The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was reading about Sunflower a little (going through some archives on this board) and I realized how I personally always felt that at least 1 or 2 tracks could have been changed a little since I heard it years ago. At first I didn't even like it much except for Brian's songs. As it is, I love the album but it's one that I don't listen to all the way through. I usually come back to a few songs at a time. Anyway if you could change Sunflower a bit and put in some outtakes, what would you change? I wouldn't change it much except for 2 or 3 songs.

I think I would put "Lady" and/or "Sound Of Free" instead of "Got To Know The Woman". To me that is possibly Dennis's weakest song that he's ever done. It's not bad at all, just inferior than anything else he did at the time. "Tears In The Morning" is good, but I think the album could have used another Brian track, like "Good Time" instead. I actually even prefer the backing track to "Tears" a lot more.

Even though "H E L P" wouldn't fit on the album at all, I love it and it's a shame it wasn't released until 23 years later. Might have even been a decent single? It's catchy, kinda humorous and feel good.. There were other songs like that at the time like "Brand New Key" a year or so later.

I really like the album also, but there are a few songs I would definitely get rid of.

The first being "Got to Know the Woman." It's a fun song and enjoyable (and also, to me, very McCartney-esque), but it doesn't quite match up to the quality of the rest of the songs.
The second is "It's About Time." It's just... not good. I think it's really melodramatic and the words Carl sings over the bridge are terrible.
The third being "At My Window." It's just not my favorite. I can see why people would like it, but it's just doesn't really do anything for me.

One song that I think would have been great on Sunflower is "Soulful Old Man Sunshine." I think it fits the mood of the album and it's also just a great tune.
Other outtakes that might have fit well are "Good Time" and "Where is She?" (if it had been finished). Ooh, also the 1970 "Back Home."

Agreed on adding all those outtakes and your comment. I'm not a big fan of "It's About Time" either, never really was. However I love "At My Window". It's kinda cheesy but these are the type of quaint little songs I would have loved to hear more of. It is one of those tunes that reminds me of what some modern indie type bands are doing these days. I just feel a lot of what Dennis was doing on this album was very un-Beach Boys sounding (except Forever) and I'm not too keen on it. I didn't fully appreciate Slip On Through either, until I heard that vocal only version on MIC..

Got to Know the Woman should definitely have been omitted. Lady is a much better Dennis song.

I love 'Lady', but I think it'd sound better on Surf's Up than Sunflower. That album needs a  Dennis presence anyway. So with 'Lady', maybe 'Sound of Free' or '4th of July' and 'WIBNTLA' instead of 'Take Care of Your Feet', 'Don't Go Near the Water' and SDT, you'd have a pretty solid album.


Personally I love Sunflower as it is.

Maybe it's not his best written song, but his vocals on there was awesome  :serenade I wonder if it was about any specific girl  ::)

Love "At My Window".  It also has that lush, adult, "Sunflower" vibe and fits right in on the LP.  A song I'm not totally crazy about, "Tears in the Morning," is redeemed by the rich background vocals and it's soothing, if melancholy, fade.  Again -- the stuff of Sunflower.  Can admit the two cited Denny songs fall outside of that a bit for me, though I can enjoy them.  But it does feel like the album misses absolute greatness by a cut or two.

I think Sunflower's a lovely solid album as is... if anything I'd swap Add Some Music for Soulful Old Man Sunshine.

The answer with the Beach Boys, to me, is never removing tracks or changing, just more albums. ^___________^

Well, this is true until about '78 or so when I would definitely be making some different decisions.

Replace At My Window with Soulful Old Man Sunshine
Replace Our Sweet Love with Lady

Then Sunflower would be a better album.

P.S. It's About Time is the best song from the whole album, enough with the hate on that song

 :h5

As a Brian song, I never loved "Our Sweet Love" either. His songs usually have a magical quality to it (even on Sunflower itself) but that one is a song Brian would have written in his sleep. However I really like the instrumental with Brian bg vocals version or the other vocals only version. It seems like I enjoy the alternate mixes of most of these songs more than the actual thing for some reason.

The lyrics are

(http://rlv.zcache.com/extra_cheesy_pizza_slice_posters-r946a3320d74442409b685814a42af868_wad_8byvr_512.jpg?bg=0xffffff)

The lyrics are great! Cheesy it is not.

Even if it is:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1510878_632149990156087_37122708_n.jpg)

 :whatever I believe that's the song where it started out as a poem and then he, Carl, and Al made a few changes to it

Would you rather listen to this or "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" 

  I'd keep everything on, as is, while adding "Susie Cincinnati", "Cotton Fields", "Lady", and "Break Away" as bonus tracks.  Al Jardine got somewhat screwed on the finished tracklist, and I find "Cotton Fields" to be somehow right following "Cool Cool Water." "Break Away" isn't quite as sonically sophisticated as most of SUNFLOWER but it was recorded (March 69) when several SUNFLOWER tracks were getting started. "Lady" is more SUNFLOWER than SURF'S UP imo.

A bit of an odd song to mention (they were made a bunch of years apart from each other)
I love them both but I'll take It's About Time thx

I mentioned it because you said "It's About Time" was xtra cheesy  :-D, but this song is probably the cheesiest song they ever recorded.  :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBFsJk6PWu0

01. Slip On Through
02. This Whole World
03. Add Some Music
04. Deirdre
05. Where Is She?
06. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
07. It's About Time
08. Break Away
09. Tears In the Morning
10. All I Wanna Do
11. Forever
12. Our Sweet Love
13. At My Window

I love every song on Sunflower so I wouldn’t take anything off. But there are a lot of songs that didn’t make the album but should or at least could have. So if I could go back in time and change anything about that album, I’d just make it a double LP. The Beatles had one too, so why not?

So that would be the original Sunflower album, plus:

San Miguel
Break Away
Celebrate The News
Loop De Loop
Cotton Fields (single version)
Soulful Old Man Sunshine
When Girls Get Together
Games Two Can Play
Where Is She
Susie Sincinnati
Back Home
Lady
Sound Of Free
I Just Got My Pay

Best post in this thread so far.

There've been so many "alternative Sunflower" threads in recent years though that one can only hope the record company gets he hint and puts out a Deluxe two or three version packed with all these additional songs and alternative takes etc, and maybe rounds up all the vox-only and instrumentals that we've heard down the years.

Don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't shell out for that.

What I want more than anything is more stuff from All I Wanna Do.
Acapella, backing track, sessions, alternate vocals, etc.

Sunflower box needs to happen. Call it Sunflower Seeds and release it so we can all be happy.

I agree.

Even on the many "bootlegs" that I've been hearing so many great things about, this track is surprisingly absent.

‍

I think an expanded Sunflower reissue could even be profitable. A box set like 'The Pet Sounds Sessions' or 'The Smile Sessions' probably wouldn't be the way to go, though. It would probably be wiser to model it after the Pacific Ocean Blue reissue: a double CD in a nice digipack (also available as a 3 LP set on sunflower yellow vinyl, of course), stuffed to the max with bonus material. If there's a market for POB, I don't see why there shouldn't be one for Sunflower. The album could easily be marketed as the Beach Boys' forgotten "third masterpiece" after 'Pet Sounds' and 'Smile', as the album that has some of Dennis's greatest and some of Brian's most underrated songs.

I love Sunflower and wouldn't touch it, though am not totally enamoured of Got To Know The Woman and Deidre.

I would, however, love to see a Sunflower 'sessions' box (or double CD), with a cappella versions and tracks that were recorded/considered for this album in its various permutations.

Here's the back of a double I put together recently. Nearly all the songs were considered, in on form or another, for the Sunflower/Reverberation/Add Some Music album. I know some were recorded after the date the final version of Sunflower was submitted, but I wanted to tidy up a few loose ends - and that's why I included a few songs that predated those sessions.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2n8smmx.jpg)

(http://i42.tinypic.com/4jnpra.jpg)

I should point out that most of these tracks are legally available.

Marvellous…  I hope Universal Music is watching!

It's About Time is an AMAZING song! This is an album with gooey schmaltz like Tears In The Morning and people are talking about removing a kiss-ass track like IAT?? Madness!!

The only change I'd make to Sunflower is replace TITM with Lady - it fits perfectly between IAT and AIWD.

Got To Know The Woman is such a throwaway track compared to the rest of the album. The original mix of Good Time would have been a much better choice in it's place.

I stand corrected  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Agreed. Sunflower isn't even in my top 5 favorite BB albums, but it's the one album Mark and Alan definitely need to make a boxset for.

Until then, I'm happy with the Sunflower extras on MiC (Our Sweet Love w/ Strings is such a standout on that set).

Hey, enough with the hatin' on GOT TO KNOW THE WOMAN. As far as I'm concerned, the only truly effed-up thing about this board is the Stepford-like anathema for such a fun, vibrant soul sendup. Some weird "pack animal" animus has taken over you guys. For eff's sake, lighten up already!

Smilin' Ed's approach is a good one, and it's been discussed a number of times before--compile it all and give that extremely productive, anarchic, and wide-ranging creative time period its full due. But Ed, you can't leave off anything. GOT TO KNOW THE WOMAN has to be on that set, regardless of the furrowed brows of the haters. They can skip past it just the way some of us skip by Bruce's tracks, or AT MY WINDOW (sorry, Range Rover!) or ADD SOME MUSIC or OUR SWEET LOVE.

All for one, and each to his own, you misguided taste-makers!!!  :smokin

The line "Got to know the woman" is repeated at least 20 times in this song...not to mention the amount of "got to got to got to got to"s

The backing track sounds incredible, Dennis's lead is one of his strongest (which is why I'm in full support of a boxset full of vocal only/backing tracks). But these lyrics just drag on and on. I really wish I could like this song, but I can't!

I guess I don't really mind Got To Know The Woman but it just seems so much weaker than any of the other material. The production is really good, it's just a very underwritten song I guess. Then again it's harmless I suppose, I wouldn't care if it was ditched or not.

I really do think Tears In The Morning shouldn't have been on there. Maybe it should have been a single only release or something but another Brian track would have really helped. I think part of why I am not in love with Sunflower compared to other of their classic non-Pet Sounds/Smile albums of the 60s and 70s is the hodgepodge nature of this album similar to 20/20. So many songs from Dennis on here and then they stick a random Bruce song in there. I guess that's my fault though because I just think Bruce should have left off his compositions except 'Deidre', which at least was a collaboration. To have 2 from him at the same time and 3-4 from Dennis is a little much I think, especially considering how much material Brian has been doing at this period that got totally abandoned.

What if Denny had written "GTKTW" earlier would it fit better in one of their earlier records (since a lot of you don't seem to think it fits on this one)....imagine if he had sang this song in 1964/65 instead of "The Wanderer"  :-D

Not everyone hates it Don - it's one of my favourites on the whole album! Dennis having the time of his life, with a fantastic melody and brilliant and inventive backing vocals - what's not to like?? I'm really not looking forward to seeing it inevitably get booted off early in the Sunflower Survivor round...

 Always liked "Got to Know the Woman". Jerry Lee Lewis might have done something cool with that tune. The final SUNFLOWER lineup had a bit too much Bruce and not quite enough Al.

it's one of Denny's best vocals in my opinion  ;D

What's Seasons in the Sun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF4MXxhChyQ

Be warned, it's rather shite.

I like Sunflower the way it is but Tears In the Morning is pretty insufferable. Terrible, terrible lyrics.

Sunflower was destined to be flawed because of the different musical interests of all the band's songwriters. All of their early 70s albums are so schizophrenic. It's part of the charm, I guess.

Sunflower is one of just a few BBs albums that I will listen to from start to finish without skipping anything.  I realize that it does not contain 10s across the board, but it is all very listenable to me, and I would not change a thing.

Now, Surf's Up is a whole different story--peaks and valleys throughout.  THAT'S a potentially excellent album in dire need of a make over!  First thing I would do is pitch out that putrid opening track and work from there!

Agreed! Every track on Sunflower does it for me. There are lesser tracks, but nothing bad in the slightest. Surf's Up, however, is horrendously flawed, especially considering all the great material left out.

Give me "Don't Go Near The Water" over "Tears In The Morning" or "Got To Know The Woman" any day.

I never understood all the dislike for Tears. It's cheesy, but Bruce sings it with a lot of emotion. There are other BB songs just as overblown from around this time, but this is the one people seem to outright hate.

("4th of July," "It's About Time")

I think Sunflower would have befitted considerably from having "Midnight's Another Day" and "From There To Back Again" on it instead of, oh, say, "This Whole World" and "Forever".

Forever was the best part of the album for me  ;D.  That was the song that showed that Denny had arrived  :bow

Agreed. Tears In The Morning, and pretty much Bruce Johnston in general is underrated.


It's About Time is a great song, and in no way is it overblown


While it is one of Denny's best moments, I do prefer It's About Time and Slip On Through over Forever.

I love the acapella version of Slip On Through and my brother turns on It's About Time whenever he gets a chance  ;D.  There's a clip on YouTube of them in Paris singing it 1970 and there was only one guy standin up dancin  :lol :lol :lol but that songs the jam I don't care what any one says  :-D  :spin :rock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so7lsV6i4V4

I suspect AGD may have been joking...

Ok, how about this for a Sunflower album:

SIDE 1.

1. Slip On Through
2. This Whole World
3. Add Some Music To Your Day
4. Got To Know The Woman
5. San Miguel
6. I'm Going Your Way

SIDE 2.

1. The Lord's Prayer
2. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
3. Where Is She
4. Susie Cincinnati
5. Deirdre
6. It's About Time

SIDE 3.

1. Celebrate The News
2. Mona Kani
3. All I Wanna Do
4. Forever
5. Our Sweet Love
6. Tears In The Morning

SIDE 4.

1. Games Two Can Play
2. Carnival
3. Sound Of Free
4. Lady
5. Breakaway
6. At My Window
7. Cool Cool Water

 :)

That would have been wonderful for all of us, but it would have been an even bigger and more costly flop at the time.

I think Sunflower should have been released as a single album with only minor alterations (Got to Know The Woman and Tears In The Morning are the weak links for me) but some of the more offbeat Brian songs of the time should have been issued as a separate EP, with Good Time as the lead track.

I'm not really a fan of Soulful Old Man Sunshine, too sappy and cheery. Though it is kind of commercial.

Andrew, I really really like your new found humorous way of spoofing certain posters' habit of ignoring the timeline! :)

The only Sunflower track I didn't like at first was Tears In The Morning. I was shocked when I later learned it was recorded on the very day I was born... :o In the meantime I learned to bear and not skip it. :wink

Here's my take at a fantasy Sunflower double album:

1A
1. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
2. This Whole World
3. Add Some Music To Your Day
4. Deirdre
5. Got To Know The Woman
6. It's About Time

1B

1. Our Sweet Love
2. Slip On Through
3. Tears In The Morning
4. All I Wanna Do
5. Forever
6. At My Window

2A

1. Loop De Loop
2. Susie Cincinnati
3. San Miguel
4. H.E.L.P. Is On The Way
5. Take A Load Off Your Feet, Pete
6. Games Two Can Play
7. Carnival

2B

1. I Just Got My Pay
2. Good Time
3. Big Sur
4. Lady
5. When Girls Get Together
6. Lookin' At Tomorrow

Looking at this now, maybe that would work better as two single albums... For a double album "At My Window" and "Lookin' At Tomorrow" should switch places.

Is there a specific reason San Miguel was left off Sunflower? And Break Away for that matter?

Take A Load Off would have fit really well on Sunflower (it was recorded during that time wasn't it?).. It sounds so out of place by the time it was included on Surfs Up.

It is also a shame that they abandoned such great tunes like "Mona Kani", "San Miguel" and "Where Is She".. Excellent tunes that I like more than most of Sunflower honestly.

I will say that I wish Sunflower had more of either the delicate side (At My Window) or the silly, whimsical, catchy and singalong-able type songs (Add Some Music, Good Time etc) that Brian was coming up with. In that case I guess I don't really mind Got To Know The Woman since Dennis tried to do that. However the overblown type songs was a forced attempt at gaining acceptance from the currently circa 1970 very pretentious rock crowd and that's where the album gets a bit iffy with me. They did it more on Surfs Up than Sunflower, but it was emerging with songs like "It's About Time".

It's a shame the BBs had such trouble with record sales or getting a hit in the late 60s-early 70s. They could have just done their own thing and avoided a lot of the contrived attempts at acceptance. Thankfully it didn't get bad until after 1974, but that's another discussion.

I would assume "Break Away" was left off because it was released on a different label than Sunflower was.

That would make sense.

 Excellent lineup. My only exception would be the inclusion of Al's "Cotton Fields."

Uh, you forgot to throw in one of these:  ;D

Actually that would then match my personal Surfin' Safari tracklist.

Nope - wasn't joking.
































OK, yeah, I was...  :wave

Point being, to say Album X would have been better if "Tune Y" (which was recorded after said album was released) was included is as stupid as giving Columbus a hard time for not using GPS and not having a marine diesel in the Santa Maria.

Ah, yes - of course!! Ok then, much as I love Mona Kani I must say it didn't quite feel right including it (to me, it's more of a 'should've been on 20/20' track - so I'll replace MK with Cotton Fields. Also, add I Just Got My Pay after I'm Going Your Way on side 1, just to end the first side on more of a light-hearted note. And, bang!, there's your perfect Sunflower double album!

(For the record, I didn't include Big Sur because we'd get it on Holland anyway, and in a superior version (YES!!); I didn't include Loop De Loop and HELP because they're fun but basically throwaway B-side silliness; and I didn't include Feet because it was bad on Surf's Up and it'd be bad on Sunflower too...)  

SIDE 1.

1. Slip On Through
2. This Whole World
3. Add Some Music To Your Day
4. Got To Know The Woman
5. San Miguel
6. I'm Going Your Way
7. I Just Got My Pay

SIDE 2.

1. The Lord's Prayer
2. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
3. Where Is She
4. Susie Cincinnati
5. Deirdre
6. It's About Time

SIDE 3.

1. Celebrate The News
2. Cotton Fields
3. All I Wanna Do
4. Forever
5. Our Sweet Love
6. Tears In The Morning

SIDE 4.

1. Games Two Can Play
2. Carnival
3. Sound Of Free
4. Lady
5. Breakaway
6. At My Window
7. Cool Cool Water

The Beach Boys often had 1 or 2 weak tracks on an album, but I would not change a thing about Sunflower. A very pleasurable listening experience from beginning to end.

 One more change replace The Lords Prayer with Back home. Loop de Loop should be on the double album somewhere .

Back Home... yeah it's pretty good actually. But I don't agree re Loop de Loop. Sail Plane Song perhaps...

....and with that, history was changed.

Hey, why am I fading?  :o

Don't forget Big Sur.

Agree with you lots of time!