The Smiley Smile Message Board

(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z353/SupremeKingDan/MikeistheBeachBoys_zps10c4356a.jpg)

What if Brian continued to collaborate with Mike Love for Pet Sounds and SMiLE? Would they have still happened? Would they be as good? "I'm Waiting For the Day" shows Mike could handle a Pet Sounds melody ok. The recycling of the SMiLE material throughout the years, from the reworking of some tracks on Smiley and the Wild Honey sessions in particular, shows the potential of what Mike's lyrics for those tracks may have been.

Picture SMiLE with alternate lyrics for H&V, VT, CIFOTM, Cabin Essence, and Wonderful. Imagine the Elements Suite as it was intended (a continuous 4 part instrumental, running about 4 minutes I'd guess, do to Fire's length and the need for balance). Replace Wind Chimes with some finished version of Can't Wait Too Long, He Gives Speeches with She's Goin Bald, Do You Like Worms with some fully formed version of Whistle In...etc, etc.

Could such a thing have made as big of a splash in 1967 as they were hoping? Would it have come out in Spring '67 or January? If January, would it have been too early and ignored at the time? If in Spring, could it have stolen Pepper's thunder?

Furthermore, with the band much more united, is Brian's meltdown as dramatic? Does the band end up playing Monterey and keeping their goodwill?

(Photo courtesy of Judd)

Do we really need this???

Seriously! Please think about it! With all the Mike-centric fireworks going on here, is this really the best course of action ?

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I thought you'd enjoy talking about this as much as anyone.

I didn't mean to stir the pot, it's just something I've been thinking about and wondering what people thought.

"Well, she got her daddy's turnip and she chewed 'til it really looked gnawed now…
Seems she forgot all about the old zucchini that she used to eat raw now,
And with the potato mashing goes souping just as fast as she can now
And she'll have caul-li-flower til her daddy takes the turnip away…"
B. Wilson/M. Love

"Hanging down from my surf board,
Those are my toupees…"
B. Wilson/M. Love

"I'm gonna be round my surfer girl,
I'll go down on my surfer girl,
I love you most of all -
My favourite surfer girl"
B. Wilson/M. Love/D. Wilson

Gosh the possibilities…

OK, fine! This thread gets a thumbs up!  ;D

 :lol
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell .... well, you're welcome,
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell .... well, you're welcome,
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell .... well, you're welcome,
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell .... you're welcome to come.
B. Wilson/M. Love/D. Wilson

Best post of the last three-and-a-half millennia!

Will MLPS premiere at seaworld this year?

"The Old Master Killer Whale"
"Love To Say Orca"
"Mrs O Leary's Fish-tank"

im a seed of a juicy fruit
I send vibes out of love and truth
how deep is the sunset
how deep will my love get
it fills my soul, hey hey heyyyy

ill meditate so I can live,
these things i'll be so I can live
these things i'll be so I can live
these things i'll be so I can live........ (M.Love)

RickB

Isn't It Nice To Live (D. Wilson/M. Love)

roll shamu, roll over.

Mike Love Presents: Pet Sounds 2014!

1. Isn't It Nice
2. You've Always Believed In Me
3. That's Me
4. Talk All You Want (With Your Head On My Shoulder)
5. I'm Enjoying The Day
6. Let's Stay Here Forever
7. Sloop Jai Guru Dev
8. Allah Already Knows (How Great I Am With You)
9. Maharishi Knows The Answer
10. I'm Just So With These Times
11. Pet Sounds
12. Caroline, Yes!

BONUS TRACKS

*Trombone Maharishi
* Hang Onto Your Turban

♬ ♫ ♪
I know so many people
who think they can fly on their own
they levitate themselves
without Maharishi's code...
♪ ♬ ♫

Let's make this album to pay tribute to Mike's Ella award! ;D

I would love to hear him sing "I'm Just So With These Times."

It is very much an open question in my mind what role Mike Love played in the composition of the Beach Boys Today. On stylistic grounds, I'm confident that Mike made a major contribution to Kiss Me Baby, and that he contributed relatively little to In the Back of My Mind. But for some of the other songs I think it's hard to say. But there is no doubt in my mind that the same balance of composing could have been applied to Pet Sounds, because Today has a similar level of lyrical sophistication. But Brian needed Tony Asher as more than a lyricist, he was also a friend, someone to hang out with, talk things through with, bounce ideas off of. It was a time-consuming process, and Mike was in Japan with the Beach Boys. Pet Sounds wasn't the kind of thing you could get done in back rooms and cabs between gigs, so for Mike to work on the project, the band would have had to take a break from touring. So it would have meant changes in the Beach Boys methods and course beyond just switching lyricists.

As for Smile, I think it is no diss on Mike Love to say that Mike's talents and interests were fundamentally incompatible with Smile as Brian and conceived it on a fundamental level. Smile with Mike Love lyrics wouldn't have been Smile, it would have had to be something completely different.

Most level headed and logical post on such a topic in ....... forever!

Big thumb's up here.

I think Mike was definitely capable of writing lyrics just as good on Pet Sounds. Smile may not have been as out there as Van Dykes, but his lyrics for Good Vibrations shows that he could make poetic and thoughtful lyrics. I don't know what SMiLE would have been but I still believe it would have been an incredible album. Perhaps Heroes and Villains would have been Mike's lyrics about Cowboys and indians that made sense yet still were creative. This is assuming Mike wanted to write these kinds of lyrics. And to BJL's point, perhaps a break from the road in late 66 wouldn't have been a bad idea for the band at the time. Take a few months to develop this master piece with Brian and update their image.

Agreed!

Brian was in charge and SMILE would have been whatever it would have been regardless of who penned the lyrics. Brian's music wouldn't have allowed for much traditional lyrical content.... Besides, concerning SMILE's alleged themes: all that was better served on Holland anyhow, so maybe fate played a fair hand after all.

OK, I am running for the hills now ;)

Mike's 60s wheelhouse was lyrics about (1) the Southern California teenage lifestyle ( "Fun Fun Fun', 'I Get Around' ) and (2) boy/girl romance. He could even go introspective and metaphoric on the romantic stuff ('Warmth of the Sun').

Whatever happened to Mike's introspective, sensitive side in his lyric writing? He would never be able to write VDP-style (panoramic, symbolist) , but Mike writing consistently at the top of his 1965-67 game was capable of Tony Asher-quality stuff. If only Mke had continued to develop that side of his muse, instead of falling back on the formulaic.

maybe Mike does have a collection of 'heavy' unreleased lyrics we don't know about...
now wouldn't that be something to speculate on especially after he passes on in this world..??...???

maybe Mike just presented what he had to keep the signature group going on for the last 50 years....

who knows what might be in the Mike Love vaults.....

RickB

Thank you for offering the first real response. I agree. The more I think about it, Pet Sounds probably didn't need to be an outside collaboration...as long as Brian expressed the desire to go for a different style and Mike didn't object. SMiLE wouldn't have been the mythical masterpiece it is now had Mike written it, but it might still have been a great album. I doubt Surf's Up would've been made at all, I doubt there would be an Americana suite or anything like that. Who knows?

Oh, come on! SMILE would have been great with Mike!!!!

MIKE LOVE PRESENTS: SMILE 2014

1. Our Beach Prayer
2. Surf Heroes And Hodads
3. Do You Like Surfer Girls
5. I'm In Great Shape
6. Barnyard Surf Party
7. The Old Master Surfer
8. Cruisin' Essence
9. Baby You Look Wonderful
10. Locked In (Song For Surfers)
11. Surf's Up (And I'm Heading Out)
12. I Wanna Be Around/Surf shop
13. Surfin Days
14. Wind Chimes
15. The Elements: Girls (Mrs O'Leary's Daughter)
Cars, Surf
16. Love To Say "You're Looking Fine Mama"!
17. Good Vibrations

I do think that Mike had the potential to write more sensitive lyrics. "Kiss Me, Baby" and "Warmth of the Sun" are among my favorite Beach Boys songs. The question I have is about Brian's perception of Pet Sounds as a very personal expression. It seems to me that he wanted it to reflect personal thoughts about what was going on in his own life, and that requires a certain vulnerability.  

If you're going for something a bit more personal, and you have this strange dysfunctional family relationship with your main lyricist, I could see seeking out someone you might feel safer with. Even someone you don't really know that well, if they share some of your insights,  would be less intimidating than letting your alpha male cousin see your more exposed, vulnerable side. Especially when you're supposed to be the group leader. Add to that the fact that the Boys were on the road most of the time, and I could see how this would evolve the way it did.

With SMiLE, you really have a similar thing. This was to be Brian's creative masterpiece and would once again require putting something of himself on the line.  From personal experience, I know how painful it can be to take that kind of risk and have people who matter doubt the effort. I just wonder if the family dysfunction made it impossible for Brian to feel safe enough to work with Mike as a collaborator on two very personal projects.  

Great post! :thumbsup Especially the part about the Beach Boys having to stop touring for quite a while to get Mike to work on a project of that ambitious scale makes total sense. If you take into account how different their personalities are and what Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks reported what the writing sessions with Brian were like, Brian would have probably driven Mike nuts with his behavior. Mike wouldn't have understood why Brian behaved that way.

I think though that had Mike collaborated with Brian for SMiLE, the result would have matched the positive title actually more than it does now. IMHO the title "Dumb Angel" fit Brian's and Van Dyke's collaborations way more than "SMiLE".

And Mike could do more sensitive lyrics if he was asked to, there's many examples. IMHO Mike could have done better lyrics for DYLW and Wonderful than Van Dyke, and equally as good ones for Cabin Essence. The one thing that Mike could never have done is Surf's Up.

Would SMiLE have been finished in 1967 if Mike had done the lyrics? I doubt it, as Brian's mental state was the main obstacle to that.

You got that right!

Surf's Up is pure lyrical genius! No one but VDP would have done THAT!

I actually disagree with the idea that Mike could write better lyrics for Worms and CE. Wonderful, maybe. And yeah, there would've been no Surfs Up, that's for sure. I think perhaps SMiLE would've been just as melancholy for the Childhood songs but probably more patriotic and fun for the Americana songs.

Dumb Angel was a great name, but SMiLE fits too. It's sort of a statement that appearances are deceiving. Behind the simplistic cover and happy, unassuming title is some of the most complex pop arrangements of all time with a dose of angst (child sections) and fear (Fire.) It also ties in with Tim Leary's S.M.I^2.L.E. philosophy, intentionally or not, and both were inspired by and a celebration of mind expansion through psychedelics.

The stereotype we have in mind of a Mike Love lyric really wasn't true in the 60's. It's something that came to the fore after the success of Endless Summer. There was nothing wrong with the lyrics Mike was writing for the Beach Boys songs in the 60's. I don't really see any problem with them until the Surf's Up album. Reilly told them they needed to get relevant...so we got the preachy lyrics of Don't Go Near the Water and Student Demonstration Time. Mike had a few good lyrics after that - Only With You comes to mind - but by and large, he was on the road to self parody.

Well, that's OK with me. :) DYLW has - IMHO - really bad lyrics, that's why I think Mike's would have been better, and I said "equally as good" lyrics for CE, not better ones (nitpickingly said). :wink