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Title: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: DrZombi on July 05, 2014, 09:57:18 AM One part of the SMiLE mythos that confuses me is that fact that some SMiLE tracks made it onto albums between 1968-1971. Wasn't the SMiLE album cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs? Did the songs grow on them after 1967? To be honest, I feel like they did it just to fill the albums. "Cabinessence" and "Our Prayer" really don't fit on 20/20. The only one that felt right to use was "Surf's Up" on the album called Surf's Up.
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Gabo on July 05, 2014, 11:45:10 AM The other members (Carl) decided to use them because Brian wasn't writing much and they couldn't come up with enough material on their own. You're correct.
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: runnersdialzero on July 05, 2014, 12:01:14 PM Wasn't the SMiLE album cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs? No, that's a myth. P.S. *Smile Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Jon Stebbins on July 05, 2014, 12:09:26 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own.
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: DrZombi on July 05, 2014, 12:41:31 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: alf wiedersehen on July 05, 2014, 12:54:50 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Gabo on July 05, 2014, 03:23:13 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: drbeachboy on July 05, 2014, 04:51:42 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mike's Beard on July 05, 2014, 05:03:55 PM And was Mike postitive on Smiley Smile. :hat
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: The Demon on July 05, 2014, 05:20:46 PM Well, Mike is Mr. Positivity.
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mr. Verlander on July 06, 2014, 03:58:32 AM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: DrZombi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:47 AM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley. I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: The Demon on July 06, 2014, 05:29:04 AM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley. I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material. Years ago Cam posted a cool essay about how Smiley Smile was Smile. I won't quite go that far, but I do feel it is one manifestation a few directions Brian was exploring with Smile. The humor, for one, is certainly accentuated. The simple arrangements are also an extension of the early "Vegetables" and solo "Surf's Up." I wouldn't trivialize Smiley Smile so easily. It lacks Van Dyke Parks' conceptual unity, but it is still a version of Smile. It would even be fair to say it is Brian Wilson's version of Smile in 1967, as opposed to the Wilson/Parks version. It has the humor and some of the sadness Brian puts in his music, but those emotions are not tied to any larger context as Van Dyke had done with the Smile lyrics. Those who dismiss it cannot fully appreciate the Smile they think should have been released instead. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: DrZombi on July 06, 2014, 10:34:23 AM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley. I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material. Years ago Cam posted a cool essay about how Smiley Smile was Smile. I won't quite go that far, but I do feel it is one manifestation a few directions Brian was exploring with Smile. The humor, for one, is certainly accentuated. The simple arrangements are also an extension of the early "Vegetables" and solo "Surf's Up." I wouldn't trivialize Smiley Smile so easily. It lacks Van Dyke Parks' conceptual unity, but it is still a version of Smile. It would even be fair to say it is Brian Wilson's version of Smile in 1967, as opposed to the Wilson/Parks version. It has the humor and some of the sadness Brian puts in his music, but those emotions are not tied to any larger context as Van Dyke had done with the Smile lyrics. Those who dismiss it cannot fully appreciate the Smile they think should have been released instead. I wasn't dismissing it. I actually think Smiley Smile is better than SMiLE and Pet Sounds combined. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 07, 2014, 07:09:21 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley. I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material. Years ago Cam posted a cool essay about how Smiley Smile was Smile. I won't quite go that far, but I do feel it is one manifestation a few directions Brian was exploring with Smile. The humor, for one, is certainly accentuated. The simple arrangements are also an extension of the early "Vegetables" and solo "Surf's Up." I wouldn't trivialize Smiley Smile so easily. It lacks Van Dyke Parks' conceptual unity, but it is still a version of Smile. It would even be fair to say it is Brian Wilson's version of Smile in 1967, as opposed to the Wilson/Parks version. It has the humor and some of the sadness Brian puts in his music, but those emotions are not tied to any larger context as Van Dyke had done with the Smile lyrics. Those who dismiss it cannot fully appreciate the Smile they think should have been released instead. I wasn't dismissing it. I actually think Smiley Smile is better than SMiLE and Pet Sounds combined. Would you mind explaining your thoughts on Smiley, DrZombi? I love all three, but for myself, I think Smiley is the weakest of the 3 and it's the only one that didn't instantly grab me. That's just my personal experience. I think it's really unique that you seem to favor it so much to the other two. Not that it matters of course; I'd just like to see where you're coming from :hat Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 07, 2014, 07:18:21 PM It is historically incorrect to say that the "SMiLE album (was) cancelled because the other Beach Boys besides Brian didn't like the songs". Go read some quotes from the era, Dennis especially was effusive in his praise for Brian's new Smile recordings, and there is ample evidence that Carl was fully behind the project as well. All of the Beach Boys contributed long hours and hard work to the sessions, and all of them are part of why Smile is great. Smile's demise had little to do with inter-band politics, but instead a combination of negative label energy, budget constraints, creative burnout, and a derailing of something that took on a life and death of it's own. Wasn't Mike against the smile songs? I know Dennis said in a press that Smile made "Pet Sounds stink". No, Mike was not against the Smile songs. He seemed to have some issues with some of Van Dyke's lyrics for being a bit abstract. Although, he still gave those lyrics his all when he sang 'em. He wanted the band to continue making commercial pop. Of course he was against them. He has said he appreciated "Wonderful" but not all of it was "his cup of tea." I take that as basically all of it. It's up in the air whether Mike was a culprit in the Smile demise. I don't think he was a positive influence on Brian, at the very least. He sang the songs well because that was his job. Brian was the boss. Well, if you think he was vocal about not liking SMiLE, then what do you think he thought about Smiley Smile? That album is about 10 times less commercial than SMiLE. Why would he be OK with Smiley? Mike got to do a lot more on Smiley. I'm pretty sure that album only exists because the BB needed new material. Years ago Cam posted a cool essay about how Smiley Smile was Smile. I won't quite go that far, but I do feel it is one manifestation a few directions Brian was exploring with Smile. The humor, for one, is certainly accentuated. The simple arrangements are also an extension of the early "Vegetables" and solo "Surf's Up." I wouldn't trivialize Smiley Smile so easily. It lacks Van Dyke Parks' conceptual unity, but it is still a version of Smile. It would even be fair to say it is Brian Wilson's version of Smile in 1967, as opposed to the Wilson/Parks version. It has the humor and some of the sadness Brian puts in his music, but those emotions are not tied to any larger context as Van Dyke had done with the Smile lyrics. Those who dismiss it cannot fully appreciate the Smile they think should have been released instead. I don't buy into this "Smiley Smile is SMiLE, it's what the project naturally grew into" line of thinking. That being said, I completely agree, there's more elements (no pun intended) of SMiLE in Smiley Smile than a lot of people seem to think. And while it took me a while to appreciate it myself, I agree, anyone who hates on Smiley Smile probably wouldn't have enjoyed a finished, "definitive" (yes, there's that word again...) 1967, psychedelic SMiLE as much as they think they would. Psychedelic Sounds is the crucial piece of the puzzle that many people (and until recently, myself included) overlook. But it ties both albums and the design choices for the LP cover and booklet together. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: runnersdialzero on July 07, 2014, 09:19:21 PM Fucking hell :'(
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 07, 2014, 09:23:36 PM Fucking hell :'( Something the matter, friend? :afro Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: The Shift on July 07, 2014, 10:46:14 PM Psychedelic Sounds had a cover that tied Smile's and Smiley's together???? Can you explain, Mujan please?
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 07, 2014, 11:20:43 PM Psychedelic Sounds had a cover that tied Smile's and Smiley's together???? Can you explain, Mujan please? I meant, how SMiLE's cover is so simplistic (it looks like a child drew it) yet honest (it conveys a sense that the music is honest, innocent and from the heart.) The back cover photo is so simplistic and...kinda lame. The song titles make you think ten kinds of WTF. It just looks goofy. Almost unprofessional. Or like a joke album. I mean this as a good thing. Opening it up and finding the booklet...it shows they're in on the joke. They know they're completely out of their element, the drawings are now psychedelic and more interesting...they compliment the music but don't spoil any surprises listening the first time. That's what I mean. Now, how does this tie into Psychedelic Sounds and Smiley? Same goofy humor. All the silly skits, laughing, "good!" left in With Me Tonight...It's the same type of style that cover/booklet originally sought to convey. And I'd argue the Psych skits were SMiLE's attempts at the type of humor and off the wall additions present on Smiley. Brian said back in the day that there'd be a lot of spoken word humor on this album. I don't think Psych Sounds was recorded for nothing. Sure, the vast majority wouldn't be used because there was so much. But I think the best moments would've been spliced in at various points. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: rogerlancelot on July 07, 2014, 11:38:38 PM Mike Love hated SMiLE. He still refers to it only in a negative way (unless gaining $$$ is involved). Bruce hated Carl and the Passions: So Tough. Mike hated Brian Wilson's 1988 solo album. Brian likes cake and hates Las Vegas. Al quickly got tired of Brian's Baldwin organ. Bruce hates Obama.
Is it too much for a little honesty here? I am sure with a short amount of time wasted, I can come up with a source for all of the above statements. But we'll re-write history instead because that is how it is done. Long live Mike Love. :p Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Please delete my account on July 08, 2014, 01:11:41 AM Yes, just because there may be no proof that Mike Love was against the Smile material doesn't mean he wasn't. After the success of "GV" he had the lyric writer's role once again wrenched away from him and was presented with lyrics whose poetry and obscurity were against everything he stood for as a lyricist. Any time I've seen or read him praise it it always sounds either grudging or bemused. Like picking out the idea that "Vegetables" fit in well with the health food ethos of the era.
Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: The Demon on July 08, 2014, 07:24:16 AM I wasn't dismissing it. I actually think Smiley Smile is better than SMiLE and Pet Sounds combined. I think I'd have to agree with you, then. Title: Re: SMiLE tracks released on later Beach Boys albums Post by: Gabo on July 08, 2014, 08:50:55 AM Smiley Smile is good... but better than Pet Sounds, or Pet Sounds and Smile combined?
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