The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-bronson/top-ten-hits-from-the-sixties_b_4590552.html

And from Harold Bronson, no less.

They've used the AFM sheet posted on the Wrecking Crew movie site... the one that Stebbins and I told Tedesco OVER TWO YEARS AGO was not for the Beach Boys session.

I remember there also being a discussion on Facebook on the Wrecking Crew site.
What the responsible people don't realize is that the sheets they used are probably from cover versions of Beach Boys songs that members of the crew played on. It's frustrating. The Beach Boys deserve much more credit for playing on their records. I believe up until Today! they played the majority of instruments

Your belief is true. When the MIC online sessionography arrives...which it will, soon...it will hopefully become the new standard of reference for such things, and the facts will be corrected in the general public consicousness for generations to come.

The problem is something like this piece on Huffington Post will be read by thousands more people than any sessionography. And as far as something being standard...when you have AGD, myself and even Mark Linett all telling Denny Tedesco he was perpetuating a myth with bad info regarding I Get Around and he ignored it...well...standards don't apply i guess.

I would encourage everyone who reads this and gets pissed off to post in the comments section on Huffington Post, and someone track down Harold Bronson and tell him he's an idiot. The musicians on the Beach Boys hit version of I Get Around are...Brian Wilson - keyboards, Dennis Wilson - drums, Carl Wilson - guitar, Al Jardine - bass, Ray Pohlman - bass, Hal Blaine - extra percussion, Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori - saxes. It's really a shame that someone who should know, like Harold Bronson is perpetuating a myth with incorrect information.

Tried to log in there and put in my two cents. After I restrained myself from calling Bronson an idiot, I typed out a nice factual blurb but had a helluva time trying to log in so I gave up. If this guy has done this before, he should be repremanded. Huffington Post is a Conservative website, idinit? Yeah. So publishing one more lie ain't gonna hurt 'em.

For Harold Bronson: "The players on "I Get Around" were Beach Boys Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Carl Wilson, Al Jardine, and 4 members of the Wrecking Crew. And please do your homework before you say that "session men covered for them on most of their hits". You'll be surprised how many hits the Beach Boys themselves played on in the 60's".

Harold relied to Andrew's correction, saying thanks for the correction...but he added that the Wrecking Crew played on "most" of the Beach Boys '60's hits. I replied to that with this...

That's a bit of a myth Harold. Of the Beach Boys 27 top 40 hits in the '60's, they were the primary musicians on at least 15 of them including Surfin USA, Surfer Girl, Little Deuce Coupe, In My Room, Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, When I Grow Up To Be A Man, Dance Dance Dance, I Can Hear Music and Do It Again. The Wrecking Crew did provide instruments on many their hits too... California Girls, Sloop John B, Wouldn't It Be Nice, and Good Vibrations are great examples...but the majority of Beach Boys hits are played and sung by the Beach Boys.

fdp, this is a polite request to please learn to use the "quote" function properly, adding your comments at the end of the quoted posts and not somewhere in the middle, as you have here and previously. Simply scroll down all the way to the very bottom of the quotes until there is nothing after the final [/quote], then start typing.

Thanking you in advance.

For the record, the AFM sheet in question documents a session for The Catalinas Fun Fun Fun album, produced by Terry Melcher and released 9/64. Amusingly, Bruce contributes piano and backing vocals.

So I'm wondering...he admits he's wrong in his article...but the article remains active and unedited?

Even worse.  Ignorance is bliss but publishing known lies?

Does he own Rhino Records or just work for them?

HuffPo doesn't pay their writers. They also don't fact check or edit their writers. It's mostly a click farm for ads and considered a journalistic equivalent of Wikipedia, or a step below that.

Well the article isn't a complete waste of time as there is a link on that page for a story on a man who has no butt-crack. Pictures too.

He co-founded Rhino. I met him a time or two in the 80s. Very nice guy. However, evidently a poor researcher. There's so much wrong with the AFM he saw and quoted that Stevie Wonder could see the problems.

1 - session was dated nine days after the single was released.

2 - the the six titles listed, five of them have never been recorded by, or even associated with, the band.

3 - there's no flute on "IGA".

4 - employer is listed as TM Music Inc. when it should be Capitol Records.

5 - the studio was RCA, which Brian hardly ever used

6 - the time of the track as listed is 1.58 whereas the Beach Boys release is 2.14.

You would think a guy whose former company spent tons of capital presenting the Monkees as legitimate would not perpetuate the BB never played on their records myth.

HuffPo is many things, right wing is not one of them.

How can an article like this stay unaltered in the face of evidence to the contrary? A bit mindblowing, don't you think?

I can’t imagine another major band from the 60s having a myth perpetuated like the overblown Wrecking Crew credits, in the face of opposing evidence. I can’t imagine a scenario like this happening with The Stones or The Beatles, for example. Only in BB land.

Just posted this on the Crew Facebook page: let's see how long it stays up.  ;D

"This article in the HuffPost - below - could have been less annoying had not Harold Bronson (who I met back in the 80s, and who is a very nice guy) relied on information taken from the wreckingcrew.tv site for "I Get Around". The AFM sheet he obviously saw and used is not for a BB session (as I, and Jon Stebbins) told Tommy Tedesco some two years ago when we first saw it. The glaring problems are:

1 - the session was dated nine days after the Beach Boys single was released.
2 - of the six titles listed, five of them have never been recorded by, or even associated with, the band.
3 - there's no flute on "IGA".
4 - the employer is listed as TM Music Inc. when it should be Capitol Records.
5 - the studio was RCA, which Brian hardly ever used
6 - the time of the track as listed is 1.58 whereas the Beach Boys release is 2.14.

In fact this AFM contract is for a Terry Melcher-produced session for the 1964 Catalinas album FUN FUN FUN... and the other two AFM contracts in that link similarly claiming to be for Beach Boys sessions are in fact for sessions for HOT ROD HIGH, a 1964 album by The Knights produced by the prolific Gary Usher, and The Hollyridge Strings BEACH BOYS SONGBOOK, an entirely instrumental album also released in 1964.

My point is this: the Crew were long denied their rightful recognition (and to some extent still are), but making basic and easily checkable errors like this isn't going to help the cause much (not to mention getting the geeks like me falling out of the trees).

And breathe..."

Deleted.

Deleted.

The perception was (and probably still is) that The Monkees used studio cats exclusively on their stuff..

By the way, I don't think the Mama's and Papa's ever said that they played on their records, did they?  Wasn't John Phillips the only one who could play an instrument?

I think your two posts above this one better represent your thoughts: 

It’s one thing for there to be a general incorrect “perception” based on years of misinformation, like with The Monkees, but for a 2014 newly-written article to specifically state incorrect facts (and not retract them) in the face of contrary evidence, is just baffling.  I think it comes down to stuff like this being allowed to happen since the BBs are simply not respected/appreciated as they should be.

Actually, the first post I deleted said "Bgas is a jerk who doesn't know what he's talking about". The second one said, "Bgas is an asshole". Then I decided I might be banned for such accusations (even though they're true) and decided to delete them.

Be honest. We're lucky. If it weren't for guys like Jon and Ian and their research, we wouldn't know the real truth either. Some of these article writers don't know the facts and don't have access to AFM sheets nor do they have 'inside' sources for information. Some guess at details. Some refer to the Badman book or Brian's book and get it wrong. We're hardcores and we read the message boards and the reputable publications for the facts. Some of these article writers don't take the time with their research or they plagerize other sources. According to Hal Blaine and Carol Kaye, there was a historian named Russ Wapenski who was suppose to come up with the definitive publication on these studio session matters, but I don't think it ever came to fruition. At least I've never seen it.

Several years back, when CK was bellowing about how her friend Russ Wapensky was writing a book that would prove her right and shut me up into the bargain, I contacted his publishers - Greenwood Press* - and asked how the book was progressing, to be told that the contract had been cancelled in 2003. So, not happening. Just for good measure I emailed Wapensky too. Not a peep.

[* oddly, also the publisher that I signed a contract with to collaborate with one Brad Elliott on a BB project in 2000. It fell through because, basically (and this isn't in any way libellous but the simple truth) he went on the run from the investors of the First Wave project who, not unreasonably, wanted their money back, and was uncontactable. Serendipitously, the work I'd done formed the foundation of the 10452 website, but there was an amusing postscript a year or so later when Greenwood requested I return the advance, please: amusing because I'd never received any such advance ($1000, I believe). They also asked if I knew of the whereabouts of Mr. Elliott, as they were equally anxious to have his advance returned. Couldn't help them in that.]

Wow, BE was really slick, getting not only his advance, but, also somehow, yours. I sometimes wonder how deep a hole he really dug for himself, and if he'll ever have enough $$ to repay everyone he "borrowed" from.  maybe he's working on that now.  

Mikie: Sticks and stones! Sticks and stones

Today was a REALLY good news day for me; hope to have the evidence in a few more...

It would be really nice if Brad's been working behind the scenes on a Beach Boys Sessions book all this time.  But I kinda doubt it.....

And the answer is, about 65 minutes.  ;D

You keep thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at

Wow...so now the Tedesco Wrecking Crew Film facebook page has deleted Andrew's post which only gave very factual info to correct something they have been promoting which is 100% wrong. Can this WC entity be so fragile as to not want the RIGHT information on the site that promotes the film, and the facebook page that promotes both? We tried teling them this two years ago, Mark Linett tried telling them this as well many months ago...yet they persist in insisting on denial.

Also Thanks to Mark K. and Rob for posting in the Huffington article comments section. Wondering if Harold will respond to your concerns? I doubt it.

actually, this really sux that this delicate information is still being 'wiped over' onto future history pages....

surely............. SURELY!!!

with the evidence given, the guy or the family, could say, Yes! we've made a critical error here..... let's change it and make a wrong right....

and say 'Thankyou' to the guys that 'showed him the light'......

makes me NOT want to watch his so called 'wrecking crew' doco..... how many more 'inaccuracies' may be in it.....


RickB

Carol Kaye doesn't moderate their Facebook page by any chance?  ;)

The thing that really burns me - and I suspect Jon too as he shares my regard for historical accuracy - is that as soon as we saw the AFM sheets in question some two years ago, we told Denny Tedesco they were wrong, and he thanked us and said he'd fix it in a few days.

That's the funny thing - she totally hates the movie and Tedesco, and will run it and him down at every possible opportunity, saying she was misled, misquoted and so on. Probably even more so now that the Crew movie made its Kickstarter target (and then some: $313,157 against a goal of $250,000) while a documentary of her only raised $2465 of the $125,000 required.

Does that mean all of the CK donaters will get their $$ back? or will that go towards BE's debts...( cuz they both have two letters)

The Wrecking Crew in general love to crow about how they were the ones responsible for so many hits in the '60s, but most of them had complete contempt for rock music. They had little respect for either the bands, writers, or audience of the music. That may be the reason they're not interested in accuracy.

So it makes you wonder about the legitimacy and accuracy and general quality of this upcoming Wrecking Crew movie. Knowing that facts and corrections that are presented to them by authors and historians who have done their homework and then the historical data is being rejected? You know, many of the primary sources are either deceased or are relying on their 40-50 year old memories for accuracy. And as we all know (don't we?) the AFM sheets can't even be relied upon 100% for accuracy. Maybe Denny Tedesco is concerned more about the drama and getting the movie out there than having to correct anything. I mean, now is the time to do it before its release!

So Carol doesn't get along with Denny Tedesco? She must have gotten along with his Dad. Wonder what Tommy and Carol thought of one another.

Guys -

So Mr. Bronson gets the facts wrong...why are we getting so highly offended over this?  Call me crazy but I do not believe the Earth will spin off its axis over a factually incorrect article about the Beach Boys. 

You're CRAZY

I don't think an article in HuffPo is worth being too worked up about. The LA or NY Times, yes, or some other legit news outlet. I don't think anyone reads much about entertainment in HuffPo. It tends to get most page hits for "breaking news" (as they see fit to cover it) and low brow tabloid type stories. It's like a cross between the Drudge Report and TMZ.com.

Yeah, but it seems like 99% of the stuff on FB (which is unfortunately how a lot of people these days get their news) are people reposting fluff-laden, tabloid "list" articles like this.  Regardless of the source, you'd expect a guy firmly entrenched in the music biz to get his facts right, and at the very least redact the bad info when called out on it.

This is wrong, and if accuracy is what we're striving for at least do a few minutes of research before posting. I would call the statements complete crap but I'm a nice guy.


EDIT: Forget nice, the statement is complete crap.

I may be wrong but I think it needs to reach a goal before any real money is actually collected, and depending on the site (there are plenty of them, it seems), that goal for pledged money is high enough so every crank selling a machine that turns dollar bills into 100 dollar bills can't f*** people over. I don't think it actually exists as anything but a pledge until the goal is reached. And even then I don't quite understand how the pledge is actually collected as real cash money.

They need to bring back "Bowling For Dollars".  :-D

Is this the Wrecking Crew movie that everybody keeps talking about?  ::)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/The_Wrecking_Crew_FilmPoster.jpeg)

Can't speak for anyone else, but here's what boils my piss (thanks Billy) about this all:

1 - Harold is not only a man with a huge musical connection, but also something of a Monkees aficionado, yet he still toes the "didn't play" line...

2 - his info is spurious, yet derived from a site that anyone not in the know (i.e. someone who isn't... well... us) would imagine to be the ultimate authority.

3 - that said, he didn't even look at anything more than the musicians and song title...

4 - said site has known for over two years that three of their Beach Boys AFM contracts are nothing of the sort, yet hasn't corrected the error.

5 - can you imagine this happening to that Liverpool band ?

And... this is nothing whatsoever to do with the above, except in the abstract, but the thought's just occurred to me - are there, say, Katy Perry or Justin Beiber fans out there with our degree of obsession with detail ?

Nah... thought not...

Didn't they play trombone and ukelele on the Surfin Safari sessions?

Do copies of the AFM sheets from the real BB's sessions for those songs exist? If so, make them available or post copies and it's a done deal.

No need ! To anyone with an ounce of nous, the most basic of BB knowledge and a flicker of an investigative spirit, it's obvious that those sheets can't be for the BB versions. Lookit here:

On the AFM sheet dated July 10th 1964...

Almost all the musicians are playing the instruments of an orchestra - violin, cello, viola and the like.

The tracks listed are as follows:

Don't Worry, Baby
Fun, Fun, Fun
In My Room
Wendy
I Get Around
The Warmth Of The Sun
She Knows Me Too Well...

Which were released, respectively...

May 11th 1964
February 3rd 1964
September 16th 1963 (album)
July 13th (album)
May 11th 1964
March 2nd 1964 (album)
August 24th 1964 (granted, this is a complete poser as the song hadn't even been recorded by July 10th, much less released: WTF ?)

So, unless the BB had mastered the art of time travel and devoted that knowledge to recording songs after they'd been released...  ;D

...plus Glen Campbell on bass. Interestingly, Glen played the Dano bass on the basic track, and Ray doubled it at an overdub session eight days later.

That could be the answer. Brian insisted that he Wasn't Made For These Times. Perhaps he exists in ALL times.

I thought I read before that Campbell played on I Get Around. Thought he played guitar on it though.

FWIW, when the word came out that First Wave wasn't happening (literally the morning of the release date, btw), I asked for my money back, and two weeks later I got it...

Isn't it BRI's place to correct this type of info? They also have the most to gain and the most credibility if they're the ones complaining. Surely they must have at least some staff type who can use their e-mail address or letterhead to issue corrections.

As far as saying that members of the Wrecking Crew don't like rock and are therefore indifferent to caring about errors made in credits, I stand by that statement. It may not be true of all of them. Leon Russell, for example, can't be accused of looking down at rock. But reading past statements by Hal Blaine and Carol Kaye, in particular, seem to indicate they far preferred playing on a jazz or a Frank Sinatra session than on rock sessions. They thought the music was simplistic and it wasn't what they were raised on or trained for. Carol even called her surf music sessions, in her words, ditch-digger music. It was just something they did to pay the bills, even though Carol has praised Brian (but mostly for Pet Sounds, which is not surf or rock music).

No, it's still there. I just "liked" it

Same here!

Yes... my utter and complete bad. My post was moved to a much less conspicuous position, but it's still there.

Count yourself exceedingly fortunate: there are backers he still owes tens of thousands of dollars.

yes sir that was a scandal of high magnitude..  I had some small dealings with him that didn't turn out very well.. No money tho..

Has anyone ever heard these recordings?

Of course.

Nope. Dano bass.

The Knights... The Hollywood Strings... The  Catalinas.. Albums that NOBODY bought.. ! I was 13 years old at the time and I collected surf music.. I didn't know anybody that had those LP's .. 1.99 bin on 1st release... Woolworth's.. All that stuff Usher + Melcher did..  And you can include Hot Doggers + Super Stocks.. POOP.. Why would you buy those bands singin FFF when you could buy BB version.. !! Probably the best selling LP was The Hollywood Strings.... IMHO if you collected surf music you bought BB  J+D  Surfaris  Dick Dale  Challengers  Ventures   Lively Ones  .. And 1 hit wonders like.. Fantastic Baggys  Hondells  Chantays  Astronauts  Ronnie + Daytona's   Trashmen   Marketts   T-Bones  Bruce + Terry  Ripchords   etc etc  Now some of those 1 hit wonders HAD the wrecking Crew on them.. How the wrecking crew confused BB with budget releases to fill Sears + Woolworth's cut out bin is beyond me..  I may have been 13 years old but I knew better than to buy The Knights etc   I apologize if I sound harsh but im just as upset as everyone else about history being re written.. And if you watch TAMI or lost concert you see the BB were good enough to play on their OWN records.... Heck Hot Rod High was 1st recorded by The Surfaris..   Oh in defense of Dennis Wilson on another thread.. He was accused of riding on Brian"s coat tails..  NOPE.. All the producers doin BB sound alike records + covering their records verbatim and then they end up in cutout bin were riding Brian's coat tails.. Not Dennis.. If you don't believe me then go find the records.. The truth is there..  I will go hide now since ive upset everyone..

I think I hear a harpsichord on the track. Is there a harpsichord? Or maybe it's the Dano bass.  It's the instrument where it sounds like the strings or loose or something; kinda twangy. It's probably a harpsichord.

You know, the vocal sessions/takes are missing. Too bad - I would love to hear that. Anybody know which 'I Get Around' session Brian threw Murry up against the wall in the studio? I'd love to hear that too.

I mean, like, on this board.

Ya know some of those credits for other bands are suspect also I do believe..

Yes, I have. They're about as good as you'd imagine for six songs recorded in a three-hour session. The Usher tracks are like all his early 60s knockoffs - thin and weedy. I simply do not understand the adulation accorded him for the surf/drag stuff he wrote and produced in 1962-65.

A lot of folk, myself included, consider this is why Carol Kaye thinks she played on "Surfin' USA": I'm pretty sure she played on a version of the song... just not the Beach Boys recording.

Yep. Harpsichord was added at the overdub session, along with the second Dano bass and second lead guitar.

For them as is interested, the Hot Rod High album is on Spotify. Somehow, Usher manages to make the Crew sound far worse than The Beach Boys on the same tunes.  :o

It's a fallacy to assume that the quotes of a small handful stand for the thoughts of the larger group, though.  Carol didn't seem to like rock, true, and people like Barney Kessel and Bill Pitman did seem pretty indifferent.  Hal Blaine...it's would be hard to make a case that he didn't like pop. 

I think that for every jazz purist musician in the pool of "wrecking crew" types, there's at least one Glen Campbell, or Jerry Cole, or Billy Strange, or Larry Knechtel, or Leon Russell, whose solo work proves they don't much mind popular music at all.

Ok so as AGD stated above im gonna ad to this.. 1} It would be hard for Carol to Miss BW.. Chuck Britz.. And Murry Wilson in the studio.. Or think one of them is Gary Usher Or Terry Melcher.. :ninja  So im a little confused by Carol's statements.. Padding the old resume.. Maybe.. And lets see how many version's of Johnny B Goode do I own..??  Chuck Berry.. Carl Wilson.. Johnny Winter.. Jerry Garcia.. Johnny Rivers.. Keith Richards..  Dick Dale.. Im sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head. Anybody notice anything.? Same song + they all sound different.. Choice of sound style licks.. All different.. Even if you used the same rhythm  section for each guitar player in a controlled studio setting  each guitar player has a style so HOW do they get confused at all.. If you take this test and apply it to me + 4 of my local  guitar working buddies I would know which one was mine in a heart beat.. Hands down.. ;D   So I don't get it.. I do understand bass + drums would be harder to figure out.. But instruments that are involved in the melody + solo shouldn't be that hard to figure out.. Piano Guitar Sax.. Hendrix Trower Vaughn... BB King  Albert King  Freddie King see the difference.. so I am skeptical of their memories..

Better safe than sorry! We're not taking chances! :-D

Apart from Carol Kaye, Mr. Wilson's mention of the Hollywood Strings, reminded me of that genre including Hollyridge Stings who worked for Capitol and who sort of "translated" almost like a dictionary, guitar strings, in the rock context, to orchestral strings.  They did arrangements for The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Elvis, Simon and Garfunkle, etc. and they sort of were precursors for what Leonard Bernstein did with his "Inside Pop" in 1966/67.  It translated to the Great Generation what the Baby Boomer rock music was about.  And cleverly, it was often located in racks, near the check out line in the grocery store chains, where you'd find soap opera tabloids.  

There was a certain market, and you'd often hear older people (older to "us") remarking that "rock music" wasn't "that bad," even if they didn't like the electric guitar, or heavy percussion, which marked that style.  They'd hear something like Surfin' USA, or Fun, Fun Fun, or, I Wanna Hold Your Hand, done in an orchestral arrangement, and realize there was more in common, than in opposition, and it was all great music, albeit "expressed" differently.  

Those smart parents who wanted to understand (but not necessarily "relate to") this music, did buy that music, and not unlike the boomers learning to "text" and "Skype," to keep the lines of communication open, and narrow the Generation Gap.  They became less threatened by the music.  

And during those years where people had Hi-Fi's and "furniture" stereos, almost everyone had some Hollywood Stings or Hollyridge Strings type album or two.   ;)