The Smiley Smile Message Board

Mike's wife Jacquelyne is posting some stuff on Facebook right now, using Mike's FB account; the phrase "Wilson-driven negativity" could be a huge clue to the disharmony that's preventing the real Beach Boys working together…

(Mods: if you judge this is intrusive please delete but as it's being out out on a public forum and dissemination could be in the fans' interest, I hope this is okay)…


"Patricia,
Again, Mike and i are so grateful for your support, we are in transit to new York for Howard stern's birthday party..... we just tuned into The Beach Boys facebook page, we need you and whom ever else you think will go onto the page and post positive comments about Mike.  talk about their favorite songs Mike either sings or has written.....this Wilson driven negativity has to stop.... Please contact as many as you can to go onto The Beach boys FB and like the post and be positive.... if we band together darkness turns to light.
All our Love,
Jacquelyne"

I don't do facebook but what are 'the Wilsons' saying on the Beach Boys page?

What recent statement/event from the Wilson side of the world prompted this statement from Mike's wife? Something musta sparked it or was it an accumulation of things from the past?

Is "Patricia" Patricia Ferrelli?

Yes Mikie, that's the one.

Seems to be triggered by abusive posts from fans on a story about Mike getting the Ella award.

I'm wondering if the phrase "Wilson driven negativity" might be poorly chosen and referring more to negativity from fans driven by some urge to give all the credit cor the BBs' success to BW while demeaning Mike's massive contribution … she's also posted this, in response to a supportive message:

"...It's very hurtful to Mike who tries to take the high road, but I won' tolerate the assassination of my husband, the father of my children and my best friend anymore.  he has worked tirelessly to keep this music alive, he has live through drug abuse, Manson madness,death threats, the death of his family members and so much more but he still wears a sense of positivity....he amazes me
Thank you for your kind support and love of the music."

The assumption that the abusive posts are from Brian fans is an easy one to leap to. Sadly, in the vast majority of cases, it's also the correct one.

BTW, and FWIW - probably IMHYEO too - "Wilson-driven negativity" could refer to the current version of the Brianistas foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of Mike's name.

You go to any page about The Beach Boys, you're going to see anti-Mike comments.

I feel like anyone who actually knows about the BBs won't do the whole "Mike is an asshole" thing. Not liking him is understandable, but its only justified if you are informed.

It should all pass eventually. The constant flaming died down quite a bit until the 50th anniversary ended, right? From that point on he was the bad guy again. Must be really unpleasant for his family.

I am a Brian fan but will never understand the fun in hating Mike Love. I wonder if Mike's wife thinks Brian was somehow fueling this hate? And if so, is there some truth in it?

I don't mind a reasoned argument, or even a reasoned rant, but posting (in essence) "Mike Love is an asshole because he's Mike Love and not Brian Wilson" is getting very tedious. But, given the apparent mental acuity of these posters, I'm not surprised. Mike's no saint: he's said and done stuff I'm sure he regrets, mostly in public it would seem, but know what ? So have the rest of the band.

If you check out some of the comments sections on internet threads where Ambha Love has posted about her dad, there are some absolutely disgusting and just plain wrong sentiments raised by certain types of Beach Boys fans.

For Mike (and his family) to stay as levelheaded about this kind of abuse is damn saintly if you ask me.

Gotta say I was very impressed by Jacqueline's jumping to her husband's defence so solidly. It's a side of Beachworld we rarely get to see…

They're not fans. New-school Brianistas more like. I'm a card-carrying Brianista of the old school, class of 1978, and they make me cringe. That thread that asked if you were ever embarrassed to be a BB fan ? This is one such time.

AGD's right, it's Wilsonistas, not Wilsons that are saying what's being said.

Hoping that "Wilson driven negativity" might get a better definition at some stage as it is very ambiguous as it stands.

Well of course I am.  :old

It's exact meaning may never be clarified but for what it's worth I can hear Mike singing the phrase repeatedly in his 'Shut Down' voice.

I for one think conflating "anti-Mike" with "Wilson" or "Brianista" or "pro-Brian" is a dangerous leap, and those making it are, in my mind, showing their own bias.

If one feels that Mike Love is being unfairly maligned in any way, how difficult is it to call that behavior out by characterizing it correctly as unfair towards Mike Love. Why would they need to charcterize it as "Wilson driven?" First of all, that implies it is driven by the actual "Wilsons" rather than "Wilson fans", and if it is actually meant only to refer to "Wilson fans", then it paints such a broad stroke about Wilson fans that there's no way to tell which "Wilson fans" they are talking about. Pretty much any Mike fan or BB fan is probably usually a Wilson fan too, right?

The wingnuts saying the truly nasty things online about Mike Love are doing so because they are unfairly (if we're talking about those going past fair criticism) biased against Mike Love, or simply because they are nuts. They clearly have more going on than simply being devout Wilson fans, because most devout Wilson fans are not perpetrating whatever it is that has elicited this recent response.

This facebook crap on the one hand clearly shows they are frustrated with the anti-Mike comments and sentiment. That's fair enough (I haven't seen what they're specifically referring to, so I don't know whether these supposed anti-Mike comments are fair criticism or not). But immediately dialing in on "Wilson driven" tells me they are overly-sensitive specifically about Brian Wilson getting all of the accolades. After all this time, it really is still an ego thing relating to Brian. To me, that's extremely telling of what's still going on after 53 freaking years.

To me, there's still no true objective self-awareness in that Mike Love camp. There's no perspective. Like with the reunion tour mess, not once did Love seem to step back and comment objectively that he clearly looked like a d**k even if he wasn't actually being one neccesarily. The guy refuses to acknowledge why people don't like him, and why he has the awful reputation he has. I think I've occasionally seen him acknowledge that his sarcastic sense of humor doesn't translate.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for his or his camp's jumping to his defense if some humility was involved more often. I don't mean just saying Mike is humble, but actually admitting mistakes or trying to understand why people may not like some of the things he does. If just once in awhile he would say "yeah, I can see why people might be pissed off that I continue to use the Beach Boys name to tour" or "yeah, I can understand some people might be frustrated that "Kokomo" appeals to me more than "Smile", and so on.

Does Brian or Al or anybody offer these sorts of humble moments? I don't know, but they aren't attacked in the same fashion and don't have anywhere near the level or criticism lobbed at them. Maybe that's one of those things that is telling in and of itself.

WHAT??? For her to say "Wilson-driven" is just wrong.  >:(

Terribily unimpressed, babe.

The truth is Michael and his antics over the years paved the way for the ridicule he receives.
Yes, I know some of it is overly-harsh and over-the-top

Using the name "Wilson" for your stalking horse is also over the top. good grief.

I do agree after all these years, Mike is jealous of BW's legacy. I think part of the envy stems from Mike's legacy to the general public ranging from irrelevant to a jerk living off his cousin's music.

I think she is talking about fans or haters, not the Wilsons specifically.  The phrasing is very poor though.

As a BB fan I am continually amazed and disgusted by the comments directed towards Mike on Youtube.  Virtually any song that Mike sings on you will find something nasty said about him.  I just don't get it.

I can understand being upset at your loved-one being attacked and the desire to want to kick the ass of whoever is doing the attacking. But is bringing in the Wilson-name really necessary?

It's because they are losers with nothing better to do than try and annoy people without having to defend their inane comments and opinions. Like the clown that just posted before you....never adds anything of substance to any thread but always chimes in at every possible chance to rip on Mike.

When Brian started his solo touring in 98-99, and the shows opened with a short film, some people booed when Mike was on screen. Brian was not happy about it. If you have any respect for Brian you might remember that.

SNAFU

Aint that the truth. *sigh & shrugs shoulders*

Pardon me, I don't like a personal attack like that. I am way more knowledgeable in all things BBs to not like Mike Love than people on youtube. Can we agree he is a controversial figure and leave it at that. 

Right. I think.

I don't think we should get into this again. Its been squeezed for all we can get out of it, and unless any new information comes out, it should be left that way.
As long as no one takes it persona.....
ah. very cool man.

Communication is everything.

If she meant an attack directed at Mike that was driven by fans (who are very protective) of Brian, that is not what she typed.

Exactly. When I read the initial FB post my first thought was that The Wilson's themselves had been putting out negative comments.

She's as bad at making peace as Mike is.

She's not saying Brian Wilson is driving negativity, she's saying Brian's supporters are being negative and talking sh*t about Mike, which is true in a large part. 

If the fans talk sh*t about Mike on every forum in the world and on his facebook page, why in the world would he ever get the band back together for the fans? 

Do you see any Mike Love fans going around talking sh*t about Brian?  They wouldn't have a leg to stand on, so maybe that's it, but the point is valid. 

You know, there's really no excuse for bad behavior on the internet. Mike and his family have to be tired of the constant berating he gets. He earned this award, and has every right to enjoy it and be proud of it, without any of the previous backlash coming into it. However, this situation is a good example of how Mike seems to perpetuate that very backlash. I mean, really. Doesn't Mike have anyone in his organization who understands PR? Because Mike is is own worst enemy, most times.

Yes, Brian has very rabid fans. Yes, they are protective and often view Mike as the bad guy. But, Mike often makes it easy to dislike him. For example, since the "I felt like I was fired" business blew over, most of the negativity about the C50 and TWGMTR has come from Mike. Something that Beach Boys fans and Brian fans were excited about and considered a professional and personal triumph is belittled by Mister Positivity.  You can't lay down the negative vibes, then be upset when they come back to smack you in face. Dragging the Wilsons into this situation when they're not even a part of it isn't helpful. It's just going to make the Brian fans more protective, and further cement their opinion of Mike.

Seriously. He needs to fire his PR guy and take a Dale Carnegie course.

Interesting, Andrew, your observation of "factions" of fans which have evolved, and who have become polarized, and I think, unfortunately, when the "principals" are happy for one another. Blood is still thicker than water. We all love the music. And not unlike politics where discord often erupts, sadly, more among the competing campaign staff, rather than candidates themselves who behave more appropriately and professionally.  Good for Ambha and Mrs. Love to "stand up."

Mike has ONLY sent his very best wishes, anytime Brian was feted, at some award or another.  True, gracious and sincere congrats, always to his cuzz.  Mike is one of those essential BB voices, whether it is Little St. Nick, or Fun, Fun, Fun, the baritone a cappellas, or the myriad of other BB hits over the 50+ years, not to mention his vast lyrical contribution.  Any awards to any BB's reflect positively upon the entire BB/BW "sphere." They have the same "roots." It's all good!

Bravo Mike!  :beer

+1.

To the public at large, I think that Mike has become the most hated musician in the history rock and roll – am I off base by saying that?

And it freaking sucks that this is the case, but that’s what I think the polls would say if they were conducted. And the guy’s lack of self-awareness has to be the main culprit for this reputation.    

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. ALL that Mike has to do is to open up a conversation or an interview where he addresses stuff like this a little bit. Where he expresses some self awareness, and a digs beyond the simple “I have a sarcastic sense of humor” thing.  

Mike needs to talk about some past regrets of his own actions, and show that he can grasp the concept that his personality clashed with Brian’s personality over the years, in specific ways that wound up with Brian feeling deeply hurt, and that he is sincerely sorry if he ever caused anybody any pain. I think Mike is afraid to do that, because it would open up the conversation to Mike having to take even a tiny, tiny portion of responsibility for having been a piece of the puzzle that led to Brian’s subsequent decline.  

Seriously, a single sincere interview like, where he’d answer some tough questions without blaming everything on the Wilsons’ drug use and Murry (two huge culprits, but not the entire picture), would help diffuse a great deal of “Pro-Wilson” fan anger that’s been directed against Mike for decades. I think that’s the giant bug up every Wilsonista’s butt – it’s not simply the fans dwelling on bad things that went down between these guys decades ago, but what REALLY gets peoples’ goats, IMO, is Mike’s continued current-day refusal (at least in terms of public acknowledgement) to address ways in which his own behavior/actions in the past could have profoundly negatively affected others around him.

It’s painful to see Mike’s family deeply hurt by reading purely hateful, mindless ranting online… but I would think Mike's wife and daughter would realize that Mike letting his guard down, and approaching difficult territory like this would ultimately help the situation in a significant way.  I'd love to think that his family could get him to realize this. But maybe they've drank the Kool Aid too.

"Wilson driven negativity"

Such ideas aren't generally created in a vaccuum...may give some insight into how her spouse feels about the Wilsons...

I’m curious about this. How often over the years has Mike even been asked to comment on various awards or accolades Brian has received? I don’t recall Mike specifically saying anything negative about such events (Mike was pretty dismissive of Brian’s “Smile” album, which eventually won Brian a grammy, but that was I suppose more indirect negatively from Mike). But do we have any comment of any sort from Mike regarding, say, his “Musicares” honor, or his Kennedy Center honor event? My perception is that all of the BB’s generally either never comment on this stuff, and in rare cases when they do, they certainly don’t criticize any fellow members for awards or recognition.

But I’m also curious why Mike’s position on Brian’s accolades matters here. Has Brian said anything negative about this Mike Love event, or any accolades Mike has received?

This is indeed all from fans, but unless Brian or his camp are encouraging or conspiring with fans to say negative things about Mike, then we’re talking about some conglomeration of fans, not Brian. I would even go so far as to say that a good hunk of the really awful, almost cartoonishly over-the-top anti-Mike stuff on the internet comes more from general s***-disturbers and trolls than it does from ardent, loyal, sane Brian Wilson fans.

IIRC there was a lovely congratulatory post on Facebook. I'm at a disadvantage, (or advantage) not to be on Facebook to access past posts. 

There hasn't been a Brian quote, but, I've not been looking for them.  I will tell you that having seen the Touring Band as often as possible, Mike Love heaps praise ad infinitum to his cousin.  Every show.  That is public. 

And, I would doubt that Brian himself would involve himself.  He has classy people around him.  If Mike is so "hated" why are the shows consistent sell outs? And, congrats always come from Johnston on BBB, in the Touring Band, and IIRC, one was from the wonderful Kennedy Center awards, I think in 2009.  Unfortunately, you can only access about ten pages of postings. 

.....................and yet another negative Mike Love thread.  They never go away.  After remaining dormant for a few weeks without posting, people come out of the woodwork to addresss the issue of Mike Love. And this time there wasn't even an interview to talk about.

Jaqui Love blaims it on Brian's fans.  She's use to that. Now she's being vocal about it. It's her prerogative. So what? There's nothing new here. The antagonism towards Mike went away pretty much during the C50 and resumed afterwards. I think the only way it's going away is if the two camps get back together again for a few concerts or in the studio. That's what the fans want - if they don't get it, the anti-Mike sentiment will unfortunately continue.

Wasn't there friction between Melinda and Jacqui during the C50? Rumor still has it that there were issues between the two. They all need to kiss and make up.

Safe to say that Mike and his camp feel that the Beautiful Dreamer DVD where Brian calls out Mike specifically as being a culprit for SMiLE’s demise would constitute Exhibit A of “Wilson-driven negativity”.

I haven't seen the program, what did Brian say about Mike and Smile?

The fact that Carnie and Wendy will be there for Mike's fete should be enough validation for Mike and his wife that he is respected by the people who count in his life. Why feed the trolls by letting them know they upset you.  Jackie needs to calm down, it's only the internet. As for death threats, report them to the FBI.

Right!  Carnie and Wendy will be there representing the Wilsons.  And probably more.  Somebody probably just hit a nerve with Jackui.

This hasnt just been voiced by Brian alone - uh oh here we go again.

On the other hand, maybe Jacquie has a point. When people continue to blame Mike for Brian's mental health problems of the past 40 or so years, there's no rest for the weary.

Pardon me, it's people like you that the less knowledgeable people on you tube get their falsities from. To suggest Mike is a controversial figure is a cop out. You continually chime in every damn chance you get to let us all know you think Mike sucks. WE ALREADY KNOW HOW YOU FEEL! The controversy comes from you and your ilk. It is intentional and tiresome.

Mike Love was a Beach Boy from day one. He will be a Beach Boy after he is gone. He has done some foolish things and I agree it's foolish that he tours as "the Beach Boys".  That said, his contributions to the Beach Boys and the Beach Boys legacy are huge. His voice and lyrics are on many of the Beach Boys most outstanding records, and he was ALWAYS a great showman and brought a lot of fun and life to the live shows. He not only deserves respect he has more than earned it.

I have no interest in Jimi Hendricks music even though I acknowledge he was an innovative guitarist. Do you know how ignorant it would be for me to go to a website where a lot of people like Jimi and constantly take potshots and jabs at him. Or to go to a Van Halen site and praise Eddie all of the time and keep bitching about David? I don't think you do. People like you get some kind of inane kick out of telling people over and over and over what your position on something is. We get it! You and OSD and a few other regular posters here can't stand Mike Love because you erroneously believe he ruined the genius Brian Wilson.

If you want to "leave it at that" then I suggest for the next year or ten when a thread comes up and you feel the need to rip on Mike, then you just click on the next thread and let it go.............

Why the hell would you blame me for the asshats on youtube. All it takes for the average person to dislike Mike Love is to look up "Beach Boys Rock and roll hall of fame" to see Mike hogging the stage like a complete wacko. Also, Mike has toured with the BBs name for 50 years but It doesn't mean it was healthy or good to do so. The 1980-1998 Beach Boys under his leadership were a joke of a recording live act with Carl and Al marginalized. This  period turned the group into Mike's tacky solo group in everything but name only. It took BW's solo touring and release of smile to get Mike to actually put on a good show with deeper cuts beside the "hits" and covers that Mike sang thousands of times with a horrible nasal "whine" that was a parody of his classic voice. I don't like Mike Love because he "ruined" BW, its because he is an absolute joke as recording and performing leader of the BBs who can't see the forest for the trees for why the BBs are legends.

How do you figure that Mike marginalized Carl & Al? Mike had one quarter of the vote. Depending on Brian's vote, Carl and Al could have out voted Mike on almost anything if they stuck together. With no solid recording contract, the writing was on the wall. Their business was as a live act, not recording artists. I am sure that what went down was agreed upon by all parties. If anyone was marginalized, it was only one of the two, and if that was the case, then someone sided with Mike. Just my opinion.

Mike is getting on (as aren't we all), and it's sad that he and his family are not able to fully enjoy the acclaim that a lifetime of accomplishments would otherwise entitle him to. Mike helped to create an amazing body of work, and doesn't deserve all the brickbats thrown his way.

Many pop stars have acted much worse than Mike in their careers without receiving  one tenth the grief from "fans" that Mike does-- but Mike Love isn't cool. He's dorky and sometimes crass, which makes him easy to mock and even -- for some -- to hate.

He's in his 70s now, time to forgive the bad and celebrate the good.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Hey, the fence is down and the cows are in the field. There is NOthing on God's green earth that can change popular bias other than Mike coming 'clean' and (as noted) accept a little humble introspection in how everything went down in the day. "It was the drugs"...yeah, sure it was. No...it was family who while blood, were growing apart from one another over the years.

A CLEAN AND SOBER Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson would STILL STILL STILL have issues with Mike Love and his overly sanitized corporate carnival-show branding of the band in the 80's. (Of course, a clean n' sober crew might have settled this discord as well, but so it goes)

It's just that Mike's a willing target, that's all. And quite deserving of much of the cynicism directed his way. He made his bed...let him meditate in it.

I don't think Mike will ever "apologize."  It's how he feels. If he said otherwise, he would be lying, and people would know he was lying. What he CAN do is stop talking about the past so much. If he's Mr. Positivity (gotta love how that always comes up as a misspelled word when you type it in, because it's a word of Mike's invention only), why does he spend so much time being Mr. Negativity? Maybe this ELLA award should inspire him to stop being so dependent on the Beach Boys for validation. He can record his own songs instead of waiting for a call from Brian that may never come. If he can't come up with songs of his own, he can try his hand at covering the old standards or hit's of the '70s or something. It worked for Barry Manilow and Rod Stewart.

Well, I don't know a whole lot, but what I do know is that Mike definitely did not invent the word "positivity."

"Wilson driven" better describes the music Mike performs at every show.

The thread title made me think that this was Mike Love yet again saying he is Mr. Positivity and Brian Wilson is Mr. Negativity.
To say the least, its misleading for Love's family to brand nasty comments on facebook as "Wilson driven negativity" when Brian likely has nothing to do with it.

....or does he?????  >:D

I think The Beach Boys' story has already been written, with all the stereotypes and characterizations conveniently finding their places. Yeah, some of those stereotypes and characterizations can and will be disproven over time on forums such as message boards, books, and movies. Do they then become myths? In some cases, yes. However, that's just the beginning. It takes a long time for myths to then become truths. A long, long time.     

I think that the past year has proved that the haters are a minority (albeit a vocal one) and maybe Mike's wife would be better off remembering that.

As others have said, Brian's daughters will be performing at the ceremony along with other Beach Boys progeny and Matt Jardine has appeared on stage with the group this year. They clearly don't have an issue with Mike.

Also, the general public has continued to go out to watch the group in their droves and to them Mike is just the frontman of a legendary group. The vast majority of people couldn't care less about the politics...

Guess we better all watch what we say seeing Utube and all internet angst directed against Mike Love is fueled from here and led by Smile Brian.  ::)

  Like the rest of The Beach Boys, Mike Love has been in the public eye for 50 years. That's half a century of performances, interviews, and actions which are well documented. If people do not like him, it isn't because they haven't been exposed to "who he is."

 

 

Jimmy Savile was in the public eye for 50 years and many people did like him or he wouldn't have had such a successful career. They had no idea who he was.

Any famous person can have an image that can be far removed from reality.

That's got to be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read on this site and that's saying something. The very mention of Savile invites readers to equate Mike with him and whatever sh*t Mike has done, he does not deserve it. The negativity is not Wilson-driven, it's driven by ignorance.

Maybe you should actually read what I said again and think about it before you react. Think about the meaning and the context.

And FYI I have been criticized many times on this board as a 'Mike-defender'.

Other than that you may have a good point though. :-D

Here's a wiki on the 'Society of Singers' and the Ella Award.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Singers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Singers)

Recipients

    Ella Fitzgerald (1989)
    Frank Sinatra (1990)
    Tony Martin (1992)
    Peggy Lee (1994)
    Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme (1995)
    Lena Horne (1997)
    Rosemary Clooney (1998)
    Joe Williams (1999)
    Tony Bennett (2000)
    Julie Andrews (2001)
    Plácido Domingo (2002)
    Barry Manilow (2003)
    Celine Dion (2004)
    Elton John (2005)
    Johnny Mathis (2006)
    Gladys Knight (2007)
    Andy Williams (2008)
    Herb Alpert & Lani Hall (2009)
    Natalie Cole (2010)

It's a fundraiser at the end of the day, as well as an opportunity for the entertainment business to honor one of their own. It's a far far cry from the Kennedy Honors - it just is what it is. Get your tuxedo and smile for the camera. Honey, you look mahvelous.

Thanks for your informative post, Doo Dah. I really wasn't following the Society Of Singers/Ella Award aspect of this thread as close as I should have, focusing more on the yet-again bashing of Mike Love. But, hey, while it might not be the Kennedy Honors and the like, those previous winners of the Ella Award ain't chopped liver either! Mike can be proud to join that company. Congratulations!

It's pretty hard to read a dumb example like that in any other way and the context goes out of the window when you name check a paedophile.  Let's just say your choice of Savile was  stupid then and we can shake hands.

Just agree you over reacted and shake hands.

Sending more instructions to my youtube minions as we speak..... ;)

If you've ever looked at Mike Love's Facebook page, you can understand why his wife is upset.   

Name check? Hardly.

Of course context doesn't go out of the window and obviously people should be allowed to mention paedophiles. It was silence that allowed Savile to go to his grave a free man after all.

The point was that a person can have a public image which is completely different from who they really are. now an earlier poster indicated that they thought that because Mike may have a NEGATIVE public image and that he had handled himself badly in some interviews that the public 'know him' to some extent.

A negative public image does not necessarily make a negative person and the same goes for a positive public image.

This is something that athlete Michael Johnson has discussed with regard to Oscar Pistorius (is mentioning a man accused of murder more acceptable?  :P ) He knew that while the public image of him may have been of one thing, that the actual human being was something very different.

That's all. Mike may have a bad public image in some people's eyes but if they've never met him then they haven't got a clue what he is really like.

I have never heard of Mike being rude to any fans (and he wasn't to me) so maybe that should count for something.  I also recently received the Billy Hinche "24" Hours DVD and he seems to like him.  Also Ed Roach seems to (his wife Annie also congratulated Mike on his Facebook page), and I think if he had been such a nasty piece of work to Dennis and Brian and everyone else they or the Wilson family would not have anything to do with him, which is not the case.  I don't happen to agree with his vision of what the Beach Boys were or should be but I also don't think it should make him a hate figure with people who don't even know him.

I subscribe to all the Beach Boys' various pages, and there seems to be more positive than negative on Mike's page from his fans. The Beach Boys page may be a different matter. But there again, there are positive things written by people who like going to Mike's shows. His wife should try to focus on the positive, like the nice comments from Mike's band members. She's never going to get people to like her husband by telling people who like him to post nice things, because they already do. Perhaps they ought to delete the most flagrantly negative comments if they're that upsetting and block the people who liked his page just so they could post the nasty comments. I'm pretty sure Facebook allows that. As for the people making threats, report them to the police. The police and FBI take internet harassment very seriously these days.

I remember a fan on a mailing list explaining how he knew Mike was an ass because Mike didn't smile enough while autographing a dozen items the fan shoved at him.

Mike bashing is a wonderful thing. It helps us to know those who appreciate the band for their music and those who are cultists (copyright Mike's the Greatest).

You know, Mike & I started out friends through Dennis, however, in the brief time in between meeting & my move west, their relationship became contentious - and I won't get into the reasons why, they are laid out in various books - look at the '68/'69 period.  Still, there existed a warmth between us for several years, and we were thrown together quite a bit between the road & my ex wife running Brother Studio.  However, when Dennis began his serious decent, I got labeled with a guilt by association, and not always unfairly.  Hell, if I couldn't have partied with the best of them, Dennis & I never would have been so close.  Still, Mike was among those that never could have comprehended the pain I went through, trying to save Dennis from himself.

As they say, time heals all wounds, and when I saw Mike backstage at the 50 show at The Hollywood Bowl, we had an interesting exchange.  I then spent over half an hour talking with Stan Love for the first time in years, & we covered quite a bit of our history together.  When Howie ran into Stan at the concert the next night, Stan had the greatest things to say to Howie about me!  I also had  run into Mike at LAX a few years back, and he took the time to introduce Jackie & I and ask how my life was going, so I'd say I think we all realize how lucky we are to be blessed with long, healthy lives, and maybe it's time to move on.

Now Mike posts a photo of mine on his website; maybe it's a new day!  https://www.facebook.com/roachclips68

And I see you acknowledged Mike and his Ella Award, Ed.  Cool.

Mike has played a huge part in creating his public perception, a lot of the stuff people hate him for he actually did do.

It's how celebrity works, people always pick up on the negative. Mike rarely get's acknowledged for his incredible lyrics and singing but he get's bashed for Smile, Full House The RN'R Hall of Fame and basically being the reason The Beach Boys are a traveling fun fair act, it's pretty hard to defend those actions.

The 50th anniversary should have put him in the good books but instead he committed his biggest public faux pas, he "fired Brian Wilson".

Agreed. Not to mention he's responsible for SIP

But who, outside of music fans, has even heard of SIP? It wasn't a big deal, just a little blip in the BBs long history.

Baywatch fans would be familiar with one of the songs from SIP, as well as Full House fans.  :lol

But I guess you're right

I would say it's kind of a big deal. I mean not huge, but even friends of mine that I've helped turn into Beach Boys fans, do recognize that before the C50 reunion, the last "active" Beach Boys (besides the Mike & Bruce show) they remember is the joke of a group that appeared on Full House and Home Improvement, and sang "Forever" with Jesse Katsopolis. So maybe not Summer In Paradise itself, but at least one recording from that album and the accompanying pathetic video and whatnot.

Hey, you're short-changing Baywatch fans ;D they were treated to two songs from SIP!

Mike is often his own worst enemy, getting positive reviews for both the 50th tour and album, then blowing it with a poorly handled and poorly represented switch back to the Mike and Bruce Beach Boys.  I'm not sure I agree with this:

"It's very hurtful to Mike who tries to take the high road"

Really?  the lawsuits against Brian for Smile, and for the Brian comp free CD in the UK?  That's the high road?  (The lawsuit for song royalties I can forgive as most of it was legit).  And all the moaning about TWGMTR and only wanting another album on his terms, him and Brian alone wirting in the studio - all that's not exactly ingratiating him into the fans' good graces.  He has been the oppositie of "positivfity" about the 50th album and tour, and the possibility of another album or tour.  

All that doesn't excuse fans being rude and disrespectful on the man's facebook page though.  Leave that to the discussion boards like this!

I actually never knew that!
I know one was Summer of Love, what was the other?

Why, Summer In Paradise, of course ;D

http://youtu.be/6r3zz_5Qc4E?t=6m33s (http://youtu.be/6r3zz_5Qc4E?t=6m33s)

Wow that's embarrassing. Mike couldn't sound more nasal!
Surprised to see David Marks there, equally surprised that Carl wasn't

I like Mike.  I like Brian.   But friends who know what a  BB fan I have been have emailed and asked whynMike broke up
the Beach Boys after their  successful reunion.    it's like even   casual followers seem to think Mike is the bad guy.

Articles appeared in magazines and online saying Mike fired Brian.    Who planted the anti mike seed with the media after the reunion tour?

I assumed that when she mentioned 'taking the high road' she was talking about Mike not complaining about Brianistas and not making insulting comments in return.

It may have something to do with the fact that they taped two appearances for the Baywatch episode as shown at Bellagio 10452 http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs95.html (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs95.html).  According to the casting sheet which appears in the June 1995 issue of ESQ (p. 19), the "Summer of Love" video was taped April 25, 1995. Whilst Mike, Al, Bruce, Matt and Richie Cannata were on set mid-morning, Brian, Carl, and Stamos arrived later that afternoon, which may explain why they appear predominantly towards sunset in the video.

I'm guessing that the "concert" portion was recorded at the second taping, hence no Carl, Brian, or Stamos for whatever reasons. According to accounts in The Lost Beach Boy by Jon Stebbins, this era coincides with Mike reconnecting with David Marks so perhaps Mike invited him to participate.

Judging from Brian's expression, that taping was the first time he'd heard the song (and very likely the last).

:lol

Media shitstorm during the silly season, and possibly some adept media manipulation. It'll be most amusing, and instructive, when the true story of the ending of the C50 tour (why, when and by whom) emerges. And it will: these are The Beach Boys, remember. Might take a few years, maybe a decade or two, but what actually happened will become public knowledge. It always does.  ;)

No, Cam. I think anything that vaguely invites comparison between Mike and a paedophile is unfair, whatever the context.

Sorry but as I said my reputation (not that I have one) on this board is that I am a 'Mike defender'.

Obviously I wasn't inviting comparisons which I have explicitly stated and while maybe I could understand you misinterpreting my first post (as it may have been non-clearly worded), I can't understand how you could still be under any misapprehensions.

After all, Charles Manson has been mentioned in the same posts as band members thousands of times. That doesn't mean comparisons are being invited.

Context is everything...

Anyway, let's get back on topic shall we...

Sigh.  I'm not criticising your Mike-defending credentials. For all I know you have the badge and hat, but by mentioning Savile, you're creating a whole other context and a one that's unnecessary.

It was an example. Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong are another two.

One that only you seem to be concerned about.

So please get back on topic and stop continuing the comparison that was never there.

I would agree that there are some pretty impressive names on that list. Along with a few lesser lights...

Should be an interesting show if any of it is televised or appears on Youtube.

It wasn't a comparison, it was an illustration of a point. Now agree and shake hands.

It was a bad choice of an example to illustrate a point with which I agree, mom. 

Geez, Ed and Nick, find a middle ground, wouldja?  Or agree to disagree and bail out. Ed should be commended for his adamant stance and animosity towards the sick minds of pedophiles. And Nick doesn't want a comparison either. Cooilios to both sides.

One thing that I didn't see discussed on this thread and still up for conjecture:

What in the hell is Mike doing in the company of these singers? Serious. Do the people who do the Ella award feel that they need to start getting Rock stars on the group? I mean Mike being compared to ANY ONE of these people as a singer is incredulous. After all, Mike is in the company of SOLO artists who recorded their own stuff or covers. And the quality of the voice. Mike is no crooner or belter. There a few I'd put on this list before Mike Love. Perry Como, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin, Aretha Franklin, Barbara Streisand, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Mel Torme to name just a few....

    Ella Fitzgerald (1989)
    Frank Sinatra (1990)
    Tony Martin (1992)
    Peggy Lee (1994)
    Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme (1995)
    Lena Horne (1997)
    Rosemary Clooney (1998)
    Joe Williams (1999)
    Tony Bennett (2000)
    Julie Andrews (2001)
    Plácido Domingo (2002)
    Barry Manilow (2003)
    Celine Dion (2004)
    Elton John (2005)
    Johnny Mathis (2006)
    Gladys Knight (2007)
    Andy Williams (2008)
    Herb Alpert & Lani Hall (2009)
    Natalie Cole (2010

Mikie, Society of Singers website says: "Society of Singers produces an annual fundraiser and gala event — The ELLA Award — for whom singers are awarded for their contribution to the world of music along with their dedicated efforts to benefit the community and worldwide causes." So it is not solely for being a "legendary singer".

I was reading an article about the Ella Awards....The Ella Award is given to singers whose significant musical accomplishments are equaled by their dedication to charitable and humanitarian causes both local and international.

Wow, who'd a thunk it? The Beach Boy whose only concern is making a buck...Mike can be proud of this award, regardless of "the company" he is in.

Well, you can bet your sweet bippy that the ones I added to the list also fit that bill. Where's McCartney? He should be next. And Bono. And Jon Bon Jovi.  They've unarguably given everything but their left nuts to charity for the community and World well-being.

Media shitstorm during the silly season, and possibly some adept media manipulation. It'll be most amusing, and instructive, when the true story of the ending of the C50 tour (why, when and by whom) emerges. And it will: these are The Beach Boys, remember. Might take a few years, maybe a decade or two, but what actually happened will become public knowledge. It always does.

Why not tell us the reason now, as you know it.
 

Hopefully the truth will be in Brian's upcoming book.

Hey, Mikie, there's still time. Mike Love doesn't get the Ella Award until February 20, 2014. Maybe if we all write to the Society Of Singers, and tell them that Mike Love was responsible for Brian Wilson scrapping SMiLE, that Mike Love publicly disapproves of Dennis Wilson's self-destructive behavior, and that Mike Love was solely responsible for ending the Beach Boys' 50 Anniversary - they'll rescind his award and give it to....Bono!

The internet media crowd jumped all over the 'it feels I've been fired from my own band' comment from Brian. Brian is a master at playing the victim card.

A standard of excellence.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/ofakwg.jpg)

Nah, it's too late.  He's already been considered and approved of.  And since Smile has finally been 'released', that point is mute now.

Hey, I'm a humanitarian too, ya know. I give to charity as a tax WRITE OFF.  Anybody else here do that?  I know Mike Love does.....

Notice she said "Wilson-driven negativity", not specifically "Brian Wilson-driven negativity."

I'm sure you and many others are equally deserving. Your turns will come. Eventually.

Would that some posters were too...

Guess I'm just one big f*ck*ing tease, huh ?  ;)

 :lol
Out of everyone in the world, why did it have to be Mike Love?
Its not like he is known to be a great singer.
If they wanted to give it to a Beach Boy, (and although he's dead) they should have gave it to Carl.

Would have been a short show though...

I think any award for singing that gave one to Herb Alpert can justify giving one to Mike Love. Did Herb even sing very much? He was a trumpeter, not a singer. His one big singing hit, "This Guy's In Love With You," was not a very good performance.

I wouldn't put someone down for giving to charity because "it's a tax write-off." It's still money out of their pocket. If they have a 50% tax bracket and give $20,000, that's $10,000 they could have kept for themselves. There are also more creative ways to dodge taxes than giving to charity that don't involve so much out of pocket. That said, though, there are plenty of singers who give to charity. Why Mike? The foundation may prefer to give the award to singers who actually show up. After all, the award ceremony is itself a way to raise money for the Ella Foundation. What good would it be giving it to Bono or McCartney if they don't show up (they wouldn't) and there's not much of an awards ceremony to attract ticket buyers?

I also think Mike's involvement in Transcendental Meditation and TM charities worked in his favor. A lot of people in the entertainment business are into TM. It's become fashionable again. Mike being at TM events with the David Lynch Foundation and other Hollywood TM people helped his image in the community.

Thanks for that reply Ed.  I kinda thought at some point things might have gotten a bit difficult  between you guys but it's good that things have been sorted out.  And yes, I like the picture of yours Mike posted on his Facebook.  I always thought it summed up some of his relationship with Dennis.  Mike looked as though he wasn't sure what to make of Dennis but at the same time they had some good memories together.  They seemed to have that classic love/hate thing going on even right to the end.  I think Dennis probably knew the right buttons to press when it came to winding up his big cousin!

Gave me a much needed chuckle :lol

The only issue with your list is many are dead. If you check the past winners, of those who have passed on, all were alive the year that they were chosen. But, you are correct, you would think guys like McCartney would be chosen ahead of Mike.

Get some Canadians in there. Michael Buble, K.D. Lang, Gordon Lightfoot, Neil Young.

In all fairness to Mike, I think he and Bruce have done some work to raise money for elementary schools. 

Isn't it incredible though that Mike Love has said some stupid things but has also shown to be a nice guy and a devoted family man but in the end will be remembered as that one asshole from the Beach Boys.  Meanwhile, Woody Allen whose daughter has confirmed sexually abused her when she was seven years old will be remembered as a legend?  It's pretty ridiculous (and I say this as a Woody Allen fan as well).

Fairly amazing how silent the Hollywood crowd is about Woody Allen, but they're generally quick to condemn others.

As I recall, it was Mike's own poorly crafted and tersely worded press release prior to the end of the tour that started all of the media second guessing. That was followed by some sort of attempt at a Facebook campaign by Al, THEN Brian's "I felt like I was fired" statement. As I said, a little PR finesse would go a long way.

When the original allegation was made social services and the police thoroughly investigated the sexual molestatation charge and found no evidence of any wrongdoing.  This was in the midst of bitter divorce proceedings with Mia after woody hooked up with his stepdaughter.  Was this part of Mia's revenge to encourage her daughter to say these things, to the point where she believed it?  No one knows but there's still a presumption of innocence particularly after an investigation essentially cleared Woody.  So Hollywood stars should not work with woody or give him awards for work he has done because of allegations 15 years ago that he was cleared of?  That's political correctness gone mad IMO. 

Is that the one Brian requested Mike release?

Sure. Don't remember hearing that he dictated the poorly worded release that made it SOUND like Mike was pulling the plug.  PR, people! PR!

This whole ELLA award thing - I'm wondering if the Mike bashers know/remember/care that it's first and foremost a charity event ?

Yup, back in 1968, when TM and Maharishi were abandoned by The Beatles and became hopelessly passe, Mike had the foresight to realise that in twenty, thirty, forty years or so it would become hip again and boost his career. Damn, that dude is just soooooooooooo calculating.  ;D

"When the original allegation was made social services and the police thoroughly investigated the sexual molestatation charge and found no evidence of any wrongdoing.  This was in the midst of bitter divorce proceedings with Mia after woody hooked up with his stepdaughter.  Was this part of Mia's revenge to encourage her daughter to say these things, to the point where she believed it?  No one knows but there's still a presumption of innocence particularly after an investigation essentially cleared Woody.  So Hollywood stars should not work with woody or give him awards for work he has done because of allegations 15 years ago that he was cleared of?  That's political correctness gone mad IMO."  

The District Attorney was going to file charges against Woody Allen, and said publicly that he felt that Mr. Allen was guilty.  The D.A. would be privy to all the investigative materials, including the work of the police.  Due to the young age of the victim and the damage a trial might cause her, the case was not prosecuted.  

Is it possible the molestation allegation was made up as part of the revenge that Mia Farrow sought for Woody dating Soon Yi, maybe.  The whole thing is messy and uncomfortable.  I just find it odd that Hollywood celebrities are quick to condemn many on flimsier evidence but treat Woody with reverence.  Meryl Streep, within the last month, read from a letter from 1938 regarding Walt Disney at an awards ceremony trashing the late Studio head, but is silent as to Woody Allen.

I don't think it's calculating at all. I just think it may have brought Mike to the attention of people in LA more than his work raising funds for Lake Tahoe schools, for instance. The fact he's been in TM for decades and never wavered counts in his favor.  There were many years when being a TM follower would make a person a laughingstock. Now, it's considered a good thing by not only show biz, but schools and the US military.

Try comparing Mike to Hitler next time, that's accepted. By some. :(

BTW, I didn't take the Savile comment as a comparison between Mike and a paedophile, but as an example for a person who is totally unlike his public image, as it was meant.

I say comparing Mike (or Myke or Myhk if you'd like) to a paedophile is hilarious  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

But if anyone does seriously compare Mike to a paedophile, then that's just wrong.

But as a joke...  :lol :lol :lol

You're a strange guy...

Clearly you misunderstood. Mike may have done really stupid things, and crap that makes a lot of people hate him, I don't think he deserves to be compared to a Paedophile. To seriously do that is just wrong, and taking things way too far.
As a joke, it is pretty hilarious. But to do it seriously is going too far.

Nobody is comparing Mike to a paedophile in that context at all.

I meant hypothetically...

He's 14 or 15 years old IIRC.

If you couldn't tell by his posts  :P

Messy situation, to put it mildly.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/02/01/mia-farrow-uses-close-pal-journalist-in-woody-allen-war-writer-of-latest-piece-is-close-friend

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast.html

Some of what Weide says - not least about the timing of events - does make me wonder.

I'm just only now catching up to this story....

The above sounds like a private message Jacquenlyne intended to send instead of posting it publicly on the FB page.  Has that been determined already?

It continued on the FB page…

I'd say it looks somewhat like that. Even so, given that it's not been taken down, I'd say she stands by it.

Easy enough to do - back on the old PSML, I accidentally posted a private response to the list that was... um, shall we say, somewhat intemperate in both tone and language ?

Completely out of character – I'd've denied all knowledge and claimed my account was hacked…  ;D

Care to give some examples?

I doubt Brian even made that comment, let alone was trying to be a victim  :lol

If true, if accurate...use this as an example of how social media, fansites, message boards, YouTube comments, Twitter...the whole shebang, basically...is used and manipulated as a marketing and promotions tool by various interests.

It's on everything from comments posted to news stories on official news media sites, to YouTube comments, to comments such as a recent one related to NAMM and who played bass on sessions. Politicians have their staff, supporters, and assorted lackeys post things all the time under the guise of a regular citizen-civilian posting their comments. Some entities will hire marketing teams to do related activities across social media, with some hints that even generating a large number of "likes" or "followers" as a status symbol for up and coming artists and whatnot can be bought and sold as a service from various vendors who can work the systems and write whatever codes are necessary to generate such things without being outed as a 'bot or spam.

And certain entities can manufacture and create the all-important "Viral Video", so that a video of a shitty band gets 1,000,000 hits while other bands never crack 1,000. Same with any product advertising, the new ad agency buzzword phrase is "viral video".

Ask one of the ad salesmen and hustlers of the modern age how often they make it a point to use the term "viral video" when pitching a multimedia campaign to a prospective client.

It's guerrilla marketing for the social media age, but it's not really guerrilla since it's out in the open and easy to spot. And most of it looks forced and phony.

But this just confirms that music, politics, TV, corporate branding and advertising...it's not as surface-level as it seems when someone simply posts a comment on the right website which is more of a planned and directed soundbite message instead of the random comment from some chump that it's pretending to be.

Food for thought, next time something similar comes up.  :)

I'll be damned if the reason for the C50 explotion does not involve Jaquelyne-designed shirts. And I'm serious.

Btw: 10 years after the facts, maybe it's time to unveil the real reason for Andy Paley's departure from Brian's life. Anyone?

I understand she chose the wardrobe for the C50, and a fine job she made of it IMO.