The Smiley Smile Message Board

So I finally decided that I'm never going to be able to make my peace with the Smile Sessions CD 1 Smile reconstruction, as such I've been listening to the Sea of Tunes Vol 16 Smile CD and I've got to say, while the sound quality is obviously poorer, I much prefer listening to it.

It's all the tampering with the new Smile I can't abide - some parts, such as Barnyard and the fade to Holidays, just sound awful - and I just find so much of the tinkering annoying. I far prefer to listen to the tracks unfinished, incomplete and authentic.

Anyone else agree? If not, what are your thoughts (i.e. perhaps the Sea of Tunes CD now seems redundant with the release of the Smile Sessions)?

Haven't listened to the SoT version, but I just know I'd like it more. After the initial "wow I can't believe its finally out" hype died out the bits that are fiddled with (most of all the ones you mentioned) have started to really bug me.

I would love an official Sea of Tunes Unsurpassed Masters Box Set! ;D

I agree.

I don't want to appear hypocritical, because I love making SMiLE fan mixes. And, I know I take liberties that Brian never would have as far as sequencing and connecting songs/parts. But...

I hate BWPS. Actually I despise it. With the three movements and the linking of tracks and no fades and ending with "Good Vibrations" and everything, well, I never listen to it. So, naturally with the Smile Sessions CD 1 mirroring BWPS, I really don't care for it. Actually, I listen to my own SMiLE mix INSTEAD of it.

Some of the fly-ins I don't mind; some are quite good. It (CD 1) just has a "busy" feel about it. Maybe it's because I/we know what was done to the tracks, but it just sounds too manipulated or overly-tinkered with, like they put the kitchen sink in every song. And, again, I don't like the way some of the songs are attached. Brian was the master of the fade.

The rest of the boxed set is great, though...

Yes the rest of the boxed set is superb, but 'busy' is the right word for CD 1. To me, it's a mess. In hindsight, they really should have just got the surviving BB's to record new vocals for the missing sections, which to me would've been far more authentic than just stitching it all together and (poorly) plastering sped-up/slowed-down vocals over the top. I think BWPS is a masterpiece, but I don't think trying to replicate it on the Smile Sessions was a good idea, at least not in the way they did it anyway...

Yeah, I agree completely Disney Boy.  The flown in parts are terrible and really ruin the presentation.  Honestly I'd prefer to listen to just about any of the bootlegs to the Smile Sessions.

Just a gentle reminder, but there were only ever going to be two ways The Smile Sessions was going to be released:

1 - with CD 1 using BWPS as a template for a "completed" Smile or...

2 - never.

I know which one I'd vote for if asked.

I personally don't like CD1, but that wasn't why I bought the box. I always listen to my own edit that now sounds great thanks to discs 2 to 4.

I have no complaints about using the BWPS tracklist as a template, but adding robotic Beach Boy voices and phantom demo piano doesn't make it sound complete.  At best, it's unnecessary and distracting.

I always found GV a much better ending for SMiLE than the song favored by many posters here. Either that, or Vega-Tables! :)

So we should blame Brian, VDP and Darian who came up with that three-part, overlong live version back ten years ago? They should have stuck to two sides and approx. 36 minutes... Some guys just never get it right!

Personally I love the disc 1 smile. It's an official band-sanctioned smile that I can listen to on vinyl. I've listened so much now that it's starting to get the odd pop and crackle that make it sound 'authentic'. Plus I'm so used to the few flaws that they're part of the album now. So I share Andrew's perspective. It was either this version or none at all and overall I think the sequence and editing is done pretty well.

Edit: All that said I definitely needed closure on my smile obsession. I endlessly tinkered with smile mixes to get one that I was satisfied with and could never enjoy these sequences without thinking of what changes needed to be made. So an official release put an end to all that in my mind. I probably would have overlooked even more dramatic editing than occurred on the final version, because I was relieved simply to have a finished Smile which I could put on the turntable and enjoy at face value.

As for the sequence: The BWPS blueprint was really the only way they could go though, wasn't it? The other option would be arbitrarily coming up with their own sequence which would surely be an insane solution? What's cool I think is that it's largely BWPS, but there's the occasional knowing wink to vintage 66/67 mixes here and there i.e. Old Master Painter/Sunshine vocals fade and Vegatables Fade.

Overall, I think SMiLE as presented on The SMiLE Sessions is pretty great. You get all the key songs presented in versions that are pretty good. However, I still can't understand why they couldn't get rid of the piano for "Barnyard". Amateurs did a much better job of keeping the vocal yet losing the piano. Honestly, most of the attempts I've heard almost make it sound like the vocal was actually recording for the track. Which is pretty awesome. Shame that Alan and Mark couldn't get that right. I did think that "I'm In Great Shape" was done pretty nicely though. I also think that the "child, child" vocals on "Look" are kinda needless. Shoulda just kept it an instrumental.

My other beef is with with the sequencing and the songs used. First off, I think that the album was just too long. I really feel that Brian coulda gotten rid of "Look", "Holidays", "I Wanna Be Around / Workshop" and maybe even "Love To Say Dada".

Vega-Tables ends my Smile, and after I made that decision, I can never listen to it any other way. It feels so right.

Which version do you use?


Personally, I think they should even have finished the vocals for DYLW, Holidays, CIFOTM, and Look for disc 1 or at least the vinyl. It's getting really annoying to have to sing them myself every time. :)

On Smile Sessions, yes the likes of Look and Holidays do seem a bit... nice but pointless. However, the completed versions on BWPS, with vocals, are terrific and fit perfectly with the surrounding songs. I still stick by my belief that BWPS was a masterpiece and for the Smile Sessions version they should have got the surviving BB's to record the missing vocals.

It could have been cool if just the original members had added their voices but I fear they'd be supplemented by Jeff etc. and it would just undermine the whole thing. Or auto tune. Can you imagine?!

Hmmm yes, when you put it like that...

BWPS was its own thing though, why mirror it so for the '66/'67 version?  Personally I feel they ought to have just used the tracks listed on the original back cover (despite that list not being written in stone, it's still the best we had) and placed the additional tracks as bonus/extras.   I wouldn't have felt like it undermined the BW version at all.   The fly ins for Child, Holidays and Great Shape should not have been done if they were not able to pull them off better than they did.  As has been stated, amateurs have shown it can be done better - so why didn't they?  I too would have much preferred the surviving original members to add their vocals to these tracks, and in fact I think that would have been kind of cool.   
That being said, however, I still would rather have what we have as opposed to having no official release at all.   

I never listened to the boots as I became a fan in early 2011 and was able to wait until the official release with the 1993 box set's smile songs.

This.

I think that would have been a smart idea. However, there are a still a few issues, namely...

• What do you do for the title "I'm In Great Shape"? Do you just use the small snippet? Do you connect "Barnyard" to it? Or possibly "I Wanna Be Around"?
• And what about "The Elements"? Do you just use "Fire" or do you add in "Love To Say Dada"? Puts you in a tough spot there.

That is a good point.  I think I would begin by asking Brian.  If he said "make it like BWPS" I would say "No, Brian, we're not doing that!"   :lol  (Kidding of course), but assuming he was down with making this different from BWPS and his response was "I don't know"  or "I don't care"  then maybe I would ask VDP.  If that bore no fruit, then I might just use MOLC for the elements (as that is the only real definite we have on what was to be included in that suite) and include a word of explanation to that effect in the liner notes.   All other "possibles" when it comes to The Elements, I would place among the bonus material.   With IIGS I would use the material that was in some way originally listed under that title, and place the other potential pieces in with the bonus stuff.    
Ideally of course, in such a scenario, Brian himself would be taking a more active role in the construction of it and would be making such determinations.  Or, they could have held a contest, where they presented the project to all the obsessives who'd been making fan constructions for all these years and chosen one of those for the basis of what they put together.  
Or, give it to ML and see what he comes up with.  :)

[edit] MOLC on its own could work as a representation for all the elements.  You have the fire, the air that fans the flames, the earth which is scorched by the fire and the water that puts it out. 

I agree completely - I'd much rather listen to the sea of tunes one cd reconstruction of Smile than the smile sessions version.  First of all I like it's mostly stereo, I like some of the unusual choices/ edits (like child), the wY unfinished stuff like worms was left unfinished! and the flow of it.

The Smile Sessions is a difficult listen because so many tracks lack vocals. I think they should have omitted songs like Look from the official reconstruction.

No way was Brian ever going to put himself through the private hell of trying once again to construct the perfect Smile. I think as far as he's concerned Brian Wilson Presents Smile IS the final product. If that's not the model for a reconstruction then you're back at square 1. Unfortunately the original Smile recordings totally blow away what was recorded for BWPS so that creates a bit of a pickle for a lot of us fans. I don't listen to the official Smile Sessions reconstruction because I prefer stereo, which I think is something that we will get from Capitol eventually with modern capabilities being what they are and still evolving. The Smile Sessions did give us a lot of really good quality stereo stuff to use in creating our own stereo Smile in the mean time. The bootlegs were fine for their time, but I remember what lousy sound I used to have to settle for back in the day and I'm glad those days are over. Of course some people actually dig that low-fi vibe but I am not one of them.

Nononono! No way! That list is absolutely meaningless, and it was used for designing the back cover - there was no "original" back cover, the back cover has never been printed. Never mind that a 1967 SMiLE would have been quite different from BWPS, it would undoubtedly lack some important musical parts that actually have been saved by the non-finishing.

The very best thing they could ever have done is stick with the BWPS track order and record the missing vocals, even the non-1960s lyrics, using the voices of Al, Mike, and Bruce - no Jeff, no autotune. I think everybody agrees that the old recordings beat the BWPS sessions.

All I wanted from the reunion was Holidays with Al on lead, Mike on the pirate rap... :'(

Me too. All I managed to acquire so far is the Official Torrent.

Careful, guys...

"Official torrent"? Of a bootleg? You have to be kidding…

The tweaks and vocal alterations do bug me a bit, so I do tend to stick with the fanedits.

Also, I'm perfectly fine with using BWPS as a template - it is superbly sequenced - but it certainly makes it altogether less authentic, so wouldn't it have made more sense to present a mix based on that tracklist in stereo, since a mono release in the 60s would have had a completely different tracklist anyway?

k i'm done bitching

Can I have Mike on lead?

That's an interesting topic right there... Which Beach Boys would've sang which missing vocal parts?

To me, the line in IIGS "mornings tumble out of bed" has Alan Jardine written all over it.

They did.  Well, for the most part...  But as with BWPS, they listed some song SECTIONS as separate actual songs.  I just don't know why Brian chose to move "I'm In Great Shape".  More than likely it was Brian's twisted sense of humor; his version of messing with the fans, ala "Paul is dead." :)

Ok it is now 5 years since Smile Sessions was released so how do you feel now when comparing Disc 1 to the S.O.T. SMiLE?   
I have the European 1 CD Smile Sessions and as detailed in another thread there is a dodgy repackaging of S.O.T. for sale on Amazon under a different title. 
Would it be worth my money or is it best to just stick with the official product?    I have to admit I love the Capitol version I have and I already have S.O.T as a  music file.   Would the CD be all that much better with it being a boot?   I am assuming it doesn't touch the official CD in sound quality.

The 2004 release, to me, IS Smile. It is the only lineup that ever made sense to me. Not addressing it when it was the elephant in the room would have been strange.  Purple Chick and others have used the 1966 tracks to recreate the 2004 lineup to, IMHO, great effect.

If you have the SOT Smile as a music file, burn it to a CD and find the SOT 16 artwork on line and make your own CD.  Buying a gray area boot of a boot when you already have the music makes no sense to me.

I still prefer listening to the SOT version more than the the 1st cd, of Smile Sessions.  It does sound too busy, it's over compressed with loss of dynamics, sections are used as "songs" with clumsy transitions that you know would be nothing like a Brian finished Smile, tracks are included that would never made it to a 1966/67 Smile.  SOT Smile has some air and openness and "breathes" in a way SS doesn't.

I think IIGS is a bunch or rejected H&V sections isn't it..?  part skit..? so IIGS, Do A Lot, BY or whatever

Sorry if this is a basic question but what, exactly wasn't finished about Smile? I mean, theres plenty of songs....was it just sequencing/putting them together/transitions between songs? Or was there talk of writing/recording more songs? Or were some of the songs just not quite finish, production wise?  like more overdubs,etc? Just wondered cuz, it sounds pretty goood sounding to me and to most people? Just wondering what exactly he was intending to keep working on? Or does no one know?

At the bare minimum,  it was sequencing. Not just tracks on the album, but sections within the songs.  That's an overly simplistic answer, I know,but it is iimportant to realize that there are no real easy answers when it comes to Smile.

I loved finally getting an excellent sounding version of Mrs. O'Leary's Cow on cd. But I was disappointed to hear that they "flew in" the backing vocals from Fall Breaks and Back To Winter. But my biggest issue is that they totally omitted my favorite part of Child Is The Father Of The Man.

Fall Breaks and Back To Winter over Mrs. O'Leary's Cow was a huge revelation for me. It was a piece of the puzzle that was right in front of us and it fit perfectly. Also made sense as many of the SMiLE songs were salvaged for other albums. I thought it was brilliant.

Same here, only it was 2003 when the sledgehammer hit home. In fact Purple Chick is still just a funny name to me.

I regard the magnificent BWPS as something so distinctive and complete that you can't compare it to the disparate assemblage of tracks on TSS, whose first CD suffers from being straitjacketed into the same order as BWPS. Ideally they should be heard on shuffle. (This may have been discussed on other occasions.)

Where are all of these fan mixes that cut out the piano from Barnyard?  I feel like I've heard several post-Smile Sessions fan mixes, without noticing any significant change in Barnyard.

Good point!  I took your advice and burned  CD's of Sea of Tunes and disc one of Vigotone SMiLE.   Home copies of bootlegs :)   I guess that is common enough in practice.   
I have always liked Smile Sessions disc 1 but S.O.T certainly does have a different feel and I like the feel of it.    Vigotone ain't bad either other than I would prefer it to start with Prayer instead of Part 2 Heroes and Villains.