The Smiley Smile Message Board

Does anyone here know the exact month that David Dalton's 1969 photo shoot at Brian's Bellagio studio took place? The photos I'm speaking of have been published in numerous places over the years, including Mojo awhile back and most recently (to my knowledge) the Winter 2010/2011 issue (Number 90) of ESQ. My thoughts are that it had to be prior to early October '69, because Carl was sporting his beard at Big Sur on Oct. 3, yet he's still beardless in these photos. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Craig, my impression from somewhere is it was from late Summer/Fall 1967. That's off the top of my head and [edit: NOT] trustworthy. Maybe I can find it. It might have come from an article published by Dalton

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong photos but doesn't Brian have a beard which he also had in one of the May '67 ILTSDD studio photos?

These?

http://www.gadflyonline.com/05-06-02/ftr-epiphany.html

Craig-I think you are creating some confusion because of the dates!!!! As you well know-Big Sur was 1970 not 1969.  Carl didn't have a beard in 1969, nor did he have one until the fall of 1970

I got the pix from David for inclusion in ESQ - I'll ask.

Cam, ol' buddy... you're thinking of the Zuma Beach shots, which were indeed July 1967.  :)

OK, sorry for the confusion...to UN-confuse, there are two groups of Dave Dalton BBs shots that I'm aware of...one from the "Smiley Smile" era and one from the "Sunflower" era. The "Sunflower" era are the ones I'm asking about...are they from '69, or '70? If '70, they have to be before early October '70 because when they played the Big Sur Folk Festival on Oct. 3, 1970, Carl had a magnficant beard, whe he does not have in the photos I'm asking about.

Of course, Steve Desper might remember...  ::)

I don't know if this helps at all, but you can see Carl is starting his beard at the Warner Brothers signing (the pic is in David Leaf's book).

Hmmm....what date would that be (anyone know?).

Is this the photo you mean?


(http://i.imgur.com/UWQKsIQ.jpg)

February 1970, I believe.

Yeah that's the one.

According to the Herores & Villains book, this picture was taken July 27, 1970.

(http://i.imgur.com/1kUdgZx.jpg?1)

Also this is from June 14, 1970 in Milwaukee.

(http://i.imgur.com/K5ppSzy.jpg)

<<According to the Herores & Villains book, this picture was taken July 27, 1970.>>

Hmm, seems kinda late for them to be signing to Warners...especially since the label had already released a couple of their singles by that time!

I wondered if I didn't have the wrong photos.

Top of my head, there were two separate signings (as there were to Capitol, btw). Brian's John Hancock wasn't on the first one.

as detailed in my book-the outdoor concert photos are from Milwaukee and were taken  june 14 1970

Sure, post is corrected now :D

I like Carl better without the beard. Or rather, the way he looks, as I didn't know the person and a beard wouldn't change his personality, and I should stop typing this now.  :o

From Mike's Facebook:

A photo from the backlot of Warner Bros in 1971. We took this photo while signed to Warner Bros for a few albums. This photo also appeared in the hit parader magazine…50 cents a copy back in the day...thanks Bruce Johnston for sharing this with me, brought back some memories.. ML

(http://i.imgur.com/cOcz7sp.jpg) (http://imgur.com/cOcz7sp)

Anybody knows the date of this one? And what albums they signed for? This is a different signing from the July 27, 1970.
I think it must be early 1971...

(Brain fart)

They were signed to Warners, not signing again.

The font for this and the leafy background almost makes it look like the BBs were guests on Gilligan's Island. There was in fact a Gilligan's Island episode where a Beatles-esque band came to the island, and The Beatles were mentioned several times in dialog within other episodes. Too bad they never made a Beach Boys reference! </thread topic tangent>

Andrew - any luck in terms of Mr. Dalton supplying dates for the '69 Bellagio studio shots?

Alas, no - he got back to me, but can't remember. Guess we'll have to try and match the images with AFM sheets.

Bummer...the one of Carl playing drums really bugs me...maybe you could ask him if he at least remembers what song that was?

The one for the cover of Hit Parader is definitely from '71. They look exactly the same as in the picture Steve Desper took of the group in Brian's backyard during the recording of the Surf's Up album. I have a poster of it in my room. It was included in publicity shots of the group. I think Steve even remembers what song they were recording when the picture was taken, more than likely the same month as the Hit Parader shot.

Who are the two guys standing in the first pictures? And of the two, which one is Mo Ostin?

The person (appearing in both 'signing' photos) with glasses and full beard is, according to the Gaines book, Nick Grillo...

I assume the other person is Mo Ostin.....?

Getting back to Dalton's "Sunflower"-era photos for a sec...one interesting thing about them is that Brian, Dennis, and Carl are all variously shown playing drums in the studio. Brian does not sport headphones in his shot, but both Dennis and Carl do in theirs...meaning the latter two were likely laying down drums on actual tracks, whereas Brian may have simply been demonstrating something on the drums. Another interesting shot is of Al, Dennis, Carl, and someone (Desper, probably?) on the roof of Brian's garage, which is filled with all kinds of percussion instruments and microphones. Desper wrote in his book that the drums for "Slip On Through" (played by Dennis Dragon) were recorded on the rooftop. In this shot, Dennis is seen playing a set of timbales with soft mallets (headphone-less, although there is a separate shot from the same session which is a closeup of Dennis playing the timbales with headphones on...and a third such shot of Denny playing the timbales at the same session - this time with a cigarette in his mouth, as well as headphones on his head - appears on page 52 of Adam Webb's book "Dumb Angel - The Life and Music of Dennis Wilson"...this one faces ANOTHER David Dalton in-studio shot of Dennis on page 53, apparently sitting at the keyboards this time, but clearly from a different session, due to the presence of a moustache on the otherwise clean-shaven DW).

Upon close examination of the "rooftop" photo featuring Al, Carl, Desper and Dennis, I see what appears to be a four-m onth calendar on the inside of the open door. Can't make out the months or year, though. The two visible months (the other two are blocked by Al) appear to have mostly full first weeks and completely full fifth weeks, and longer names. Maybe someone else can make them out?

I don't think those are full fifth weeks, as that wouldn't be possible:  The bottom one , with a full fifth week and at least 6 days showing in the first week ,would have 34 days. I think it's more likely that the top row is a letter for each day of the week. Then any additional days at the end of the month would be diagonally divided( or top/bottom) in the begiinning of the fourth line of numerals. 
That doesn't help on the identity issue and I know it's not what you were hoping for, but... 
Perhaps David Beard has a clearer version of the photo in his archives, which he can check and get back to us? 

where's the best place to find these photos?

I've got the original jpgs David sent me for my 2010 Sunflower article for ESQ. That's not a calendar. Whatever it is, it runs the full width of the door, which would mean a week with something like 12 days. Likely some kind of pegboard.

In the Winter 2010 edition of Endless Summer Quarterly.
http://esquarterly.com/merchandise.html#winter2010

Can you post a pic?

cool. anywhere else?

Ah. Evidently my word isn't good enough. So... no, I won't.

Oh man, don't be getting all defensive. your word is like Beach Boys Gold, but WE LIKE PICTURES.
If I had the pic, I'd post it...

That's why I was thinking it might be a four-month calendar...

The resolution isn't quite good enough, but I can't see the usual calendar format, plus what should be the dates are all the same size in all rows, and if that's a calendar... they shouldn't be. Actually, no numerals or letters at all. Also, pretty coincidental that a calendar fits exactly across the width of the door.  ;D

Looks like the pegboard you see in so many studio pics by Jasper. Headphones, for the hanging of.

It is possible that it is a calendar.

What appear to be pegs could arguably the dates/numbers on the calendar.

It is more logical that it is something related to recording than a calendar though.

Ask Stephen Desper if he knows.

Like I said, the purported "dates" are all the same size, and logically, 3 or 4 wouldn't (couldn't) be the same size as 28 or 29. I've enlarged it as much as I can before it gets too pixellated, and those are not dates

Also, it's a strange calendar that's recessed into a door. I say pegboard.

well there ya go!  I just thought it was a framed calendar. Recessed makes alot of difference there.

OK, so pegboard it is. That's OK, since if it WAS a four-month calendar, it would have only narrowed the date range down to...four months. So, I'm back to trying other ways to solve the date riddle. Based on what Dalton himself said, these "Sunflower'-era photos were taken over a several-month period commencing no earlier than December 7, 1969:

"A year and a half later, after Altamont, I came back for another visit. After the gotterdammerung of the late sixties the idea of escaping back into Brian’s magic kingdom was very appealing. So I came back to L.A. and spent several months hanging out with the Beach Boys while they cut their album Sunflower. The times had changed, the cosmic finger had writ and having writ moved on. Brian and I now bonded over new varieties of peanut butter. I spent a lot of time with him that winter, but nothing afterwards ever approached my goofy epiphany at Zuma Beach."

Based on the length of Dennis' hair in the rooftop photos, I'm guessing summer 1970 (his hair length here matches that of his hair length in the shots from the June 14th Milwaukee gig). And the fact that Carl and Al are both present, in addition to Dennis, suggests that the rooftop shot may be from the "It's About Time" sessions, which were late June or early July. However, the guys are dressed too "warmly" for the kind of weather we normally associate with L.A. that time of year - BUT, there's always excpeiptions to the norm, weather-wise!...and Dalton's comments do imply more of a winter timeframe, however all we know for sure about that is that he started hanging there after Altamont and spent a lot of time with Brian in the winter months...perhaps the "several months" he refers to stretched into the June/July timeframe, by which time perhaps Brian was less accessible to Dalton, and so perhaps he hung with the other guys more. I've tried to find an L.A. weather report for the last week of June and first week of July via Google, but can't find anything that works. If someone with more patience cares to give it a go, please do!

It appears the highest temperature for July 1, 1970 was about 74 and the low was about 62.

Here's a few sites to find more dates:
farmersalmanac.com (http://farmersalmanac.com)
weather.org (http://weather.org)

WELL.. Just an observation.. If it was a HIGH of 74 degrees  7-1-70 in southern California that would be UNUSUAL.. July + August are our hottest months and they are on a regular basis.. Much of the time in the 90's + 100's.. It doesn't cool of till Halloween...

OK, slightly OT...

Anyone know if there is a picture of Jon Parks (Dennis' friend and possibly one time road manager) anywhere?

"No calls from Korthoff, Parks or Grillo..."