The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've been interested in checking out their music for a while; thanks to this board (probably), I was able to move past the stigma that exists around the band. They're one of the great, 60's pop bands that I haven't dug into yet. 

At a record store on Saturday, I finally picked up my first Monkees album:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/815/MI0001815831.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Wow, what a great record. Consider me hooked.

I've been looking through their discography and have some questions:

1. What other albums should I check out? I'm not sure I want the two early albums where the Monkees only contribute vocals and not much of anything else, but I hear they're supposed to be good. What do you guys think? I'm looking to find the rest of the 1967-1968 albums, but I'm a bit clueless after that. Is anything else worth getting after Peter Tork left?
2. Seeing how many rarities compilations that Rhino has pumped out for this band, are any worth owning? It's kind of dizzying to try and get a grasp on what most of this stuff is.
3. Any good solo albums? I see that Mike's solo career is supposed to have some pretty good albums along the way. 

I would bet that there's a lot of other fans on this board, and I would appreciate to hear from you guys.

Also, I think Nesmith's my favorite.

As far as the 60s albums go, you want them all, except Changes. Monkees Present is pretty spotty, too. YOU DO want those first two albums. Fantastic pop for the most part.

For rarities....Missing Links volumes 1-2. Vol 3 is not up to the standard of the other two. At the very least, just get volume 2. It's essential. One thing to note - often, the tracks that went unreleased were far better than what made the actual albums.

There are 2cd deluxes of the first four albums, and 3cd deluxes of the rest (minus Changes). These would probably be overkill for a newbie, but I have this feeling that you'll want them at some point...

You could just buy "Music Box" as a jumping off point instead. That does cover most of the bases.

And hey, they're touring the east coast in a couple of months! You should go check 'em out live if they play your town. I've seen them twice already since 2012 and they are superb. Hope to catch 'em once more on this tour.

This site is really helpful in determining reissues and all the different mixes of various songs that have come out over the years:
http://monkeesmixography.wikidot.com/

The Nez solo albums on RCA are pretty good.....but most of the versions of those he recorded during The Monkees years (and left unreleased) are much better, IMO.

My Monkees ranking list:

1 - P, A, C, J Ltd.
2 - Headquarters
3 - The Birds, The Bees & the Monkees
3 - Debut album
5 - More of The Monkees

Seems all too familiar.


Have any of these songs shown up on reissues or compilations?

One of the prime examples of that IMO.

Released:
http://grooveshark.com/s/The+Girl+I+Knew+Somewhere/3SSC3N?src=5

Mike's version:
http://grooveshark.com/s/The+Girl+I+Knew+Somewhere+Alternate+Version+number+Version/1ibLMQ?src=5

Headquarters is a good album that was generated by the guys themselves.

In this case, I'd actually say the released version of The Girl I Knew Somewhere with Micky's vocal is better than the unreleased one with Mike - but, they're both worth having.

Headquarters, by the way, might catch you a bit off-guard. It's truly the only "group" album and you can hear how rusty the guys are. Micky's drum parts are rudimental at times. That's part of the charm, I'd guess. But this is another example of the unreleased vs. released thing plays in. The Monkees have several cases in which earlier versions of their songs rival the released version. I happen to like the takes of, say, You Just May Be The One and I'll Spend My Life With You from the 1966 sessions better than the group Headquarters take.

However, then there's a thing like All Of Your Toys - which the group played on themselves and is from the Headquarters sessions - that wasn't released due to copyright concerns (Bill Martin, songwriter, wasn't signed with Screen Gems and that presented a problem).....and THAT song is one of their best tunes ever.

It gets mighty confusing, that's for sure. I've been into the Monkees for a solid 15+ years (I know, I was a weird kid!), so it's less chaotic to me because I grew up with memories of the different issues that were out. I bought the 1994 remasters, then the Listen To The Band box, and collected the episodes on VHS, and watched as different packages were released etc. It's been fun. Sometimes I'll go long periods without listening to them, and I'll come back and go through a binge period, and remember why this band was so important to me, how much a part of my whole life they have been, how much truly quality music they made - and not just at the hands of Nesmith. And there's a whole lot of dreck, too - but it's all part of the story.

Here's another thing. I think one of the reasons I love this band so much is that they have one of the most fascinating and twisted stories ever. The story provides so much more in conjunction with the music. You'll have a great understanding of why the songs are they way they are, why they sound like they do (given whichever album/time period you're listening from). I'd recommend checking out a book (there are several), or watching something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVYGkv46NB0

And.......yeah, there's more. Check out the tv series. It's still funny. It's very of-the-time, but I wasn't even close to being born in the 60s and it catches my attention.

Re:Nez solo stuff. I have this compilation, it covers the Nez early RCA years pretty well. There are probably better ones, but this is the one I bought at a Borders once and like everything else, grew up with it. I wouldn't "go here" until you've fully gone through The Monkees catalog, but do whatcha want! (and disregard the songs on the cover picture, those are by The Guess Who!)
http://www.amazon.com/Best--Original-Hits-Michael-Nesmith/dp/B000060MEM/ref=sr_1_37?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1395101964&sr=1-37&keywords=michael+nesmith

Hmm, I might just be too passionate about this band! :)

The Monkees story is well documented. My recommendation is

monkees first album
Headquarters
Pisces, Aquarius...
More of The Monkees

Finally Missing Links Volume 2. Heavy on Nesmith material, so many good songs. How a song called "St Matthew" never was released I'll never know. Have fun

Jet without wings

PACJ is the best album, but Headquarters is a close second. BB&M is one of my favorites, although it does show Davy, Mike and Micky's more self-indulgent sides (Peter is barely on the original album). I like Present a lot better than Instant Replay, it's the only Monkees album from the 60's that is mostly written by the guys. The 3 First National Band albums are essential, too. After that, Michael's albums are a bit spotty.

The "Head" soundtrack is well worth checking out IMO

 I think Nesmith was stockpiling songs in anticipation of his eventual break with the group. His '68 Nashville sessions were pivotal in the development of country rock, but most of those tunes did not see the light of day as Monkees' records, "Listen to the Band" being the grand exception. "Good Clean Fun" too I guess.

Justus is 100% self-contained but I would not go there as a first or second purchase. Better to run through the sixties era first.

Headquarters is a very good debut album for The Monkees as a real rock band generating their own music. Some of the instrumentation is definitely rudimentary, particularly Micky's drumming. Counterpart to that, Peter Tork was a versatile studio player and Nesmith a competent guitarist.

 By some accounts, a better musical lineup for the group would have been Davy (drums) Peter (lead guitar) Mike (bass) Micky (rhythm guitar or percussion).

Bubbly Waves: Congratulations on your purchase! That is and always will be one of my favorite albums, I love that music and the band.

You also struck a chord with me by posting this, a very personal chord if I may add a personal element to it.

I also got my first copy of Pisces Aquarius around this same time of year, almost two weeks to the day actually, 27 years ago. Hard to believe I can remember so much detail, but that one album had a huge impact on me and my musical tastes. I remember the details of the day (it was raining), of buying it, of listening to it, and of staring at the cover as the vinyl spun on the turntable.

It wasn't my first Monkees album, that would have been the Arista "That Was Then..." hits collection that many other MTV kids like me were getting in the wake of MTV and Nickelodeon showing the 60's reruns and getting the whole Monkees revival underway. The original Colgems albums were even at that time very expensive due to the demand from MTV and the revival stuff, so an album like Pisces at the vintage shops and from collectors was going for 20 bucks and up, remember this is in 1980's money to a kid! So it was fantastic that Rhino kept the local retailers supplied with their reissues, and that was where I got Pisces, soon to be followed by Headquarters, on the Rhino vinyl. I still have all of them. And Pisces is one of those albums where I have multiple versions, multiple issues, etc, everything from the original vinyls to the Japanese CD when the others were out of print in the late 80's. Obsessed!

***I'd recommend searching this board's "search" function for the words Monkees, Nesmith, Pisces, etc. anything related.***

Because there have been some really great, really informative, and pretty deep in detail discussions which have been posted here, by many of the same informed and passionate posters who have already posted replies to your comments here. It's well worth the time to read through some of those Monkees-related archived posts, and you'll find some kindred souls chatting about the band we all love.

And also, I'll repost a long critique/review/essay I wrote years ago on another music site on the "Pisces Aquarius" album. Maybe in reading that piece while listening you'll either violently disagree, get bored halfway through reading it, or find some new details in the music as you listen that will open up some new opinions and thoughts...hopefully the latter.  :lol  I'll dig that up today.

yes, you got their best album IMO, then I would go for headquarters, The Birds bees, Instant replay, monkees presents (just for Nez's incredible songs) and Head (Gotta warn you that Head is a bizarre album with only 6 songs, the rest of the album is strange sound bytes from the movie) and their first two albums and Missing links 1-3 (if you can find them) Justus is good too, "Pool it" is "okay" (no Nez though) I would stay away from changes (far by their worst album, just Mickey and Davy and only 1 original song on the whole album )  as far as Nesmith I personally like "The Prison" and "The garden" they aren't anything like the monkees though, they have a real laidback feel, almost Smooth Jazz and a lot of synths (very experimental), not a lot of vocals but they both have incredible songs in fact some of the songs are beautiful, I call these two his masterpieces, I would look for the cds "The older stuff" and "The newer stuff" which are basically Nez's "Best of" albums.. "Rays" is kind of a strange Techno album, not bad though, imagine Paul McCartney's "Fireman" stuff but with Nez and you get a basic idea as to how this one sounds, and Nez's first couple albums.. you can buy and download most of his cds right from his site videoranch.com

No way, though, were they going to hide the cute Monkee behind the drums. That would be like having Paul McCartney being the drummer for the Beatles.

Great way to get into this band…good purchase.

Michael Nesmith is a monster talent.

As far as Monkees albums go, here is my must haves:

Get the deluxe editions from Rhino—
Head (Deluxe Edition) (Handmade) <— great soundtrack album
Instant Replay (Deluxe Edition) <— Nesmith shines, and this set includes the music from the "33 & 1/3 Revolutions Per Monkee" TV special.
http://monkeesstore.warnermusic.com/music.html

The best one though, "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees" deluxe set is sold out, but it is available for a price:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Birds-Bees-Monkees-Boxed/dp/B00396HGXG

Or having Dennis Wilson as the drummer for the Beach Boys.

This brings up a good question:

The deluxe Head or the deluxe Instant Replay? I'm interested in checking them out, but because they're a bit expensive, I only want to pick up one for now.
I would love to get that The Birds, the Bees & the Monkees box set, but it's a bit out of the price range.

I started off more interested in the Head set because I love weird, psychedelic stuff. But, I've been reading more and more about how great the Instant Replay box is.
What do you guys think?

HEAD.

You mean Mike isn't the cute one?

  If The Monkees had combined the best new cuts off Instant Replay and Present they would have had one excellent studio LP for 1969 instead of two that were so-so. I think the first four studio albums were the best.

  Correct, they didn't want to put Davy behind the drums but I have heard his stickwork was better than Micky's.

The first four albums were the best in my opinion. The later ones had good songs also, but they were not as consistent. I'm one of the few that enjoys Changes more than The Monkees Present :lol, but they are both important.  You might as well get them all, but save Pool It until last.  :)

Since first making this thread, I've done some more listening and stuff.

I've listened to the first album a few times, which is an average record. There's some good songs, but a lot of it seems to be standard or filler tracks. One track that stands out particularly to me is "Papa Gene's Blues." I'm a big fan of country-rock and the sort from around this time period. I've listened to the song fifteen times already and I continue to keep coming back to it. That (slide?) guitar intro is a wonderful thing and really throws a curve ball in the flow of the album. I love the melody, the lyrics, the harmony (especially the note they hit on "need"), and I love the rhythm. Really cool instrumentation, nice arrangement, and I am in love with the "Play, magic fingers!" moment.  The other highlights that come to mind would be "Sweet Young Thing," which is another fabulous, inventive song, and "Last Train to Clarksville," which is a well-known classic. I would also say that "Take a Giant Step" is a pretty good song, too, but it may just be growing on me because it follows "Papa Gene's Blues."
I've also been listening to some of the bonus tracks on the deluxe version, as well. Gosh, "Propinquity (I've Just Begun to Care)" is an astounding song. What an incredible talent Mike is.

I also watched Head along with fellow board member, Judd. Really great movie, I was surprised. I was just expecting it to be an entertainingly strange film, but it was actually quite a well-made film. That's not to say it isn't strange or entertaining, which it is in spades. I loved the movie and hope to watch it again sometime soon.
My attention was also immediately grabbed by the live "Circle Sky," which is really kind of astonishing when you consider the band that's playing the song. 

I've become acquainted with a few other things along the way, like "Naked Persimmon" and the "St. Matthew" demo. "Naked Persimmon," to me, seems like the struggle between Mike's two styles. On one side, you have his more rock-oriented guy ("Salesman," "Circle Sky") and on the other side, you have his more country-oriented personality ("Papa Gene's Blues," "What Am I Doing Hangin' 'Round?"). The "St. Matthew" demo is also an incredible song - this guy just seemed to ooze greatness. It's too bad he's pigeon-holed into an unfortunate image (which I was probably guilty of doing at some point, to be honest).

I've really become a big Mike fan over the past few days. Anybody know where I can buy a Nudie suit?

Head is the best. Practically a cinematic suicide... pretty shocking in places, yet still somehow great fun. The "Daddy's Song" sequence knocks me out every time.

Head is classic. I rank it right up there with A Hard Days Night in rock cinema, although Head is a much darker piece than Hard Days Night. Maybe I should compare it with Don't Look Back.

I am an Old Monkees fan.  :lol

But I came to appreciate the band the long way around. The first-run Monkees TV show was my first exposure to the band and I was elementary school age and I bought the singles and Lps but it wasn't very long before the harder rock bands began to fascinate me...The Monkees & The Archies that was kid-stuff. I totally dismissed any sort of music like that as I grew into my teen years -- the musical horizons were opening up with so many great bands in the early 70's there was no reason to look back. When the 60's became "oldies" you started to hear things on the radio you haven't heard in years and I started to recognize that the Monkees chart-toppers were really quite well-crafted songs... I have to admit I was put-off by the knowledge that Boyce & Hart had been the crafters of many of these songs. But eventually I did start to collect the CDs and discovered the world I had overlooked as a kid in their amazing and plenteous plethora of album-cuts and obscure tracks, many penned by Nesmith. I also found a new appreciation for Dolenz vocal talents.
I would highly recommend their music today.

Yeah, that's one of their best. It's the song my sister, who got me into re-discovering the Monkees many years ago, really liked, and so did I. It's just such a happy song, too! "Take a Giant Step" is almost as good.

One song I thought was too, well, gooey, when I was a kid but which I now like is, "I Wanna Be Free."

"Papa Gene's Blues" sounds to me like a Nez tip of the hat to Rick Nelson's "Hello Mary Lou" - also featuring "Magic Fingers" James Burton on guitar.

Gotta say, I like the Monkees by singles & that's the only time in my listening experience because usually I'm into obscure non-hit album tracks. My favorite song is "Words", it's very interestingly structured, love the contrast of verses & chorus, the bass & of course Mickey's performance. From then on, I regarded him as the best singer of the group. But let's not forget "the true Monkee" Davy Jones who was fortunate to get lead on one of the most beautiful songs that exist, "Daydream Believer". It does indeed cheer me up, as the lyrics suggest, Davy absolutely nailed the happy-go-lucky feel of the song, he was the right choice for it. That said, I find Peter Tork the most likable of the 4. Everyone praises Mike Nesmith for his composing skills, Davy is the "cutest" (not for me), Mickey gets attention for his vocals, but no one seems to say anything about Peter. Strange, considering he could play instruments (piano & bass?) well before joining the band, while the rest caught up later. He also doesn't seem arrogant like Mike, in interviews he comes off very humble.

Re "Papa Gene's Blues", I 1st discovered it via the Iron Leg Blog, in 2007 archive section. Dug it instantly, played a few times in a row &... quickly got tired of it (likely I found better examples of country music).

Here's a story that will tie this thread back to Brian Wilson and the BBs......

Reading all this talk about "Papa Gene's Blues" reminded me of a something that happened backstage at one of Brian's Pet Sounds shows in 2000. I was fortunate enough to get backstage passes and attend sound check to one of Brian's Pet Sounds shows. At one point before the show, Jeff Foskett came up to me and my friend and asked what our story was. We began talking about all sorts of things, but at one point Jeff made the comment that my friend had a sort of Mickey Dolenz look about him. Jeff then told the story of how he ran into Mickey recently at Tower Records, and even though they had met/worked together before, Mickey acted like he didn't know Jeff. Funny.

Then I mentioned that I had seen Michael Nesmith perform a few years earlier and that the only Monkees tune he did that night was "Papa Gene's Blues". Then without hesitation Jeff launches into singing the song........ and it's a very wordy song....... and he didn't miss a note. It was quite surreal and very impressive! So obviously he had covered the song at some point in his career.

I have seen all 4 Monkees in their solo shows - never seen all 4 together - and Peter was the most entertaining. By far the funniest - and it seemed to be completely spontaneous. Also the best musician of the group by far. The show I saw, he had his band Shoe Suede Blues with him, and he played a lot of guitar, really, good, rockabilly and blues guitar. Had a good rapport with the band, too, I really felt that, in Peter's eyes, he's just one of the guys in the band, no better or greater than the other guys, he just happens to be the one that got lucky back in the 60's and became a star. Papa Nez wrote a lot of great songs, but I agree, he does come off a bit pompous and arrogant at times. Great talent, but not I guy I ever expect to have a chat with.

Thanks for your recollections, LS, it's very interesting to read the view from the 1st-hand experience. You further confirmed my observations regarding Peter & Mike & I have now even more respect for the former. Speaking of entertaining, here's sth. I found recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naCozHQB568 - hilarious dancing, look at Mickey. Very cool to see them have a go at "At the Hop", one of my favorite rock & roll songs ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLpoawymWw - same TV special, the cover of "Little Darlin'" (I heard only tongue-in-cheek version by Joan Baez on her Forest Hills live album). The face expressions/gestures are golden. Dig the costumes & oily hairdos.

I've done some more listening recently - Headquarters and the Birds, the Bees & the Monkees, to be exact.

The first one I listened to was Headquarters. It was a fine album, but not that really sicks out to me. All of the songs maintained a consistent, relatively high quality level throughout (except "Shades of Gray," perhaps). The highs on their other albums far exceed the highs on this album (although, so do the lows), and it makes for a very safe, consistent album where no particular song really stands out and draws me back. My favorites would be:
"You Told Me" - I always love a good Nesmith tune. A nice opener, the guitar and banjo packs a punch that really launches stuff off nicely. The way the songs builds repeatedly and lands in harmonies is a particularly cool part.
"Sunny Girlfriend" - Another good Mike song. The song has a cool intro with the trading off guitar and backward cymbals. The riff that continues throughout the song is very catchy and tremendously fun to listen to and I love the way the drum beat trots along through the song. I also really like Mike's delivery of his lyrics, Micky's harmony, and the more complex vocal arrangements that go up and down during certain harmony parts.
"I Can't Get Her Off My Mind" - This might be more of a guilty pleasure, but I really enjoy this song. It's really pleasant and catchy and I enjoy Davy's singing on this. I also quite like the arrangement. A well-crafted pop song.
"Randy Scouse Git" - Another pleasant, catchy song. The verses have some interesting instrumentation and are quite calm and then launches into this hectic choruses (those transitions are quite smooth, by the way). Micky does a great job singing both sections of this song and I love the layering of the chorus and the verse singing at the end. The freak out at the end is also pretty cool - I love the way that organ just explodes into the song.


I really enjoyed the Birds, the Bees & the Monkees. I see a lot of people complaining about how it seems to be a grab-bag of sorts, but I think it actually holds together quite nicely. I really like the aesthetic that they went for with this record and it's become one of my favorites. Some really great quality contributions from everyone in the band (save a few Davy tracks), although Peter Tork is sorely missing (less Davy, more Peter, I say). I find the weakest tracks to easily be "We Were Made for Each Other" and "the Poster," although I'm sure some will disagree. I find all of Mike's songs to be top-notch. "Auntie's Municipal Court" has a great, Byrds-like groove to it, some interesting lyrics, and great singing and harmonies. "Tapioca Tundra" has a pretty unique intro and seems pretty innovative composition-wise. The music bed is nice and the effects used are really cool. Also, great melody and singing from Papa Nez. "Writing Wrongs" is an another interesting composition from Mike. The song starts with sort of a spooky section and moves into a really cool, Pink Floyd-like freak out. Finally, "Magnolia Simms" is a pretty cool throwback song, nice singing and songwriting as usual. The acoustic and stereo remix versions on the box set make for some nice listening. The outtakes I've heard so far are pretty great, too: "Carlisle Wheeling" is a beautiful song with some really nice banjo, "Little Red Rider" is a nice slice of country music, and "Nine Times Blue" (with Mike's vocal) is a very lovely, tender song.

"Dream World" is an acceptable piece of baroque pop music; "P.O. Box 9847" is a really great, indelible psychedelic song; "I'll Be Back Up on My Feet" is a fun country, show tune-kinda thing; "Zor and Zam" is a fine song from Micky with an interesting message; the hits "Valleri" and "Daydream Believer" are also pretty good, of course.


Yeah, I'm not quite a fan of that song.
I prefer the fast version - the organ kinda reminds me of "Like a Rolling Stone" or "Positively 4th Street."

Have you seen the complete special? Fats Domino, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis are in the concert scene, but the best part is the show closing "Listen to the Band" jam.

HEAD is an insane album - absolutely love it (and the film!)

Star Collector is a terrific, unsung gem - one of many the Monkees produced.

Pool It came up in one of the BBs threads and I thought I'd use this one rather than derailing the former. It's one of the only Monkees albums I've never listened to. Is it as bad as people say or is a lot of it to do with disappointment that they reverted to session musicians and outside writers. Or both?

Yeah, it's pretty bad. The songs are weak.

They blew their opportunity to have a comeback with new material. It might have had some success, even with that dated 80's production - because that production style was "in" in 1987, but they needed much better songs, and it sure would have helped if they had sung on each other's songs. The Monkees, as singers, actually had a very nice vocal blend - think of "Pleasant Valley Sunday", "Words", "Cuddly Toy", "Forget That Girl". "Pool it" sounds like the work of 3 guys who said "well, we're really popular again, so we have to make an album...but we really don't want to".

You're eventually going to want them all. Buy them in chronological order starting with the first album and going from there. When you become a hardcore fan you'll want those expensive Rhino Handmade Box sets which are worth every penny spent on them . They are in limited quantities, though. Buy them soon if they are not already sold out. The TV show DVDs are worthwhle as well. Enjoy!

Micky Dolenz has a new LIVE DVD out now which is available from his  'store' on Ebay'.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKY-DOLENZ-DIRECT-NEW-2014-DVD-LIVE-IN-CONCERT-FROM-ARCADA-THEATRE-NOT-SIGNED-/111440355973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f25ce285#ht_3748wt_1603

I'm not much of a fan.  By and large I didn't 'dig' Davy's 'sound' at ALL.  Mickey was OK but not great.  Peter and Mike I could take in small doses...which is all we were given anyway.

Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton are 2 guys I know of who auditioned to be Monkees and got turned down.  Too talented?  Too hard to make them march to the 'beat'?   The Monkees might have had more cred if they had more great songs to choose from.  They did record SOME tunes by some valid people. 

TV made the Monkees.  Basically a 30 minute music video every week...and then came syndication....so every day.  Their lp tracks are often more intersting.  They got 'play' on the TV show but by and large weren't PLAYED TO DEATH on the radio like the hits were. 

It was THIS kind of pop-poop which gave rise to free-form FM radio.  [Tommy Roe, Bobby Sherman, The 1910 Fruitgum Company, SOME Paul Revere and the Raiders...hells bells...some Turtles for THAT matter]  People older than 12-13 needed something to listen too that wouldn't ROT their teeth.  The Monkees stuff is fun.  Nothing wrong with that.  It just gets 'old' pretty quickly 'cause basically what ya see is what ya get.  I have their greatest hits.  My wife bought it.  It includes some album cuts thankfully.  Good enough.

I met up with Mickey twice...Davy once in person and once on the phone.  I wasn't impressed.

Mickey Dolenz was a better singer than either of those two, and Michael Nesmith was a better songwriter. Too talented? Sure, that's why people are turned down for roles all the time.  ::)


If you knew anything about the Monkees, you would know that they couldn't make them "march to the beat" either. They continually demanded more and more control and input into their music, and they were finally given it after they ousted Don Kirshner. Michael Nesmith literally punched a hole in the wall next to Don's face during one of their confrontations.


Here are some great songs: "Take a Giant Step", "Last Train to Clarksville", "Papa Gene's Blues", "Sweet Young Thing", "Mary, Mary", "I'm Not Your Steppin' Stone", "I'm a Believer", "You Told Me", "You Just May Be the One", "Randy Scouse Git", "Salesman", "the Door Into Summer", "Love Is Only Sleeping", "Cuddly Toy", "Words", "What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?", "Pleasant Valley Sunday", "Don't Call on Me", "Goin' Down", "Auntie's Municipal Court", "Tapioca Tundra", "Daydream Believer", "P.O. Box 9847", "Valleri", "Porpoise Song", "Circle Sky", "As We Go Along", "Daddy's Song", "Do I Have to Do This All Over Again", "Carlisle Wheeling", and "The Girl I Left Behind Me". I'm being picky - and I'm not even completely familiar with all of their catalogue.


The Monkees released "the Last Train to Clarksville" before the TV show aired and it was a hit.


The TV show was just like any other TV show - had a plot, jokes, characters - except they played a few songs during the episode. So what? The TV show was about a band and the stuff they were up to. Bands perform songs, right?


You're blaming the Monkees for something they don't have control over. How can you blame a band for someone they inspired? It's not like the Monkees were standing behind them cheering them on. That's like blaming the Beach Boys for all the lacklustre surf stuff that was released in their wake. Don't blame the Monkees, blame the radio stations that decided to play those bands.


How can you proclaim to know anything about the Monkees and their music if all you've heard is some scattered album tracks and the big hits that were played on the radio? "What ya see is what ya get"? What does that even mean? They wrote songs, not novels. Are you expecing to peel back layer after layer of deep meaning in a pop song? I find your remarks about age and how the Monkees' stuff is "fun" to be condescending and patronizing.


Oh, how classy. Regardless, that shouldn't even matter. It's the music - not the people.

I don't have time to argue with you.  Your dismissal of Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton in favour of Mickey Dolenz says it all.  The Monkees were...primarily...for the amusement of little girls and their parents. :lol

Oh, lucky me.

It must make things so much easier to know you have the only and correct opinion. You met Micky and weren't impressed huh? I doubt he was either to be fair.

Behold this shitty video of a supremely talentless 69 year old singing crap songs aimed at 8 year old girls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK-9ZRDCPxY

OK...I get that they were 'fun'...and that they sold a whole buncha records and that certain songwriters were exposed to a wide audience through them.  They had their part to play...and they played it well.  The perception looking back will be different than it was at the time.  The actual musicians in the group left...especially "Wool Hat'...and then Peter.  It was what it was.  THAT won't change.  As for Mickey and Davy?  I'll supply NO detail.   :hat

Good, nobody asked you to. Besides, essentially saying a dead guy was a jerk and offering no explanation tells us all we need to know about the whole thing.

I did NOT say that Davy Jones was a jerk.  

Monkee bashing continues among people of a certain age because the group didn't come together organically the way bands were supposed to, they didn't play on the records at the start, and they were the faves of the teen magazines. This argument is old, I'm tired of laying out the defense for the Monkees, if you don't like their music, don't listen to it. If you hate the tv show, don't watch it.

No, you just implied it, dumped ass all over his career, refused to give evidence and f***ed off. Like a sterling, classy person who should be seen as a great barometer for baseless and unsolicited judgement calls on much beloved dead performers.

I'm pacing the floor.

 :lol

Stick with what you're good at, as they say.

People love to be negative. The whole Internet is that way.

Which leads to people defending their positions time and time again. Feels like I've been defending the Monkees - and the Beach Boys, Paul Revere and the Raiders, etc - all my life. You can't win an argument like this. People already have their minds made up, mostly based on misinformation, there's no chance of persuading them that they might be wrong.

What pisses me off is that these imbeciles feel the need to blarp out their crap at every available opportunity. Hmmm, a Monkees thread...who's going to  be posting in that. Do you suppose, perhaps....Monkees fans? So what, one guy who hates them thinks he's going to change everyone's opinions or something?

It happens all the time. I had a friend when i was a kid who talked like everyone else's opinions were worthless; his opinions, though, were 'fact', 'gospel'. Eventually I got tired of it and told him to get lost.

Bunch of girls. :lol

What's yer problem with females?