The Smiley Smile Message Board

I realize a topic like this has been done before, but I felt like it was worth mentioning again in light of a lot of discussions on this board and a reminder I got by listening to the radio this week.

I tuned into Little Steven's "Underground Garage" last weekend and heard him give a very nice rundown of the history behind Jan And Dean, going through the backstory of Jan And Arnie, the whole scene they were in, and mentioning Bruce and Sandy Nelson and the rest of that amazing homegrown late 50's LA teen music scene. Earlier I had heard another show where they were playing Sandy Nelson's music and again Bruce's name came up along with the other players who made all of that music happen in late 50's LA.

And I wondered if all of those posting various comments about Bruce on this board over the last few years really knew the story of the whole LA scene and how Bruce played a role in those earliest stages of the so-called "teen music" scene came together, and how many of the names that were a vital part of this music when it exploded nationally in the 60's and beyond were friends of and had worked with Bruce when they were basically a bunch of kids and school classmates who loved rock and R&B music and were making their own records in garages, basements, and small indie studios, some of which like those early Jan Berry and Sandy Nelson and Teddy Bears sides just happened to get picked up and chart nationally at a time when the odds of such things happening were pretty slim in a tightly controlled record business.

It's not worth listing a full history and biography here, as such information can be easily found elsewhere.

But I'd just ask those who have a certain image of or impression of Bruce Johnston based on the recent past take a look at his resume before forming an opinion.

Because he was a pretty prominent member of that gang of kids from LA who all but created a scene out of nothing, made some really classic records that were not much more than demos and the like which became hits and stoked the fire which led to the 60's LA studio and recording scene which we here all know and love, and again most of them were barely out of their teens when they made all of this happen.

It's a pretty amazing (and cool) backstory to read through, and when reading through it consider having another window open with YouTube ready to go to actually hear some of these nascent LA studio-scene records like "Teen Beat", the Jan And Arnie material, and any of the offshoots involving Bruce, Jan, Sandy, Kim Fowley, Spector, Terry, Steve Douglas, and a host of others who would later become known for their session and solo work.

Consider when Sandy's "Teen Beat" became a top-ten hit and a gold-selling record, Bruce (born 1942) was still in his teens. Teen Beat indeed!

A lot of creating a marketable, commercial interest in a particular "scene" or location where a reputation for cutting hit records could turn into demand for more product has to start with...well, cutting hit records! And again, these teenagers in sunny California were doing this in 1958 and 1959 and turning demos into national hits, when many of them were around 18 years old.

That, even in 2014, is pretty amazing. "Hey kids, let's put on the show right here!"

So I'm just appealing to anyone interested to take a few moments and read/hear what he actually did in music and as a musician and producer/writer before the Beach Boys were even formed as a band. Just the years before 1962 would ensure Bruce at least an entry in the great unwritten "History Of Rock" encyclopedia if he had never been in the Beach Boys.



***And, worth noting for the irony and considering recent long threads on this board about songwriting credits and the like: Bruce never received his due credit when "Teen Beat" was released and became a hit, and it was a point of contention between him and Sandy Nelson when the record went gold and Bruce - who played a major role in making that record - wasn't listed on the label credits. So Mike wasn't the first and surely won't be the last musician or writer to have gotten screwed out of credit on hit records.  :)

Cheers, Bruce, for all the great music and for being a part of the original indie teen music scene.

Well, I think anybody with a scholarly interest in the Beach Boys would do well to familiarize themselves with the music you're mentioning here, because it was just as much part of the musical culture that spawned them as Chuck Berry or instrumental surf music. And of course Bruce was a major player in this scene even as a teenager, and even before his affiliation with Columbia and Terry Melcher.

In the summer of 1958, Brian Wilson would have been sixteen and was immersing himself in numerous 45s that were being cut just a few miles from where he lived on independent black music labels like Specialty and Keen. Keen, which included Sam Cooke on its roster, was founded by a very important and unheralded record man named Bob Keane, who would shortly spin off from the label to start Del-Fi. The first of Del-Fi's signings to achieve a hit was a young Chicano musician from Pacoima named Ritchie Valens, who made it to #2 with a song he wrote, "Donna". Valens was 17 at the time and when he needed a band to back him up, he was introduced to Bruce Johnston.

So really you can see that Bruce's musical roots go back about as far as rock 'n' roll does, and he was involved with some really important records even as a teenager. Bruce and his immediate group of high school acquaintances would include Jan Barry, Kim Fowley, Sandy Nelson and Phil Spector amongst other notables. Through his affiliation with Del-Fi he was introduced to luminaries such as Frank Zappa and Barry White before the general public had any idea who they were. He also had two singles that received airplay up and down the coast with "Do the Surfer Stomp" (Donna 1354) and "The Original Surfer Stomp" (Del-Fi 4202) prior to his affiliation with The Rip Chords and Bruce & Terry.

The late 50s and early 60s in Los Angeles were a very interesting time in general. While the narrative about rock 'n' roll dying during the period between the day the music died and the Beatles on Ed Sullivan still seems to taken as gospel in some quarters, this era was really the genesis of what would ultimately manifest into the sixties' folk rock boom and beyond. Many of the big names from that time were biding their time or finding their chops as songwriters and producers. Jan Berry and Phil Spector already had huge national hits as early as 1958, with Sandy Nelson's "Teen Beat" coming shortly thereafter in 1959 alongside other local novelties such as Skip & Flip's "It Was I" and Buzz Clifford's "Baby Sittin' Boogie". These were all just local kids made good, but individually they would be involved with some fantastic records in the near future. The scene would reach an early climax with a pair of singles attributed to the Hollywood Argyles-- "Alley Oop" and "Hully Gully"-- that seemingly half of Hollywood claims to have played on. The inclusion of both these cuts on the Beach Boys' Party! album attests to their significance.

Anyway I'm probably yapping too much. Great idea for a thread though, Craig!

Thank you for a very informative and worthwhile post, Craig, and thanks to Jason for some excellent follow-up comments.

Yes, Bruce has been coasting for many years now, but it would be great to read more about his experiences in the music business, especially from the 50's through the 70's, in the form of an autobiography.

I purchased the late Bob Keane's autobiography, The Oracle of Del-Fi, when it was published a number of years ago, but have not yet gotten around to reading it.  I do recall hearing the story where Bob Keane called Bruce, probably sometime in the mid to late nineties, to discuss re-releasing some of Bruce's Del-Fi work, to which Bruce screamed into the phone, "You son of a bitch, you still owe me (don't recall the amount, but maybe a few hundred) dollars!"  Bruce had remembered the exact amount from way back when, so Keane immediately paid up and the re-releases went forward.

Just as with bruce's acetate collection, I doubt we'll ever see an autobiography from him.

I dont' need to reevaluate it.  Bruce is awesome.

Ive re-evaluated his clapping and don't appreciate the effort.

If people seem to diss Bruce in 2014, it's simply because of who he is in 2014, not  because we're not aware of his past accomplishments. The guy was a very good musician, singer, and arranger, but those days are long gone.

Bruce`s early career certainly shouldn`t be forgotten. A very talented guy and he did some great work with Terry Melcher.

Incidentally, The Vettes album Rev-up is on youtube in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk7lH4QecCQ

I think most people are aware of Bruce's long and successful history and the fact he's talented guy, but if they're not, this is a good reminder.

Clearly, his time with the band hasn't always been comfortable (he wasn't first choice to begin with; they (Carl?) tried to ditch him in favour of Billy Hinsche in the late 60s); he left in the early 70s (and if you read comments by Dennis and Mike, there was clearly more to this than his distrust of Jack Rieley or Rieley playing up Brian's role), yet he never fully left, appearing on all the studio albums bar MIU (wise choice) but including POB and turning up for the odd live show, before returning. He takes a bit of a hammering on here for the sentimental nature of his songs - and I'm one of those who like Tears in the Morning (!) - but I do wonder why he hasn't written more in the past God-knows-how-many years.

   Was Bruce on LOVE YOU?

I`ll Bet He`s Nice

A little list of Bruce's 45 output can be found here http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384 (http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384)

Thanks for this link. A very informative site and particularly useful to have all of the writing credits there as well.

  Thanks. Yes I can hear him.


  I've speculated on this before, were Carl and Bruce ever especially close?

Great List!  For me tho, it would be better if you could re-order them to run from earliest to most current; is that possible? 

Also, I can proviide you scans for some of the ones you don't have pictured, if you can crop them. I can't seem to find a program that lets me do just the circular labels ( which is why I haven't posted ANY pics on 45cat...)

Click on: Sort by: release date

I'd love to read a memoir from Bruce.

A memoir is different than an autobiography -- Bruce could cover in a memoir only those periods in his life that he wishes to cover, as Dylan did in his 'Chronicles'. I'm not particularly interested in reading about Bruce's childhood, or about touring with Mike's version of the Beach Boys in the present day, but i'd be very interested in tales of the small group of teenagers who pretty much invented the LA rock n roll scene in the late '50's, or of the college guys in the early 60's who were inspired by Brian's sound and turned that sound into a highly popular pop sub-genre -- all of which Bruce was centrally involved in.

Phil Spector, Kim Fowley, Jan Berry, Terry Melcher, P.F. Sloan -- Bruce must be sitting on a wealth of historical insights.

I like his voice a lot. Disney Girls and Deirdre are both good songs

I'd like to know more about this. I always thought he left because he didn't like the direction Rieley was taking the band at the time, but didn't know (or forgot) that there were issues with the band members too. Was it personality differences or artistic differences or both?

Bruce is probably the one that is most enjoyable band member to make fun of, but I do believe he's actually quite talented.
He's excellent at playing keyboards ("Wild Honey," "The Nearest Faraway Place") and is also a very competent bass player.

Not to mention the three wonderful songs he contributed from '70-'71, which I think all are top-notch.

ahh, easy; if you know what to do.  Thanxx! 

Now, is there an easy way to get the site to show the credits?  I click around and usually get to the writing credits, but it seems to be a different route each time. 

I think I remember Dennis and Mike's comments from AGD and John Tobler's book, though I think they were taken from another source. They weren't exactly hostile to Bruce, but it was clear his absence was no loss - which in itself I find interesting because of the much trumpeted (by Rieley) Rieley era split between Love/Johnston/Jardine on the one hand and the Wilsons and Rieley on the other. Of course, Bruce was already on stuff recorded for CATP and after he leaves, he turns up on Holland a few months later...

Fantastic piano, keyboard, and my favorite BB organ player!
Wonderful harmony singer ( can sing and blend into just about any part)
Talented song writer and producer

Great singer and musician. Had some fine moments in songwriting too, but overall not very impressive (hard to compete with the Wilsons and the occasional good song by Al and Mike).

A bit of a dork at times also it seems (imo), but I'm sure the kind of people he frequents with really enjoy his company so good on him!

Remember how he went all "i'm still 18" on us in that That's why God made the Radio teaser reel that they released just before the album came out?  There's a video of him siging falsetto in part of it.  He sounds great on stuff like "Spring Vacation" too.  I believe the word somebody used above was "coasting" and that's true.  When you've got dozens of songs to sing that fans love, I guess some people (Bruce) just figure hell why try to top it, why try to do anything new when everybody already loves all this stuff and we can't sing it all in concert anyways?

Well, as a musician with about eight fans, as compared to Bruce's likely thousands of fans, I know that I make music because I love doing it. And I'd assume a guy like him would do it because he loves it too. And I also think that, yeah whoopty-doo, he's got "dozens of songs to sing that fans love," but interesting ZERO of those are his. Just like the guy at the cover band at the bar down the street. He's got dozens of songs to sing that fans love too, but I'd bet that guy would feel more fulfilled if they were singing HIS songs rather than Nickelback's. And please, let's not kid ourselves that most of the hicks that are going to the Bumfuck County Fair have any interest in hearing "Disney Girls," or even have any clue what "Disney Girls" is. In fact if they were asked about the album that it appeared on (Surf's Up) they'd probably guess it was a 1963 album or a hits album. And on top of that, of the songs that they play live at the Mike n' Bruce "Beach Boys" gigs, probably about five of them even have him on them. So for Bruce not to do new music because he is basically a musician covering music he wasn't originally involved with is kinda a shitty excuse.

But yeah, he sounds great on "Spring Vacation" and the falsetto from "Bill & Sue."

Does anyone know any info about Bruce's childhood? I know he was adopted at a young age, but have the details surrounding that ever been discussed by Bruce? I imagine it's a sensitive topic, so maybe lots of this has never been made public.

You're right... your way of doing music is more noble than Bruce's. 

Bruce grew up in Beverly Hills and was adopted by a family with ties to the Rexall drug chain, which was all over the United States decades ago. Suffice to say his childhood was financially comfortable. How happy, he's never said.

Just adding to that bio info, Bruce was adopted in Chicago where his adoptive father was an executive with the Walgreens drugstore chain, then the family moved to the Beverly Hills area when his adoptive father took a job with Rexall. From one source he actually took over as president of Rexall.

More to add to the discussion, but consider the way fate and time and everything else came together to put all of these musicians together at just the right time to create the scene that they did, the scene which turned into one of the biggest teen and pop music scenes of all time coming from one area and from a comparatively small group of young musicians. Bruce being adopted and moving from Chicago to CA, Terry's jazz musician father leaving him and his mother and severing contact, Doris remarrying and ending up in CA, Phil Spector having one of the biggest long-shot and fluke national smash hit records of all time with a girl named Annette Kleinbard, scoring an apprenticeship under Leiber and Stoller, then returning to LA to take the orchestral techniques he observed from Leiber and Stoller and creating his "Wall", Jan Berry and Dean Torrance connecting, then Dean leaves for the military, Jan records with Arnie, they also have an indie fluke hit record, Dean returns...and they make even bigger hit records, Kim Fowley, Sandy Nelson records a demo with Bruce that becomes another nationwide fluke hit record...

It's all pretty amazing. Consider how many kids (and that's basically what they were in the late 50's) today or even in the past 30 years have done anything close to what this group of teenagers did and cracked the record business independent of the usual system in place in the 50's and had hit records, not only that but created a scene, with what amounted to the kind of bands that exist all over the US in high schools, basements, garages, etc. Pretty amazing, as I said in the first post.

And consider too what a wealth of information a guy like Bruce could be should he ever be persuaded to put pen to paper and document these teenage years in the music business, when he knew Spector as this fellow student musician playing guitar in his bedroom with his friends:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/phil1_zpsbc8151d1.jpg)

Great early picture of Phil. he really looks like a starry eyed kid, not the tycoon of teen.


PS.- He looked best with his flattop, not his wigs. ;D

Bruce did say a few years ago that he was planning to write a book about his time in the music business. I expect it to be published on the same day that his non-solo solo album is released...

It gets even more fascinating for those into the bigger history of pop music to trace what happened to these musicians in the decades after they hit the charts as teenagers. Take just one example, and the connections get pretty interesting considering how they crossed paths years later.

Annette Kleinbard, the singer on "To Know Him Is To Love Him" by the Teddy Bears, the voice that inspired Spector to write that song:

(https://joetroiano.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/1208949.jpg)

Notice another shot of teenage Phil.  :)

So Annette sang lead on that record, it was a major hit, then she changed her name to Carol Connors. Elvis Presley was so taken by that record that he asked his people to contact her, and they met when he returned from the Army, then had something of a relationship according to some sources.

Then Annette/Carol wrote a song called "Hey Little Cobra", which went to a group called the Rip Chords, but the record was actually Bruce Johnston and Terry Melcher singing leads and harmonies (which Melcher had to lie about to Columbia because he and Bruce apparently were not allowed to be 'artists' on this record they were hired to produce, or something).

So another connection from that core group of Hollywood classmates and friends came about 5 years later as Bruce and Terry's voices piloted a hit record written by one of the late 50's gang onto the charts.

And just over ten years later, Annette/Carol had another co-writing credit on a song everybody with a pulse has heard, one of the most memorable film soundtrack songs in history: "Gonna Fly Now", aka the theme from "Rocky".

Connections like this are all over the place when you get into the history and details, and again it's fascinating stuff for those interested, all coming from a small group of Hollywood teenagers in the late 50's.

I respect Bruce's pre BB career but anytime I see him now all I can think of is that he's the Paul Stanley to Mike Love's Gene Simmons.

Riding Mike's coattails in the unpopular cover version of the band, happy to let Mike run his mouth (ala Gene Simmons) taking the heat while silently (well, when not growling about politics) Bruce just says and does nothing but stand next to Mike in the photos.

If that sounds harsh, oh well, I'm just being honest with what I see.  Bruce had a interesting early career pre BB's and then just punched his ticket on the BB gravy train.  Bruce feels like an equal to Mike Kowalski.

Also, Mike Meros was a much better organ player than Bruce.

"Flame on, flame on flamers"

Does the definition of "riding coattails" include winning a Grammy in 1977 for Song Of The Year, which had nothing to do with the Beach Boys?  :)

Basic Bruce solo discog (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/bruce.html)

Maybe... I should just close 10452 down: evidently no-one goes there any more.

gosh that was like Beach Boys just far worse.

well gee whillikers beav! even I can see that NDD wrote >>anytime I see him now <<  so unless you're still living in the 70's, I don't see your point

nahh, don't get all het up; your site is easier to read the credits, but you're missing some of the listings on 45cat, and your pics of the labels arent near as clear

It's common knowledge that his real name is Benjamin Baldwin.

That's because...

1 - I've stuck with the US (that is, canonical) discography...

2 - because there aren't any ?  ;D

"Ward, I think you're coming down too hard on the Beaver..." This is what I replied to:


That's just inaccurate.

Yep!  As your site states:  >>The releases detailed below are only those featuring Bruce as a major vocal performer (his backing vocal and production credits are too many to detail here - maybe later...).  <<  
 and that's why dogear's listings at  45cat are more complete, as he includes writing and production credits, and of course, usually, the aforementioned label scans

Perhaps now that you have so much more time on your hands, you can get down to the real nitty gritty and do a site expansion!

"Beaver, what does that mean?"
 "I don't know, but whenever I say it, everybody leaves the room!"
IE; you specified "riding coattails" which preceded the "gravy train" line

Exactly.

It had nothing to do with the Beach Boys.

Bruce should be respected as a career musician I suppose but Blondie is more of a Beach Boy to me in terms of musicianship, songwriting and overall impact on the groups sound and catalog.  Bruce's songs sound like Bruce Johnston songs on Beach Boys albums, not Beach Boys songs.

When I look back over the last 40 years of me following the band, I'm missing that "BRUCE!" moment.  Like I said, Bruce is no different than Mike Kowalski.

I don't think Bruce's role in the Beach Boys was what I was thinking of when I wrote the original post, in fact Bruce's role as a band member seems to have been in flux since 1965 when he was asked to fill in for Brian after Glen left that position. So it's not really about that, at least for me, but rather trying to show a larger picture of what he had done musically especially before the Beach Boys were even a thought.

Consider Carl was probably in the 5th or 6th grade and watching Hopalong Cassidy and other wersterns on UHF television when Bruce was playing and recording with some of the same musicians who would later be hired to play on Brian's productions, those guys like Steve Douglas, and was with Jan Berry before Brian ever met him. It's just the nature of where Bruce grew up and the circle of friends he had who went on to become some of the most important musicians in the LA scene from the 60's onward.

I also think of Bruce in a role every winning baseball team has on their roster, that of the "utility man". It isn't a superstar player, it isn't that of a daily starter who is in the lineup every game, but there are those key players who come off the bench to pinch hit in key situations, or who fill in when the starters are out in a variety of positions. Every great team has them, and they are crucial when they're called on to play their role, the most obvious being the pinch hitters who sit on the bench most of the time yet deliver when needed.

When they needed Bruce to produce in the late 70's, he did what was asked. When he was needed to play or sing a backing vocal or do anything else in the studio, he did it.

So I don't really see an expectation there from either Bruce or the band where he was to play a more dominant role in shaping their sound or doing something beyond what he was asked to contribute. Was that ever to be part of the "deal" he had with or within the band's structure, any more than Glen Campbell played some live shows with them, left and was replaced by Bruce in the same role, then went back to doing his studio gigs and cutting solo records before hitting it big?

The fact that - as mentioned - Bruce found success and steady work unrelated to the Beach Boys before, during, and after the Beach Boys' career path in the 60's and 70's speaks to this bigger picture of his own musical career. Yet when he was called on or hired to do something for the band in some capacity, he did it.

Was there something he should have been doing that he didn't do in his role as a Beach Boy, or is that more a case of fans putting an expectation in place that was never there in the first place?

I guess I don't see the need to compare or contrast Bruce with Blondie or whoever else related to the BB's when that was never the issue of the conversation.

I just want to say this - in hindsight I didn't mean to come into this thread and crap all over it so let me apologize for that.

I stand by what I say about Bruce and his role in the Beach Boys but that takes nothing from his contribution to the Southern California music scene in the early 1960's.  For me, separating the two is necessary and I agree that Bruce was a "player" in SoCal early on so credit is definitely due him for those contributions.

Paint.NET does a good job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFzrpsdVOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFzrpsdVOs)

Yes, Thanxx.  Unfortunately, and I don't know why, this won't download and open on my computer. I've tried several times in the past, and, just now. 
Maybe on the next one... 

Great post. "Utility Men" in rock are often the backbones for which much functionality can be attributed.... Guys like Doug Yule, Bruce, George Harrison, etc ...... versatile players/singers who keep things solid and filled-in regardless if they ever get the spotlight.

Light Album being in my top 5 BB's albums, it's hard for me not to love Bruce...

He's damaged his own reputation, to a large extent, by allowing himself to be seem primarily as Mike's clapping, mic adjusting lackey.

I think I "get" what Bruce's role was in the Beach Boys' working frame from 1965-85, songwriting-speaking. When you are in a band with three Wilsons and two other songwriters, you are lucky to get one song per album and that was pretty much what Bruce got (Sunflower being the exception).

When Bruce returned as the producer from 1978-1980, I can also understand why he would devote more time to that role than as a songwriter, although I thought he would've had a stockpile of songs that he was dying to get recorded BY THE BEACH BOYS. Again he was back to no songs on L.A. Light Album and one song on KTSA.

What I still don't understand and it continues to rarely if ever be discussed is why Bruce virtually disappeared as a songwriter over the last almost 30 years. On Still Cruisin', Dennis was deceased and Brian wasn't really a Beach Boy....but no Bruce songs. On Summer In Paradise, no new Dennis songs, no new Brian songs, no new Carl songs, and the ONLY Bruce song is a semi-rewrite of "One Summer Night". And, finally, 20 years after Summer In Paradise, a new Beach Boys' album is being planned/recorded and the only contribution from Bruce is the (rumored) re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again". I realize it was the intention of TWGMTR to be a Brian Wilson-driven vehicle, but I believe that if Bruce had a really strong NEW song to contribute to the album, it would've been considered.

I know it's a matter of opinion, but I think all of Bruce's Beach Boys' songs are excellent; not in the class of Brian and Dennis, but excellent. Where did Bruce's songwriting go? No Beach Boys' songs, no solo albums, no other artists recording BJ songs. I never really viewed Bruce as a singer, although he contributed some nice lines here and there. I never considered him to be a virtuoso musician, but he is/was probably the best musician of the group. And, I never cared for his production. I think the decision to have Bruce produce L.A. Light Album and Keepin' The Summer Alive was a big mistake. Both albums are lifeless.

I always viewed and respected Bruce as a songwriter. Come on, "Disney Girls", "I Write The Songs", "Deidre".... I even like "The Nearest Faraway Place".:o It's not that Bruce didn't or doesn't have the time. Where'd ya go, Bruce?

He went on the never ending M&B "Beach Boys tour!

I think Bruce is a remarkable musician who have been involved in the creation of a lot of classics. He's slowed down a bit, and his decision to tour with Mike as the Beach Boys is not my cup of tea, but, looking at the group members objectively, each of them can be faulted for their activities somewhere down the line. For me, Bruce's contributions to Sunflower put that album over the top as the group's best, schmaltz and all.

What I enjoy most about Bruce is his voice as a backing vocalist/role player. His contributions to "California Girls" and "Pet Sounds" as a bv, for instance. Or his singing on the Sagittarius "Present Tense" album. He had a unique, boyish tenor that works well in spots. I'm not sure it was the type of voice that could sustain an album as a lead, but he was okay on the lead vocals on his BB album songs.

Not essential maybe. But he made the BBs more interesting. An excellent musician, songwriter and singer. A seminal figure in the late 50s teen scene. He did his best to survive in the midst of the insanity that is the BBs... And succeeded. IMO, Mike's touring BBs are better with Bruce on board.

Sometimes, musicians just dry up. The inspiration just stops coming. That seems to be the case with Bruce. Probably has no desire to write songs, he knows they're not going to get played on mainstream radio; no desire to prove himself as a piano player; doesn't feel the need to do a lot of lead singing. Kind of frustrating, I mean, even Mike comes up with a new song every few years.

Composers, like everyone else, have strong and less strong periods of creativity.  And, speculation about what one is, working on is just that, speculation.  Many people work under a nom de plume or alias when they write; Reggie Dunbar! Mark Twain!

And, I'm thinking like a city girl, now.  What I think he might have brought to the BB table, was "street cred" in the music business, maybe not as a star, but with nuts-and-bolts working industry knowledge and not needing a "geography or history lesson" which you just can't learn in a book.

As far as telling that "Oracle of Del-Fi" off ( and I cracked up with the metaphor, not ever having heard of the book) was good for him to "call him out" from having him defraud a worker, especially a young one. I'd rather someone "in my face," than "behind my back," any day of the week!  :lol

We mostly (or I have ) often learned the "hard way," the school of "hard-knocks,"  but it is the way to best learn what "not to do" or act.

  Bruce was a steady but not prolific songwriter during what one might call his years as a young adult. "The Nearest Faraway Place", "Deirdre", "Tears in the Morning", "Disney Girls", and "I Write the Songs" all display the craftsmanship of classic pop. It's possible his skills in this sense surpassed those of Mike, Al, Carl, and Dennis, but not Brian. If you are looking for rock & roll, move on, but Bruce is a talent.

 He had it in him to make a better album than Going Public in 1977, although it is not exactly a poor effort either.

 :lol that guy on the right looks like a kid I know

Perhaps he's not inspired to write any music?  After all, the band he tours with is primarily a live act.  There are very little opportunities for any new music to make it's way anywhere. By the time TWGMTR came along, I think Bruce knew that it was going to be the Brian/Mike show all the way and there'd be no room for his input.   I'd bet Bruce has written a few things over the years that he's stockpiled by now I just don't think there's a valid outlet for him anymore and he's adjusted to that.

He could get a room with Mike and they could write together...

This is what I've been screaming forever!!!!

Bruce and the Lovester should be locked in a room and forced to come out with 10 or so tunes and bang out a "Beach Boys album with their road band!

Didn't Bruce say long a go on the TV show "Fridays" that his music is "too smooth" for The Beach Boys (am looking for the clip) ?

Maybe he still thinks so.

I realise that the upload quality sucks, but here's Bruce's comment from American Bandstand:

http://youtu.be/sUFVJH6mZrc?t=17m32s (http://youtu.be/sUFVJH6mZrc?t=17m32s)

But I would think smooth is what Mike wants. He's not exactly Mr. AOR Heavy Guitar.

Something tells me Bruce and Mike's ideas of smooth are still quite different.....

Hence, Bruce's trailer isn't quite as frequently occupied......

He's played a role on some of the biggest selling records of all time. His backing vocals to California Girls and God Only Knows are greater contributions to music than any original song by an unsigned, unknown artist.

If not for a writing a few pop gems in the 60s and 70s, Bruce will be remembered as a principal voice on the some of the most beloved recordings of the twentieth-century. That's quite a feat.

Why do all musicians have to be songwriters?

Great question! With practically every other band, one's contributions as a mere musician or singer have garnered folks high praise and respect, but when it comes to The Beach Boys, it's small potatoes to have sung and played on some of the most earth shatteringly successful music to ever rock the world. Too many fans have reduced it all to "who wrote what" and credit credit credit, credit!!

It's also worth mentioning Bruce supported Brian in the Pet Sounds/SMiLE times.

Errr.....nobody is doubting his great vocal work. It's the fact that he has considered himself a "songwriter" yet the only thing that has been released as written by him in the past 20 years is the song "My Heart" by Doris Day. And that was recorded in the '80s!

The fact is, nobody is talking sh*t about him (well at least not me). It's the fact that he's wasted many, many years just adjusting his mic and clapping. Of course, as he's a man who's now over 70 years old, I don't expect a thing of him. But it's a shame, because he does (did?) have talent. And I think it's always a shame when a talented person doesn't share that talent with the world.

Ah yes, the eternal mystery that is Bruce.

My impression is that Bruce was a student of songcraft. He thought about song construction, he analyzed how other writers went about it, he worked at developing his skills over a period of years -- and finally, he himself, while in his late twenties, became a solid pop craftsman (Dierdre, Tears in the Morning, Disney Girls, I Write the Songs). And then, basically, silence.

I can understand an "inspiration" writer -- Richard Manuel might be an example -- drying up. It's harder to understand why a songcraft writer, who worked hard over some years at developing a skill, would then abandon all that hard work and not exercise that skill.

Bruce probably didn't write songs simply for the love of creating -- most highly respected musicians are EXPECTED to be songwriters. Perhaps he felt he could achieve greater prestige by composing, but realized the only glory he would ever truly achieve would be as a second string member of The Beach Boys. He wasn't going to be another Brian.

Of course, he didn't have to quit composing, but he recognized he made his contributions and moved on to more enjoyable endeavors. Nothing he would write would get released anyway. His style of writing really isn't in vogue any longer. The only outlet he has is The Beach Boys, and that is too dominated by the Brian cult to accept his contributions, especially in the less desperate later days.

It's just frustrating, because we as fans have seen/heard Bruce's potential for great work (and he has done great work), but the quantity level has been unusually and frustratingly small, almost as it was with Carl. With Carl, it seemed he had a lot more on his plate in terms of family stuff which probably played a role in keeping him from writing more. With Bruce, it seemingly remains a mystery... and thus, we uber fans grumble about missed opportunities (despite still being lucky as hell for as much music as we have from Bruce and the Boys).

It may be as simple as him not feeling the need to "prove" himself musically anymore or something like that. I dunno. It is a bummer though, because I really like his material, including his contributions to BB85 + SIP. Seriously.

I know it was Bruce (along with Terry + Mike) aping Brian's sound, but damn if it isn't frustrating that the guy who wrote "Don't Run Away" didn't write more songs like that for the band.

I don't know if anyone genuinely wants more Bruce songs (moar Tears in the morning yay!) or is just frustrated by the fact that a guy simply doesn't want to write songs. We put artists on such a high pedestal that is frightening why one would choose not to create, especially one with the potential to.

His best songs are good, but I don't turn in my bed at night wanting more.

Well put!

Or maybe Bruce just ended up taking his utility guy role seriously and realized it was more his thing.... I dunno

Carl, Dennis, Brian, Al, and Mike all wrote using outside collaborators. If Bruce was having trouble starting or finishing songs, I don't know why he didn't just hook-up with his own version of Andy Paley or Scott Bennett.  Or why he didn't co-write with Mike, or re-establish his writing partnership with Terry.

The post-Brian Beach Boys of the 80's and 90's did have room on their records for contributions from Bruce. Why he didn't take advantage is again, unknown.

I'd be interested to hear him interviewed on the subject.

This is all part of why I'm curious as to Bruce's beginnings (pre adoption) and childhood, stuff that apparently has been kept private all these years (and that's of course entirely Bruce's right)... because I feel we'd all have a better understanding of the guy's actions, perhaps.

Kinda like Mike Love and the Wilsons, where lots of puzzling decisions they've made over the years can at least partially be understood by what they went through in their formative years.

Bruce remains very mysterious (maybe moreso than anyone else in the band), and maybe that's how he wants it.  But as a fan, I'd sure like to know more about why he does what he does.

great thread by the way!

who knows, Bruce may have a pile of original songs sitting somewhere, I mean, who knows what the guy has been doing creatively
over the last 20-30 years.......... if he does have things there, it could be possible he may think 'they are not good enough' as in maybe
comparing his work to Brian-Dennis Wilson/Mike Love......

and maybe they aren't BB classic material, but doesn't mean those possible songs are not great on their own merit....

I personally love the Doris Day 'My Heart' album.........if that's where Bruce (and Terry) 'was at' with his music, I'd love lots more....

obviously the Bruce and Terry partnership continued on over the years, so I wonder what else they had worked on that we have not heard...

talking about Bruce being the mysterious one....... it's also interesting to me, in some ways, Bruce is the grounded one of the group...

who else in a successful band like The BB's, would travel to the following shows by train or bus?.....

he could obviously afford his own cheauffer or bus/plane, but apparently he still likes uses public transport........travel and see the world so to speak...


an interesting man....... I wish he wrote a book of his life experiences...........who he worked with etc etc

would probably be a wonderful insight to the unknown side of Bruce Johnston...

RickB

Maybe it's like Bruce described in Endless Harmony and now he has songs that went #1 in his living room and disappeared.

"I have nothing in the 'can' from long ago except "If There Were Time"....However, I have all kinds of instrumentals here in my home studio 'can'.....They are kind of interesting".

Bruce Johnston, 2007

Omigod, that is hilarious!

Hm. He seems to have forgotten about "Let's Visit Heaven Tonite", also from 1978.

Holy crap, that's a cheesy title. :lol

It's pleasant enough in an innocuous way.

That pretty much goes for all his BBs contributions, I guess. :) Next to the great melodies and production values it's also the 'cheese factor' I like in "Disney Girls (1957)", "Tears In The Morning" and "Deirdre".. and, well, "Deirdre" just rocks. :-D

I don' t see anyone discussing SBILA from 85.  a fine Bruce tune IMO.  A single in it's day, and I hear it was bought out again around the time of the c50 sessions but reshelved.