The Smiley Smile Message Board

Don't know if this has been proposed, but two ideas which could lead to two great tracks if another Beach Boys album is recorded.

Get Carl and Dennis (sort of ) on it by:

Taking Carl's Heaven solo track and adding BB vocals to it, and maybe BB-style production.
Taking Dennis's masterpiece instrumental Mexico and either adding good newly written lyrics sung by a BB, or just great wordless harmonies.

Any thoughts? Could there be legal complications?

I was recently listening to "My Love Lives On" and I could hear where BB voices could have been laid on. It would certainly be the easiest and probably the most meaningful song to "top off" with some new vocals.

As long as Blondie is in the picture, why not rerecord another version of Carry Me Home, using Dennis' original vocal?

Y'know, I hope that if another album is forthcoming (and I don't think it will be…), I hope they still have the chops to pull some new material together instead of resuscitating ancient stuff. The place for celebrating Dennis and Carl's contributions to the band's heritage is surely on an archive collection like the MiC or GV box sets.

Let's have a vibrant, creative sixth decade for our favourite band. Surely a team such as  Brian, Mike, Al, David, Bruce, Blondie and hopefully Ricky, Beach Boys-all, could come up with an album's worth of material?

Brian's already covered Heaven btw… it was okay.

I'm siding with John Manning on this one...removing the doubts that anything new will ever happen, and pure hypothetical speculation...I'm also kind of tired of the rehashing, revisiting, re-recording, and all of that which even had the band mining a box of DAT tapes from the 90's for new material instead of just sitting the hell down and writing new material.

If anything should happen, and I seriously doubt it will, I hope it's something new. And if it sucks, it sucks, and goes into the same bin and dark corner of our album collection as all the "new" Stones, Who, McCartney, and Dick Dale albums since the 90's...but at least it won't feel like a warmed-up leftover entree given new garnish and a fresh buttered roll on the side.

Start with fresh ingredients, work with what you have available in the present rather than mining the past.

Ta GF02!  On the basis of our mutually agreed plan I've revised my signature slightly…!

It was tremendous....IMO

Joel Goldenburg, those are really good ideas. Like the others mentioned, I'm not sure I'd want those versions on a new Beach Boys' album, but I think you picked two good songs. I think "Heaven" is Carl's best solo song; I've always loved it. Now, we do have the 1981 solo version, the live version from The Tom Snyder Show, the live version from the 25th Anniversary TV Special, and the aforementioned BW solo version. But, a version with Beach Boys' harmonies intrigues me. I don't know what I'd do with it, though. Bonus track for something? Another comp?

I also like "Mexico" very much. It's a little long and repetitive, but that can be taken care of. Yeah, I can hear BB harmonies on that, too. Good thoughts, Joel!

I have a good idea for a title: "Summer's Back". ;D

(ducks)

That song is so awesomely beautiful, it needs more exposure.

This!  :rock

I wouldn't mind if there are no Carl or Dennis on their hypothetical new album, as they're dead.

What I do care about is if Blondie and Ricky would be involved. Now THAT would be awesome!

I know the thing these days is to say, "leave Carl and Dennis off since they can't contribute anything new" but I do think there is one song with his vocals that the guys should finish, that song being "Baywatch Nights" or "Dancin' the Night Away". Carl just has that one part, but it's really nice, and it's also a rockin' track by Brian. Get Mike to pen some new lyrics for the rest, and then we're good. I really think it's one of the best unreleased pieces left, and it would be a shame not to put it to use.

Definitely a vote for new material that adds to the legacy and is forward looking (especially the lyrics, with a ban on the following words, or derivatives - vibration, sensation, celebration, do it again, fun)

Well, if a new Brian Wilson album comes out that includes Al, David, Blondie, Matt Jardine, plus Foskett and the full backing band - not as mere guests, but fully integrated and woven throughout - and stands creatively to TWGMTR as Pet Sounds stood to Summer Days - might that qualify as a new Beach Boys album. Are Mike and Bruce really indispensable or has the very idea of the Beach Boys morphed from a self-contained five piece garage band to a full-fledged rock orchestra in which members come and go?

Good point… the continued existence of the/a band after the deaths of Dennis and Carl suggests that, in the eyes of their band mates – whose opinion counts more than anyone's – no one is indispensable.

The Beach Boys in all but name?

That's actually a pretty interesting idea.

Reading some of the replies here... it's a very valid point that the BBs should be looking forward. But if a next album, if there is one, is absolutely, positively, irreversibly the last collection of new material, I feel everyone should be on board, even the departed, as a worthy farewell.

If they do get another album out, then I wouldn't label it as a "farewell"… just a sign that anything can and will happen in BBLand.

And how will anyone know which "next album" will be the last? Who knows what will happen and when?

The guys should be living like there's no tomorrow and pumping albums out while there's still breath in their lungs.

If that would be the case, great!

I believe it may have been proposed to the group during the MADE IN CALIFORNIA track list discussions that they take Carl's unreleased solo track "It Could Be Anything" (aka "Where We Are") and add group vocals to make it a Beach Boys song, but the idea was nixed.

Lee

Interesting that this was thrown out there as an idea. Actually, while we are at it is this song from 1978, as it says on Andrew's site or is it from Carl's solo era?

How about making an album of some new songs about Surfin and dedicate it to the Memory of Dennis Wilson.  I have some new song titles for this album like

Soul Surfer (Dennis Wilson the Lone Surfer of the band)
California Surfer
California USA ( Surfin USA Type Song)

Could some just ban this troll already?!
I'm sick of him and his posts!

In soccer, players who demand a yellow card for a player of the other team, usually get a yellow card for themselves.

Honestly, as of now, I don't want to hear another BBs album.. What's left? Who's left, anyway. TWGMTR, whilst far from perfect, in a sense gave us closure with a great melancholic, yet ultimately life-affirming suite tucked to the end. I don't know if they could pull of another half-way decent LP without Dennis & Carl and with the producers / all the people they are surrounded with today. And - at least that's my impression - most of the individual BBs don't want to. I could be wrong, of course. But Solo-Brian is gathering steam with a couple of new album projects, a high-profile biopic and an autobiography, M&B are back to what's comfortable (and profitable) for them (can't blame 'em) and Al & David kind of tag along or do their own stuff. The 50th anniversary certainly was a high point in the band's entire career and perhaps the fitting moment to release one last LP - ending with "Summer's Gone".

I still expect TWGMTR to grow on me to a certain degree in the next couple of years/decades and at the same time anticipate some really cool stuff still to be released in the wake of Brian's seasoned solo career (along with a new BBs archival box now and then). At the same time I hope to see the M&B show in Germany at some point. Other than that, I've been blessed.

Of course I'm just reading tea leaves here, but I don't believe TWGMTR will be the last word. I think we're in for some serious mind expansion.

That doesn't sound like tea, but something else entirely. Brian's over that stuff! >:(

I agree with you. I never thought I'd get to that point, and my reasons are different from yours.

I know I'm in the minority, but I am tired of Brian Wilson digging out songs from who knows when, using multiple collaborators where you don't know who wrote what, and appearing to record the album, not because he wants to, but because it was somebody else's idea.

At least with the 50th Anniversary, they had a reason for an album project. But, now, it appears to me that it fell short in the reunion aspect. Mike's songwriting goals fell short, Al had his song(s) rejected, no Bruce songs, and David was underutilized.

Now, you can cite the 1962-67 period and say that TWGMTR was patterned after those albums with Brian the dominant songwriter/producer/leader. If that was their intention with TWGMTR, well, I think they fell short. How many new (2012) songs did Brian write? And, the one he did contribute (Bill & Sue), Joe Thomas wrote half (and the best part) of it. Who really composed the bulk of the title track? Who really produced the album? Hell, I'm even wondering how much of "Summer's Gone" Jon Bon Jovi wrote.

My point about having a reason to record an album - because you have something to say, because you have a bunch of new songs, because you ENJOY it - seems to have disappeared. Is it still possible, and it hasn't happened since Love You and (kind of with) M.I.U., for Brian Wilson to sit down and come up with an album's worth of new, good songs. If he can't, then why release an album. Or.....if it's a Beach Boys album, what is wrong with contributions from Al, Bruce, or David. THAT would've made it more of a real 2012 Beach Boys album. I guess that would explain all of Brian's solo live albums and covers albums, or why he keeps plucking songs from years and years ago. Yeah, I know most artists do that, but it appears that Brian does it to excess.

Thanks for allowing me to rant. I'm off work today due to snow and ice! :police:

Sheriff, that is a great sentiment, I have to agree overall. Apart from the finished product, the project itself "could have been" much more in terms of getting all of these musicians together again to make new music. And apart from contractual obligations that almost forced them to make a certain number of albums in their heyday of the 60's, there may have been more of a sense of them joining forces and truly making something new, from scratch, that may have spoken more to the enormity of getting all of these guys back in the studio.

That's not saying it wasn't enjoyable, nor casting a shadow over 2012 which was a really cool year for fans, but still...Sheriff is right, where were Al's songs, Bruce's songs, David's contributions (how about letting the guy rip and show his guitar talent on at least one extended solo on the album????), even some notion of a song that started with a blank piece of paper in 2012 instead of poaching a chorus here and a verse there from Joe's bag of DATs?

And the live album...these musicians are seasoned pros, their supporting musicians are consummate professionals...why not cut something like an "unplugged" album where they revisit and rework some of their best tunes?

It's anything but a tired concept, and look what it has done for the careers of artists in the past 25 years, from the Bee Gees to Clapton to Hall And Oates, to even Tony Bennett...you're getting fresh performances, in new settings, with enough familiarity to draw in all of your fans.

Instead we get the manufactured live album which still feels like an afterthought. Hmm.

 What a terrible burden this must add to your life!

@Sheriff & guitarfool: excellent points. I wholeheartedly agree.

Same here, that's a very valid perspective Sheriff. Something like a Sunflower, with someone at the helm - whether it be Carl & Desper as was, or Brian and Thomas or Sahanaja/Bennett/ANOther - to give it a cohesiveness would have he potential to be a fitting project. And I speak as one who loves (much of) TWGMTR and still plays it frequently.

No offense and I know you mean well and just have a different opinion than I do, but I hate sh*t like that.  They're dead, let them be dead.  Don't try to resurrect them by putting their vocals where they weren't intended.

With that said, I wouldn't have a problem if they would SAMPLE something as crazy as that sounds.  Hell do it subtle so only us real dyed in the wool fans even know about it.  Sample Dennis's drums.  Make some kick-ass rock song that about halfway through breaks down into a drum solo, that's something from a 70's concert with Dennis playing the drums or something, then mix the music back in and go on with the song. 

For Carl you could mix him into the background or something on a song...

I just have a big problem with it when they take someone who's dead, and make them the center of some gimmicked up song and have everybody sing around them.  It's almost macabre. 

If you mixed them into the background though it would be more fitting and in my opinion puts them where they belong: as part of the support and history of the group, something they take with them everywhere, but not the focus of the group or what the group's all about.  The Beach Boys, or any band, should be about life and what's going on right now.  If they want to be all about those of them that have passed away and their past, then they should all retire imho.

I know some will disagree, or not even understand the nuance, but I mean it with the greatest respect to Carl and Dennis, I just think life is for the living and we can't go around looking for every excuse to do a tribute to dead people.

I like the macabre.

This may sound blasphemous, but I've never been one to be hung up by motivations and philosophy.  So I don't have a problem with any band member's  intentions.  I don't particularly care how Brian felt on a certain day of recording or how many decades a track has been in the hopper, or frankly who wrote what parts of which songs.  These are non-factors for me at this point.  I don't care of it's a democratic album; no need to include a Bruce or Al track just for the sake of including them.  My mental cycles are already taxed enough.  I just want a new Beach Boys album.  

The only condition: that it sounds good.  If the remaining Boys and their collaborators can put something together that is cohesive, true to style, and sounds good-- I'm all in.  Fly-in vox  from Carl and Dennis are perfectly welcome, as are decades-old works in progress and whatever else pisses a lot of you off here.  Cohesive and sounds good-- that's all I ask.

I'm glad to be in a frame of mind to not care about that. I think "Summer's Gone" turned out as great as their 60s stuff, whoever wrote or produced it. Most of TWGMTR is really good, and it's our boys singing, so I'm happy about that. I wouldn't mind if they skipped the autotune thing for a hypothetical next album, add more rocking guitar and have some faster tracks on there... :)

See, now I think your statements are unfair to Brian. I'm not sure if you remember, and me you don't trust this guy, but Joe Thomas recounted in 2012 how Brian originally got a hold of him back in '08 to talk about the songs they had from their collaboration. They got together and did their thing, and Brian went to Capitol himself and pitched it as a Beach Boys album. Then he went to Mike Love and pitched it to him. And he also composed new songs for the album. So at least with that album, maybe some of the songs were older, but whatever. He seemed into doin' them and that's good enough for me. And while we're at it, as of 2012, he was still super proud of That Lucky Old Sun and also remember, Scott Bennett shared some stories about him and Brian working together, and (I'm pretty sure) Brian going over to Scott's to make demos and whatnot on his own volition. So I'd say that's another album he wanted to make. From what we've heard, he was also very into the Gershwin album and I think the vocals on that one bear it out. The Disney album? Well, that one smelled quite "contractual", but besides that, it seems like lately Brian's been doing what he wants in the studio.


As far as this, they put Brian in charge. He was excited about "Daybreak Over The Ocean", so it went on the album. He was apparently not excited about "Waves of Love", so that one didn't make it. And Bruce, well you know what? Maybe he should have submitted a song that wasn't already on a fucking Beach Boys album! And Dave, well, The Beach Boys were never really known for their guitars, and Dave  only has one lead vocal on a Beach Boys album. So if he's not really all over the album, well that's not really super important to me. Nor is it probably important to anybody outside of "the professor". Not to be a dick, but David Marks rejoining The Beach Boys wasn't exactly even close to being one of the more exciting parts of 2012 for me.  So anyways, if the other guys were underutilized, blame Brian, the producer, or shoot, blame the executive producer. Some guy named Mike Love.


Do you also worry about who wrote more of "Sail On, Sailor"? Cuz that one's murky! Tony Asher says he contributed music to Pet Sounds, does that you enjoy it any less? I'm pretty sure Gary Usher wrote a decent chunk of "Lonely Sea" but that's still a great song. So I don't know what the point of worrying about these things is. I'm sure Brian had his hand in it. I'd like to take them at their word on this stuff.


I actually pretty much agree with you. Which is why I think That's Why God Made The Radio worked so well. It was The Beach Boys as they are today. If all the songwriting wasn't brand new, oh well. It's Brian Wilson's music and it hadn't been released before, so it was "new"! Anyways, as I said before though, I do think "Baywatch Nights" (aka "Dancin' the Night Away") deserves release since it is an unfinished work of Brian's, from semi-recently (yes, I know thats almost 19 years), whereas if you take something of Carl or Dennis' and add vocals or whatever onto it, then it seems more inappropriate. I mean in The Beatles case, they agreed that without Lennon it couldn't be "The Beatles", so they had to use what they had, so I feel "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love" (and maybe "Now and Then") are okay to use. The Beach Boys still have Brian Wilson and Mike Love though, their two biggest names and voices, so it kinda erases the need to fit Carl and Dennis in there.

Summer of Love covered in 12 different styles