The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hi guys, so I just discovered SMiLE this year, and I have to say, I really love all the albums that came between 1967-1971, because they all have SMiLE tracks on them plus many great hidden gems.  I was wondering, are the SMiLE tracks on these albums re-recorded or just lifted from their original sessions?  For example, Our Prayer & Cabinessence on 20/20, Surf's Up on well, the album Surf's Up, and even H&V on Smiley Smile.  From what I hear, Surf's Up does sound totally new in 1971, but was it close to that in 1967?  Cabinessence is really similar on the Smile Sessions and 20/20.  

Then there's tracks where Smile songs were changed, like how "Child Is the father of the Man" became a part of "Little Bird", and "Workshop" was tacked onto the end of "Do It Again".  Also, "Aren't You Glad" sounds a bit like Holidays. So were Surf's Up, Our Prayer, Cabinessence, and even Cool Cool Water newly recorded for their respective albums?

I believe Carl picked up "Cabin Essence" for 20/20 and simply added a lead vocal to Brian's finished backing track.
With "Our Prayer", I think a few new harmonies were added to make it a stereo track.
For "Surf's Up", I think Carl embellished the old track, adding things like an organ.

Someone else can undoubtedly give you better answers.

Cabin Essence had a single lead vocal with artificial double-tracking overdubbed by Carl (with Dennis helping on the production end). Carl, Dennis, and Bruce overdubbed vocals onto Our Prayer around the same time. Heroes and Villains on Smiley Smile is mostly the Smile fragments except for the verse vocals and the organ overdubs. Surf's Up has Carl and Marilyn's vocals, organ, and Moog bass overdubbed - the reprise at the end is a 1970 creation.

Of course I'm not one of the board "experts" but if I suppose I could get pretty detailed. And this is just as I understand things (although I'm pretty sure I'm usually on point)....

I suppose we'll start with "Heroes And Villains" off of Smiley Smile. Parts of the instrumental track do come from the actual SMiLE sessions while all of the vocals are post SMiLE. Also on Smiley Smile you have "Vegetables" which at the end actually includes a snippet of the SMiLE version of that song, entitled "Vega-Tables". The part I'm referring to of course is part where Brian's singing at the end with all the bells and whistles (not literally) as opposed to the very minimal rest of the track.

You didn't mention "Mama Says" from Wild Honey, but as I'm sure you know, that part came from "Vega-Tables". However, "Mama Says", as featured on Wild Honey, was indeed recorded during the Wild Honey sessions, despite sounding similar to some SMiLE era vocal workouts.

As you mentioned, there is the part of "Little Bird" that is super similar to "Child Is Father Of The Man", however all of "Little Bird" is indeed a Friends-era recording.

As far as "Our Prayer", Bubbly Waves pretty much got that one right. Same version as what was done during the SMiLE sessions, with some extra vocals added to it. "Cabinessence", also from 20/20, uses Brian's SMiLE-era backing track and background vocals, including Denny's "truck drivin' man" vocals. However, apparently the sections did have to be edited together in 1968. And of course Carl did his lead vocal in '68 as well.

"Cool, Cool Water", however, actually has no SMiLE era material to it. Obviously it is very similar to "Love To Say Dada", but "Cool, Cool Water" itself is not of SMiLE vintage. The track was started in 1967 after the SMiLE sessions and was picked back up and finished in 1970. The so called "water chant" in the middle was thought until recently to be from the SMiLE era, but isn't. I can't recall when exactly that part was recorded, but surprisingly it wasn't during the SMiLE era proper.

And lastly, "Surf's Up" as featured on Surf's Up is the SMiLE era backing track for the first part, combined with 1971 vocals, and then the second part is Brian's 1966 piano and vocal with moog bass and organ added as The Real Beach Boy mentioned. The new "Child Is Father Of The Man" vocals were added in 1971 as was the "children's song" part as sung by Al. This was actually a 1971 creation, despite what The Real Beach Boys stated in the post before mine.

Anyways, guess I may have expounded a bit much on all this! But I hope it helps!

Excellent ! The only hole I'd pick is that "CCW" does feature a Smile-era recording: the 'thunderstorm' bridge between the two sections. Steve Desper told me back in 1985 that they pulled those vocals from the vault back in 1970. The Moog pad is a later addition, of course.

Wait. Do you literally mean the recording of a thunderstorm? Like that's from the SMiLE era? Or do you mean the actual chant? Because while I know that those vocals are from 1967, I thought they were post-SMiLE (according to c-man due to his research). Am I confusing things?

The chant.

The chant, and that's what SWD told me. However, I would defer to Craig's researches, thus there are no holes left to pick in your excellent summary.  :bow

Thanks AGD. I really appreciate it. When the likes of you give's props on something like this, that really means something!  :happydance

However, hopefully c-man shows up in this thread and confirms when it's from.....juuuuuust to make sure.

  Yes, I have long been under the impression that the chant section of "Cool Cool Water" is indeed a Smile extract. Best part of the song.

Actually the chant was recorded during the Wild Honey sessions if I remember correctly - it should be in c-man's sessionography in the Smile box set booklet.  Don't have it with me to double check though.  Interestingly when it was used on Sunflower Brian expressed misgivings about using the chant (the quote's in Preiss's book) and implied it was from the Smile era, but I believe c-man has shown it was recorded later. 

Well, if it was a Wild Honey era recording, in 1970 they'd have to pull those vocals from the vault just the same as if they were from the SMiLE era.

Bruce talks in the Endless Harmony doc about pulling that section from the vaults. I believe he either says or implies they were original Smile tapes, though obviously he could be mistaken on the details (the basic fact--pulling 1967 tapes for 1970 use--would be the same and the memory would be decades old by then).

Anyone ID the organ used as the bed for that session, as one could theoretically hear on SOT 17?

I've always wondered how Carl knew the Cabinessence's melody and lyrics, as it doesn't seem to ever be even rehearsed before. We all imagine the SMiLE unrecorded lead melodies only existing in Brian's head at the time. If he sang it to Carl it wouldn't be so easy to remember 2 years later

Maybe Carl just asked Brian before he sang it? ::)

From what I recall, Brian told Carl to listen to the Banjo part.  :)

Given what we know about Brian's reluctance to have anything to do with the Smile music that the Boys worked on after the fact (I believe Desper said he often left the house when production started), I'm not sure I buy that - perhaps Brian had written out a lead sheet in 1966 (which I think was necessary to register to copyright) and Carl worked off of that?

Such as one similar to that which appears on pages 103-104 of LLVS (revised edition)?

Truck Drivin man is from the 68 sessions I believe. That's what the SMiLE book said in the discography.

It does indeed say that

But  isn't Dennis  also quoted discussing those lyrics in 66?

Proof that this vocal line was discussed, possibly rehearsed at the time.

Or they were cut in 66 and the sessionography is wrong. Not doubting Cman, I'm sure he has good evidence they were cut in 68.

Not to diverge much, but I'll throw one in: "Whistle In" adapted from the "Look" music and "Hawaiian Prayer" vocal melody from "Worms."

The organ part at the start of "Gettin' Hungry" always seemed like yet another "Heroes and Villains" variation to me, too.

Dennis may have discussed the Truck Drivin' Man lyrics in 1966, but the vocal for it was recorded in 1968. Too bad it's buried so far into the mix.

This version reveals a bit more of the vocal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M)

Yep. Have it on a boot somewhere:

Truck driving man do what you can
High-tail your load off the road
Out of night life it's a gas man
I don't believe I gotta grieve
In and out of luck
With a buck and a booth
Catching on to the truth
In the vast past, the last gasp
In the land, in the dust, trust that you must
Catch as catch can

I was hoping that an isolated version would appear on TSS. Perhaps it cannot be done.

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Back in 2011, I inquired why it wasn't included in the Smile Sessions box.  An educated guess was that that part wasn't recorded during the 1966/'67 Smile sessions, so it wasn't included.

Yet, Carl's verse vocals were included despite not being recorded during the sessions for Smile ???

As far as I can guess, the only reason people think it was recorded in 68 is that its not on the 66 tapes. Remember the 68 multis are missing. So by that logic, anything not on the 66 tapes must be 68.

This logic would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that lots of the 66 tapes are missing.

Unless I'm missing something. Is there written evidence that it was cut in 68?. Do we have the tracking sheets?

But they weren't included in isolated form. In the CD1 version both Carl's lead and Dennis' rap were included...

My name is Dennis and I'm the man
I write songs predicting death with the wave of my hand