The Smiley Smile Message Board

No denying that Landy was a scumbag, but it is a (proven?) fact that he did (with Alexandra Morgan) actually write/co-write some (even many) songs with Brian, right?  Songs from BB88, BB85, Still Cruisin', etc.  Knowing Landy's track record, I'm sure there were embellishments of what work he said he did, but it's safe to assume that Landy/Morgan did in fact, unarguably, write song lyrics that, on later issues, their names were removed from, right?

I'm trying to understand how, legally speaking, a credit for someone who actually wrote a song could be retroactively removed. I'm just ignorant on how this could actually, feasibly happen. Was his credit "bought out" somehow? Not saying I want to see Landy's name on BB product, I'm just trying to see how it's possible to have happened, because, like it or not, it is rewriting history, and I'm not much of a fan of that. The BBs do have a history of doing that, though.

Was part of Brian's legal extraction from Landy's clutches some sort of agreement which made Landy recant his credits, in exchange for further legal action for other scumbag behavior not being further pursued?

Side note: I guess it's safe to say that if the BBs were able to have Landy's name removed from future pressings of songs that he actually co-wrote, that Charles Manson's name (had he gotten credited for "Never Learn Not to Love" in '69) would have doubtlessly been removed from future pressings of 20/20.

I wonder where Alexandra Morgan is now.  I would like to hear her take on the whole time with Brian.

Landy's credits on the 1988 album were removed as part of a financial settlement.

Thanks, AGD - I guess that answers that.

I assume Alexandra Morgan's credit would have fallen under the same guidelines as part of that settlement?

And speaking of Alexandra Morgan, as mikeddonn mentioned: has Alexandra Morgan ever said a peep about her time with Brian/Landy? Has anyone ever tried to interview her? Or was she put under a gag-order type of clause about that time period? One has to wonder if she was/is someone who was just as manipulated/controlled by Landy as Brian was.

Songwriting credits are a legal matter, who gets the credit corresponds to who gets royalties.  Removing Landy's name is less rewriting history and probably more making sure he no longer got a dime off Brian's work.

Makes sense, but it still seems like an attempt by BW's people to rewrite history a bit. And I can certainly understand that, considering the circumstances.

Not that I would want Landy (were he still alive) to get a dime off Brian's work, but at the same time, like it or not, the song lyrics Landy wrote are in fact his own work (or at least partially his own collaborative work).

I think it is rewriting history, just as it would be if any of Brian's other collaborators' names were removed. I also think the "financial settlement" was not so much to keep Landy from continuing to make money off of Brian's work (how much was he really getting?), but for Brian to distance himself from Landy's collaborations - in the history books.

I've interviewed Alexandra Morgan at length. Her story is a fascinating angle in truly bizarre situation.
She has a clarity about those years that not many seem to have.
I can honestly say that if given the chance to do it all again she would jump at the chance to have never had Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys in her and her husband's lives.

Let me add, though, that despite how everything ended, she both took the work she did with Brian very seriously and looks back on it with pride.

And while we're on the subject of "removing" credits (or proposed otherwise in this post's case) was Dennis ever to get a credit for City Blues? I don't have a clue how it was written, I just know it was recorded at a session that Brian and Dennis, and perhaps one other person was at, thus, you'd think he helped write it (along with night Bloomin Jasmine?) and yet, there's no Dennis Wilson credit on the GIOMH album on City Blues, nor is there a credit on Rio Grande or the 2000 reissue of BW88 which saw an unreleased Night Bloomin Jasmine get released.

That's fascinating, Howie. When was the interview conducted, and is it published/excerpted anywhere?

I'm guessing that there are many in the Brian Wilson/BB's camp who would say exactly the same thing about her and Landy.

I would love to read this interview.  There is a quote from her in his obit:

"His one regret was that he didn't get out sooner," says Landy's wife, Alexandra Morgan. "If anything, he lost sight of what was best for Eugene in his desire to help Brian."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/eugene-landy-472307.html

I would like to think she was trying to be sincere when she said the quote, but it always seemed odd to me, since of course Eugene also lost sight of what what was best for Brian in his desire to help Brian.

That quote is extremely disingenuous. Landy could have "walked away" from Brian at any time he wanted between 1982 and 1991... but as that would have been walking away from the gravy train, of course he didn't. Even after he was legally separated from Brian, he tried to maintain contact. As for doing what was best for Brian - ask Peter to explain once more what the medication Landy was administering was doing to him. Brian is, largely, how he is today because of Landy's "concern" for him. This is not simply my opinion, but documented fact.

And of course, she's hardly a disinterested party.

I agree, I didn't put the quote there because I agreed with it, but to show part of her thinking.  I would love to read a full interview with her on this subject, not because I would think it is necessarily truth, but to hear the opposite perspective.

Well she should blame her husband, since he is 100% to blame. This line looks kind of insulting, like Brian & his family caused most of the trouble for her and Landy, when Landy was the one with the agenda. Maybe she should have walked away or talked some sense into Landy first? I doubt this quote is true. Maybe she feels like that now but probably not then. I'm sure she had the same agenda as Landy did.

The thing is, it may be her "truth", or the truth that she and Landy actually, really convinced themselves of. In reflecting on her entire time with Brian, it's possible that she may feel that Landy and herself were actually acting in Brian's best interest. It's not a concept that makes much sense to us (knowing what we know), but it may come from a sincere (albeit warped) place.

To be blunt: why would anyone care whether it's "their truth" ?  It's just a bunch of crap

It would be very interesting to see an interview with Landy's son, or even better, Kevin Leslie. I don't think that'll happen though.

I agree that if someone makes their own truth, when the facts show otherwise, that it's ridiculous. But it's still interesting to me, since people like her were actually there and witnessed a lot of things that nobody else did, and can still offer a perspective - even if it's not something we agree with, or if we find truth-bending difficult to stomach. I'd be very curious to read the interviews that she gave, even if the quote from the Landy obit rubbed me very much the wrong way. The human mind can allow people to re-write their own history, to absolve themselves of responsibility/blame, etc. Hell, it's interesting (albeit sick) to think of the fact that Phil Spector and O.J. Simpson may have actually convinced themselves in their heads that they didn't commit murder.

I'd been under the impression that Landy's name was removed from the song credits because there was a legally murky issue over whether a doctor can financially benefit from a business relationship with their patient, especially when it's a patient with mental health issues.

I thought i'd read that somewhere. Anyone else?

Ethics? Conflict of interest? Wow! Once he "crossed the line" from "medical provider" to "business partner" the relationship was predatory and highly unethical. Ya, his "credits" were the least he should have lost. Perhaps, he could have been "disgorged" of any profits he received as a result of this "partnership" and cutting him off from his family, is always a signal of an abuser.  And, a spouse is hardly an impartial witness.  

The tragedy is that there wasn't better care available back then.  And he wasn't a medical doctor, but could prescribe medication.  But, it might be the standard of medical care there.  

Disingenuous, yes, Andrew, and that is an understatement.  You're kind.  Too kind. He was in a position of great power, and abused it.

There is grey in this situation. Even Don Was, a reliable pro BW voice, said that he saw some evidence that Brian was using Gene as much as Gene was using Brian -- at least toward the end of the relationship. And given how Brian has consistently used authority figures in his life to manipulate others, this doesn't seem difficult to believe.

I mentioned this through posts a few times but I hit a dead end each time...

Years ago there was a thread on this message board about Landy's treatment of Brian. Some of the medications that were (supposedly?) administered to Brian were discussed. Somebody who appeared to be knowledgeable and/or employed in the medical field posted that the medication, while powerful and even unethical, would have had a serious effect on Brian at the time it was administered, but would not have caused permanent or long term damage to Brian.

Now, this person who posted might've been a quack and totally WRONG. But, as I remember, their post was convincing. I tried to locate the thread and the post, but to no avail.

I am absolutely not siding with Eugene Landy in any way, shape, or form. And, I am NOT saying that the medication administered by Landy did not damage Brian permanently. I am encouraging more discussion on the medication issue. Does anybody - Peter? - know specifically what medication Brian took and the side effects from that medication? There isn't a lot of information published about the medication. As has been mentioned, Landy could have caused more damage to Brian than anything or anyone else ever did. I'd like to find out more about it.

He's not the same guy he was before Landy got ahold of him and it's physical as well as mental. He was more with-it when he was doing street drugs to excess. His speech is now slurred to a degree. He and his people are constantly denying he ever had a stroke, but something damaged part of his brain.

In the rolling stone interview late 80's with BW on cover  in swimming trunks sitting// reclining on a piano the drugs he was taking were listed in the article and im pretty darn sure of  that..

Yeah, I don't know what all is wrong with Brian but he is seriously messed up and sometimes it shows.

Disagree strongly, here. When there is a medical provider-patient relationship, there is no grey. It is clear and there are boundaries. It's professional malpractice. 

The weight of responsibility in patient/doctor ethics rests with the professional. It doesn't matter if Brian was playing his own games. As a matter of fact, it's expected when dealing with people with substance abuse, that there will be some level of attempted manipulation. The choice not to maintain an ethical relationship with professional boundaries was Landy's alone.

Obviously Brian changed a lot during and after the Landy period, but why did he seem so much more lucid from 1995-1998 than he does now or from the past 10 years? Is it just age?

Brian was a lot more "with it" during the "Stars & Stripes" doc and any interview related to "Imagination" than he is now.

When was the last time we saw this kind of humor out of Brian? Or when he and Mike were discussing writing Fun Fun Fun in the same interview? (does that exist anywhere? Or the whole doc?)

http://youtu.be/LK6dQTS8VwM?t=1m3s

I loved the clip when Brian had Al hold his nose so he could imitate Mike singing "California Girls," to the delight of Carl.

I would LOVE to see the complete footage of that "session". Particularly God Only Knows, with Brian at the piano, and Al and Carl standing beside him. Carl kind of leans over the piano as he sings the song. I wonder if they did the full song?

This clip reminded me how much I prefer Matt Jsrdine's work on falsetto to Jeffrey Foskett....

It looks to me like they're both there. Jeff is sitting on Brian's right.
What I noticed is how much Matt Jardine seems to be having a good time.

I was going to post about this, but I guess you beat me to it.  ;D There is also a great interview clip of Brian from the Endless Harmony documentary that seems to be around this time period(1995-96?) where he's talking about In My Room, and he ends it with "Oh, I see what I was doing...I was writing about myself". Those occasional moments of insight don't seem to happen as often now.

The duty is with the professional; you are correct.  No matter whom is the client/patient.  And even with substance abuse, they are trained to expect some nonsense. Landy crossed the line.  And, maybe Landy's job was to get Brian back to working on music, to show progress, and a way to get some positive reinforcement in his recovery. 

But, as a "bystander" or observer, and not a "work partner." Get him behind the piano, and bring in a BB or two, or some familiar co-creator.   But, not doing a Landy "duet" to advance Landy's aspirations.  ;)

Well, for one thing, he was younger. Plus it's logical that they show good Brian moments in promotional videos. He's probably more stable in many ways today, and likely more inclined to give shitty answers or ignore the situation when he feels like it. 15+ years as a solo artist sort of entitle him to it.
Besides, it's hard to state Brian's state of mind by the tiny glimpses of him we get as fans. But if I had to name Brian's most lucid interview of recent vintage, that would be the one he gave Pete Fornatele after the release of BWPS

Foskett is nowhere in that video, he was not involved in SAS

I think Prabhuji is mixing up the Campfire and SAS doc.

ah, yes, that would make sense.  Foskett was next to Brian in the Campfire scenes

Carl did look really uncomfortable in that clip...

I always noticed that too... but, I get the feeling that he felt uncomfortable because his reaction was being filmed.

I've never really seen it like that. Especially as the joke was more than 30 years old at the time. I've always seen their reactions as:

Al: 'Yeah Brian, keep ripping the piece out of that asshole Mike Love!'

Carl: 'Will you guys just stop pissing each other off for 5 minutes'