The Smiley Smile Message Board

Last semester I took Rock History and Culture in college and did a presentation on The Kinks. I never really appreciated them outside of the few singles I heard, but I really fell in love with their music while doing the project. They are perhaps my favorite 60s band, tied with the Beatles and Beach Boys. Ray is easily one of the best lyricists in rock history, and a great melody writer as well.

I started with the Ultimate Collection, which I already had prior to the beginning of my obsession. I bought Village Green Preservation Society some months ago during the research process, and was accidentally shipped Something Else as well. I recently bought Arthur.

I like Village Green by far the most out of the three I own. Arthur has more noticeable flaws: the guitar jam at the end of Australia, the song "Nothing To Say," and overall less inspired (but still very good) melodies. Something Else just sounds like a compilation, with too many Dave Davies songs diluting the program. "No Return," has got to be one of the loveliest melodies I've heard, though.

What else is worth buying? I want Face To Face, but it is rare in the US and very expensive on Amazon ($30 for one album, no thanks!). Albums in the RCA (?) era starting with Muswell Hillbillies seems to be easier to acquire in the US. Lola also seems relatively common and inexpensive on Amazon (I actually recently saw it in Barnes and Noble, but for $18).

In my opinion any Kinks album before Muswelll Hillbillies is worth getting. In other words essential. I have all of those albums on my computer

This might be a bit of a tangent, but I've only really found myself falling in love with Something Else and Village Green. I've also recently picked up Face to Face which is a good album as well. It's sort of a mix between their early rock material and their soon-to-be poppier work. It's definitely one you should pick up if you get the chance.

With Something Else and Village Green, they seemed to really lock down this special sound that appeals to me greatly. So, when I picked up Arthur, I had high hopes, but was kinda disappointed. Electric guitars started showing up and replacing that unique acoustic guitar sound that I like so much. Also, they seemed to move towards a more basic rock formula.

Anyway, back on topic....

I haven't picked them up personally, but The Kink Kronikles is a compilation with a bunch of unreleased stuff and The Great Lost Kinks Album (good luck finding one, though) also has some unreleased stuff from '66-'70. For studio stuff, it seems you can go up to 1971 and be safe to assume that you'll get a good album (haven't checked them all out myself, yet.)

Another cool thing to check out are the deluxe editions that they've been releasing recently. In fact, the 3-CD(!) deluxe version of Village Green has most of the Great Lost Kinks Album tracks. They also just released the deluxe version of Muswell Hillbillies in October.

What do you think about Everyone's In Show Biz? Is it worth getting if you already have Celluloid Heroes?

Yeah I've listened to that albums several times on Youtube. It's probably my second favorite after Village Green, but unfortunately es muy caro y raro en el EEUU.

I know you weren't asking me, but I'd say: absolutely yes!

Aside from Celluloid Heros: Here Comes Yet Another Day, Hot Potatos, Sitting In My Hotel, Supersonic Rocketship, Look A Little On The Sunnyside, You Don't Know My Name are all top flight Kinks with the rest at least passable..... The live album portion is a lot of fun and the stuff from Muswell Hllbillies, like Alcohol, Holiday,  surpass the album versions to my ears.

The greatest hits compilation? I suppose that depends on what you want.

The compilation seems a bit awkward because the albums it collects the songs from are concept albums, which don't really lend themselves to compilations. Also, a great deal of the songs come from Muswell Hillbillies, which, if you like country-tinged rock, is worth picking up itself.

So, if you're interested in full albums, I would recommend buying Everyone's in Show Biz to get the full 'concept.' Do some research if you're really curious, opinions seem ambivalent on the album. It does have an entire side of live music, though, so do with that what you will.

Yeah the live disc is a big reason I'm interested in it. It was really their last hurrah before the rock opera phase.


What about Lola? Some say it is a huge step down from Arthur,  but is it?

Hmmmm, I kinda see where they're coming from in as Lola feels a tad, oh, "classic rock" pub-band whereas Arthur was a grand statement, but the songs are tighter, shorter, and in some cases catchier than much of Arthur, and the thematic context is there if you search around a little. It's more than worth it for such awesome tracks like Lola, Apeman, This Time Tomorrow,  Get Back In Line, A Long Way From Home, but Dave's Strangers is a stone cold classic, and the band really cooks on things like "Powerman" .... All in all, it's hard not to love such great material played with such rawness and feel....

Give Preservation 1 a try as well. The rock opera thing has commenced but a few of the songs are as good as anything else they ever did...... Preservation 2 not so much, but it does have Mirror Of Love!!!!

No the track. I did not not even know of that comp's existence before you mentioned it.

Well, I suppose if you dig "Celluloid Heroes," it couldn't hurt to hunt down the album it came from.

I haven't heard Lola myself, so I'll have to take Pinder's word for it.

Take my word for it too, Lola vs Powerman & The Moneygoround Pt 1 (to give it it's full title) is a very strong album. Much more straight ahead rock then the previous couple of albums, check out Ray slagging off his record label, his managers and his publishers. It's brutal and yet very funny. Also Dave contributes a couple of fantastic tracks.

In Brief:

The first 2 albums are okay, but definitely a band developing their position [The Kinks/Kinda Kinks]

The 3rd album isn't necessarily as well formed as what came after it, but it is still a great album, just a same there isn't another track like Milk Cow Blues here [Kontroversy]

The 4th/5th/6th albums are stone cold classics without a shadow of a doubt. But as you've said you've explored these and can't grab Face To Face easily [Face To Face/Something Else/Village Green]

7th and 8th too some getting used to for me, but Arthur is now my favourite Kinks album, and Lola is great too, though Lola and Apeman don't seem to work here for me, but both albums too are Stone Cold Classics [Arthur/Lola]

9th is again strong, but a change of direction a bit. Need to be in the right mind frame for this, but still great [Muswell Hillbillies]

aaaaaaaand from there I'm not too familiar. Sleepwalker is great, and State of Confusion is pretty good too. Think Visual certainly wasn't bad, and neither was Give The People What They Want. I picked up a couple more of the LPs from this era recently but haven't 'got to know them yet', so give it time.

but yeah, anything from Kontroversy to Muswell Hillbillies will do you no wrong!

My favourite Kinks period is Arthur through to Percy (not all the tracks but some). Lola is my favourite album. Definitely worth checking out but maybe not as a starting point.

Things get less interesting for me from Muswell Hillbillies onwards.

Misfits is in my opinion the best of the later ones - anyone noticed the siminlaity of the guitar line in R'n'R Fantasy and The Night Was So Young???

Can't disagree with much that's been said.  i'll just add my favorite "post-Klassic" ("Face to Face" to "Muswell Hillbillies") period LP is -- by far -- "Schoolboys in Disgrace."  Well written and played, hooky, tight.

Don't sell the albums short from 1977 to late 80"s.. Lotta good stuff on there.. What I would avoid would be the CONCEPT Lp"S  Preservation 1 Preservation 2 Soap opera and schoolboys in disgrace.. You have to be a die hard Kinks fan for those.. Think Smiley Smile + Love You on those..Theres a 2 cd Kinks Kronikles Compilation that's good ..  From 77 -87  I would recommend sleep walker..  misfits ..the live lp or dvd..  state of confusion .. low budget.. think visual..  The Kinks recorded till mid 90"s so theres more ..

I agree. I collected the Kinks for years, and the last things I added to my collection were the rock opera's. Preservation is an interesting concept, but very self indulgent, I think it would be hard for a Kinks newbie to get into that one. Soap Opera is possibly the weakest album in their catalog; Schoolboys is my favorite of the bunch, it's much more lively, almost power pop at times. I much prefer the Arista era Kinks, especially Misfits, State of Confusion and Word Of Mouth. And a Kinks album should always have 1 or 2 Dave songs - love his guitar playing, and that high, strangled whine of his.

I actually like the concept LP"s but  I wouldn't advise newbies toward them.. As you say the worst was Soap opera + best was Schoolboys.. Soap opera is almost UNLISTENABLE;; I had the pleasure of seeing The Kinks Do Preservation 1+2 in concert 73-74 At a small hall. AWESOME  !! Big fan of the KINKS  !

Schoolboys is great and I'd say Preservation Act ! is half terrific.  Never liked Soap Opera but saw them on that tour and the stage show was wonderful.

I think 'Preservation 1' is the absolute worst they did pre '77 (after and including Sleepwalker I totally lost interest so I wouldn't know). The bitter-sweet melody of Lady Genevive is the only thing I can bring myself to compliment on that record.

I dig some of 'Preservation 2', though. Introduction To Solution, When A Solution Comes and Mirror of Love are quite nice. Scum of the Earth is a guilty pleasure. And I realize I'm in minority when saying this, but the plot ain't that bad either. Simple and foreseeable -yes, but at least it gives a sense of coherence, as opposed to the randomness of Act 1, where characters keep coming in and going out without any purpose or reason.

Also, I love the band's 60's and early 70's albums, but let's not forget that the Kinks also put out some fantastic hit singles, some of which are not included on their contemporary albums. I mean, All Day and All of the Night, See My Friends, Well Respected Man, Follower of Fashion, Dead End Street, Mr. Pleasant, Days just off the top of my head - that's some of the greatest pop of the 60's imo. Let's not overlook that aspect of the band.

Hey, there's no accounting for taste right?  Personally, I say all of side one of Preservation Act I is great -- Morning Song, Daylight, Sweet Lady Genevieve of course, Where Are they Now, and One of the Survivors.  Really sets a mood and hits it dead on.  But even if you can't dig what's happening there, how can a Kinks fan not *love* Sitting in the Midday Sun on side 2?  Another  ignored Ray Davies gem to go with all the others.

Yes I said "side one" and "side two."

Kink Kontroversy is the best of their early 'slap and dash' albums.  Follow this with Face To Face, Something Else, VGPS, Arthur, Money-Go-Round and Muswell Hillbillies - along with the fantastic Kink Kronikles compilation and you've got a a helluva string of albums.  Schoolboys In Disgrace is a favorite as well as the run of late '70's, early '80's "american" albums - Sleepwalker to State of Confusion (these are all really good).    i was sad that reunion tour of the four original Kinks never happened.   :(

To me it sounds like a lame attempt at recapturing the lazy mood and atmosphere of 'Sunny Afternoon'. Sorry.

It's actually one of the better Preservation songs. The better songs are mostly on Act 1, which is far less plot driven than Act 2. "Sweet Lady Genevieve" is one of Ray's most heartfelt songs, and how can any Kinks fan not love "One of the Survivors"? I have a poor quality, black and white video of "Soap Opera" live and it's much more enjoyable than the album version.

Second time I hear the "how can any Kinks fan not love..." expression in this thread, and this time around it's about my least favourite song on the album and one of my most disliked Kinks recordings.  :lol Funny how tastes differ.

I always love the Kinks doing straight ahead, driving rock 'n' roll.

I have been doing a lot (a lot) of Kinks listening lately and I've come to realize that, while important, the albums weren't the only "essential" things about The Kinks. In fact, sometimes the singles that were released were better than any of the songs on the actual album.

You never mentioned what 'version' of the CD's that you bought, but the new/newer reissues package the albums with the singles that were released around that era. If you don't have them already, I definitely recommend searching those out. They weren't only focused on albums, Ray put everything into those singles too! (Which is kinda disappointing because said singles never really made too much of an impact.)

Good point. For the first couple of years the b-sides and EP tracks were much better than much of the actual album content, plus all those fantastic non album singles! Even by the late 60's they were making b-sides that many groups would envy having for a-sides. Polly, Big Black Smoke, King Kong, the list goes on. Plus the b-sides often become the dumping ground for Dave's songs - he really developed as a songwriter over this period. Picture Book does a great job of rounding up all this material for anyone that already has the standard albums.

YEA.. They made some Awesome singles..!!  Waterloo Sunset + Days Are favorites.. Their early rockers my favorite single is Till the end of the day.. Somebody should cover that song..! 

I've heard all the singles. I have the Ultimate Collection. It was the only Kinks release I had for years, until I got Something Else and the Village Green Preservation Society in the spring. Because I already had access to Death Of A Clown and Waterloo Sunset for years I wasn't able to enjoy Something Else as much as I could have.

The Kinks were essentially a singles band until at least 1970. Their singles always had more fleshed out arrangements and production than the album tracks. Listen to Lola and Apeman on the Lola LP; the difference in production quality is astounding.

Actually, the Ultimate Collection is mostly A-sides. So, there's still a good deal of B-sides that you haven't heard that are worth searching for.

If you're interested, this is a pretty good resource for all the singles they released: http://www.kindakinks.net/discography/index.php?uksingles (http://www.kindakinks.net/discography/index.php?uksingles)

Village Green and Arthur are my personal faves, followed by Something Else.

everything from Something Else to Muswell Hillbillies is absolutley essential, aside from the Percy soundtrack

Lola vs. Powerman could be my favorite of the bunch. one of the strongest opening (and closing) tracks of all-time

I've bought a lot of the "Classic period" albums but the only that hasn't disappointed me so far is The Village Green Preservation Society. Nothing else they did really compares to it.

I've been doing my fair share on Kinks listening recently. Listening and re-evaluating some old stuff and checking out some new. What a lovely band.

I've grown to quite like Arthur. It's a departure from the acoustic guitar sound they had (that I love), but this album isn't too heavy on electrics yet. Some great songs here: "Victoria" is an awesome song with a great intro and enjoyable screaming from Dave in the background - he seems to be having fun on this one; "Drivin'" is lovely, escapist fun with those wonderful "do dodo doo"'s and is so very catchy; "Australia" and "Shangri-La" are some of the best songs that Ray's ever written, the former having some Beach Boy references in terms of harmonies and the latter has some incisive lyrics; "She's Bought a Hat Like Princess Marina" is another of my favorites (but probably not many other people's), my favorite moments being those wacky, kazoo filled choruses that are just so fun to listen to; Arthur closes out on "Arthur," perhaps a bit repetitive, but it's well-made and cruises right along.

I've also warmed to Lola Vs. Powerman, although I'd still probably listen to anything from Face to Face to Arthur instead. My favorite moments on this record are probably the music hall numbers ("Denmark Street," "Moneygoround"), "Strangers" (a very melancholy, ambiguous song from Dave), and the two singles. These being "Lola" and "Apeman." "Lola" is a great sing-a-long kinda song, and I love the grittiness in Ray's voice as he sings, as if he finds some wicked pleasure in this humorous story. "Apeman" might be my favorite track, not sure why. I love those opening piano chords and that "I don't want to live in this world no more" melody (here's a promo video for it that I love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlM52fUrNz4)). The other songs are quite alright also, I think they just take a bit of patient listening to really sink your teeth into.

The new album for me was Muswell Hillbillies, which I like a lot. An interesting sound and direction for this very English band, injecting some American country-rock into their tunes. Of course, Ray writes a song about his disillusionment - "20th Century Man" - and like usual, it's relatable and good, damn him. His music hall-like works are here as well ("Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues," "Holiday," "Alcohol"), all of which I love - he sure seems to know what he's talking about with "Alcohol." "Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues" and "Afternoon Tea" are great examples of Ray's humour - the "tea with your afternoon tea" always manages to inspire a chuckle from me. The other songs are great, too - "Skin and Bone" is a song with odd subject matter but some great bass vocals, surprisingly; "Complicated Life" is a good one too, very catchy, kinda one of his music hall-ish numbers; "Holloway Jail," "Oklahoma USA," and "Uncle Son" show up as some of the last songs and all seem to create quite a somber mood, playing up more of the folk side of country music - once again, an odd direction for them. I love it, nonetheless.

Back to eating my burrito...

All fantastic albums. When are you going to take the plunge and try Preservation Acts I & II?

The Kinks are all over English tv at the moment. Their songs are being used on 3 adverts. They are All Day and All of the Night, She's Got Everything and someone doing a cover of This Time Tomorrow.

After taking some time listening to Lola and Muswell some more, I'll be taking that plunge.
I'm more excited for Act I than I am Act II from what I read about it. It seems, like, if you were to take a concept album, separate all the "song"-songs from the "story"-songs, you would create Preservation Act I & II. I think anyone who's ever listened to a concept album before can see the flaw in that plan.

Is it possible to combine the two into a coherent album unto itself? Might be an interesting idea...

Apparently, Ray quite likes these two albums.

Anyway i stand by my statement VGPS is definitely their masterpiece. every song on that album is delicious. i love the diversity as well

im not so keen on Hillbillies...

Have you read the 33 1/3 book covering it? It's actually quite a good book.
New interviews, great background info, old quotes - does a great job of compiling it all into a coherent narrative.
The track-by-track write ups are nice too, and it's fun to listen along while reading what he says. He reeeeeaaaaaallllllyyyy likes "Big Sky."

big sky is one of the cleverest songs ever written

I really enjoy THE KINK KONTROVERSY. (http://oi61.tinypic.com/104rhqa.jpg)

I've been blasting a lot of Kinks tonight - God, Kontrovesty to Lola Verses Powerman is one of the greatest runs of albums by any group ever!

Those early albums kick some serious butt ...... Band swung and grooved and commanded their instruments in a way The Stones n Beatles never could .....

Its Gaz Coombes ex supergrass front man who does the cover. Very nice it is too.

When I first heard Supergrass's "Alright" (in 1995 or whenever it was) my first thought was "this has got to be a Kinks cover, right?"