction BW's probably been a bit of a strange guy for several decades. Some of these stories seem really awkward, sometimes to the point where they may sound a little disturbing. But then it's probably part of what makes him so utterly fascinating, I don't know.

  Beck isn't exactly presenting a scoop to the world. Moreover Jeff is well known for not always working and playing well with others. I liked his guitar driven "Surf's Up" and look forward to his contribution to the new album.

 ;D

Thanks, Andrew for that.  So glad that Danny Boy is included. One would weep for its beauty, with
Beck's brilliant delivery.  "Noodling?" Seriously? I don't think so.

“Brian never said a word. It was the most bizarre thing. I don’t know what’s going on with Brian, but perhaps it’s best left alone, not mention too much about that. Perhaps he’s so cool, he never speaks to anybody. [Laughs.]”

Beck later spent five weeks on the road with Wilson, only to run into him at a favorite deli — one that the former Beach Boys star frequents several times a day. “Sure enough,” Beck says, “within five minutes, he walked in. And on the way out, I said, ‘Hello, Brian,’ he said, ‘Hi!’ And he walked straight past me. [Laughs.] It was like I never existed, we had never toured for five weeks. There’s something not quite right.”


I think for the average person, that would be a very odd way to act towards someone you invite to play on your album and to tour with you. Even knowing how anti-social Brian can be, I'd still expect to have some sort of interaction with him if I went into the recording studio and toured with him. Whether it be about music, ice cream, whatever.

Perhaps Brian was aware of Jeff's earlier comments regarding him and that's why he chose to not really acknowledge him in the deli?

That's probably it, BW doesn't take disrespect from fools like Jeff Beck.

Doubt it.  Sounds like Brian didn't even acknowledge Beck when they were touring together. 

Interesting if Danny Boy is included. As a teacher, I have been forced to listen to this song far too many times at recitals and school concerts to ever want to hear it again but doubtless they can put their own spin on it.

The stories about Brian are not really a surprise. Rather tame in comparison with the old tales of farting in Marie Osmond`s face or sitting on the studio floor with his c*ck out.

If Beck doesn't know "what's wrong with Brian" then he just hasn't been paying attention.  Seriously. He needs to get over it.

Jeff seems to be stalking Brian, maybe to get back in the sessions... ;D  He just "happened" to go to the neighborhood deli that he knew Brian went to several times a day?  It's right and normal for Brian.  Maybe Brian was taken aback, "What's that guy doing here?"

I can't say that anything about Brian's behavior particularly surprises me.  The one piece of new information (if it is, in fact, correct) is that Beck will be featured on the new album in the form of guitar parts he had no intention of putting on the final album.  It's always hard to say whether that's accurate or if he's just saying it because he has a bone to pick with Brian and co, but if it is true it's concerning.

Beck's observations about Brian are probably accurate and nothing new. He should have known or been told what he was getting into. As for studio work, I think that's Beck's idiosyncrasies more than Brian's. As others have mentioned, he has as different approach in the studio. He did a whole "guitar concerto" with McCartney that never came out. It's a bummer though, the description of his work with Brian sounded really interesting. Now, I would imagine Brian's camp will get all butthurt and we'll never hear most of the stuff. I say Brian should put the stuff out anyway at some point.

Popular machine-gun-fingered jazz fusion Buddhist John McLaughlin tells a similar story about his playing on "In A Silent Way" from Miles Davis's album of the same name: he thought it was just a rehearsal, didn't realise that the tape was running and so delivered what he considered to be a really hesitant, tentative performance.  It turns out that this was exactly what Miles wanted and so it was used in this form on the album.  And it is a thing of quite marvellous shimmering brilliance.

Get over it, Beck...

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ryan-Reynolds-Head-Roll.gif)

Jeff Beck can go get stuffed.

Jeff is known to be a fairly bitter and unpleasent individual. Combine that with Brian's desire to just be left alone, you have a combo made in hell.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find it intensely peculiar that Jeff claims Brian never talked to him, and yet his new stories are about the the times that Brian actually did talk to him.

And imagine that -- the one Beck track that Brian expressed enthusiasm for just happens to be the one that's on the album. Someone is getting what he wants out of this project.

Take Beck's comments with a grain of salt. Actually, take them with a heaping pile of salt, because he's only telling a very small portion of what he could be discussing about his touring and working with Brian Wilson.

From all reports...that's Brian. Simple as that. If Beck was looking for something more tuned into a mythology of a notorious party-ready rock star, he'd naturally be disappointed. Because that isn't Brian and hasn't been Brian for a long time. If ever.

Now Beck is on tour with ZZ Top. Apart from Beck's obligatory 15 minute long blues free-for-all jams on songs like "Going Down" and trading licks on "La Grange", I wonder first if Beck is doing a similar jazz-fusion set like he did on the BW tour, and second how the crowds who go to see ZZ Top's brand of music are responding to it.

Keep this in mind: Those who saw the tour can chime in anytime...would it have been too much to ask for Beck to do at least one or two Yardbirds tunes, or even something more recognizable to the audience than the sets he played on the BW tour?

So whose idea was it to bring in Beck in the first place? 

I'm thinking that since Brian has been claiming for years that he want to put out a rock and roll album, the thought may have been, "Hey, let's bring in legendary guitarist Jeff Beck!  That'll get the ball rolling!" 

And when very little happened as far as Brain and Beck collaborating in the studio, the thought may have been, "OK, let's cut our losses as far as the studio is concerned and put Brian and Beck out on tour, allowing Beck to get at least some financial gain for his time."  Or maybe the thinking was, "OK let's put Brian and Beck out on tour and maybe that environment will get the collaboration going."

Let it be known that Jeff Beck wasn’t exactly personality plus behind the scenes of that tour, either. I gotta say, I thought his solo set during those shows was ridiculous. A boring chunk of garbage in the middle of heaven. Truly, I don’t understand how anybody walked away from those concerts NOT saying: “That was literally 50 minutes of the worst, out-dated, instantly forgettable, '80s incidental chase scene music." To be placed in the MIDDLE -- not an opening act -- but the CENTER of that show (as if he's a PEER, e.g. Paul Simon) was, like, death. The original intent was to have him, Brian, and the whole ensemble team up for some Yardbirds hits -- which quickly went out of the window.

Taking into account the fact that he’s gotten a ton of press from being linked to Brian Wilson — which led to his “co-headling” tour with ZZ Top (which will no doubt leave THEIR fans scratching their heads, and drinking in the lobby, like I was after the first time sitting through Beck's set); talking like this about Brian -- for the second time, mind you -- is an unprofessional, pig move. I’d wipe his stuff off the LP, if it’s even still on.

Such a "lifelong fan" of Brian's (as he's professed) and he doesn't know Brian's deal?

Bad form. Lousy music. Absurd Klute hair. Dresses like Star Wars (at 70).
Glad he's not comin' back.

Wow! Not a lot more to say really is there?

If Jeff Beck feels this way then let him speak. What he is saying is pretty trivial really.

I don`t think he got any more press from the tour than Brian did and it seemed from many reviews that a lot of the crowd were there to see him and not Brian.

I'd say this pretty much sums it up. Not sure what angle Jeff Beck is trying to play here.

I couldn't agree more, Howie. I was bored to tears during Jeff's set, it was literally one boring instrumental after the other for almost an hour.
It would have been so much more enjoyable if that Yardbirds plan had gone through.

Yeah, Nicko, those reporters weren't lying. People were going ape s hit over Beck's set.

At the first show I attended, I brought a BB and Beck connoisseur. 10 minutes into his set, I turned to him and said, "Is this awful, or is it just me?"
He only said two things: "This is horrible music. It makes Jan Hammer seem like Debussy" and a bit later, "Why does he keep throwing his arms up in victory like a gladiator?"

I was honestly blown away by Jeff Beck's set at The Greek. I was seriously really into it. But it might have been the (strong) pot brownie talking.

Having a bad day Howie? Jeez...

I agree completely Nicko.

Jeff Beck is sitting down for interviews and being asked about this tour with Brian Wilson and he's giving honest answers. Where's the problem?

I was at the Hollywood, FL show and I can tell you by passing conversations and what t shirts people were wearing, there were more Jeff Beck fans there then Brian Wilson fans. I had never heard Jeff Beck prior to the show and I left interested enough to dive deeper into his music. I'd consider myself a fan now. Some of his music can be a bit cheesy but you could say that about The Beach Boys as well.

Who the hell cares who was there for who and if you we're at the gig you couldn't know for a fact.


Jeff couldn't sell out the beacon by himself let alone play the venues he played with Brian by himself. Brian isn't the biggest draw in the world but he played those venues before and could easily put a decent amount of people in those seats solo. He was nice enough to bring Jeff along (or at least just give it the ok) and what does he get in return? Jeff going to the press bad mouthing him, airing sh*t in public that doesn't need to be aired.

It's complete bullshit and Jeff is living up to the comments Jimmy Page and a few others have made about him in the past.

Not surprised to see the names on here supporting Jeff's comments.

I saw the Beacon show and do have to admit that Jeff Beck got the most sustained, robust applause of the two acts.

That said, my feelings about Jeff Beck's set were pretty close to Howie's -- and if not for the promise of the Brian-et-al collaborations at the very end on Our Prayer, Surf's Up and Danny Boy (which I actually thought were quite lovely, and went a long way toward justifying teaming two such different acts on the same bill), my wife and I would certainly have left halfway through.

I'm a much bigger fan of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys than Jeff Beck. My problem is that I don't see why there is such a huge backlash about Jeff's feelings on the situation. Many of the board members here have posted much more hateful things towards other Beach Boys and each other on here. Then there is the thread about ESQ with people stating that they want interviews that warrant more than the typical "read off a cue card" sort of answer. Clearly some of the people can't handle interviewees giving honest answers with a little punch unless it agrees with their own stance.

The simple fact is it doesn't need to be said. Jeff doesn't need to be saying anything about Brian's mental situation, especially if he has any idea about Brian's troubled history. A simple "we toured together, he wasn't the most talkative guy" would have done just fine.

In my opinion what he said is basically slander.

Doesn't matter to me who came to hear Brain vs who came to hear Beck. The problem is the man's total lack of tact and diplomacy in the interviews. Surely he's knows Brian's history. He doesn't have to bring it up in every interview.

Sure, interviewers are going to ask questions, but a classy reply would be something along the lines of, "Brian and I play completely different styles of music. We did something unique and experimental with that tour. Maybe it was a success maybe not. We didn't socialize much, but I understand that Brian's a private person. I appreciated the chance to play on his album and I hope some of the work we did together makes the final cut."

Instead, he seems bent on making sure everyone knows that Brian's "not right," implies that he's incapable of making an album and basically should be shut up in his room at home.   It's just classless and uncouth.

I agree that the "There’s something not quite right." remark at the end was not needed. I agree. Other than that remark, I don't see anything wrong with that little write up Andrew posted a link to. Jeff just mentioned a few specific things that made the pairing odd. I think if he had just answered every question with, "it just didn't work out as well as hoped", fans would be wanting to know why and would be asking for examples of why he felt this way. I know I would. Again, I agree he could be honest and leave out some remarks he makes. The same could be said for a lot of people though.

Lee --

I'm glad you found Jeff Beck.
(I'm actually having a really nice day. Writers are able to comment objectively without it being a reflection on themselves. Bad reviews aren't always written by unhappy people. AGD said: "Discuss" -- so, I did.)

I think that music was horrible and inappropriate for inclusion in any part -- especially the centerpiece -- of a Brian Wilson show featuring Alan Jardine, David Marks, and Blondie Chaplin. I couldn't help counting what they WEREN'T performing to allow space for all those 3:00 a.m. empty highway speedin' instrumental Jeff Beck "hits."

My point is that Jeff Beck benefited from using Brian. Got solid heavy press because of Brian (in comparison to his Ronnie Scott's and Iridium projects) and he went on to shi t on him personally and professionally twice. Not booking another leg or a second tour with Brian says plenty.

It's one thing to have a beef with "Brian" (his issues, or his management, or what you got paid, or how it was billed -- or ANY of those things) but don't do press before and during selling what he's since "revealed" is bull sh it -- which is exactly he did. When it came time to sell tickets, whaddya know -- "BRIAN'S BACK!" Their photo-ops came after his realization that Brian wasn't "all there" or "in need of help" -- or perhaps didn't actually compose the music he contributed to in the studio.

There are more respectful and professional ways to answer the question of "How was it working with Brian Wilson?" than he chose to do. It's a d ick move.
And as new Jeff Beck fan, you'll soon find out that he has a long reputation for doing stuff like this that alienates musicians from wanting to work with him and friends who want to keep him on their speed dial.

This has to be one of the most one-eyed stances I have yet seen on the board.

`Jeff Beck benefited from using Brian`???

`...a Brian Wilson show...`???

Jeff Beck`s career wasn`t exactly dead in the water before last year`s tour...

Jeff Beck was never a candidate for the Diplomatic Corps.

Couple things.

1. I don't think Beck means any malice with any of these comments.  Essentially he's just laughing about how weird the situation is, nothing wrong with that.  He doesn't seem offended, he's just saying "That's the craziest thing!" basically.

2. He's probably just as weird as Brian is.

3. I know several people that are just as weird, or MORE weird than Brian Wilson.  I know this 1 guy, that collects VHS tapes.  He has 100,000 of them.  I know another guy who does maintenance at the church across the street, he has 7 trucks and drives a different one each day of the week, the same day, each week.  I used to know a woman who dressed up like a nun every once in awhile, for no particular reason.  I know another guy who's a Vegan.  


Point being, Brian's not hurting anybody so good for him for being weird.  If Jeff Beck can wear that ridiculous haircut Brian can do what he wants just the same.

What Beck is heavily hinting at goes way beyond merely weird and lovably eccentric: he's stated in print that Brian needs help, and that's pretty disrespectful to both Brian and those around him.

No he didn't.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/jeff-beck-on-going-note-for-note-with-zz-top-and-a-naughty-brian-wilson-track-20140815?page=3

In earlier interviews on the subject, Beck was quoted as saying "He doesn’t speak. He’s clearly in need of attention. But that’s just my opinion.”

He does say "but perhaps it's best left alone" which is probably him displaying slight regret over that comment.

As AGD said, Jeff Beck has never been the most diplomatic sort of person. Perhaps, and this is possible, Jeff beck doesn't know as much about Brian Wilson's personal history as we do. Perhaps he's read the rumours in somewhere like MOJO of Brian being a quirky recluse or an eccentric genius, but knows no more than the quick soundbite. Perhaps Jeff Beck doesn't know much about dealing sensitively with people with mental health issues.

A Jeff Beck/Brian Wilson joint tour was never really going to appeal to the same audience, especially if there wasn't much onstage interaction.

A few sessions in the studio was worth trying but it didn't gel. Nothing wrong with that in itself.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/do8i2v.jpg)

A picture of Brian not speaking with Beck at a session.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIBxajdCIAA7hvo.jpg:large)

A picture of Brian disengaged and appearing asleep during a session.

I think teaming up BW with other "big names" has never been a good idea. McCartney, Clapton, Elton John, Dylan... all the stuff he did with those guys sounds really awkward. Maybe he's just not comfortable around the "big rock star" types, notwithstanding his admiration for some of their music.

Nice!

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbce2pDxG71qh95r3.gif)

I'm not being an arse for the sake of it but seriously, have you ever seen a more staged 'candid' photo ? No movement whatsoever.

Excerpt from an upcoming Jeff Beck interview:


"He didn't even talk to me when we took promotional photos for his Facebook page. It was very weird. His people told me he would be pointing at me and I could shrug or whatever. We took that photo and Brian left the studio immediately after that. He needs help, seriously. I think there was another picture where he's like Phew, what a musician! and I'm standing next to him, miming chords. Brian had one of his muscled handlers there, pretending to write something down, so I wouldn't engage in conversation. There's something wrong with him."

 ;D

(http://i48.tinypic.com/do8i2v.jpg)


Brian: "And I'd appreciate it if you stopped going to my deli"

I blame whoever it was that had the idea of mashing these two together in the first place.  Imo this sounded like a terrible idea from the get-go.

Perhaps Brian's behavior is the reason Mike didn't want to continue to tour with him.

Jeff sounds to me like a jilted lover.  He was excited about working with a musical idol of his and assumed or hoped they would hang out together, collaborate (which requires communication) in the studio and perhaps on songwriting, he would get to "know" Brian.  And of course none of that happened, and Jeff is a little bitter.

BTW what is the deli he mentions in Benedict Canyon?  I may want to go hang out there for a day on my next visit to L.A.

And wants to spend more time alone with him in a room?

😄

(http://i48.tinypic.com/do8i2v.jpg)


Brian: "Jeez, you're 70, man, and you dye your hair. You need help."

I'm not sure why people are saying that Jeff Beck exploited Brian for publicity purposes by doing that tour.  If anything, Brian was exploiting Jeff Beck for publicity purposes. Brian's management were the ones who arranged the tour, not Jeff Beck. Jeff also has toured the same size halls on his own, within the past few years. It's absolutely not true that Jeff plays smaller halls than Brian and only wanted to tour with him to get into bigger venues. He plays medium sized venues of the type that Brian usually plays.  He does not exclusively play places like Ronnie Scott's and the Iridium (and you probably know that already).

I don't get what the big deal is about what Jeff said. Journalists are asking him questions about his work with Brian, he's not the one bringing it up out of nowhere. He's being honest and as most admit, what Jeff is saying is no surprise about Brian's demeanor.  As far as what Jeff said about Brian's management throwing them out on tour before Brian finished his album, with or without Jeff, he has a good point.  Brian's management made a mistake. If they hadn't hastily done the Beck tour just last fall, they would find it easier to arrange a tour now when Brian actually may have an album to promote. As it is, they risk drawing smaller audiences if they attempt to repeat the markets they played with Beck just last year.

Why not ask Jean Sievers some questions about how it is that she decided to pair Brian with Beck, and why they took Brian on tour when he was in the middle of making an album, instead of waiting until the album was finished and he could use the promotion?

Jeff drank the last glass of wheatgrass juice, and Brian never forgave him. A cut and dry synopsis.

Nobody got exploited in that scenario..

(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-DZ002267.jpg?size=67&uid=c66c2da1-3475-46aa-9678-e177bee2418c)

 ;D

:lol

Honestly if you're a brian wilson fan and you find nothing wrong with that jeff back said, well then that's your problem.

‍

I don't see any problem in finding nothing wrong with something. Seems that by definition, the problem is with those who, well, have a problem. I'm a fan of Brian Wilson's music. Jeff Beck basically said Brian doesn't talk much and is kind of odd. (Oh my gawd, the shock!) I still am a fan of Brian Wilson's music. Nothing changed, and no problems here.

Now if I were Brian's babysitter and was worried that people saying mean things about him might set him over the edge or something, maybe then I'd have a problem. Luckily I have no such responsibilities.

Seriously, this is all such a non-issue.

Rock Legend Gossips About Other Rock Legend.
Both remain rich with legacies intact; fans scurry to weigh in.

I agree. People get so upset about something that doesn't really matter. Why does anyone care what this guy says? It's not like it really matters.

This may sound like a crazy thought but here goes...

..maybe Brian just doesn't like Jeff personally. If I ran into someone I didn't like at the deli and they gave me a "hello" I'd mutter a feeble "hello" back and get the heck out of there.

Jeff's probably right in that someone in Brian's camp came up with the idea of pairing these two guys together and just booked a tour to capitalize on the novelty of the odd pairing. What Jeff doesn't seem to understand is that Brian doesn't like him, doesn't have anything in common with him musically and would rather not pal around with him...

So to clear it up for Jeff: Brian doesn't like you.

End of story.  

Still from the "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" video, ergo... not staged. Not good... but not staged. ;D

I bet that has a lot to do with it

Pretty good description of their session/ sessions described in this story from last year.



By all accounts, their first recording session this summer was awkward, with Beck confused by Wilson's timid demeanor and Wilson too awestruck by the guitarist to speak. Told Beck had admitted to being intimidated by him, Wilson counters that the feeling was mutual.

"I was intimidated to record with him, too," he says, his voice leaping. "But we both got over it and got busy."

Thomas says he, too, was anxious that first day in the studio, though he offers that Beck and Wilson make a more natural partnership than their respective fans may believe, and describes the songs they recorded as "fusion jazz rock with Brian singing, 'oohs' and 'aahs.' "

"It was two guys who shared a lot of mutual respect for each other, a ton. They were equally as reverent and equally as nervous. We were all nervous. You're working with one legend and another one comes in, that doesn't always go well," he recalls.

"I think that Jeff was amazed that Brian wouldn't say a lot, but when he would say something, it was right on. He'd have his eyes closed, and he'd be listening, and I could see that Jeff would look over at Brian and go, 'Is he listening or is he sleeping?' And Jeff would maybe pull a string a little sharp or something, and Brian would go, 'Hey, you got a better one in you, Jeff. That one was a little sharp.' And Jeff would go, 'Well, OK, of course he's listening. This is the way he does it.' "


http://www.southflorida.com/music/sf-brian-wilson-jeff-beck-hollywood-tour-092713-20130924,0,3220234.story

Since mine got lost at the bottom of page 1, and Howie and I are saying basically the same thing, making the same points in slightly different ways, please read both of 'em...and consider what's being said - both said outright and suggested.

There is more to the story, I'm sure.

The reason why Brian and Jeff Beck started working together, both studio and live, is a very, very simple one. This answer is for KittyKat and the others who asked:

Brian heard Jeff Beck play his instrumental version of Surf's Up at a benefit concert, and it floored him, blew him away. He liked the way Jeff played guitar, and interpreted the song. So when the opportunity came up for them to join musical forces, not only was Jeff Beck a Beach Boys fan from the 60's but he also wanted to try it. And Brian wanted to try it too having been blown away by Jeff's interpretation of his song. So arrangements were made for them to join up.

Simple. As. That.

If I'm wrong on any of that history, please correct.  ;)

So it didn't work out...that's life, tough sh*t. Too bad it didn't work for either party, but that's what happened. It also happens to everyone in music on a daily basis. Some pairings, some duets, some gigs in general just don't pan out no matter how much the artist wants them too. Again, "T.S." Move ahead.

But it's not cool to see the back and forth through Beck's comments.

Again, has Brian said anything negative in public about Jeff Beck? I'm sure he probably could, but as far as I know he has not.

Regarding the shows: I said my peace, as did Howie regarding the lack of Yardbirds and other material.

Try this one on for size...

Would it have been out of bounds to expect Jeff Beck to do some Beach Boys songs with the three original members on stage?

Beck is a known car collector and vintage auto enthusiast who enjoys wrenching on his own rides in his free time.

How cool would it have been to have included a version of the Beach Boys "car medley" that has been played live since the 60's? 409, Shut Down, Little Deuce Coupe...etc. Have Beck ripping it up on guitar, Brian singing, Al and Dave playing and singing the same parts they had done in '63.

Rock and Roll fantasy for some, right there.

Maybe someone in an interview should or could ask Beck, Brian, Al, or Dave whether something like this was ever considered and why it was not done on stage.

Because Beck-cars-Beach Boys-car songs...seems a no-brainer.

Just food for thought.  :)

Jeff must have really big thumbs if there's no movement in that photo! :-D

Are Beck's comments any worse than the stories about Brian's weirdness which people have dined out on for years?  For example, Brian tried to put his head in a sandwich in a restaurant or stop his kids' school bus to ask the driver for a cigarette!

I think some people need a little perspective here.  The reason Brian hasn't said anything negative about Beck is maybe because he hasn't given an interview since the tour ended.  Or, he hasn't been asked or couldn't remember or...

Brian is Brian, Jeff has been asked questions about the tour situation and has made some valid points, but yes should have been a bit more diplomatic about Brian's state of mind.  The story in the deli is also something that is pure Brian. :-D

My perspective is crystal clear, technicolor, and straightforward, through two posts and two posts only in this thread (not including this one  :-D ).  Can't speak for others.  ;)

Are the points valid? Or is there more to it?

Beck also has all but blamed having to do "meet and greet" events on this BW-Beck tour which deprived him of his afternoon naps with contributing to whatever it was that had him in the hospital a few months ago.

Valid as well?  :)

Ok...In hindsight, pretty much anything from the C50. :lol

(http://www.grammy.com/files/styles/news_photos/public/news/152337628.jpg?itok=vJiL_kyb)

The point I was making about perspective is that Beck's comments are not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  Most of the public who read the comments will have heard it all before in various magazines etc through the years.  This doesn't make it right but when Brian's family and friends have said worse over the years why should Beck cop so much flak?  In the latest interview he seems quite jovial about the whole thing (Eric Clapton also told a similar story to the Deli one about how Brian pretty much snubbed him (not intentionally) but as if they had never met.  Brian just isn't comfortable in those situations (hiding when McCartney visited him in the 70s).

As for the reason Brian wanted to tour with Beck being He liked "Surf's Up" from a tribute concert 12 years ago I doubt it.  More like management wanted some publicity and felt he could do an album with a 'cool' peer so they could cash in.  It was probably 'put' to Brian it would be a good idea.  The need to tour quickly was probably also to make some bucks when the iron was still hot.  I think the whole meet and greet thing sums a lot of that up.  And Beck, rightly IMHO, wasn't too comfortable with it.

I thought that Brian and Beck met up again at a Vegas rock fantasy camp not long before the album work and tour. That meet up was the impetus that threw them together. I assume it was the fantasy camp director who just happened to put them in the same class.  I wonder how verbal Brian was with the fantasy campers or Beck himself. Maybe it was the variability of Brian's personality that Beck couldn't understand.

Jeff might think he's trying to "save" Brian by making his situation public. Perhaps he is saying these things out of compassion, but he obviously does not understand it's somplicated. That's why I can't get that offended. I think he means well. He just has a lack of tact.

Its the 'Love thang' bump and grind look!

What stories are these? I've never hard of them...is there a place or book I can read it?

The Wilson Project by Stephen McParland.

You can doubt what you want, you can remove any notion that Brian and Beck mutually wanted to play music together out of their own free will and attribute to another case of 'Brian's people' (whoever they are) nudging him into something they wanted him to do, and also bring up a meeting with McCartney from 4 decades ago, and then suggest whatever motives you're assuming to be the backbone of this are actually the truth.

But that doesn't mean it's so.  ;)

The seeds were originally planted when Brian heard Beck play Surf's Up...period, end of story. Believe it or not.

Do you have any information on how Brian's meetings with McCartney went in the last...oh...decade or so have gone? I know Paul and Brian have met at various shows, in fact there was the one where McCartney sang God Only Knows on stage with him and described it in an interview as a musical highlight for him.  I'd like to hear more about any of those meetings if something that happened in the 70's is going to be brought up in this topic. Any info to share?

The meet-and-greet thing regarding Beck's missed afternoon naps...take it for what it's worth. I wonder if he's getting enough nap time these days on the ZZ Top tour.

Hey, if some guy kept blabbing to everyone that something was "wrong" with me, I'd ignore him at the deli, too.

:lol

This speaks to what I said before. Brian likes Paul. He gets along with Paul. While they aren't "friends" they do have a lot in common musically. It only makes sense that he and McCartney would be cordial and friendly (forget what Brian did in the 70's when he was at his lowest point. That has no relevance in 2014).

From what I can tell based on these articles: Brian simply doesn't care for Jeff Beck. True, he may have loved his performance at the tribute and said "Hey, I wanna work with this guy" but then after they spent some time together, Brian cooled on the guy.

If that's the case (and I have a feeling it is) it's no big deal. Life happens. Jeff Beck blabbing to the press about it makes him seem like a jilted lover moaning about how the girl he was crazy about didn't reciprocate his feelings. "She doesn't like me...there must be something wrong with her!". No dude, she just doesn't like you.  

Anyone on earth who knows that 'pet sounds' is a pop album released in 1966 is sure to have read or heard way worse rumours and stories about Brian's weirdness than those disclosed in jeff beck's interviews. It's nothing new.

On the other hand jeff's comments are very impolite. Whatever he thinks about Brian it's not like Brian will recover or get better at the age of 72 years old. That's where he is now in 2014, if you don't like it, don't hang out or tour with him.

But you know, Jeff's probably as weird as Brian, but he manages to keep it private. yeah, everyone knows he's a bit of an ass and a bit of a misanthrope, but I don't know anything about his private life, I don't know if he prefers girls, boys or cars, if he's been married, if he's got children. When you're an ass it's a good thing that folks don't know basically anything about you to throw stones.  :)

Jeff has been married six times.  :o

Well. Maybe the photo wasn't staged. But the circumstances leading to the photo sure were. I have a feeling that the three ladies with Mike (and the one right in front of him especially) wouldn't have minded being about a million miles away from that dirty old man at that moment.

First two words that popped into my head after seeing that photo... 'human centipede'

Nine.

Yeah, it was the 2005 tribute,  the one that had the Chili Peppers.  The 2001 was the one you're thinking of, mikeddon.

So thank God at least he didn't collaborate with the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

I actually think that'd be pretty ace.

I saw this article and didn't bother to post the link anywhere. I'm all for honesty but if you seriously believe that someone needs help surely you don't make comments of this kind to a journalist?

Just Jeff Beck's way perhaps - I don't know enough about his character to pass comment.

Nah. Mike was a dirty middle aged man at the time. Now he is a dirty old man.  :)

Al could hook him up. :-D

(http://oi62.tinypic.com/n2g4li.jpg)

I think this Beck thing is just a case of what happens when you stick two guys together that are very, very different, and I’m not even talking particularly musically.

Beck is temperamental. He doesn’t seem to go in for showbiz niceties and all of that. He’s a private guy as well, which probably made the meet-and-greet VIP thing from the tour a particular annoyance for him. A friend of mine is a *huge* Beck fan, and also coincidentally share’s Beck’s interest in old cars. Back in the 80’s or 90’s, he spotted Beck at a local car show, and since he already had his camera with him, he started snapping some pics of Beck. From afar. Not obtrusively particularly, and never said a word to him or got any closer than probably 30 feet. Snapped a few photos. Beck gave him a look (hilariously captured in photograph from) like he wanted to kill him. Now, there’s a debate to be had about whether even this was obtrusive and whatnot. But the takeaway from this and other events (he has seen Beck at several car shows, and Beck clearly wants to be left alone) is that he’s a cranky, private guy. He’s also blunt.

This does not bode well for great interpersonal interactions with Brian Wilson. To everybody’s credit, it sounds like they *didn’t* treat the situation with extra kid gloves and brief everyone on how to act and what to say and have a bunch of go-betweens and handlers. It looks like they just stuck Beck in there. The result was some awkwardness. I also think, much like Mike Love’s post-C50 comments about the “TWGMTR” album, the story of how disagreeable the situation was changed some time after it occurred. Months and even years later, the story changes from polite positive comments to “oh my God, it was so weird and awful.”

As for Beck’s career, I think he has had his built-in fanbase for years. It was pretty darn 50/50 in terms of fanbase at the show I went to in Oakland last year. Beck’s guitar playing is amazing and unique. Most of his material is rather tedious, especially the way he presents it in concert. If you’re not into serious guitar wankery, the show is pretty much background music. I didn’t feel worse off for having seen his show. I also am still guessing that some of the stuff he cut with Brian in the studio could sound amazing. It sucks that it may well be Beck’s own bad attitude that is the main factor in the material largely not being heard.

The most frustrating part of Beck’s comments to me are not his negative bits about Brian, but his passive stance on having done the tour with Brian. He acts like someone made him do the tour. He may well be right that it would have been a better idea to finish recording before touring. But he signed on for the tour. He agreed to the VIP packages. He agreed to whatever dictated he had be at the gig by a certain time to shake hands and take pictures. If he thought it was such a bad idea, he could have passed.

Not on topic but let me digress for a minute:

The Chili Peppers are an enigma, and also one of the more misunderstood bands of the past 20-30 years, a lot of it their own fault. IMO...in large part due to John Frusciante, they got into the art of crafting and creating songs in the studio, the whole art of using and shaping sounds and musical techniques to create studio art, also getting into the art of songwriting and arranging in those songs. It wasn't the funk and slap-happy Peppers of the 80's. They lost some early fans, but they developed what I think was a terrific sound with solid songwriting...then Frusciante left again.

The photo of them with Al is Frusciante's replacement Josh Klinghofer. He and Frusciante were close friends and had collaborated on a number of solo projects together, so Josh was a natural choice.

But it's damn near impossible to replace someone who brought as much to the musical table as a John Frusciante. I haven't listened to them as much if at all after John left.

Compare it to the Beach Boys in 1966 if Brian Wilson had simply quit and left. You have the elements of the band still there, they can do the live shows, but that one major piece of the band especially in songwriting and studio production (and vibe) is out of the process. It's just not the same, IMO.

John Frusciante is one of the most unique, talented, knowledgeable, and challenging musicians of the past 20 years. Anyone who wants to investigate more, look him up on YouTube and online and you'll either buy into it full-force as I did or simply say it's not for me. But it's worth checking out.

And Frusciante is a fan of Brian Wilson, of Smile, and you can hear it on specific Chili Peppers tracks through his vocal stacks and other neat touches.

Great story I've told at least half a dozen times but will paraphrase here again.

John Frusciante and I believe it was Josh Klinghofer had booked studio time in the early 2000's, I believe it was Cello (formerly Western), and they heard Brian Wilson would be coming in that day to work. It turned out Brian had the room next to them. John and Josh stopped what they were doing and tried to find a spot where they could listen in on what Brian was doing, and were amazed they were listening in to Brian Wilson working in that studio of all places. Hearing the story I almost wish they had made some kind of approach or introduction to see if they could actually sit in the control room or something, but that would have been unprofessional...but still the sight of these two acting like pure fans trying to lean into the wall to hear Brian's music is a pretty cool image, I'd do exactly the same thing!  :)

I've been pushing for a John Frusciante - Brian Wilson meeting/collaboration for years. If he were still in the Peppers, I'd say go for it. How many musicians greet an interviewer at his place with a Smile bootleg playing in the background as John did?  ;D

Sorry for the off-topic...

It's funny - I could never get into the Peppers, but I'm a fan of solo Frusciante. I'm not too familiar with the extent of the Peppers catalogue's artistry, but maybe it's a case similar to Dennis' solo efforts compared to the BBs sound? I could be wrong, though.. like I said, the Peppers never really interested me.

It's tough to draw a parallel because John's influences are literally all over the map, and vary depending on what he's working on at the moment. But with the Peppers, check out the album By The Way. This was done when John seemed to be in his Beach Boys/Brian Wilson influence phase, and a lot of attention was given to vocals and vocal arrangements and harmonies that had not been as prominently featured on earlier Peppers albums.

The backstory on these kinds of things can reel you in...In this case, By The Way was John's 2nd album after returning to the band with Californication. You still hear a wide range of influences familiar to the band, but the vocal harmonies and songwriting really sound like John was the driving force on a lot of this record.

They recorded the tracks at Western, then called Cello...does that trigger anything with BB/BW fans?  ;D  No accident.

Then, John Frusciante, Rick Rubin, and Anthony Keidis took the tracks to where John was staying at the Chateau Marmont. John had ideas on how to arrange and stack the vocal harmonies, and he and Rubin began overdubbing John's voice much like BW would have done in the 60's. Then if one report is correct, John and Rubin drove Keidis pretty hard to get his vocals just right, getting them on pitch and with more of a melodic rather than rhythmic delivery and everything, and also had all but coached him on how to add harmonies to the stack, although most of the vocal backgrounds are still John's overdubs.

And the full album is not everyone's taste, but you hear where John was in his Beach Boys phase at this time on a track like "Tear", which I'm posting a link here to check out.

The point being...John brought these production, writing, and arranging ideas into this band, and if you play any of their albums from the 80's, and play their most recent album you'll hear some of what he brought into the band's sound, not just as a guitarist. And you hear what is missing when he's not there.

Tear, from the album By The Way (stay tuned to the chorus for the BB's reference) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW0JjfqR1-s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW0JjfqR1-s)

Woah, we have a true Peppers fanboy on our hands. ;D Thanks for all that. Gonna check out By The Way soon!

I hate the Chillies after their first 3 records.

My brother is/was a huge RHCP/Frusciante fan and through him i heard albums like Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-Shirt. I saw a Dutch documentary once on VHS with Frusciante in a sad room and his teeth rotting out. My brother went off him a bit when he released 12 albums in 12 months and most of them were keyboardy/electronic kind of things, which would have been okay except they weren't very good.

Personally, I don't like either RHCP or Frusciante's stuff, but it's an interesting story at least.

Oh, I do like Flea, and his work with Damon Albarn and Thom Yorke.

Can the tour scenario, M&Gs etc be blamed on Jean Seivers? Her name was put forward for a lot of negative views during the C50. She's almost worth a thread! :lol

You seem to know when the seeds were planted for sure.  Are you an insider?  Your tone is a bit overly defensive considering I only expressed an opinion, which was that Brian is not comfortable in a lot of of situations with other celebs, not just in the 70s of course. I don't know what was said when he met McCartney in the last decade, I'm sure they had a lovely time.  As for the meet and greets I don't really care if Beck missed his afternoon naps.  The point was that fans (like on during C50) are paying a lot of money to attend, and it has made some people a little uncomfortable with the whole process.

I agree with you about John Frusciante though.  Wish he was back in the RHCP. :)

Brian probably didn't know who Jeff was, had no liking of his music and just didn't care for him. Brian's not really a guitar guy  ;D

The more you think of it the shots Jeff has made in the press seem more and more like the comments of a guy who feels disrespected and not appreciated. Maybe he's really disappointed the album never happened.

It would really suck to be famous (like Jeff Beck) and give up your god given, American right to say stupid sh*t about somebody for no good reason at all :)

When somebody's famous, we record about half of what they say, which affords us the ability to catch them saying stupid sh*t several times a day.  Then we pick one or two of those out as evidence for why we never liked that asshole in the first place!

To us normal, average people nobody cares or pays attention to anything we say or do... which allows us to go around saying and doing stupid sh*t and nobody hates us for it. 

Jeff Beck has American rights? Might be news to him.

Since he's British.

I may come off as a bit defensive because it's a pattern similar to the BW movie discussions, the BW album discussions, and almost every time in the past year or so something comes out in the news about BW. At this point I've had my fill of various attempts to rewrite or reshape history to possibly suit an agenda. There is an agenda at work, what exactly it is...who knows. I'm curious to see what the end game may be if there is one, or if it's just a small group of fans who seem to have something negative to say against BW in general spouting off whenever news breaks. But I've had my fill of various attempts to paint certain events or even truths as something other than what they are, and maybe if someone here could shed some light on the reasons why almost every announcement or news blurb or report or leaked photo or video of recent BW projects has come under such scrutiny as to be ridiculous.

The issue of Surf's Up/Jeff Beck/Brian/Seeds Planted...that's one example of something that is the truth, that I tried to describe as the truth, but got challenged doing so. Reasons why...I don't understand. But: Would you take Brian Wilson's own words over mine? Because here they are from before the tour kicked off:

“When I watched Jeff Beck perform ‘Surf’s Up’ to honor me at the MusiCares Person of the Year event in 2005, I knew I had to find a way to work with him.  He absolutely blew my mind and we’ve been friends ever since.  Jeff’s incredible guitar playing is exactly what I want for my new album and I’m also looking forward to performing live with him soon.”

That's what I meant. Simple as that, this time in the man's own words. Let the impugning and dissecting and critical analysis of those words begin.

I will say it seems a shame that Brian considered Jeff Beck a friend, then has to read the type of stuff Beck has been saying in various recent interviews about him. That is genuinely a shame, in my opinion. Why is Beck doing this? Is it even accurate? Maybe Brian will someday address those points if it seems necessary, who knows. At this point it's Beck spouting off publicly on someone who considered him a friend at one time. That is not cool.

One doesn't need to be an insider as much as simply keeping one's ears and eyes open, and listening and reading as this stuff enters the dialogue.  ;) That's what I'm good at, I'm an excellent reader, a great listener, and a writer whose opinion of my writing usually tends to exceed the actual quality of the writing itself... ;D

Bringing up what Brian did around McCartney in the 70's was a low blow, it wasn't necessary, and again whatever the motivation may have been to bring that up, it felt like grasping at straws in order to back up something hinted at by Jeff Beck. As Paul and Brian have both interacted at each others' concerts and performed together on stage in the past decade or so, and both are nothing less than huge fans and admirers of each other, not to mention having what seems to be a pretty close personal bond from afar through that admiration, whatever happened in the 70's between them is irrelevant.

Problem is, do we take everything Beck says at face value, as the be-all and end-all version of events as he describes them? Maybe some do, perhaps there may be more to it. That's all I'm speculating.

And I'm a fan of Frusciante, for sure.  :)

When I mentioned Brian's encounter with Paul it was not intended as a low blow.  You seem to have missed the point I was making which was, Brian is not particularly comfortable being around musical peers.  How do I know this?  We've all read or heard stories about his encounters with people over the years.  No low blows, no agendas, I am a big Brian fan and categorically state that I do not have anything other than affection for him.  I have met him a few times and he has been very gracious and humble.  I don't like people going around criticising him.  He has overcome so many obstacles in his life to give us all great joy, and is still doing so today.  I am looking forward, as always, to his new album coming out.  I even bought a ticket to see Kacey Musgraves, despite never having hear her sing.  If she's good enough for Brian then that was all the recommendation I needed.  Hopefully this clarifies my opinion of Brian for you.

I also noted your comments in the movie discussion thread and felt you were arguing against other posters for the sake of it.  There is no 'agenda'.  People were only expressing reservations about the accuracy of the props and hoping it wouldn't be a reflection of the film as a whole. 

So again I'll just say, sod what Beck thinks about Brian.  We love the guy, will go to his gigs and buy the music because we love him and it's what we do.  It's not worth getting worked up about.:)

I actually don't see that happening at all. What I see is nearly every piece of information about anybody in the group being scrutinized and ridiculed on this board to the point of it getting out of hand, people leaving in a huff, etc. Every posting about Mike degenerates into a shred-a-thon and 10 pages of  arguments. Any criticism of Brian is seen as heresy. This same scenario is played out on message boards devoted to other bands as well, like on KissFAQ where fans are accusing other fans of being a part of a secret cabal to destroy Ace Frehley.

Guitarfool, have you considered the possibility of stop reading the board immediately after the release of the movie and Brian's next album? You know, some folks may not dig them, this might prevent you from having a stroke or two.

(Barely stifled laughter.)

This board took a decidedly Mike-boosting, Brian-bashing stance immediately before and after the C50 shows. Within the last couple of months, a few of us board members have begun battling back, asking those who claim (with no evidence whatsoever) that Brian is controlled by shadowy "people" to substantiate their claims. And to say that perhaps we should wait to hear the upcoming solo album before slamming it.

That's what this is about. We're not saying anything as overheated as you suggest. We're just asking for as much benefit of the doubt for Brian and his work and his creative choices as has become standard for Mike. Apparently that's too much for some to handle.

I have speculated in the past that BRI might either be compensating some posters or doing posting on its own to boost Mike's legitimacy as a touring act. Pure speculation, of course, but it definitely would have harmed Mike if his post C50-touring activities had actually caused confusion among fans, and there was ample evidence that it did. At about the same time that such reports started appearing on this board, there was a notable uptick in pro-Mike, "it was always planned this way," "Only idiots would expect the full band to continue" kinds of posts.

It makes you wonder, right? Because if Al or Brian's managers / wives had dropped by and seen evidence of confusion, they might have some ground to contest that exclusive touring license. But as it was, those early posts about post-C50 M&B shows were buried under an avalanche of similarly-worded pushback. And then, a bunch of posts made sure to note how happy everyone way to be paid their shares of Mike's revenue.

I'm not a conspiracy minded guy, really, and I think this line of thinking can rapidly turn really weird. But it is curious. And we know that the history of this group has many strange diversions.

Wirestone, you know I respect and love you as a poster, but that's a little too far? Why would M&B's organisation care, so long as they can get the soccer moms in Pisshole, Alaska to come out,  sing Barbara Ann and *cough*unleash the love*cough*?

We are a minority to M&B. Not to a lot of people in the BB's organisation (thanks for putting Our Sweet Love with Vox and Strings on MIC btw, I have been posting about that sh*t since 2011) but a minority to M&B. It's a shame, but the sudden influx of M&B love is just because people don't know sh*t and can't respect genius over hard work.
Let's blame Ayn Rand. BW doesn't work hard enough to be respected nowadays. Mike plays 370 shows a year for the milfs in the front row, and as we both know, thats what the beach boys are all about. [/sarcasm]

That's the definition of "overheated". When the C50 tour was announced it was only natural that the Mike-bashers would start whistling a different tune once he was back working with Brian. What were they supposed to say when Brian was praising Mike in interviews? "No, man, you're an idiot! Mike's a jerk". Even some of the the most ardent Mike-bashers happily and quite willfully played along hoping the boys were back for good and, more importantly, WANTING to believe that the future was bright. When the tour ended this board went right back to the whole Brian-vs-Mike debate like it usually does.

To use a Kiss analogy again: The posters on KissFAQ were feuding with each other and engaging in paranoid fantasies leading up to the band's rock-n-roll HOF induction. When the original four stepped onstage all smiles and back-slapping, even the most vicious Gene-haters were calling him "classy" and talking about how the "magic was back" etc. Once it was over they went right back to what they always do.    

I mean, come on...The fact that Brian's new album is coming with guest vocalists from a younger generation that most older posters had never heard of before was bound to cause moans and groans.....It would've been bizarre if it didn't.

I don't know why this is so baffling to people. For example, I just heard that Paul McCartney is collaborating with Kanye West. I couldn't tell you one thing about Kanye West, don't know his music, don't want to listen to it and don't care. Guess how I took that news? Part of me is thinking "Oh crap, I don't want to hear some guy rapping all over a Paul McCartney album" and the other part of me is saying "Now calm down, Paul's had a pretty good track record lately. He'll make it work". Having those thoughts is not some kind of egregious attack on McCartney. It's a quite normal response.

If I was on a Beatles message board I'm sure I'd see people writing those exact same sentiments and arguing back and forth. To suggest otherwise about this or any other fan message board is just giving in to paranoid fantasies.





 

And for the record, I like ALL of the Beach Boys. I don't have contempt for any of them. I know that there are Beach Boys fans who hate Mike, or resent Brian, or maybe they hate David Marks or whatever. To me, that is just so damn weird.

I think I'd only start to seriously dislike a Beach Boy if he couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

It is a problem when one of the fantasizers is a board moderator. And it's not a new thing, so he was chosen as moderator even though he feels that way (which makes the other mods suspect for selecting him). If that makes me a bad poster for saying that, oh well. I will just go back to lurking or not reading it much. No biggie.

That's an interesting observation.  Creative people tend to need flexibility and a certain amount of down time to maintain some level of creativity. The grind of a 9 to 5 job or constant work stress can sap the inspiration right out of you. It would be easy to mis-read this need for down time as "laziness," when in fact, it's the fuel for the creative effort. I've often thought that the disdain some people show Brian for "taking a check without doing the work" is misplaced. He did his part when he worked non-stop in the studio to produce  all of those hits and  that incredible music.  Touring those hits nonstop was always the thing that caused him strain and undermined the creative effort. Lucky for Brian, the band was willing to do the leg work to take those hits to the world.  

These days, Brian's inspiration has been muted somewhat by past substances, age and mental illness; and maybe he needs an occasional push to get going sometimes. But, he's still the guy who made those hits and an album that revolutionized all of popular music. That deserves some respect. In his 70's, he could just rest on his laurels if he wanted. But, when the inspiration and collaboration is right, he can still pull together something special, like "Midnight's Another Day" and the haunting suite on TWGMTR.  Apparently, Jeff Beck wasn't that kind of collaboration, and maybe it bugs him that Brian decided that the collaboration wasn't working. At any rate, constantly putting Brian down in interviews isn't going to win him any congeniality awards, and he really should just stop.

As for Mike, he loves what he does. He's the hard working, dedicated road warrior to Brian's reclusive genius. I fully recognize his contribution to creating and keeping this music alive, even if I think he's a jerk much of the time.  And, if he wants to tour until he's 100 (or Bruce starts to look too stringy in those shorts, or his bromance with Stamos ends in divorce)  then he should tour. I just wish he had a bit more class onstage and in interviews, and it would be nice if he could take to heart the  phrase he continually repeated during the C50: The Beach Boys are more than the sum of their parts.

See, without Brian, Mike wouldn't have an audience to sing to. And, without Mike and the band,  Brian wouldn't have an audience to write for. And, if we all could accept this symbiotic relationship, we'd be on our way to world peace. Or, at least Smiley-smile peace.

This is hilarious.

How many unique visitors does this board get every month? Not nearly enough to justify compensating posters.

I'm available for hire to post on behalf of anyone.

My people will contact your people.

Ask a Brianista how they felt about Jason, a guy who never should have been a moderator of anything.

Brianista? Don't you mean "sociopaths" Andy?

Regardless of who's a moderator and who's not, I've seen these "fads" hit the board every so often. From the terms "Brianistas" to "Kokomoists" when a poster wants to label someone in a derogatory fashion (and neither term seems to apply to anything...well...real) and now I guess the latest fad is to suggest there's a hidden agenda if someone likes a Mike and Bruce show or, God forbid, someone's critical of how Brian's solo career is handled....What is this crap? The Man From U.N.C.L.E.?

..and Brian's career IS handled, like anyone else who's made a name for themselves has advisors, "people", etc. It's called show business for a reason.  Geez, even George Clooney has "people" he hires to steer his career.

Are you freaking serious? So, me and Smile Holland are 'suspect' for choosing him because he feels differently from you? Doesn't make you a 'bad poster' (whatever that means), but it does make you come across as a bit of an ass. If you don't like the way we run the board, feel free to leave. Nobody is forcing you to be here.

This must be the most preposterous suggestion in the history of this board. Mike and Bruce are playing a hundred shows a year to people who do not read this board. This board is completely irrelevant in the great scheme of things.

Some might want to suggest that this board has become a Mike-embracing area but the facts show that it`s just a place where people have differing opinions (shock horror). Plenty of people have criticized Mike for the ending of C50, there were pages dedicated to the fact that Mike was going to veto all Dennis songs from the MiC collection (which proved completely untrue), there have been threads about BRI voting to take away Mike`s licence, every interview is pored over with suggestions that questions are being chosen/vetoed by Mike`s management (which again seems untrue) etc.

Now do some people also have a bee in their bonnet about Brian`s management, the use of autotune etc.? Very probably yes. But they are entitled to their opinions too and it doesn`t exactly constitute a big conspiracy.

Both 'Brianistas' AND 'Kokomo-ists' annoy the sh*t out of me. Personally speaking, I cannot stand biased, one-sided views. Guess what folks...in their own way, ALL of the core band have been asses at one point or another (except Dave...I don't think I've ever read anything negative about him on a personal level).

And yes, in complete agreement about the 'handlers'. That's pretty much standard practice in show business. And whatever one may feel about Brian's 'situation'....be glad he's not Britney Spears, who cannot make phone calls, go online, have access to her own money, or even read whatever she wants without everything being 'screened' beforehand. Hell, until the conservatorship was (very slightly) amended, she couldn't even be legally credited with writing anything.

Definitely no evidence of the former...considering my finances at this point, I certainly would be welcome! :lol

As for the latter, well....there are several parties on BOTH sides who are members here, although I don't see Scott or John trying to boost Mike's rep, and I certainly do not see Nelson, Probyn, or other members of Brian's band doing the same!

Ah ha!  Now it's all coming into focus.  Those stories from two years ago of people seeing AGD, while sitting on a grassy knoll in Dallas, being handed a huge bag full on cash by BRI's Elliot Lott must be true.  Then all it took were some posts from Mr. Doe and others on the Smiley Smile Message Board and world opinion was swayed in favor of Mike and Bruce going back to touring on their own.

Sad. Very sad.

You know, some of us may be in Jeff becks's payroll as well.

I wasn't looking for clarification but it was nice to see and get an understanding, and we are on the same page in many ways. I may be different in that I think it is worth getting worked up about in our own small way if you have someone - anyone - spouting off to the press and painting a certain picture of someone (in this case Brian) that at the very least is unfair and not at all indicative of the bigger picture of the man's daily life, happiness, activities, family, etc. In this case how many people with only a passing knowledge of Brian Wilson have read Beck's comments and immediately thought "yeah, that dude must need help...", based entirely and unfairly on something Jeff Beck said? Again, do we know it's accurate, do we trust Beck's version of events as the whole story, or is there more? Do we at least open up to the possibility that perhaps there is more to it than someone "who needs help" according to Beck? Coming from a guy who was considered a friend, yeah I get worked up because it isn't right to do that. That's me.

The Surf's Up thing - that was solid fact, coming from Brian on multiple occasions. I restated it here, I got challenged, some disagreed that it was even the origination of the pairing, and yes I get defensive when something which is beyond needing "proof" is challenged and I still wonder why that was the case here. The suggestion that Brian was again "forced" or nudged into doing something - carrying with it the possible implication that he didn't want to do it but went along yet again with the mysterious "handlers" against his own wishes perhaps - was discussed and mentioned more than when the actual truth of the matter as reported on the record by Brian himself and others, as if the inventions about what "could" have happened were more important than what *did* actually happen. And that was as simple as Brian hearing him play Surf's Up and wanting to work with him on music.

Then I get the suggestion I'm an "insider" or something for knowing this...it was in various reports and articles that got syndicated and republished around the web and in the music press...why make whether or not I am an insider or Bazooka Joe of bubble gum wrapper fame an issue on this board? It is totally irrelevant, *I* have nothing to do with interviews or statements that have been published in dozens of outlets, print and online that everyone has equal access to if they look for it.

So that, yes, I'll get defensive too because it's not about me or anything of the sort. If an honored guest on this board made a similar post as I did about the benefit show and Brian/Beck, would the reply have mentioned "insider" or anything of the sort? I'm reposting stuff I saw and heard over decades of following this band, that's what most of us do in these discussions. It just so happens I was right, 100% right, and those who chose not to believe it could then read Brian in his own words describing the Beck-Wilson pairing. Simple as that.

Another charge that concerns me: If you're going to reference me arguing for the sake of the arguing in the BW film thread, please give me at least a chance to see the basis of this statement and point out where I argued for the sake of arguing. Because I don't do that, I try deliberately not to do that. And if I did it without realizing it, let me see where and when I did it so I can see what I did and if necessary correct or defend it. That's not much to ask. Just let me see the basis of that statement.

I can and will say once and for all that saying the movie will be terrible based on still frames and not a second of actual film from the movie is foolish, silly, and not what I'd expect from fans. At least wait to see it before deciding it's a turkey and telling others it will suck. Then, all is fair game once it is actually available to see. I can say I'm excited for it, I can say I'm not excited for it, what seems a stretch is for me to say it either sucks or is a masterpiece before seeing any of it. Again, that's me. I will say I'm glad it's being released, and I'm interested and excited to watch it.

I seriously am glad there is some common ground here, but I also felt it necessary to explain myself a bit more and also request more information where necessary so I can see what I've been tagged with doing.  :)

I really hope you were joking when you posted this.

Since when isn't it allowed for moderators to have an opinion? The moderators are fans too, and we like to discuss as well. That's the fun part of being around here (moderating often isn't), and the main reason we became a member of this board, so don't take that away from us.
For the record: "we" choose a new moderator, based on his or her qualities on having a good, objective approach on things (or: we choose someone based on what's best for this messageboard); not because we agree on his/her opinions.

You don't have to agree with our choices or our opinions. We don't always agree on someone else's opinion either. But - and I speak on behalf of the others as well - I always respect someone else's opinion. It's the way how one communicates with another that matters to me (and lately - seing how some topics get out of hand - worries me more and more, tbh).

smile Holland and Billy are the best mods this board could ask for. Adding GF was a logical addition since he is a great guy as well.

Seconded!!!!!!!

When did "Brianista" become derogatory? For years is was a badge of honor to be one. While all the guys did one thing or another that might piss a fan off, none did anything that makes me hate any of them. They surely don't hate each other, so why should we? Even after all the sh*t that went down after C50, Brian didn't take to kindly to interviewers getting down on Mike. They are my favorite band and I ain't hatin' on any of them. :)

While I think his idea of payola being involved is silly, I do think that perhaps some of the posters here have been tainted by association. They manage to score a big interview or e-mail or something and become fiercely loyal to the viewpoints of their sources. I barely post here anymore and I've been slammed more than once for voicing something (unwittingly) that a "source" disagrees with.

This isn't a relaxed place to talk about the Beach Boys anymore, and hasn't been for awhile. It's circled by sharks that zealously attack anything that attempts to contradict their view of history.

Oh, pretty much around the same time that The Bloo showed up... coincidence, huh ?

That's not speculation, that's sheer screaming insanity. Sorry Clay, but that's about the daftest BB-related post I've seen since the Hoffster claimed Capitol were going to pull The Smile Sessions because fans had the balls to actually ask for more info about it, and asked him to take the rap. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sure as hell not on a retainer from Mike & Bruce to spread anti-Wilson propaganda (hey... maybe I should ask ?). Aside from anything else, I don't need paying to underscore the truth, or to point out misapprehensions. Remember, Mike's statement about the makeup of the touring band post 9/28/12 was issued at the express request of Brian's people. Guess Mike's people paid them to ask that...

BTW, Mike's license isn't exclusive. Gregg says so. And he knows.   ::)

Seriously? That "speculation" as to whether Mike has paid posters is patently absurd.  I guess I'll look in my mailbox for the check. FYI - just back from four days of sold out shows.  Arguing with success?

When Mike decided to rebuild a Touring Band, after Carl died, I'm the first to admit ( as a "doubting Thomas" type ) I had to take a real wait-and-see approach. And, contemporaneously, I saw Brian, and was delighted to do so, especially after the loss of a second sibling (I've been there;  a pretty ugly place) and watching Brian "bloom" in front of the audience, with Melinda off to the side of the stage.

Mike, was, I think sort of wisely conservative (not in the political sense)in his approach.  Now, the Touring Band has a global track record in various venues, and a carefully-crafted setlist with core people who are perfectionists.  In terms of fans, I'd be on the fussiest list, looking for a balance of what I go to hear.  And from small kids to some lady who just turned 100 or 101...

Four sold-out shows. And, I just checked the mailbox.  No "negotiable instrument" yet.

Thanks guys!

I'm not a conspiracy minded guy either but now I'm wondering if Wirestone isn't being compensated to boost Brian or deboost Mike. (taps finger tips together)

I don't think so, but I do think we are all taking this way too seriously. Makes me a wee bit worried. ;)

Now I'm wondering if you aren't being compensated to pretend to be reasonable to throw us off the scent of Wirestone and your fellow conspirators. (strokes white cat)

It truly amazes me the sh*t we make up in here, and that some people believe it.  :o

The butler did it...

(Whispering behind my hand) That's just the sort of thing a conspirator would say if they were being compensated.

I am starting to think Cam Mott is an evil supervillain posting from his lair. ;)



Though Wirestone is the man and a treasure of the board.

A Super-Villain with his little finger in the corner of his mouth. ;)

You're obviously both in Wirestone's "employer's" pocket.

Nah, I think it's more of a case of people just not being able to handle that others disagree with them about a given topic, whether it's Brian's new album or Brian's upcoming biopic. Maybe there are more arguments/discussions than usual because this is going to be a big couple of months for Brian Wilson. I mean, there's no new Mike album. There's no Bruce Johnston biopic on the horizon. All the hubbub on this board is centered around Brian because he's actually PRODUCING stuff. It's only logical that his projects would receive the most attention and scrutiny. Some people have lost sight of that. I'm sure if Mike announced he was writing his autobiography and it would be out in June there would be page after page of discussions and arguments...followed by bogus accusations that Brian's people were paying members to trash the book before it came out, because some people didn't like the mudslinging and finger-wagging at Mike in the threads. It's all so ridiculous.

BTW: I actually would like to see a Bruce Johnston biopic.  ;D

'I Clap The Songs' ;D

Nice.  :lol

Another charge that concerns me: If you're going to reference me arguing for the sake of the arguing in the BW film thread, please give me at least a chance to see the basis of this statement and point out where I argued for the sake of arguing. Because I don't do that, I try deliberately not to do that. And if I did it without realizing it, let me see where and when I did it so I can see what I did and if necessary correct or defend it. That's not much to ask. Just let me see the basis of that statement.

I can and will say once and for all that saying the movie will be terrible based on still frames and not a second of actual film from the movie is foolish, silly, and not what I'd expect from fans. At least wait to see it before deciding it's a turkey and telling others it will suck. Then, all is fair game once it is actually available to see. I can say I'm excited for it, I can say I'm not excited for it, what seems a stretch is for me to say it either sucks or is a masterpiece before seeing any of it. Again, that's me. I will say I'm glad it's being released, and I'm interested and excited to watch it.

I seriously am glad there is some common ground here, but I also felt it necessary to explain myself a bit more and also request more information where necessary so I can see what I've been tagged with doing.  :)
[/quote]

Here's the page in question. 

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16097.375.html

Look at the responses from Bubbly Waves and AGD.  You seemed to want to argue black was white on the issue of the Surfin' Safari photo shoot.  Asking how people knew for certain that was what the pictures represented, when it seemed to most people the intention was to recreate the Paradise Cove shoot.  It's a bit like someone looking at storm clouds in the sky and surmising there's going to be a storm, only for you to ask how they know for sure.  You also kept trying to insist that people thought the movie was going to be rubbish based on photos which may be inaccurate.  Nobody said that at all, merely they had concerns, which they are allowed to share in a thread about the photos from the film set. 

And on the issue of the Beck collaboration you seem to be saying that because Brian gave the reason behind it then it must be true.  Do you know what Brian's favourite Beach Boys album is? I don't because he changes his mind according to the mood he's in.  Brian says a lot of things that aren't 100% accurate from time to time, we all do.  It's as if you have blinkers on.  Brian has done things in the past because others have felt it was best, like finish SMiLE in 2004.  So it would not be beyond the realms of possibility someone suggested he work with Jeff Beck.  I'm not saying that is how it happened.  Maybe Brian did initiate it and I'm willing to believe he did if he says that's how it went down. 

Hopefully, I've explained my position.  Feel free to respond, but I'll probably leave it at that as I don't want to bore any fellow board members with our batting this back and forth.  I think we both love Brian, and are looking forward to the new releases. :)

  I just called, and they said to tell you "the check is in the mail"

Beck mentioned that Brian went there frequently on purpose.

Some of you will figure out where it is and hang around hoping to run into Brian.

Maybe he will tell you, hi.

The last paragraph I agree with 100%. Unfortunately I will not let the suggestion that I'm somehow wearing blinkers on any issue go by without a reply.

We see what we want to see, believe what we want to believe. Sometimes in spite of what may actually be the truth. If the man himself says multiple times that the Beck-Wilson collaboration started a certain way, I'm willing to take the man at his word. I have heard nothing to suggest otherwise. So he was nudged into finishing Smile...seriously, who cares anymore at this point since it got finished, right? It won worldwide praise, awards, sold out concerts, inspired a lot of people, etc etc etc. If Brian says the guy who makes his sandwiches at the deli convinced him to finish it, I'll take his word.  ;D What motivation would there be to suggest what Brian himself said about it just isn't the whole story with the Beck projects? Then I catch some heat for not being open to other possibilities...Seriously?  :)

You're just not seeing it as a bigger picture. I'm sorry to say that, but that one page of the film thread left out the previous pages where that car image was among suggestions it would be cheap, it would be another Summer Dreams, it would be anything less than a decent film based on a freakin' car of all things. Just like Zooey Deschanel and the Autotune heard in a ten-second cel phone video. Just like suggesting Brian really isn't that into Bach but said so for the cameras. Just like suggesting Brian is being prevented by a team of handlers from working with...you get the point. It's all being drawn from the same well, whatever that might be.

And it may or may not be the Surfin Safari car! Until we see the car in the film if it even makes the final cut, how do we know it wasn't a scene where the characters drive up to the beach to shoot that cover photo in that later-model black car and the infamous Surfin Safari Model A is sitting 50 feet away? Again, who can say they know what that scene is?

Does that equate it with "Summer Dreams" for quality based on a car on a beach? Does Jeff Beck suggesting Brian snubbed him mean that's actually the full story of what happened? Does what someone says they hear on a cel phone clip suggest the new album as a whole will be an Autotuned disappointment?

So...we stretch this whole thing into suggesting Brian's word on the collaboration isn't the only explanation, and it isn't the final say because he's vacillated and changed stories in the past...but Jeff Beck's word is the final say for some on his interactions with Brian on the tour, in the studio, on his state of mind, and afterward what happened in a deli?

Makes sense. As much sense as 2+2=3

We'll see. I have to get back to arguing for the sake of arguing, anyone have a discussion that needs disrupting?  :-D

Projects under scrutiny and criticism...Which of these projects so far have been released? I'm aware of no releases so far...album, film, book, tour...nothing yet unless I missed them.

What of substance is there to disagree about on those projects? At this point, anyone can say they're either excited or not excited for any of them based solely on opinion and expectation. What is ridiculous is using some of the parameters which have been used to declare the film "cheap", to declare the album any number of negatives, etc. On-set photos, cel phone videos, that's about it. No actual audio, no actual video or film, no actual pages from a book.

Do you agree that the album, film, and book should at least be released and available before scrutinizing them? What's all been so ridiculous is not even hearing or seeing or reading a project since they've not been released, but seeing fans taking to a Beach Boys message board to criticize and scrutinize it.

Ridiculous indeed.

Happens with every band though.

For the same reason people discuss/argue/criticize Ben Affleck as Batman, the changing of the origin story of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the latest movie or TV show before any of these projects came out and anyone has even seen it. I never said it was right. I said that was WHY it was happening (because someone..maybe not you...actually wondered..or more accurately suggested a secret cabal. Ever hear of human nature?). It's the nature of the internet, whether it be this board, Facebook or whatever and to expect otherwise is noble but not realistic. Come on. I can't believe you're even asking the question.

And for the record I was one of the guys saying "wait and see" in the Brian Wilson album thread (I haven't paid much attention to the film thread). My comments here were a response to the hysteria in this thread. Basically saying "this is happening because of human nature not because those members critiquing things are part of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.....Mr. Bond".     :afro

Wasn`t this comment about Bach from Stephen Desper. I think he`s more entitled than most to give his opinion.

As for believing Jeff Beck`s or Brian`s comments. They are both unreliable witnesses (as we all are when talking about our own lives). You are right that believing what Jeff says in his quotes and disbelieving Brian is unfair. The same goes the other way though surely.

Are expectations of the fans here really that low to expect that these fans who come to post on a Beach Boys message board would at least wait to experience a project for themselves before posting the kind of criticisms - in some cases based on nothing beyond wild speculation - that have been seen in the various discussions about Brian Wilson's new projects?

Man...a new Brian Wilson album on a Beach Boys board is nowhere near in the same universe as Batman fans griping about Ben Affleck. Has it really sunk to that level?

A new Brian Wilson album...Ben Affleck and Batman.

Think about it.

It happens with every band. It`s human nature.

And I don`t really see how Beach Boys fans could or should really sneer at Batman fans...

Click and read this:  http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17947.msg464561.html#msg464561 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17947.msg464561.html#msg464561)

Yep, it`s Stephen Desper who says that Brian was playing the interviewer.

Missed the point entirely.

The message at the link...are you ignoring what that said or didn't you read it?

Seriously.

Step by step for Nicko1234:

1. Click on the link   2. Read the specific message at that link  3. Get the point?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17947.msg464561.html#msg464561 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17947.msg464561.html#msg464561)

Simple.

Conflicting reports from Desper and Ray. I think the question is more who you would believe more, and why?

Nice attitude admin.  :lol

Sure, I can read Ray Lawlor`s post.

I can also read Stephen Desper`s post which does mention Brian playing the interviewers which is presumably what you referred to in your post.

Now comments like Stephen Desper`s are not, `drawn from the same well` as anything. The board is all about people giving different opinions and it`s cool that 2 people who have known Brian during different periods have given their comments.

Which of the reports is recent and which is 40 years ago?

Or to turn it a different way, not to impugn but just to add: If a high school classmate of mine I haven't spent much time with in 20 years were asked what I listened to and who I was influenced by musically, it would be almost radically different from recent years of my life. I'm not the same person musically that I was in school, simple as that.

So that high school person would say...oh, he never listened to Duane Allman or Phil Spector's music when I knew him...while the musicians I play with and people I hang around today would say something different. And I did listen to Allman and Spector but didn't wear it on my sleeve as much as others.

Well if you could read it, why didn't you at least reference it in the first place?  :lol  I know that thread very well, and didn't need a reminder on who said what...though I appreciate it...and it wasn't why I posted the link!

I'm not easily duped or baited, either. Not that it applies here, but just sayin'.   ;D

Oh yeah, I agree, which is why I posted that. I'd go with Ray as his recollection is more current. Brian's tastes changed over the years, like most people's do. Heck, Brian used to listen to more current music in the 70s and 80s and yet now by his own admission it's mainly 50s and 60s.

Because it doesn`t mean that another poster (in this case Mr Desper) shouldn`t have given his opinion. And it certainly doesn`t mean that these opinions are, `drawn from the same well` as you put it. There is no big agenda going on that I can see...

I'm appealing to Nicko1234 to consider just these three things to see where I'm coming from:

1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG_DpfC-74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG_DpfC-74)

2.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brian-wilson-here-comes-the-sun-401202.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brian-wilson-here-comes-the-sun-401202.html)
BW: "Oh, yes – I love Bach! I have to tell you that JS Bach was easily the greatest musical innovator in the history of the world. He was so advanced for his time. There's a spiritual depth to his music. You can listen to it and it's like meditation."

3.  http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/ (http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/12377/)
Q: In the new documentary, you use the phrase “rock opera” a lot to describe Smile—do you have a favorite classical composer?
BW: Bach. He was an innovator.


My perspective was shaped by quotes like those. It's tough to question the authenticity of a statement when the guy has repeated similar things in numerous interviews.

I can definitely see that, which is why I was a bit taken back by Stephen's post.

One thing, though...maybe him and Ray were both right...Brian did dig Bach then, but was also playing the interviewer.

Just a thought.

BW 2004: “We wanted it to sound like a continuum, because I like it when music flows. Bach’s music did that. To do that, though, you have to have the knack for it; you have to know your classical music. My favorite was Bach, because he used simple chords and simple forms, but got such complex results. That’s what I was trying to do.”

I could go all night with quotes but I think I made the point I wanted to make. If *anyone* suggested something other than Brian was and is a fan and admirer of Bach and that he took influence from the music, I'd have these quotes and more in my mind as I'd challenge the opinion based on what the man actually said. That's not impugning anyone or shutting out opinions, it's just basing it more on what BW has said repeatedly over opinions. And if and when it goes into challenging the legitimacy or the truthfulness of what he was/is saying, that becomes another issue, again based on how often he has been quoted saying things like this.

I can see that, but at the same time one is confirming something that has been said repeatedly by Brian himself and the other is an opinion that he was playing up for the interview.

It should be noted too that apparently Brian at one time - I don't know the time or the details - told someone that the instrumental break on "Here Today" was inspired by Bach. Likewise I've seen people speculate that the decision to use harpsichord on "When I Grow Up" was a nod to Bach. In the case of Here Today, if Brian did indeed say that was his nod to Bach, I weigh that more heavily than observers suggesting the harpsichord on When I Grow Up was inspired by Bach because I have never heard him mention that directly. And I would accept the Here Today statement/story before accepting the assumption about the other tune.

That`s not really the point.  :)

I`m not saying that Stephen Desper was right. I`m just saying that him making a comment does not mean, to use the phrase again, that his feelings are, `drawn from the same well` or that there is any agenda going on.

I don`t think there is any connection to the subject of this thread at all. There is no mysterious conspiracy going on.  :)

To get back closer to the topic...you asked the question earlier in the thread, `Does Jeff Beck suggesting Brian snubbed him mean that's actually the full story of what happened?`

As you said, the answer is obviously no. But do Brian`s comments (or Mike`s comments or Al`s comments or anyone`s comments) tell us the full story of anything either? The answer obviously has to be no again doesn`t it. They are all unreliable witnesses and you don`t have to have an agenda to believe that.

Off subject, but the Bach thing reminds me of something.

During my college days, I had a complete numbnut as an instructor for my music theory class. This was fall of 1998. Anyway, guy flat out said that  (and I quote)'the only person throughout history that ever wrote anything substantial was JS Bach'. He meant it too. Every other week, we were to submit a composition for our grade, and everyone in the class was getting bad marks, with comments written like 'this is NOT what Bach would've done'.  So, to be a bit of jerk myself, one week I painstakingly transcribed the sheet music for God Only Knows and submitted that as my own composition, just to see what he would say. Lo and behold, when he looked at it, he threw it down on his desk and said in front of the entire class 'this is absolute garbage that makes no musical sense...Bach would be ashamed of you.' Keep in mind he didn't play it, or have any idea of what it was. Fucking doof.

Isn't this setting up a scenario, then, where no one is reliable as a witness, no one can tell the full story, therefore no one is telling the truth because everyone's word is unreliable? So "event x" happens, and if it were to involve let's say Mike and Al, there is no truth to what actually happened to be told by either man because both parties are unreliable? That could set a standard where the lie and the truth coexist equally because the parties involved doing the eyewitnessing are all unreliable...how does anything get sorted out? And how does the truth actually become the account of "event x" when it's being discussed rather than the lie being passed off equally?

That's a pretty nihilistic scene right there.  :-D  I wonder what Beck's and Brian's opinions are of the sandwiches at that deli...if we can trust them.   :lol

That is a great story - and it does illustrate a lot of the problems and biases that keep minds closed in the music education world. "Absolute garbage"? Haha...too bad you couldn't have somehow contacted McCartney's people and had Sir Paul come into the class unannounced to give his thoughts on that garbage music.  :lol  Or even Brian!

Nah, just because one person`s account isn`t going to be 100% reliable, that doesn`t make it 100% unreliable either.  

And how do we get to the truth? By looking to as many sources as possible I suppose. That`s why Poirot interviewed as many witnesses as possible before deciding that they were all guilty.  :)

Sad part is, he was a younger guy...younger than I am now, for sure.

Just to be an ass, I recorded several songs from the composition book (minus God Only Knows, of course), and if I ever break through commercially, I'm gonna mention that story whenever possible.

My music theory teacher in college was the exact opposite.  He was pretty snobby, even more snobby than the snobbies on this board... but he did a couple things that really impressed me.  He seemed to have an equal love for an entire who's who of classical music... and on the last day of class, in his dry, drab style... introduced us to the Beatles and presented them as a modern day 'equal' to the greats like Bach.  One day, he played a little bit of Beethoven's pathitique and I stayed after class to tell him that I had heard Billy Joel steal the melody for his song "This Night".  In his same dry, drab way he said "Well, I don't think Beethoven would mind"

Which I think was a compliment to Billy Joel.  

Dr. Phil always says "No matter how flat you make a pancake it's still got two sides"

and then I've always heard there's three sides to every story; his, hers, and the truth.

Bgas, that was a classic, and cracked me up, having my coffee!

But, put this one on ice for later!   :beer

And GF2002 is exactly dead on.  There is no place for "revisionist history" and frankly enough eyewitnesses who aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. And, interviews by the band, from different eras, which controvert some new would-be spin masters and mistresses. (Hopefully! )  :lol

The music corpus is sufficient. Drama is not necessary.  
 
Only the "good go young!"  ;)

Neat story. Thanks!

Reminded of course of Brians music teacher giving him an F. :lol

Well, I DID get a D- on my final, and that track will be on the album, although not going to be released as a single. Wish i could remember that asshat's name...I'd send him a copy with a note saying 'who's ashamed NOW, bitch' :lol