The Smiley Smile Message Board

New digital release.
http://www.examiner.com/article/brian-wilson-s-the-big-beat-1963

Fascinating notion, and an excellent collection - looking forward to it..

However, is there any documentary proof that Brian had anything to do with the five Honeys demos ? It's 35 years ago now, but I recall that when they were included in a Derek Bill Honeys boot box set, they were said to be done by the girls as publishing demos, and had no BW involvement whatsoever. Not convinced about "Make The Night..." either - doesn't sound much like a BW '63 effort. More like... Murry, if anything.

Still, quite a collection…

The Capitol guys couldn't do worse than look to some of the threads here for liner note inspiration. Surely it can't be coincidence that some of this material is being discussed right now on this very board!?!?!

If AGD's concerns stand up, how about substituting the errant tracks with BW-related tunes form that era, and putting the others on to a bonus "CD" fleshed out with even more goodies… oh, and some bonus tracks… oh and some hidden tracks… and some Easter egg tracks… and… and …

Many thanks for the news David, and thanks to Lee, Mark, Alan and all for this Christmas treat!

Assume this is being released via Beach Boy Central…?

Bear in mind I'm going on 35-year old memories and that archival research has come on leaps and bounds since then... but those demos sound more like Usher than BW. Be thrilled to be proven wrong - the world needs more BW productions from the early 60s !  ;D

Wow, just a week from now. Color me excited!

I'm waiting for the first whine of "I wannit on VIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!" (SFX of pouting and stamping feet).  ;D

Mea very much culpa. Just read the text with m'specs on and unless I'm very much mistaken - or unless EU copyright law is changed - it looks like we can expect something like this every December to come for... well, a while. Color me a happy camper.  ;D

Well... I do. I'd at least like a CD. But I'd rather it than nothing. Be nice if it was on Amazon MP3 though, I avoid iTunes.

VERY Cool, Thanxx Dave! 

Wish I owned more than one of the acetates mentioned.  ( 22-WHEN I THINK ABOUT YOU (Honeys demo)  )

It was time to let the cat out of the bag!   :wink   Jennifer Ballantyne at Capitol gave Dave the go-ahead to announce it.  Especially since Apple/Capitol just announced the digital release of THE BEATLES - THE BOOTLEG RECORDINGS 1963 for the same day (17 December), for the same reason.

And Andrew is correct -- the common denominator here is 1963.  That's why you don't see the 1962  tracks like "Beginning of the End" or "Visions."  And unfortunately you can't expect a lot of unheard tracks such as Bob Norberg's "apartment demos" -- since he's never made a copy for ANYONE, they're not in danger of falling into the public domain.

Expect a little better sound quality than the boots on most tracks -- but in some cases it was imperative just to use SOME source before the end of the year, so that the copyright could be extended, so some tracks were sourced from collector's cassettes.  But the good side of a digital release is that the source file can be updated if a better source becomes available.

Lee

I love this idea! And I'm looking forward to hear an early "You brought it all on yourself" (or something like that). The Honeys cut it on their 80s album Ecstasy.

I believe "Make the Night" is a Nik Venet production -- like "From Jimmy with Tears."  That's my fault, as I helped Dave with that paragraph, and I should have written it "Beach Boys- and Brian Wilson-related..."

BTW, the arrangement of "Make the Night" owes a lot to this version by The Palisades: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU8TR-08yyU


Lee

have Dave go back and change it?

This is very exciting news. Really thrilled that something like this was even considered and is now actually being released.

Maybe change the title of this thread though to mention something about it being a new BW digital release? I almost didn't click on it. 

It is there.

"CEO Lee Dempsey". I didn't know he was a CEO.  That must take a lot of his time.  No wonder he doesn't post on the board much......

I remember seeing this kind of release on Derek Bill's or Peter Reum's lists directed at collectors.  This time, a legit Brian Wilson Productions comp with emphasis on rare '63 stuff essential to fans and collectors alike. Gotta gettit! 

Thanks for the link.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H4R77YY/ref=sr_1_1_rd?ie=UTF8&child=B00H4R7JQA&qid=1386780959&sr=1-1[/url]

LOL - The benefit of being the co-owner of a small business (Dave and I had to incorporate ESQ for legal reasons, to protect us from any potential libel issues) is you can declare your title to be anything! :)

Heck, I could appoint Will Brison as Secretary of the Corporation...

Lee

Excellent news! Time to go add some more credit to iTunes. ;D

Thanks Lee. I asked a few other folk, and the overall concensus is that those last five demos are not BW productions. No huge matter, and good to have this unexpected little gem pop up.

Yep I agree.  I think the description of "Brian Wilson-related" is a more accurate one -- as The Honeys are his, um, relations (or at least as of 1963, relations to-be).  Expect to see a change in the Examiner article if/when Dave can make the change.

The reality is that these non-Brian Honeys tracks needed EU copyright protection just like the true Beach Boys tracks, and there wasn't any way that Capitol was going to do a separate Honeys release, so it was prudent to slip these in.

Lee

Well at least those complaining that MIC should have Thank Him can be happy.

made the change

A question for the legal-eagles out there. Why does EU copyright law drive the issue for releases of material recorded in a non-EU country? Does it have anything to do with multinational ownership of record companies nowadays?

Goo question. I wondered whether it's more to do with the fear that something released legitimately in Europe will, in this digitrl age, be impossible to prevent being imported to the US in bulk.

Any sign of this getting an EU release though? Not on amazon UK so far…  Now that would really be unusual, given the circumstances driving the release.

This may not be directly related, but since last year, Spotify has been infested with roughly one bajillion different versions of Surfin' Safari, sailing under one bajillion different names, mostly featuring the words "surf'", "surfin'", "beach", "hits" and "best". In fact, I believe I really did see an album called The Beach Boys Best Surf, Surfin' & Beach Hits.

And the worst of it is... someone, somewhere is collecting and cataloging them all.  :o

I don't mind it being download-only....but why no lossless?!??

Had a similar thought when MiC came out without a lot of the earlier stuff that's been circulating in recent years, and speculate that it's simply because in a lot of cases the original source material isn't available to get such high quality copies that it'd be worth the while.  Until the original tapes surface, it's probably transfers from vinyl or acetates or even second/third/later generation cassettes. Might be that the MP3 format serves the material most efficiently.

Looks cool! I haven't heard that stuff so I welcome its release.

You know, I've only seen/heard "Little Dirt Bike" on one Honeys comp (bootleg) through the years. It's probably not up to the standards of the songs on this particular release, and there are are a couple more that slip my mind now that have never seen the light of day; only in printed text.

Track listing for the Beach Boys Collectors Series Volume 2 - The Honeys: The Definite Album

Shoot The Curl
Surfin' Down The Swanee River
Pray For Surf
Hide Go Seek
Three Surfer Boys*
From Jimmy With Tears
Once You've Got Him + [1]
Little Dirt Bike+
The One You Can't Have
He's A Doll
The Love Of A Boy And Girl
For Always And Ever+ [2]
Darlin' I'm Not Steppin' Out On You+ [3]
When I Think About You+ [3]
Goodnight My Love
Tonight You Belong To Me

  * - Gary Usher & The Usherettes (guess who ?)
  + - demos, all written by Ginger & Diane
[1] - demo for Hayley Mills
[2] - demo for The Paris Sisters
[3] - very much in the country style

Yep. That's the only one where "Little Dirt Bike" has seen the light of day. Actually, it was overcast.  Came with a poster and button, and if you're not careful, that loose button could slide around and damage the contents of the box.

Brother Mikie!  Merry Christmas.   Got some time between shopping and making candles...
My old Honeys box says "The Definite Album Vol. III"
I just dragged it out of a closet.  Inside it's got an acetate of "Darlin I'm Not Steppin Out on You."
Sheesh.  Forgot all about this stuff.

And random buyers got extra protection! But not me...
All the original sets were numbered, mine is #69. You still have the plastic sleeve with the number Mikie?   
and some people also bought acetates as with mine, or D's:

 

Hey Big Don, what it is, funky dude?  Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Yes! *Sound of a buzzer* You caught AGD with an incorrect factoid! It's "Beach Boys Collector's Series Vol. III The Honeys: The Definitive Album"
Mine didn't come with an acetate though, darn it.

Bgas, yes mine is numbered. Original condition as received by Mr. Bill.

Mine is numbered 110 (of 150?).  Guess I really didn't rate that highly.

My acetate didn't come with the box.  I must have thrown it in there later.

By the way, the original outer plastic sleeve has a decal that says "Series Vol. II"
So, yikes, someone wasn't careful. The album label says "mfd. in Paraguay".
I wonder what those Paraguay guys are up to today.

Hi Don!   :wave

Rated higher? Maybe just faster buying...
Like me, you must have  bought the acetate at close to the same time as the box,  and stored it there when you got it.  Most likely even shipped to you in the box!
From the same supplier, don't think anyone else had them. Miss him, for sure.

song list updated and finalized…

clearer than Amazon.com

http://www.examiner.com/article/brian-wilson-s-the-big-beat-1963

I would hazard (guess/stab in the dark) the mp3 distro is a vendor (Apple/Amazon) standard/requirement rather than about the source material.

Based on Mark L's standard approach, I would guess He and Alan B transfered/mastered this collection at 24 bit/88.2khz;
and then prep'd 16 bit/44.1khz (CD standard).

Either in loseless would be great - having said that I think John is right to say it may not be a huge issue given the source material.

Shall we agree on on "Volume 2.5" ?  ;D

Or maybe not:

1 - Bob & Sheri 45 repro (edition of 1000, numbered)
2 - Honeys box (150, numbered)
3 - Hawthorne Hot Shots 2EP set (500, numbered by hand)
4 - Smile front cover
5 - Smile back cover (200, numbered by hand)
6 - Borscht Boys EP (500, numbered, unreleased)

Honeys album may say "Volume III" on the box, but it's Vol. 2 of the series. Like I said.  :)

BTW, as Don accurately states, the correct title for the album is The Honeys: The Definite Album Vol. III - not "definitive". Thus:

(http://coconutsdisk.com/kichijoji/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/33honeys.jpg)

Just noted that the Big Beat on amazon .com will have metadata identifiers (or whatever they're called!):

"Record Company Required Metadata: Music file metadata contains unique purchase identifier."

So no sharing, kids!

Converts file. Destroys identifier.

Hi Lee!  And AGD! That new disc looks to be fabulous. Love that track, Bobby Left Me.
I wish the young ones here could feel the mystery and excitement that permeated the
early days of collecting.  Communication and sharing were positively 19th century.  Dudes
on the West Coast had a leg-up.  And so much was unknown.  Great days in the 1970s.

Gosh I wish it was a "disc."  There will not be a physical release -- just download.  Although certain individuals are lobbying for a "Record Store Day" type limited vinyl release at some point...

Lee

When I read about THE BIG BEAT news yesterday, well, that just about made my whole month.  That is just fantastic news. A big THANKS to Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Lee Dempsey, David Beard, and Vickie Hale.  And those Hawthorne Hotshots.

I'm wondering how much, if any, input was received from Brian for the credits with these tracks. Or was most of it, if not all, gleamed from tape boxes in the vaults, acetates, etc. And more importantly does it all supplant what had been formerly thought (i.e., the SOT series).  For instance,

1. THE BIG BEAT -- I don't have clear idea of what Bob Norberg's voice sounds like, so I guess this is indeed him and Sheri. Is Brian doubling Bob's lead vocal? ["Uncle Remus, Aunt Jemina had a corn bread (great?) timer . . . Surely, a different era. But not to be be outdone by the Italian slurs leading into "Pamela Jean"]. Any idea of who says, "We're running out of time again" on the master?

2.  RIDE AWAY -- Is that really Bob (Norberg) and Sheri (Cheryl Pomeroy) singing?  The male vocal always sounded like Brian to my ears.  And, is the female vocal indeed the elusive Ms. Pomeroy?

3.  MARIE -- I can buy the Honeys on background vocals, but what is Bob Norberg's involvement?  I he the male voice in the background vocals (the "babba, bab, ba")?

4. MOTHER MAY I -- Is this indeed a Beach  Boys' track, perhaps intended, but rejected for Surfin' U.S.A., Surfer Girl or Little Deuce Coupe?  And, really, what was he thinkin' with that voice on the chorus? An eleven-year foreshadowing of "Child Of Winter."

5. I'LL NEVER LOVE AGAIN (aka, IF IT CAN'T BE YOU) -- I listed them in that order since that is how the engineer identified it on SOT. So, is Larry Denton out and Gary Usher in?  I have no idea what Larry Denton sounded like or, for that matter, who he is except "a friend of Brian's." And I didn't think Gary Usher had this good of a voice.  So, I'm having trouble believing this is Usher, but would welcome being proved wrong.

6. THANK HIM -- I was under the impression this was a Brian and Bob Norberg collaboration, and was surprised to read it was all Brian. But I can buy that. Rich Peterson (Alarian) of the Survivors mentions it in Brad Elliott's excellent interview in Don Cunningham's seminal fanzine Add Some Music (summer 1983 Vol 6, No. 2), so it probably dates from summer/fall 1963.

Does anyone have any ideas on where and when these were recorded? And who were the musicians? Any of the Boys? For instance, is that Steve Douglas on sax on RIDE AWAY and who plays that smoking lead guitar solo on THE BIG BEAT?

Great stuff.  Thanks again to all involved.   

In addition to wishing there was a vinyl 45 rpm ("The Big Beat" b/w "Ride Away," Safari 102) with picture sleeve, of course . . . I only wish Derek Bill, Les Chan, and Gary Johnson (Rockaway Records) were here to enjoy this release. Maybe somewhere, in their own space and time, they'll be diggin' it, too, on December 17. 

That's what I get for posting from work and going from memory. I referred to The BootlegZone, who has it wrong (confusing) My copy is in storage, so what better evidence is an actual scan of the box? Sorry boys.

So there will be mp3 files to download, right? And those can be popped on a disc and make your own CD sleeve(s) and you're dancin'.

Right?

Jim Murphy... you brought a tear to my eyes.  Those good guys who are gone...  Plus Bob H.

Coming back to me now...Seems that great Brad E. Survivors interview should have been in the book.
But the Brad E. items were stepped around.  He might have been planning something of his own.
I don't really recall.

When you mention a voice sounding like Brian...it makes me think of the old debate with the
song Twelve-o-Four, which sure as hell sounds like Brian. 

Bring it on!  "It's sure to sell a hundred copies in January...."

Hi Don, just wanted to say hello, Gerhard

Gerhard!  I hope you and yours are well.  What a pleasure.

 

That Survivors interview was in an "Add Some Music" fanzine issue, wasn't it Don? The one where Norberg or Allarian said they were Beach Boys and did vocals on the Surfer Girl album? Are you saying the interview shoulda been included in your book? Maybe it's good that it was left out - some of it was bull pucky, right?  :-D  Maybe he was planning on using it in his Recording Sessions book that never materialized.  Maybe Hank knows..... 

Maybe Brad will just come "out of hiding" and post here. ( maybe he already is)
It's  a message board, I don't think anyone can trace him to his house from here

Jim Murphy, thanks for your contributions here. This board needs some good meaty stuff about now. Les Chan was a friend of mine in the Bay Area and I miss him too - especially his very abrupt endings to phone calls.  :-D  Les' good friend Pete Bogdanos seems to have taken a back seat for awhile, but hopefully will come back and be active in Beachboyland soon.

OOPS!!  Jim Murphy! Hope his Irish doesn't come welling up and swat you one Mikie!! 
Pete the Greek hasn't taken a back seat to anyone; he's busy as ever with the Starline variations site, when work allows; he just doesn't post much, tending to send emails instead. 

Hey Jim,

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but if I were in Capitol's shoes it might be prudent to assume that the performer on a track is a singer who either has a performance contract / release on file, or someone who could be located quickly to execute such a release -- versus someone who is lost to time, and for which no paperwork exists.  Just speculating...

Lee

Speaking of Brad, doesn't this mean that THE COMPLETE HITE MORGAN SESSIONS is now in the public domain in the EU???

(Edit: at least the unreleased takes on it.)

Lee

Sorry, Jim. I work with a "Jim Wilson" and got momentarilly confused.  I can always count on Bgas to jump fast and correct me. Just like he can count on me for correcting him when he always uses the non-word "ALOT" in a sentence.  ;D

Now that you've pointed it out to him, perhaps we can expect an imminent release!

Yes.  With Brad, it was more like imminent surcease.

But you had to love the guy...his energy, hopes. And for those of us
who got to see him in a traditional dirndl ... great legs!

OH!  To see Brad prancing around the tents at Oktoberfest!!!!

I never checked out Brad's legs but I think I saw a picture of him once - wearing a beard and a plaid shirt. Wasn't he from Virginia or the Carolinas?  Or God forbid, the DC area?

I have a direct connection to the boys in Paraguay. The Dutch Beach Boys albums "The Definite Album" and "Another Definite Album" ere the source of the title "The Honeys:  The Definite Album Volume III." The  Honeys Box as indeed the second volume of the Collectors Series. The provenance of the Honeys acetates was The Capitol Swap Meet, 1975. Don Speers bought them, then sold them to me when he dumped his collection in disgust upon release of The Beach Boys Love You. They then went to  to my ex, and presumably were bought by Derek Bill, who sold them to Lee. That Honeys Box was purely a fan issue, and was the first time those Capitol sides were collected on one piece of vinyl. according to the guys in Paraguay anyhow.......it seems a bit fitting that almost 40 years later, those Honeys acetates have found their way back, at least musically, to Capitol.

DON and LEE

Yeah, we lost several good guys and knowledgeable Beach Boys' fans all in a row there. 

Like so many of us on this Board, my introduction to the world of Beach Boys collecting and, in part, their vast body of work came from those familiar mailings from Oxnard, California.  I remember thinking, "What the hell kind of a name is Oxnard?" Derek was probably thinking, "How does a guy in the Bronx grow up liking the Beach Boys?"  Funny thing, I still have all of Derek's lists.  I break them out now and then, and smile at the prices. I guess they seemed fair to expensive back then.  A $300 splash wax "Barbie?"  I'll take 100, thank you very much, and send another 100 to that bgas guy in St. Louis. You know, it's been twenty years, but what the hell does "bgas" mean?  I think Andrew once pointed out that it's a Jan & Dean reference, but it eluded me then as it does now. Derek was a good soul. And back in the day, that Beach Boys Collectors Series was REALLY SOMETHING.  I mean, those releases were just beyond cool to look forward to, receive in the mail, fondle (Did I say fondle?), and listen to.  Bonus Tracks before the term was coined.  Here were fully produced tracks by the guys that, for one reason or another, got left on the shelf. And now they were pressed up on vinyl just like a regular record for your listening enjoyment. Quite frankly, I didn't think about the legal issues or revenue deprivation and such.  And I understand the concern from the artists's point of view. But the recipients of those "custom records" were filled with a sheer innocence and joy to be able to hear more of their favorite band.  That is something with which, at his very soul, I believe Brian could identify. The guy who elevated the 45 rpm record to a work of art.  The guy who transformed the B side from a throw-away track to charting record. A list of Beach Boys' B sides reads like a Greatest Hits album. All packaged in a neat, full-color sleeve for seventy-cents. Brian produced 45s like little gifts. Like all of us, I suspect, I would have purchased -- and did -- every release the guys put out. Unfortunately, but I suppose inevitably, Derek paid the price for his perceived transgressions, but make no mistake that he brought a tremendous amount of joy and happiness to people who have enjoyed a lifetime of the music of the Beach Boys. And that will always be a good thing. So, once again, thank you, Derek.  And this coming Tuesday, while I'm downloading THE BIG BEAT, I'll be thinking of you. And then I'm going to listen to HAWTHORNE HOTSHOTS on Jackalope Records!

I met Les through the live recordings trading circuit back in the day.  On a business visit to the East Coast, he and I, and our good friend, Mike Browning, got together for an evening of Beach Boys fun. Les was always such an upbeat and positive person. His love of the band was contagious. If you weren't already a Beach Boys' fan, you were after speaking with Les. He developed some pretty impressive Beach Boys' connections, and was always willing to share stories, anecdotes, and news.  Some time ago, I bought the promotional sailor's cap that Warner Brothers produced to promote SAIL ON SAILOR. It's a goofy item, I know, but I love authorized promotional stuff. When I received it, it's a size small, at best, as in infant or toddler size small, so it wouldn't fit on my big melon.  But as I was turning it over in my hands and examining it, I looked in the inner lining. And there it was. Written in ink was a name.  Les Chan.  It made me think of his perpetually smiling face. And that it once brought him, as it does me, a measure of joy. That made me smile.

Wayne and Gary Johnson have been friends for thirty years and I have enjoyed many transactions with the Brothers Rockaway. When I visited LA in 1983, I had the good fortune of being invited by Wayne to go see the Honeys who were promoting Ecstasy and playing in a club whose name I cannot recall.  During their set breaks they joined us at the table.  Sweet as, well . . . honey!   

I'm sorry to have inadvertently omitted Bob Hanes from my list of Beach Boys' fans/collectors who left us too soon. I had always heard of Bob's legendary status among collector circles, but never had the privilege to speak with him or have our paths cross.  Surely, my loss. I just re-read Lee's beautiful and moving tribute to Bob posted on this board when Bob transitioned July 5, 2010. Among other things shared during their last conversation, Lee told Bob that he loved him. I literally sat back in my chair when I read that. What an extraordinarily kind thing to say. Now, I did not know Bob, but I would bet a small fortune, or an "I Was There KFWB DAY!" sleeve, that simple act of kindness meant the world to him.  One thing collectors of all sorts eventually realize and come to grips with, is the undeniable futility of collecting things. Records, picture sleeves, sailor hats. I suspect they are all attempts to get a little closer to the pure source of where the music originated.  Some form of transcendence.  But the only thing of real value in this Life is love and friendship. So, while Bob amassed many fun and interesting Beach Boys' collectibles in his life, I feel pretty certain he would have traded them all for that one "I love you" from a true friend who knew and understood. What greater gift?

LEE

Thanks for that perspective on some of the tracks on THE BIG BEAT.  We may need a second set of liner notes to straighten out the legally expedient ones. Gary Usher: If it can't be you on "If It Can't Be You," then who can it be? Paging Larry Denton, clean up on aisle . . . . Oh,well. Thanks for your thoughts Lee, and for sharing your collection with the rest of us! Looking forward to it.


CHRIS

I don't really get my Irish up much anymore.  Wait a second, wait a second . . . that sounds like one of those god-awful Cialis commercials that urge middle-aged men to be "ready when the moment comes," like some sort of Normandy invasion. We mellow as we get older. And, besides, who on this Board would complain being mistaken for a Wilson? And I've been called worse. Much worse. Now. . . let's talk about that Sacramento Guild For Crippled Children concert program. I'll trade you a swatch of Al Jardine's pants for it. And, just to sweeten the deal, and so you have a complete outfit, a shirt, too. Extra small. ;D 


VINYL

The Beach Boys and Capitol/EMI have been pretty good supporters of the resurgence of vinyl. For Record Store Day, specifically, they produced the Heroes and Villains piece for SMILE, although I am still scratching my head why it was on 78 rpm. And the 10" SURFIN SAFARI and ISN'T IT TIME with the very cool gate-fold cover. Having said that, and I always feel unappreciative when I say this, I kind of wish the Boys had supported this past Black Friday with a seven-inch vinyl release from Made In California. Oh, well. Maybe Record Store Day this coming April, although I can't imagine what they would have to promote . . . except, maybe, THE BIG BEAT.   

BRAD

I spoke with Brad not too long ago and we made plans to get together that never materialized. At the time he was living in Roanoke, Virginia. As some of you know, Brad was always an interesting and fascinating guy to speak with, filled with great insight and love for that band. As Don mentioned above, Brad was always hopeful, energetic, and enthusiastic. Although it has now been an astonishing thirty-two years, his Surf's Up still stands as a monumental work, written in that far and distant time before the World Wide Inter-Web, and barely a week goes by that I do not still consult it. Sadly, I suspect it will never be updated and Popular Culture, Ink., his publisher, is now defunct. I was one of the fortunate ones, I suspect, who declined investing $10,000 in FIRST WAVE. I imagine investors at any level have an entirely different, and completely justifiable, view of him. I'm not sure what went wrong there. Financial set-back, personal hardship, greed, something else?  But I had the exact same thought as Lee did.  I remember Brad saying that, in light of copyright laws and public domain (my eyes glaze over with legal issues), after fifty years he would be free and clear to release all of the Hite Morgan recordings. But that milestone occurred in 2012, and no imminent news on its release. The Morgan's decades-long lawsuit involving the recordings was finally resolved a few years back, and the recordings were sold to BUG Music. So, legally speaking, I am uncertain if Brad has any right to issue them now.  Besides, his pockets were never nearly as deep as Brother Records, Incorporated, so it would be a fool's errand to test those waters again. But, interestingly, I bet he has a master copy tucked away somewhere. Actually, I believe the restraining order came down pretty close to the eleventh hour, so does anyone know if the 2-CD set was actually manufactured?  If it was, I wonder where they wound up?  Probably in a landfill somewhere in eastern Pennsylvania with the original SMILE booklets.   

PETER

Always good when the esteemed Mr. Reum checks in for a visit. Us East Coast guys dreamed about those Capitol Records swap meets, but it was a long walk from the Bronx. Oh, for a time machine.  What a great era for collecting. And, please, never tell me what those Honeys' acetates sold for. How many were there?  One for each song, presumably?  I had to laugh when I read "dumped his collection in disgust upon release of The Beach Boys Love You.  I don't know Speers, but, wow, talk about a visceral reaction to some hoarse vocals. But, truth be told, my brother and I listened to the LOVE YOU preview on New York radio, WNEW I think, and we looked at each other like, "What the eff is this? Maybe another take, Bri?" Suffice it to say, some of Brian has to grow on you through the historical lens of time.  Interesting phenomenon that lens of time. Thanks, Peter, for your association with those boys in Paraguay. Brought me and many others lots of happiness. And your generous loan is safe and sound and will be making its way home shortly.  :)

Actually I never got any of those Derek Bill Honeys acetates; I think Daniel may have bought them back for Marilyn.  My acetates mostly came from a collection that Rockaway Records bought in 1996 or 1997 (anybody remember who's it was?).  I remember that "Rabbit's Foot" was relatively cheap compared to some of the others that were in the list.  But what I think happened is Wayne or Gary dropped the needle on the first 15 or 20 seconds of it, listened to it, and said, "Well, this is just the 'Our Car Club' track, and that's already been released as a bonus track on the two-fers," and picked up the needle before the Honeys jumped in.  I remember when I told bgas what it really was, he called Rockaway and told them that they blew it.  They never gave me another great deal after that.  Thanks Chris! :p

Peter, I think the only thing from your ex's collection that I bought off of Derek was the "Add Some Music" 8-track and cassette color separations.  Still have those.

Lee

Jim, What a beautiful post. I think I made it to one Capital swap.  Think I handled a Help Me Rhonda acetate and put it down.  I did purchase
a large MIU album promo poster, with the period babe on a beach holding the colorful umbrella.  I've got that in a big frame to this day.  But that is all.

I'm happy to say that one of the last things I said to Bob H. was I love you.  He had been Emailing materials about some leftist left coast doings.
Harmless stuff, really. I wrote him an Email saying something like, "I love you Bob, but stop sending me that stuff."  Hah.  Bittersweet.

Wonderful people in the Beach Boys universe.

Does anybody know what became of Mike Clark?  Peter?
 

There are more rarities on this thing than the MADE IN CALIFORNIA box.

Indeed, the excitement about this is like the old days, when a new outtake would surface and I'd get a call from Bob Hanes saying, "Listen to this!" in his "Magic Transistor Radio" voice before he played it over the phone.

It's been three and a half years since Bob passed away, but we owe Bob more for this release coming out that you would think... Right Peter?  ;)

Lee

Beach Boys fan pre-internet primary sources for my collection and knowledge:

Beach Boys Freaks United - Lillie
Pet Sounds fanzine - Leaf
Add Some Music fanzine - Cunningham
Friends Of The Beach Boys fanzine - Taber (Cancelled subscription after 1rst issue)
Endless Summer Quarterly fanzine - Beard, Mast, Edgil, Dempsey
Beach Boys Stomp fanzine - Grant
The Clown Princes of Rock & Roll - A California Saga - Colville
Friends of Dennis Wilson fanzine - Duffy
Goldmine Magazine
Discoveries Magazine
Record Collector Magazine
Peter Reum auction lists
Derek Bill auction lists (Visited Brian in Bel Aire with Derek)
Steve Bates auction lists
Midnight Records auction lists
Capitol Records parking lot record swap meets, Los Angeles, Pasadena (maybe 5 or 6 of them)
Tower, Moe's, Rasputin's, Leopold's, Amoeba Records, Berzerkely
Tower, Let It Be Records, Recycled Records, Streetlight Records, Amoeba's, San Fransicko
Tower, Rockaway Music, Music Man Murry, Wenzel's Music Town, Wallach's Music City, Record Collector, Peaches, Los Angeles
Tower, Rare Records, 804 K St. Mall, 9th St. Records, Sacramento
Tower, Rowe's Rare Records, Big Al's Record Barn, San Jose
Blue Meanie Records, El Cahones
Forgot the name, Singapore, mail order only, original silver CD's up the wazoo.

I also traded with Les Chan and a guy named Mark Plummer from Washington State. And Paul Hansen up the road from me. And Don Spears, who lived 20 minutes away in Hayward, Ca. One day Don called me up, told me his father had just passed away and he was selling his collection. I was shocked. He offered his Kenny & The Cadets and Bob & Sheri to me for a reasonable price. He says, "Mike I'll give you my Bob & Sheri record for 300 bucks. I passed, because at the time, 300 bucks was a lot of money for a 45, and I had bills to pay. Looking back now, I kick myself. I think it was mint or close to mint. Spears had pretty much everything and the money to get what he didn't have. He shared tapes and other stuff with me. Like Plummer, he just dropped off the Earth - haven't heard from either of them since the 70's. Plummer, who also had a great Jan & Dean collection, always mentioned Peter's name. Peter has this and Peter has that. My first source for a SMiLE tape in the late 70's. I have an 8x10 picture on my wall of a picture that Les took of Brian Wilson and me in front of his limo at one of the Beach Boys conventions in San Diego. That's prized possession next to my Surf's Up poster and the poster of The Boys circa '71 (a picture of the band that Steve Desper took in Brian's back yard during a Surf's Up session). All the BB conventions in Oakland and San Diego were great. And back in '04 (?) I got my picture taken with Les, Will Brison, Frank Holmes, and others after dinner with them in S.F. - another night to remember. Will brought a couple of Smile goodies with him - I tried not to leave any drool marks on them. Les was always real good at organizing conventions and get-togethers with fans and stuff. He's missed. So is the guy who traded tapes and not only made BB T-shirts, but would give you the shirt off his back, Greg Larson. Had a lot of phone conversations with Greg; some after he'd obviously knocked back a few. Good people. Good times....

Mikie --

That's quite the list. Thanks for posting it. Lots of overlap with the one in my mind, but many more West Coast sources. I bought many, many things from Blue Meannie and Gary Schrum.  Got to stop in and meet him once while I was in San Diego. Now I speak with him at Heritage Auction in Dallas. Great guy. Some of my NYC haunts were Strider Records, House of Oldies, Midnight Records. I bought a beautifully autographed "Here Comes the Night" blue vinyl 12 inch single in the Village for ten bucks.  The clerk didn't realize it was signed by all five Beach Boys.  The down side? I almost sprained my wrist trying to get my wallet out that fast ;D

I remember getting Goldmine and Discoveries and pouring over those Set Sale lists in tiny tiny print.

Beach Boys' fans/collectors have got to be some of the nicest people in the world.

I chuckled about the $300 for a mint Bob & Sheri, but you're right.  Back in the 1970s, that was A LOT of money.  I remember getting Derek's list, making my own want list from it, and thinking, "Hmm, I'd really like that one, but that's too much money."  Everything is relative, I suppose.

So, and this question is for anyone who can shed some light on it (Lee, Chris, Peter, Don), what's the story about the Honeys' acetates?  How many are there? Are there basically one each for the unreleased tracks that appeared on THE HONEYS DEFINITE set?  Is there one for "Funny Boy?"  And, somewhat related, whatever happened to the "Thank Him" acetate offered a bit ago?  Did that find its way back to Brian?

Good question Jim.  I don't know how many of each acetate there are, but I think I was offered "Darlin' I'm Not Steppin' Out On You" several times over the years, so I always assumed there was more than one.

"Funny Boy," "Mother May I," and the rest of that batch - I may be wrong, but I believe that tape was found in Audree's possessions when the family was searching for material for the 1993 Good Vibrations boxed set. I'm guessing reference cassettes were made for the family and for folks in the Tower, but then the trail gets lost. 15 or so years later we get the IN THE BEGINNING boot.  There were a bunch of surprises on that for me.

I think I heard that the "Thank Him" acetate was acquired on Brian's behalf.

Lee

I understand that some folks have a particular interest in this early era side project sort of stuff, but I can think of a few dozen tracks on MIC that are both more interesting and more important in my view than anything on this new set.

I dunno, I appreciate all the work going into this set, it's nothing but good. But I can't get too super enthused about a download-only compilation of outside productions, side projects, and demos, all from 1963, and sourced from varieties of sources, and released for the sole intention of keeping stuff from falling into public domain. I'd take the alternate take of "Meant for You" over anything on this set. It's of course cool that we don't have to choose.

  It's all just $$...  If Don had offered me the Bob and Sheri for $300, I'd have found it, without a second thought. I bought my red/yellow Kenny from Derek for $375( 1975?), which was ALOT then for sure, but how often do you get that chance?( Course that was all I bought for a while)  But we all make choices.
 
Anyway,  Honeys acetates:  I don't really know quantity. Have to believe there would be more than one of each, but I've never seen another like mine offered. How about yours Don?
We have to believe there's only one Rabbit's Foot. IF there are more, Wayne's waiting until Lee ponies up some REAL $$$$

I also heard  THANK HIM was bought on behalf of Brian; don't know for sure. ( Maybe it was Lee that told me)

Mark Plummer and his Ripped Baggies Club....

Yeah, I remember Rockaway having that SMILEY SMILE promo piece. And, like you, wish I had hammered out a deal or simply bit the bullet.  Sometimes the prices are a bit difficult to justify.  And you snooze you lose. Oh, well.  I wonder where that eventually went?  Cool that you have a photo of it. That thing has got be unbelievably rare. Never saw one before, haven't seen one since. Used to think the Best of Vol 3 record bin stand-up was rare, but there's a few of them floating around. That's another cool promo piece. You have that one, right, Chris?

Yes, I think...  Mine have easels on the back, like a counter display. Is that the same as what you mention?  



I noticed that Rhino.com is having a contest in honor of AGD:  http://www.rhino.com/article/win-a-copy-of-morrisseys-autobiography?eml=rn/121213/Morrissey2

I hope this isn't going to be just a digital release.

Some of us old-fashioned types actually like to own things...

CD please!

Oh, I'd love a CD of this too... but I guess our wants and requirements are, more than ever with this particular release, not the point!

Lovely cover art. It would look great as a real object, and I'd prefer uncompressed audio... but I'm guessing the economics for a physical release just don't stack up. And also, this stuff isn't being put out for us anyway, it's just for legal reasons!

Then again... Mark and Alan are fans too, so perhaps they're working with the impetus created by the copyright extension requirement — but simultaneously, on what is no doubt a miniscule/non-existent budget, trying to give us the best possible package given that the stuff has to be put out anyway for legal reasons. After all, you could release this thing digitally with NO cover art - and yet the 'sleeve' is a lovely piece of design. Some care and thought has clearly been involved!

Who knows, perhaps these annual digital releases will become the 21st century equivalent of Derek Bill's releases... extra goodies for the über-fans.

I don't use the iTunes store... but I think I might be starting soon!

EDIT: Wait, just a minute — where exactly IS this thing going to be released? After all, if it's in the USA iTunes store, that DOESN'T mean UK customers (such as myself) can buy it... Hey Capitol! I'm trying to give you some dollars!!! Where do I send them????

Man, I had a chance at that Best of Vol. 3 stand-up at the Valley Forge Record Show in 1988.  Same show where I met Steve Bonilla and Marisa and talked about her being a backing vocalist on Dennis' "Morning Christmas."  Same show where I met collector Steve Harvey, who owned the Capitol/Angel/Seraphim salesman's disc with the SMiLE promo advert.  Anyway I think the guy wanted around $100, but I had flown into Philly on business and I was worried about how I would get it onto the plane, so I passed.  I could have always had him mail it to me. Darn...

Stevie H is a long-time friend of mine: you should see his basement. Rock memorabilia central.

Lee, going back to the new 'release' - will there be a digital booklet, or do we have to supply our own ?

I believe Capitol was looking for a volunteer to write liners (as in unpaid).  Not sure if anyone signed up.  I know C-man had gathered some information from me about some of these tracks a couple of weeks before I contacted by Alan; I don't know if he has anything formal or informal in the works.  Between all of us on this board we could put together some great notes.  Maybe we ought to create a Wiki where we can all contribute...

Lee

Ah... I was good to go right up to "unpaid".  ;D

CHRIS

Yep, that's it.  I did not know there was a different one for the UK. There's a Billboard ad from Capitol that shows the whole series of Capitol artists for which they produced these record bin stand-ups.  I wonder if your counter-top easel came that way or some enterprising fan converted it into a counter-top display. I guess your UK one got pinned up a few too many times. Cool stuff.  I have the U.S. version.

THE BIG BEAT

I'd love to see a CD (and vinyl too, actually, but that will never happen) release of this, but agree the chances are pretty slim. Not sure if this project is being hastily put together or if it has been in the works for a while.  One would think that, since the material needed to be released for copyright extension, Brian would want to give it the treatment it deserves.  These are some of his earliest recordings from a year that saw a meteoric rise in his songwriting and production -- three double-sided singles, three albums, a Christmas single, songwriting for Shut Down Vol 2, and preparation for the Australian/New Zealand tour; then, there's the Honeys, Bob & Sheri, Bob & Vickie, Jan & Dean, the Survivors, Sharon Marie, the Castells, the Timers. An unbelievably creative period for Brian. And it's not like these are some embarrassing demos or half-baked sketches. These are terrific songs that could have been released at the time. Even the significantly more primitive Hite Morgan recordings (FIRST WAVE) were about to get a more fully produced treatment and liner notes.  Certainly these historic 1963 recordings deserve no less. 

I don't mean to sound unappreciative.  I'm not.  I'm ecstatic these songs are seeing an official light of day and appreciate everyone's efforts of those involved. Why on Earth (well, I know why) would Capitol/EMI expect someone to write liner notes and not be paid for their work? Isn't that rich?  Also, as one example, if that's not Gary Usher on "I'll Never Love Again," will there not be a problem writing the liner notes? 

BOB and SHERI

Vickie Kocher Hale does not recall ever meeting Cheryl Pomeroy. When Brian and Bob played her a few songs in their Crenshaw apartment for her to choose from, and she selected THE SURFER MOON, she recalled that Brian and Bob sort of looked at each other a bit oddly -- the strong inference being, as she recalled, that it was like, "Oh, gee, what are we gonna do, she picked the song you sang with Cheryl." But she really liked the song, although she did not see herself as as "surfer girl" and suggested the name change to "The Summer Moon." So, the elusive Ms. Pomeroy may have been out of the picture by April 1963 when Brian, Bob, and Vickie got together to run through some songs. I only bring this up because it may help to date any Bob & Sheri recordings. I tracked down Bob's Sigma Chi fraternity roommates at USC at 928 West 28th Street on The Row. He was in a musical combo, a trio with guitar, keyboards, and drums, that played at Hollywood celebrity parties (lots of stars' kids attended USC) and backed up folks like Connie Stevens when she performed on campus. For the real trivia nuts, he played a Silvertone 1421 hollow-body electric guitar with two pick-ups, a single cutaway, and shaded walnut finish. But I digress. None of his roommates remembered Cheryl.  In fact, and I found this quite fascinating, none of them knew Bob went on to live with Brian Wilson and write a bunch of songs with him that the Beach Boys recorded! One guy responded, "You're kidding!" No, I'm not. Bob graduated USC in June 1961. Since his roommates do not recall him having a girlfriend at the time, most likely he began dating Cheryl post-graduation. Certainly by late spring/summer 1962 when Brian befriended Bob and Cheryl when the Boys played a Sigma Chi alumni event at USC. And then she was out of the picture by April 1963. Bob is saving his recollections for the upcoming Brian bio, but it sure would be great if he contributed some factual information about the time he spent creating music with Brian Wilson. But, as long as he gets it written down and documented with Brian's biographer, that will most assuredly be a good thing.   

By the way, at one time I thought I heard that the vocalist on "I'll Never Love Again" (copyrighted as "If It Can't Be You") was Ron Wilson of the Surfaris (totally unrelated to Brian's later production of the African-American singer Ron Wilson).  I would have to pull out my Surfaris albums to see if the vocal timbre matches up.

Lee

I just remembered this story...

A number of years ago I was at an event where Bob Norberg was also an attendee.  Got to chat with him for a good while.  Nice guy.  There was Beach Boys music playing in the background.  Almost on queue, during our conversation, "The Surfer Moon" (Beach Boys version) came on.  Mind you, this was 15 years before Vickie popped up with her version on YouTube -- the first time I ever heard it.  During the intro Bob goes, "Oh, looks like they have 'The Summer Moon.'"  At which point I got all excited.  And then a few seconds later, when Brian's vocals came in, he said, "Oops, just 'The Surfer Moon.'"  I said, "Bob, you're killing me!..."

Lee

I think it would be extremely difficult to cut an easel into one of these posterboard backs, without risking cutting thru the LP cover also. FWIW, here's a pic of the backs of my two US ones
( one is water damaged) side by side. The easel on the water damaged one shows more clearly...    The UK version, not shown, has a one-leg easel   ( I love Tinypic)  

    (http://i42.tinypic.com/ej8mqf.jpg)

In 1976, I asked Brian Wilson who Sheri was. Know what he said?

No, it definitely looks like it was manufactured that way. Probably rarer than the record bin version. I've seen some album cover flats with a cardboard easel glued to the back.  They look a little homemade.

Lee, just curious, was it a Beach Boys related event, or some other function and he just happened to be there?  I think Bob participated in the A&E special on Brian, but very little else from what I can tell. Not sure if he got burned by some writers or TV people who worked on the sensational movies. Of course, he could simply be a very private person and one has to respect that.  My ears perked up the other day when you mentioned the Norberg Apartment tapes.  Do you believe there may be additional Brian and Bob collaborations that have yet to surface?  I guess, never say never, right? Did you feel he was reluctant to speak about his days with Brian?  Sort of like a protective friend. Has he ever been approached to do an ESQ interview?  Or is that a silly question ;D

Here's a collecting story you'll both enjoy, and can relate to . . . Back in 1980, I had an opportunity to buy a promo copy of "School Days" but passed because it was about $100, and that was if I sealed the deal right then and there to outbid some guy from Germany (not Manfred).  This was before it was generally known, back in the Pony Express days, that it had been yanked.  I remember thinking, "Okay, these Caribou white label promos go for about ten to twelve bucks apiece. There's no way I'm spending $100+ for one. I'll just wait for another to come up, as they always do."  Famous last words.  Took several years and a few more dollars to finally land a copy of that one.  As you both probably know, the Canadian and Australian copies are much more plentiful.  New travels slow I guess .  Have you guys seen the blue Caribou label stock copy from Australia? That's a pretty cool piece. 

Ahh, the plot thickens on "If It Can't Be You."  Maybe somebody can just . . . ask Brian!  And speaking of Ron Wilson, do stock copies of his single exist on the red Columbia label?

Mikie -- you're killin' me here ;D

Small world. Steve is from Sacramento and grew up in the same area I did. He use to own a record shop on 9th St. I pulled a few good BB collectibles from his store back in the 70's and he was at the same Memorial Auditorium concert in '73 that I was, one of the last with Blondie. He posted here for awhile but suddenly just dropped out of sight - hope he's OK.

Brian's reply to my question?  "I f*cked her once, ya know."

I kid you not!

Well, now, maybe that's why Bob's relationship with Ms. Pomeroy soured. "Helps us ride in, brings us waves each day." Indeed.

I think Gary Usher hinted at that in one of Stephen McParland's books about him.

There's the story.  And then there's the story. 

Sounds like some ordinary human scuttling.  Mikie, you will want to save that nugget
for when you are interviewed for the David McCullough biography of B.W.

Hey, probably been gone over already...but Lee or others... I mentioned my love
for "Bobby Left Me".  Is that Hal on drums?  And any chance that's Brian himself
pounding out those eighth notes on the piano in the fade?  Wouldn't that be cool.   

That is brilliant  :lol

If you get more into the Starline/variations website, you'll see there's a stock Ron Wilson shown there( mine)  

And my "collector's story:  Worst loss ever:  At a store in Memphis Tennessee,Im guessing 1973-76, they had (at least) one of those Capitol Records cardboard standup LP displays, FULL OF BBs, DICK DALE, ETC LPs; all still brand new/old stock. Best I can recall, they didn't take credit cards, else I would have bought every last one. I spent what cash I had,not a lot, unfortunately, and no ATMs then, plus it was a last -minute trek and I was running late...  didn't ask on the display( no more $$) and caught my boat. When I got back to Memphis, the WHOLE STORE WAS GONE. (It was a couple of months, at least. )And the other people I knew in Memohis acted like "What store?"   Missed opportunities. Guess I should have kept a couple hundred in my socks for emergencies; maybe I still should?  

Might want to have a cardiologist nearby . . . McCullough is getting up there  ;D

The event where I met Norberg was a private event that my wife and I were fortunate to be able to attend, due to a personal friendship that is purely coincidental to my Beach Boys connections.  I'll leave it at that...

I had already been advised that he was guarded about anything to do with Brian, so we talked about his family, his career as a pilot, just about everything except Brian.  But I did have to geek out and tell him that I owned copies of the Bob & Sheri and Bob & Bobby singles!

I don't think anyone -- even Mark and Alan -- has heard the entire apartment tapes.  I think I remember that Bob played them about 30 seconds of a version of "Keep an Eye on Summer" that was similar to the "Little Deuce Coupe" demo on Hawthorne and the "In My Room" demo on the Good Vibrations box, but in the end decided to only give them one track to include.

Lee

Wouldn't mind hearing "Wich Stand", along with "Girlie" and "Hot Harp."

Yeah!!  Let's all get together and knock on his door!  Maybe if there's enough of us there, we can "convince" him to play them all...

What great news, and what a great, great thread--so many accomplished, dedicated, and uber-knowledgeable BB experts sharing a set of golden memories that I'm slightly teary-eyed to just have been on its very distant periphery. It's especially nice to see Don C. here, giving me a chance to thank him for all of the gifts of the early fanzines a number of years back--I'm still of the opinion that Don's essay on "Sloop John B." is one of the very best pieces of BB song analysis out there. It's never too late to write more, Don--until it is!!

The enthusiasm and sheer joy that radiates from these posts is very, very contagious--don't stop guys, we're really diggin' it!

I want it on vinyl

No - if you're going to do this retro thing at all, do it properly.

I want it on a hot-cut wax cylinder. Nothing else is acceptable, and if they can't be bothered to accommodate my entirely modest and reasonable demands, then they should cancel the entire project now. How useless are these people, have they no idea what we really want ?

So... will this be available to download from Amazon in the UK?

Your demands are not appropriate.

This thing should be cut into platters of solidified ReadyWhip. I want mine signed by each original performer on the track. Surely they've planned a deluxe version slog these lines? And what about I store marketing memorabilia, packed with an acetate for protection?

And branded olives?

I do honestly think it's a shame this won't be offered in a lossless format because the entire point of lossless encoding is a 1:1 copy of the source material, which this material is incredibly deserving of: I don't mean to say I can hear a difference between a file encoded in FLAC compared to MP3, just that MP3s have some data removed from them (the higher ranges that humans can supposedly not hear but I think should be preserved nonetheless) and if you were to re-encode (transcode) them, then you'd be losing even more data. This wouldn't be the case with losslessly-encoded files. Also, I'm incredibly glad "Thank Him" has finally been released!

Pure early Brian - what a great ballad.

Don Malcolm, you are clearly one of the good guys.  But gosh--dating ourselves.

[ As I recline uncomfortably here on a rusty chaise longe with my rifle and sign that says "Get off my lawn" ]

Those were amazing days, and definitely before anybody was talking about a song called "Thank Him"
(and 60 other unknown songs)

Did someone park there car on your lawn.. ? :angry  A gran torino maybe ..? ;D

How about a bag of promotional potato chips, such as those packaged with "Beach Boys Sing at a Party"?  I sometimes see the original photos/stickers from that LP for auction, but never a still-sealed bag of potato chips. I wonder what condition they'd be in decades later, if anyone kept them and never opened them?

Chris, do you have a bag of chips you can sell KittyKat? 

Those things have never surfaced and, not that anyone would, but would have to be eaten at your own risk. Somewhat more surprisingly, the counter top display that held the chips has never surfaced, and you'd think Capitol made a bunch of them. 

Roght near the top of my want list!!  Who cares about the chips? Just to have one of the, even empty, bags....  
 They were described as "tiny" correct?  One Million bags with a reproduction of the cover. GOT to be a few in  a store's stock room, somewhere. 50 bags to each counter holder
There's a picture of Brian next to a dispaly of them; in a thread here; which thread, tho...  
 
There are SO many display pieces that should be offered somewhere!  

Yup Chris, I would have bought that torn off piece of a display...

One time I met the daughter of a guy that was a Capitol rep back in the '60s.  She was in elementary school when Party! came out in late 1965, and she swore that she remembered having a class picnic and her dad providing Beach Boys Party! picnic baskets.  Now maybe it was just Party! potato chips in a plain picnic basket and her memory was fuzzy, but wouldn't it be cool to find a picnic basket with the Party! cover on it...

Lee

(http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33100000/Brian-Wilson-brian-douglas-wilson-33148792-500-332.jpg)

It would be cool to find a Capitol Rep, or anyone actually, that remembers  seeing/touching a bag(s) of the chips!

I wonder if the crisps were any good  :p

I have to say this has been one of the most enjoyable threads of the year - thanks to everyone contributing! If the group of collectors ever decides to get together somewhere for a bull session, I'll buy a few rounds if I can just sit back and listen.  :)

The bag of Party! chips is an interesting point, after seeing that one photo of them on display (which I think is the only evidence I've ever seen of them or the promo display), I also wondered if anyone ever kept a bag in their collection, or even a fan scrapbook kind of thing. The promotion itself was reported and listed in Billboard magazine if I recall, so it was a national campaign if we can assume that, and I'm sure thousands were taken home by fans buying the record at shops that had the display.

It's amazing none have actually surfaced, if even a portion of the albums sold left the store with a bag of Party chips back in the day. Not to mention the store employees who may have nicked the actual display!

If I could put on my former antique collector hat, I wanted to mention the whole sub-category of people who collect food packaging like vintage canned goods, bottles, cereal boxes, bags, displays, etc. Some go as far as to set up full "general store" type displays where they set up a scene supposed to look like a store from the 1930's or 1950's or whatever using original goods. I always loved that kind of thing, it's almost eerie sometimes in a time-machine kind of way especially when you see an entire collection of these things.

I can say that most of the value of the key items in this scene comes from the condition of the packaging and especially the labels and graphics. In most cases having the actual "sealed" product if it's a certain type of food or drink doesn't mean as much as the condition of the packaging itself. In fact most collectors would rather have an empty package or can, because many items through the years will break down inside the packaging due to various acids, oils and whatnot in the food item which can then deteriorate inside and either stain or rust or break through to partially ruin the package itself. So the value of say a Campbell's soup can from the 30's would be more if the can had been drained from the bottom and still looks unopened instead of having a full sealed can with the soup still inside. Chances are, 70 year old tomato soup would already have eaten through the can decades ago due to the acid, same with a box of cereal or anything similar.

So a bag of Party! chips, I'm going out on a limb, would be most valuable if the person had eaten them or tossed them in 1965 and kept the bag empty between pages of a scrapbook or something, the oil and grease from the chips may have ruined the actual value if it leaked through or stained the bag itself, depending on the materials used.

On a related note, last Christmas on the news they had someone who had a fruitcake still sealed in a gift can from the 1940's...if I recall they were going to open it and see if the old Johnny Carson joke about everyone re-gifting the same fruitcake was accurate and if the cake was still edible!  ;D  If a full BB Party bag is ever found maybe we should recruit volunteers to eat the chips inside.

Hey, anyone have an idea what record store that was, where the photo was taken?

A couple more collector memories:

Guerneville California. On the Russian River, just a few miles down the road from Rio Nido, where the Beach Boys met Sharon Marie in the Summer of 1963. We were always hopping up to the Russian River in the Summer and always stopped at a couple of used record shops in Guerneville. Some old hippies ran this particular one and they usually had records from psychedelic bands from the 60's and 70's. Anyway, a good friend of mine who I had a friendly competition with collecting Beach Boys records were rifling through records and I came across the Smiley Smile album. I routinely opened the sleeve to see what the condition of the record was and..........oh, wow! I'd never seen one of these before. Smiley Smile on the Capitol black rainbow label! At the time, I thought it was a misprinted label, but a cool misprint to have! Later, I found out it was only available to Capitol Records Club members in the late 60's. In VG++ condition, I think I only paid 8 bucks for it. The hippie behind the counter almost apologetically said, "I have to get 8 bucks for it because it's rare". I said, "That's fine". I paid and walked out of the place quickly without looking at anymore records. My friend stayed behind for a few minutes, probably looking for another rarity and frustrated that he didn't find SS first.

Another time (in the late 70's) I was in Castro Valley, Ca. and stopped by a used record shop. After looking through the records there, I found something I didn't have and was standing near the front counter ready to pay for it. Suddenly, an African American gentleman came through the front door with records and stacked them on the counter. Then he went out to his car and brought in another stack and put them on the counter. At first, I thought they were mostly going to be R&B and Motown and maybe some Rock & Roll stuff. While the owner of the store was distracted with another paying customer, I asked the man if it was OK to look at his records. He said, "Sure!". About half way down one of the tall stacks, I found an original "Stack-O-Tracks". It was about M-/VG++ but didn't have the booklet. I asked the guy how much he wanted for the record and he said, "Ah, make me an offer". I said, "How about $5.00?", thinking that he didn't know what he had. Sure enough, he didn't know what he had and he took my $5.00!!! After I paid him and the store owner what I owed him, the owner said to me, "Why did you do that?" I innocently replied, "What?" "As soon as a customer comes into my store with records for sale, they're in my jurisdiction and I get first choice (or something like that). Please don't come into my store again". I said, "OK". and walked away a very happy man!  I believe he knew the value of this one and it would have ended up for sale on the wall behind the counter, along with his other rare records.

Wouldn't recommend you do that: reason #1, worth much more unopened (i.e. mint) and reason #2, I've tried chips that were about a year old. Soggy cardboard.

Wasn't it Marty Heidegger who said, after biting into a very stale potato chip, "What the hell is this?"?

I have nothing to compare to the collector finds in this thread, but since the subject is early Beach Boys, I did have a great score. There is a monthly silent auction in the area, where you go into the gallery and write your bid for the item. Then at the end of the month the high bid wins the item, with a normal buyer's fee added to the sale.

So I'm walking around - it was in the past 8 years but can't recall when, and there is a plastic bag with several 45's in it hanging on one of the cork boards. They were all in picture sleeves, with the records, all original early 60's. So I pull it down, open the bag, and there was an original "Ten Little Indians" 45 with the sleeve.

I wrote my bid, it didn't seem to have much interest or any other bids at all if I recall, and came back later in the month to check and I was still the high bid. And what I bid could be called pennies on the dollar, especially since some others like a Cameo-Parkway 45 with PS were in the bag too.

I won the bag of 45's. Again, pennies on the dollar. I flipped the Ten Little Indians 45 a few months later and walked away with a nice pocketful of profit, considering what I paid for the lot.

If only that happened more often, right?  :)

I never developed a really great collection, but have some items that are special...and I reckon that's the
case for most people here. There are three singles that I especially fancy... Surfin on Candix (I paid $25 a long
time ago), the party 4-song EP, and the Kenny & Cadets single.  What's nice is that they're all in terrific
condition.  I think the K&C item was the last time I purchased a collectable...about 20 years ago.  Hey
Lee...do you remember? I'm pretty sure it came from Wayne at Rockaway...somebody had found a box
of them in a garage?  Please tell me it's genuine (pink label with blue lettering)

 

Those PARTY chips and the counter-top display must be one of the rarest promotional items Capitol ever produced for the Beach Boys.  Amazing that neither has ever surfaced.  And PARTY and "Barbara Ann" were big, big sellers.  One would think that Capitol must have made several thousand copies of them and sent them around the country.  Or, perhaps the reason why none have surfaced, is maybe Capitol didn't manufacture it at all.  Maybe it was a one-off item made by a local record store in which Brian was shown and the chips were just regular ol' bags of chips that sold back in the day for about a nickel.

It seems like many Beach Boys' collectors have met or spoken to former Capitol Records salesmen at some point.  I bought a few cool items from the son of a Capitol Records promo/sales guy whose territory included upstate NY.  That was the 2' x 3' promotional poster on cardboard stock of the guys stacked vertically upon each other. He also had a copy of the Surfin' Safari' / Ray Anthony promotional EP with hardcover, but that had already been snagged in person by John Tefteller which he later sold through one of his surf auctions (John Tefetller's Rare Records). You'd have to think that most of the stuff they squireled away has now passed onto their children who more than likely are willing, even anxious, to part with it. I suspect the 50th anniversary led to a lot of attics and basements being picked over.

Another really rare piece is the SHUT DOWN VOL 2 jigsaw puzzle.  Peter recently sold the only copy I've ever seen, not sure how many were made or, for that matter, if was a legitimate Capitol Records item. I bid what I thought was a fairly goodly sum, but apparently someone else wanted it more than I did.  Chris, was that you?  ;D

Thanks for your post GuitarFool . . . interesting stuff about folks who collect vintage foodstuffs, and the problems associated with the food itself.

Nice find Mikie.  I recall being in a small vinyl shop in Trenton and seeing the Capitol Records Club version of SMILEY SMILE for $75, and passing on it at the time.  I think I picked it up later and for less than $75, but certainly not $8.

Hey Don, that's a sweet little collection you have there -- SURFIN on Candix (which number?  331, 301, or 301 Era? -- 331 is, in my humble, the one to have as it was the first release), the PARTY EP, and the KENNY and the CADETS, which sounds like the legitimate release, especially since you bought it from Wayne.  And that garage would have been Dorinda Morgan's garage at the time, after Hite had passed away. Quite the story there.  Now's as good a time as any, to tell you how much I always enjoyed ADD SOME MUSIC and your song scrutiny columns. Some really insightful writings. A seminal publication in the evolution of our collective Beach Boys knowledge.  So, thanks for that!

The local Capitol rep here, told me that A; he didnt start until about 1970 and B; he never kept anything but classical records. I asked him what was the point of him breathing, then. 

 I din't win the Jigsaw puzzle, but the person that did is on this board, posting in this thread.  I have no clue whether it was Capitol made; I don't recall seeing any logos on it. ask the owner! 

Jim--Mine is just the "distributed by ERA" version...but a beautiful mint label--those primary colors in the art-font
lettering.  Love it.  And thanks for the kind words.  I was a kid in his twenties, no kind of writer, just in love with Brian's music.
Teaching physics in a high school and getting girl students in the typing/business classes to create those reminder
postcards so that subscribers to the fan journal would send in their 5 dollars.  (The girls actually did that during
their classes...hah).  I remember handing a copy of the journal to Dennis Wilson and having him say "Add Some Money?"
He was skeptical of someone using the Beach Boys name. I explained carefully to him that I lost money
every year.  Thank you for what financial support came in...
 

bgas...want to apologize. you asked way back about the honey's acetates.  My acetate of
"darling I'm not steppin out on you" came, I think, from Derek. Don't know how many
were available. Maybe Jim can look at his old sale lists from Derek. I seem to recall a
couple or three acetates.  Memory...sheesh. 

T'was me, Jim ;D

It's a cool item that I'd never seen before, so for that reason alone I knew I wanted it in my collection. Perhaps Peter will see this thread and will be able to elaborate on the puzzle's background.

Hey Don -

Jim's right -- Those Kenny & the Cadets 45's came from Bruce Morgan -- Hite and Dorinda's son -- when he cleaned out his parents' garage.  I think he found a box or two of the black vinyl with pink label and blue writing, and some lesser quantity of the colored vinyl.  Rockaway had some, as did Les Harris in Texas (that's where I got mine).  I think John Tefteller got some, maybe Bob Pegg, maybe Craig Moerer, and maybe others. Bruce was smart and didn't sell more than a handful to any one dealer.

Lee

DON

Nice to have a mint copy of 301 ERA.  Candix Enterprises, Inc., had a very attractive record label.  I still enjoy reading my back issues of ADD SOME MUSIC. I have some gaps in my collection, are there, after all these years, any back issues available?

MIKIE

Well, I am certainly glad it found a good home.  Sorry if I bid it up, I don't recall right now, but I suppose it went to a good cause (that is, Mr. Reum  ;D)  Does it appear to be a legitimate Capitol release? Peter?

Give me a few days, and I'll search for Derek's old lists.  Might be fun to post some of the more esoteric things and the prices!

LEE

Right you are, Bruce brought them to Murray Gershenz (Music Man Murray).  And those initial black vinyl copies made their way across the country. My wife bought me the black vinyl copy for $300 from Strider Records in the Village in NYC for our wedding in 1987! Small world -- Strider Records was owned by Bob Nougera, who I went to high school and college with, and who first got be into collecting the Beach boys back in high school with the very innocent question, "Did you know the Beach Boys recorded 'THE LORD'S PRAYER?' "  Well, I just had to have that B side.

And I tell ya, ya gotta love a woman who understands your Beach Boys' addiction. My splash wax copy did not come along until much later.

Great memory, guitarfool2002! The Billboard article can be found by searching for the November 6, 1965 issue, p.61 ("Your potato chips are coming soon"):

http://www.billboard.com/magazine-archive (http://www.billboard.com/magazine-archive)

Looking at a photo of the display, it seems the chips were set out on the counter for anyone to take, not necessarily with purchase. It suggests you buy the LP after taking the free chips, but doesn't say chips-with-purchase.
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/23vewx2.jpg)

Aside from the BEST OF, VOL 3 standup, has anyone got Capitol album covers with an easel on the back for counter display?  I have a SHUT DOWN, VOL. 2 counter display.  It has the BB front cover slick on one side, and Kay Starr's MOVIN' ON BROADWAY on the back.  The easel cuts through the Kay Starr slick.

Lee

Did the chips bag have anything actually related to the Beach Boys on them?

The only Capitol easel counter displays I have hail from the early nineties:

(http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q476/marcus1970/GoodVibrations30thanniversarypromostandgreybkg.jpg) (http://s351.photobucket.com/user/marcus1970/media/GoodVibrations30thanniversarypromostandgreybkg.jpg.html)

(http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q476/marcus1970/Makingwavesthissummercounterstandgreybkg.jpg) (http://s351.photobucket.com/user/marcus1970/media/Makingwavesthissummercounterstandgreybkg.jpg.html)

Excellent question: given that not one has surfaced since 1965, the likeliest case is that they were just regular bags of chips.

In other words, a vintage food related item collector may very well have a copy of the chips without even knowing? Assuming that the chips are just a cheaply made generic brand with no obvious Beach Boys tie in.

What free chips? That was Brian's lunch.

As-in, made with potatoes freshly dug from Murry's allotment that same morning? Hand-fried by Audree, in the kitchen at 3701 W. 119th Street, Hawthorne, and flavoured by a sprinkling of sea salt scraped from the underside of Dennis's surf board?

According to Billboard magazine, November 6, 1965 (p. 62), the chip packets reproduced the album cover art.

http://www.billboard.com/magazine-archive (http://www.billboard.com/magazine-archive)

Alright we need CSI or NCIS to zoom in on the potato chip bag, convert it to 3-D, and rotate it so that we can see the Party! art.  After all, they can do it on TV!   ;D

The Great Potato Chip Bag Mystery deepens . . . . Thanks MFP for the link to the Billboard article. 

So, Capitol manufactures one million bags of chips with the Party album graphics and, so far, not one has surfaced? That just seems to defy the odds. Could it be they were all eaten? Maybe Bruce Johnston squirreled away a bag or two that are resting comfortably in his Beach Boys storage locker!  With the albums's 50th anniversary not too far off, maybe Capitol/EMI will release a Deluxe Edition with all the other tracks recorded for the album and recreate the great potato chip give-away! 

Lee, I do not have any album cover easels except Best Vol 3. I seem to recall seeing that Shut Down easel.  Was it from Rockaway?  Funny how they dissed poor Kay Starr in the process. Somewhat off topic, but anyone else except me confounded by limited typing skills and the proximity of the letter "i" to the letter "u" on the keyboard when typing Shut Down, resulting in an entirely different album!?  That CSI zooming in feat can only be accomplished while removing your sunglasses and proclaiming, in a breathy, melodramatic voice, "Well, Alex, it looks like our John Doe liked potato chips."  And, like all medical examiners do, Alex would be leaning over the gluttinous potato chip corpse, while wearing a silk blouse with a plunging neckline and a come hither look. Apologies to UK readers who may not be familiar with the comically overacting David Caruso.

Jim, I think it was from Rockaway.  No idea how much I paid for it, or how long I've had it.  Interestingly, the SHUT DOWN cover is on the wrong side -- as in it opens to the left.  And the spine of the cover is for Kay Starr.  So this was originally a Kay Starr album cover that Capitol re-purposed into an easel, and then stuck a cover slick on the back.

Lee

Me! Me!  ME!!!!   The ones I have:

All Summer Long  with Nat King Cole LP as the Easel side; Double Easel with hanging punchouts.  (It's a Cole cover/spine w/ ASL slick on the back)

The rest of the Capitols are posterboard/covers thickness but no spine printing ( except the Maffitt/Davies, which is a BBs Cover)

Good Vibrations  St-442  Blank White Back with a double easel and hangers added to the backon posterboard( just the easel area, not the surround)  Slick on posterboard
  
As an "oddity" I have a Maffit/Davies Lp " The Rise and Fall Of Honesty" with BBS-Best Of Vol 2 as the Easel side

These three have blank white backs.  Easelswith punch outs at the bottom and top edges for hanging the cover.  

Surfin Safari   Double Easel     Slick on posterboard

Shut Down 2  Double Easel     Slick on posterboard

Little Deuce Coupe  Single Easel     Slick on posterboard

 ;D  That's the one! The one photo and Billboard are so far the only examples of this promotion - and since the Billboard PR release says that they were actual "Beach Boys Party" bags, it makes it more amazing that none have been found in a fan's collection or scrapbook from back in the day.

Further examining my unorganized storeroom I'll offer two more. One I've had in the Media section previously, and the other a floor standup, not counter display.  

From 2000/EMI Music there is a

Damn. 1,000,000 bags of chips, and 20,000 counter units - and seemingly not a single one survived.

I have a similar display of the Beach Boys Party! album cover slick pasted on the back of The Beatles' Second Album jacket, with the stand-up easel cuts on the Beatles front cover.  It was still on the wall of an old record store in Houston when I found it in the 70s or 80s.  I think the sales clerk gave it to me when I asked for it (I think I found the "Guess I'm Dumb" 45 there on the same visit).

I tried to clear up the photo of Brian with the Party display, tried a higher res version, but can't get much more on those pesky chip bags that would get us closer to more info. But check out some other details in that record shop, maybe someone with a keen eye will spot other things to help ID it even further.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianchips400dpi_zpsd1b9e2ba.jpg)

Top left of the photo: The "Little Girl I Once Knew" single with picture sleeve is on display.

Top right of the photo: That is a KFWB 98 record survey tacked to the wall. The DJs' photos are in the left column.

Center above the telephone: Billboard top albums chart.

Directly behind Brian's head: Looks like stacks of blank tape reels.

What paper is Brian reading? It's not KRLA Beat, none of the issues line up with those pages. It *could be* KFWB "Hitline", it could also be a copy of "Melody Maker" from the UK. Any guesses?

The Party display looks like only the chips were part of the official Capitol promo material at this shop. The albums themselves are in a generic wire display rack.

It caught my eye that the Party album seems to be in that rack in front of other albums. Also suspicious that the "Little Girl" single is so prominent, almost like both Party and Little Girl were deliberately staged to be visible in the photo, along with the chips.

So is this a Capitol promo photo? The two current BB's items are prominent, that's why I'm thinking that.

Any idea what store this could have been? Wallich's perhaps? It has to be a SoCal shop, if not an LA shop, I'm guessing because of the KFWB survey on the wall. Shops outside LA would have had their local station's list instead.

I tried to get a more clear shot of the chips bags too, but alas...you can't see anything on the actual bags.
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianchips2_zpsb98e3f2d.jpg)

Adding another layer to this: Does anyone know where these photos came from, or what they were for? The photo of Brian with the Party display shows him wearing the same clothes as the "bookstore" photo:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianbook_zpsbb18ac22.jpg)

Was a photog following Brian around the store or stores this day in 1965? Any further info? I'm 99.999% sure the photos were taken the same day, which would also date the bookstore photo more specifically if it hasn't been done already.

To add to that:  
Those with the know-how or super eagle eyes. (Can I use that expression?)--  
What does it say on the wire rack to Brian's right;  
Just for grins, what is the LP behind The Little Girl 45;  
If that's a telephone, can you zoom in to see the writing on the phone;  
what is the flyer, and the writing on it, just below the KFWB Survey;  
Wallich's is probably the best choice, close to Capitol and all, anybody ever there and remember the store?  
Anyone have a 1965 LA yellowpages, to check for bookstores close to Wallich's/Capitol-- 

Not that it'll help much, if at all, but the date of the photo would have to be on or later than 11/22/65 (when "TLGIOK" was released), but (probably) not after 12/20/65 (when "B-f-A" was released - wouldn't it make sense to have the single pulled from the latest album on show ?).


Die Lustigen Weiber, that is, a German version of "The Merry Wives Of Windsor", an opera in three acts by Otto Nicolai to a German libretto by Salomon Hermann.

(http://cover-music.de/bilder/ebay/2013/PICT8008957.jpg)

I've gotta think Occam's razor on this one -- which story is easier to believe? That 1 million Party chips bags were printed, and there is not a single one surviving in the BB collecting world. (Not only that, but no one recalls seeing this kind of bag.) Or, that maybe Cpaitol was feeding some puffery to Billboard and later found out it would be way too expensive to print up the custom chips, so just sent some generic ones.

My money's on number two.

Just noticed - same cover photo, but slightly different title layout.

Call me anything you like, but don't say I'm not thorough.   ;D

(http://www.apesound.de/out/pictures/generated/product/1/665_665_75/nicolai.jpg)

Nice Les!  Beatles and Beach Boys on the same stand-up!  That takes the prize -- until the SMiLE stand-up surfaces!

Lee

Just a thought to check on about where the photos in book store were takin.. In 50"s thu 90"s there was a book store on Hollywood blvd on the north side of the street that sold new + used books that had an upstairs section like in that photo .. Wallichs didn't have an upstairs if I remember right.. That book store used to sell records also but not a ton of them.. Bookstore was between western + la brea on Hollywood blvd.. When I saw that pic I knew it was that bookstore.. Hip place to go back then.. I was in there plenty of times.. And remember BW lived in the area for a time..Bw spent a lot of time hanging in area.. He used to eat at Pioneer chicken on sunset blvd for GOD"s sake !!.. I believe with my heart that is where the photo was takin...  I haven't been to Hollywood in at least 13 yrs so I don't know if its still there.. There has been subway construction . Its [possible its gone but it was /is a great book store.. Hope someone checks on this I have hunch im right or at least close to it.. I grew up in the area so im hopin my hunch is right..

There is a picture in Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMiLE!  of the Al standup and the Mike standup flanking the Smiley Smile standup.  I'll have to see if I can dig it out.

Lee

Seems that whoever was charged with typing the labels for the Shut Down Vol. 2 acetate decided to give the album title a different meaning too:

(http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q476/marcus1970/side1.jpg) (http://s351.photobucket.com/user/marcus1970/media/side1.jpg.html)

Lee...wow, what a memory.  I just checked the Dom book... yes, the Smiley Smile standup with Al on left
and Mike on right.  Based on what bgas showed above, it would seem the outer two pieces connected
to the middle album piece.  As Spock would say, "fascinating"

Regarding the hi-resolution scan of the photo of Brian browsing near the Party chips . . . A few things pop out. Obviously the Party album (released November 8, 1965),  "The Little Girl I Once Knew" picture sleeve (released November 22, 1965), and the KFWB Fabulous Forty Survey hanging on the wall.  By now KFWB had stopped distributing the smaller surveys which customers could take home with them and began delivering one chart per store .  If you wanted the chart, you had to convince the record store owner to give it to you when the week was over and the new survey was delivered. Some store owners were more generous than others.

The magazine Brian is reading is KFWB /98 Hitline distributed every Wednesday to record stores and available for free. The upper right hand corner of the back page had a recurring column called "What's Happening!" written by one of the KFWB Good Guy disc jockeys.  I have a fairly good collection, but not all, of the KFWB/98 Hitline from late 1965 and early 1966.  Although I could not find the exact issue, by comparing the back covers, it is NOT one of these issues:

December 1, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 26)
December 8, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 27)
December 15, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 28)
December 22, 1965 (Vol 1 , No. 29)
December 29, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 30) 
January 5, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 31)
January 12, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 32)
January 19, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 33)
February 16, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 37)
February 23, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 38)
March 2, 1966  (Vol 1, No. 39)
March 9, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 40)
March 16, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 41)


So, assuming the photo was taken to promote the album, single, and chips, and would have appeared relatively close to their release dates, it seems likely the issue Brian is reading is one of these:

January 26, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 34
February 2, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 35
February 9, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 36)

I suppose it could also be November 24, 1965 (Vol 1, No. 25)

November 24, 1965, was the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and two days after "The Little Girl I Once Knew" was reportedly released.  This might make more sense since the counter-top display seems full of bags of chips (or is that bgas of chips?). And, let's face it, how long could free bags of potato chips have lasted in your average record store?  A few days?  The printing deadline and turn around for KFWB/98 Hitline was probably no more than a day or two, and they were hand-delivered to record stores in the LA area. And it makes sense that Capitol, while the guys were on tour n the Midwest, would have enlisted Brian to help promote the Party and chip campaign in November 1965, rather than late January/early February 1966.

So, my vote for when the photo was taken is November 22 or 23, 1965.   

 

BTW, if that is a wall phone behind Brian (with the circular dial behind his left hand)...where is the hand piece?
Could it be that there is a guy sitting on the floor behind Brian, making a phone call?  If so, he would clearly
have important information. 

Guitar Fool -- I didn't see your excellent run down of the items of interest in the photo. I didn't even see the phone!

Andrew -- How did you pull that album cover out your hat? 

That Smiley Smile Al and Mike stand-up has to be off-the-chart rare!

Of course, Brian is wearing a trench coat (raincoat) and is carrying an umbrella, so a check of the weather in LA circa November 22 or 23, or the LA Times, might add another piece to the puzzle.

Jim - I'm good, what can I say ? Modest, too.   ::)

I've told Chris that there's a guy in rural North Carolina that has the Mike stand-up.  He looked up my number and called me to ask me about it.  Of course I offered to buy it, but the problem is that he's a huge Mike Love fan -- so much so that he went out and found one of those USA jackets that Mike used to wear back in the '90s, and wore it backstage to a concert so that he could show it to Mike.

He was telling me about it, and I said, "But it's not a Beach Boys tour jacket; it's just a jacket with USA on the sleeve..."

OK, Smart Alecs. When and where was this picture with the class/girl scouts taken? Could be a radio station or recording studio. Could have been taken very late November (released 27th) or December, '65.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=15704.0

No Idea; But I'd like to have more of those Gold Awards!! ( you can never have enough BBs Golds... )

David Beard identified the studio as Capitol:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15704.msg372188.html#msg372188 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15704.msg372188.html#msg372188)

Yeah, and I think you've mentioned the LLVS pic previously also, but I tend to forget!  A guy in rural NC...  think you tried to identify him and see if I could talk him out of the standup, but it wasn't enough help locating him. ( darn)  

Jim, I checked completed ebay listings for January 26, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 34), February 2, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 35), and February 9, 1966 (Vol 1, No. 36), but none of those back pages correspond to the issue Brian is reading. I also checked my copy of the November 17, 1965 issue, but that doesn't line up either. It could very well likely be that November 24 issue you mentioned.

Been skipping this thread for a few days, thought it was about some show in 63  :lol

Thread title needs to be changed to include the fact it's a new BB release.

Very excited about this this!  ;D

METAL

Good detective work, the completed eBay listing thing; I think we may have a winner.  November 24, 1965, certainly seems the most plausible date of the issue of KFWB/98 Hitline Brian is scanning, making the date of the photo  probably November 22 or 23, right after the release of "The Little Girl I Once Knew" and with plenty of chips to be eaten!

Only on the Smiley Smile Message Board could a thread about a new compilation of vintage Beach Boys and BB related recordings disintegrate into archeological dig for a bag of potato chips!  :lol

But seriously, the "Party!" chips discussion is beyond fascinating; these are the threads I come here for!  Also excited for "The Big Beat 1963"; I've finally broken my prejudice about  buying albums on iTunes, so this is a no-brainer purchase for me.  Interested in the Beatles and Dylan ones too.

http://us.7digital.com/artist/various-artists/release/the-big-beat-1963

Hey, sorry to, uhh....be on topic with this.....but.....the Beatles copyright grab thing was released TODAY in Europe, and is scheduled for tomorrow for the US....and reports are that the set was taken down within a few hours. The thought is that they kept the music available for the absolute minimal amount of time required to qualify for the 20-year extension. So when this stuff gets out, grab it IMMEDIATELY. I don't know what's going on in this Beach Boys set, but word on the street is that the Beatles set  -- which has nothing unbooted -- is a major sound upgrade to the best sounding boots.

EDIT: Hmm....Big Beat 1963 is already up in the iTunes store! Bought a digital iTunes gift card for 20% off thru dealmac.com and am downloading it now!

I ask again - does ANYONE know how to get this thing OUTSIDE of the US? All of the links shared so far are to US-based on-line retailers who will sell you and ship *physical* product to addresses outside the US, but not downloads.

It's driving me crazy - any Google search I do takes me back to a US retailer, who won't sell me the stuff as I'm in the UK.

WHO WANTS MY MONEY AND HOW DO I GIVE IT TO THEM?????

Me too!!!!

It will be interesting to see if "Big Beat 1963" stays up, as apparently the Beatles thing was indeed already taken down in the territories it was made available in, and apparently may not even ever be made available in the UK or US (too early to say for sure, but it's not looking good at the moment).

Just downloaded "Big Beat 1963", hoping it will be worth the $12. Unfortunately, the record labels are apparently forcing us to second guess how long this stuff will be available, so there's no time to waffle on whether to get this thing. I dunno though, the demo of "I Do" I'm listening to sounds pretty nifty. I think I'm already glad I got it.  :lol

Can't buy if from the UK, on amazon US or 7digital, not on iTunes. Great, way to go Capitol.

It's really bad with Beatles fans. Over at the Hoffman board, I think some Beatles fans have already tossed their collections out the window in protest.  :lol

The phrase "get a life", or possibly "grow a pair" springs to mind.  ;D

I was gonna say that Thank Him is no better than what I already had, but actually it is now that I listened to it. Different pitch too.

amazon.com:

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Any Brits received their MiC Disc 3 yet?  Or is a pattern starting to develop? (Or am I already starting to sound paranoid?)

"Thank Him" is in the exact same key, actually.

sdgahsdgjashdjh  :-\ me want it, why me Brit?

This is so weird...this is a EUROPEAN copyright thing, right? Then why is this collection only showing up in the US so far???

I'm from Brazil and I purchased Big Beat 1963 from us7digital.
I download Tunnelbear, a software with US proxy, so I created a free account, installed it and connected through an US proxy.
It's very simple. Once I conected I could buy the release from us7, and paid with my credit card from Brazil.
AGD and everybody, try it, it's safe.

Thanks for that - I'll try. But our point is, we shouldn't have to resort to such subterfuge.

 Man, I've always wanted to believe in this promotion! A bag of Party chips has been on my wants list, seemingly forever. ( 30 years?)
Ask almost any long-time BBs collector  if they've ever seen a bag or the display piece (Not just a photo), and the answer is always  a resounding, NO.
Based on the evidence, my supposition is, A huge fake by Capitol.   Capitol staged this shot with Brian to support their claims they were actually sending out 1 million bags. In reality, there was one display made, with, MAYBE, 50 small bags for the photoshoot. I wish I did, but I don't see a better explanation for the lack of bags. 
 For comparison; Capitol commisioned 1 million Band-aids from Curad to be used as promotion for the LP; while I think getting the band-aids from Curad, might be less involved than potato chips from ??, the band-aids are EASY to find. I've even got one( still sealed), and I don't collect Beatles. ( showing both sides)

     (http://i39.tinypic.com/rt3k8l.jpg)       (http://i42.tinypic.com/555yli.jpg)

The whole LP is now on Spotify. This "Ballad of Old Betsy" demo is really cool. Always loved this song but it's such an obvious re-write of Surfer Girl!

Hey, "Little Dirt Bike" is on there! Ha Ha! And regarding the "I Do" demo, that's been booted, right? SOT or one of those? Seems obviously slower than the released version.

Not in Europe, apparently.  Got a link?

Thanks for posting that - I had no idea Capitol issued a "Help" band-aid until seeing this photo! Not entirely out of line with some of the bizarre promo materials through the years, but that is a cool piece to have.

I have to admit, the "fake" theory is looking like as much of a possibility as any other explanation at this point. Simple logic would say if 1 million of anything were made, at least one would have surfaced in the past 40 years of BB's collecting and determined fans actually looking for them or at least keeping an eye out for one popping up for sale.

The cost...I didn't post this before but it ties in...consider how much it cost to design, manufacture, and create the bags alone with custom graphics, then contract a chip maker to cook and package them in a special factory run, then ship them across the country to give them away...would it add up financially or logistically?

And if they were doing some deceptive dodging, with a production run they could always tell regional salesmen and reps who may ask "where are those chips?" that there was a problem with the production run, the bags didn't meet the quality standards, we had a delay with the chip manufacturer...etc.

And I can't help but think that at least one Capitol sales rep or regional guy or even someone in the "Tower" would have an unused bag from a sample or test run of the item.

Intriguing.

\

The Beatles' Bootleg Recordings 1963 is up on iTunes today.

It's back up after it went down... AT £35. WHAT.

If they pull it from sale, just illegally download it.   Allah doesn't give a crap.

Yeah.. So the proxy method did not work for me (from Norway).

The 7digital store has 320 bitrate mp3s while iTunes has 256 AAC and Amazon does VR.

Got mine in Canada from Xbox music....

Anyone know the source for Summer Moon?  Acetate?
Seems the roughest of all these songs..

Maybe read the WHOLE thread?

bgas:

is that the usual sound quality for an acetate?  I don't think I've ever heard one!..  CJ

Acetate sound quality depends on how often it's been played. After 20-25, maybe 30 spins, you're pretty much hearing nothing but surface noise. For comparison, "Teeter-Totter Love" on the Smile box is also sourced from an acetate, the difference being I don't think Jasper played his copy too much.

Hi CJS

Let me speak, if I might for just a moment, for my "Smiley-Faced" challenged friend  :-\. . . it is the roughest sounding track as it was taken from the acetate made May 9, 1963, and stored, rather lovingly, all these years by Vickie Kocher Hale, the Vickie in Bob & Vickie.  See the excellent interview with Vickie by Lee Dempsey in an earlier issue of ESQ.

And CJS, your answer can be found by clicking the link in page 1, post 1:
http://www.examiner.com/article/brian-wilson-s-the-big-beat-1963

Is this being released in lossless anywhere?

Yeah, that's something , isn't it?  You check back, see where the thread started, READ, and VOILA!  

Now Chris, if you're not careful and don't start using a few  :) , at least sparingly, now and then, people are going to confuse you with that legendary curmudgeon . . . .

On a serious note, I'm really enjoying THE BIG BEAT, neat little early Christmas present, so once again, thanks to Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Lee Dempsey, David Beard, Vickie Kocher Hale, Bob Hanes, Derek Bill, and the Hawthorne Hotshots.

Vinyl seven or twelve-inch for Record Store Day April 2014?  Probably won't happen, but what's life without dreamin' . . . 

You didn't get the promo vinyl??

All the above... thanks for the info on acetates...   enjoying this release immensely.....
CJ

I'm enjoying the new collection. With the exception of "The Summer Moon", the sound quality ranges from acceptable to excellent. In this collection, we discover the real reason why the instrumental tracks for The Beach Boys' versions of "Our Car Club" & "The Surfer Moon" were played entirely by sessionmen: The backing tracks were originally intended for other artists. Brian obviously needed songs to fill the "Surfer Girl" album, and these instrumental tracks were re-worked into Beach Boys recordings.(Yes, I know that Brian did all of the voices on "The Surfer Moon"). Before the attack dogs on this forum have another go at me, I'm not inferring that the two songs are filler, but merely that the two songs gave Brian the amount of songs needed to complete the "Surfer Girl" album.

Has it already been established that the version of Surfer Moon on this download is inferior to the version on Youtube?  Sounds like a lot more acetate surface noise on the download. Or maybe it's my source? All of the rest of the tracks are OK.

Good observations Phil.  Some more info on those two songs:

1) Both sessions were subsidized by Aldon Music (aka Nevins-Kirshner).  The AFM sheet for "The Summer Moon" lists NEVINS-KIRSHNER at the top, and my "Rabbit's Foot" acetate says ALDON MUSIC on it.  The thing connecting Aldon to Brian?  Lou Adler.  Lou was in charge of west coast operations for Aldon.  According to this article http://www.history-of-rock.com/kirshner.htm (http://www.history-of-rock.com/kirshner.htm), on April 12, 1963 Kirshner sold Aldon to Screen Gems-Columbia, with Kirshner, Nevins, and Adler becoming employees of Colpix at that time. Coincidentally, I also have a Bell Sound acetate of "Gonna Hustle You" (Jan and Dean version) that was given to the late Jeff Deutch by Don Kirshner!  On the label the title is written as "When Summer Comes."

2) Victoria Hale says that she was offered "Rabbit's Foot" as an option to record, but as Jim Murphy pointed out she chose "The Summer Moon."

Go back and take a look at the multi-page rambling letter from Murry to Brian that surfaced in the Hard Rock collection (pretty sure there's a thread on this board with scans of the whole thing).  One of Murry's rants is about "Lew Adler" [sic] and "Alden" [sic] trying to steal his songs.

Lee

Mikie,

The cassette tape that Victoria used to post her YouTube clip actually was made over 20 years ago.  She played the acetate a bunch of times after that -- basically wearing it out.  I suppose Mark could have used the cassette as the source, but a 20 year-old cassette would have had its own issues.

The acetate has two sides, with different vocal takes on each side.  Mark literally arranged for a Victoria to carry the acetate to a transfer house on Thursday, and the master was due by end of day Friday.  I think with a little more time he may have been able to stitch a version together using both sides -- unless the other side is in worse shape.


Lee

I'd love to hear these Beach Boys and Beatles sets, but I refuse to use itunes. I guess I'm to "old school" for all of the "digital only"  releases.

Think you'll find that's been common knowledge in the BB fan world for many years.

While The Beatles set is exclusive to iTunes, The Beach Boys set is exclusive to Amazon.com

The Big Beat is on iTunes as well

Anyluck for the British in us other than a Poxy Proxy?

Well, they didn't want me to buy it so I didn't buy it..   but good collection!

Same here – what a terrific collection… If it's made available legit in the UK, I'll still shell out for it.

I want to buy it, but can't. Of course, it's not made available in the UK and I get the chance of an illegal download, so be it. They've shot themselves in the foot. Again.

According to Dave, Hal Blaine joined The Beach Boys in the studio to record "Our Car Club" ("Rabbit's Foot" at the time), meaning he and Carl played the guitars on the track.

Unknown,
at this stage,
of proceedings

You go!, Girl!

I totally agree with your stance - iTunes (especially) blows.

I forgot about that Craig -- you're right; Hal -- and Steve Douglas -- supplemented the guys on that session.

I just had a "Eureka" moment -- Mark Linett told me that the Gold Star tracking session tape for "Rabbit's Foot" is missing -- all they have is the mono mixdown of the track on the vocal tape.  If Aldon Music paid for the tracking session, then Aldon would have owned the tape from the tracking session.  Makes you wonder if it's in the Columbia / Screen Gems vault -- or in Lou's archives.  Or (most likely) thrown away.

Lee

LEE

Excellent post regarding Lou Adler as the West Coast representative of Aldon Music, owned by Al Nevins and Don Kirshner.  And thanks for sharing that information about your RABBIT'S FOOT acetate. Cool stuff.

Adler, of course, was also managing Jan & Dean, and it is likely Adler's introduction to Brian came through Jan.  Adler was interested in signing Brian to Aldon's already impressive stable of songwriters, most of them on the East Coast in the famed Brill Building on Broadway -- Neil Sedaka and Howard Greenfield; Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, and, of course, Gerry Goffin and Carole King, whose THE LOCOMOTION inspired Brian and Usher to write THE REVO-LUTION in summer 1962. So Adler, on behalf of his boss, Kirshner, was looking for songwriting talent on the West Coast to build their publishing catalog and really wanted to sign Brian as a contract songwriter.

In 1958, Kirshner was a twenty-four-year-old struggling songwriter in New York when he formed Aldon after his first taste of success helping Bobby Darin place SPLISH  SPLASH with Ahmet Ertegun's Atlantic Records, a #3 hit in June 1958.  Kirshner partnered with Nevins, who was forty-three years old at the time, because of Nevins' experience and contacts in the NY music world.  Nevins had scored a Top 20 hit in 1949 with TWILIGHT TIME as part of a trio called The Three Suns, which the Platters later took to #1 in April 1958. It was all business between Kirshner and Nevins, and Al was not as hungry as Don.  Kirshner realized the money was in the publishing.  He also formed Dimension Records in summer 1962 expressly for his own artists such as Carole King. The aggressive record guys saw the financial benefits of owning every piece of the music pie -- songwriting, publishing, producing, recording studio, record company, pressing plant, and distribution.

It seems likely Brian met with Adler and Jan, probably Dean, as well, sometime during the SURFIN' USA album sessions, roughly mid-January to mid-February 1963. This may have been the meeting at which SURF CITY traded hands. It is unclear when Adler was aware of Kirshner's negotiations with Screen Gems-Columbia Pictures for the sale of Aldon Music for $2 million. News of the impending sale was in Billboard on newsstands March 16, 1963 (issue dated March 23, 1963), which, allowing for printing and mailing deadlines, means the article was written by March 13, 1963.  Brian saw an opportunity to place some of his compositions with an extremely influential East Coast music publisher and the company that published and recorded one of his early influences, Carole King. But Brian wisely did not sign on as a contract songwriter with Aldon. When Screen Gems-Columbia Pictures bought Aldon, the stable of songwriters were part of the sale. Although he stopped short of signing as a contract tuneslinger, Brian did give Adler a number of songs to publish, including some surprising titles -- THE SUMMER MOON (later, the Beach Boys' THE SURFER MOON), RABBIT'S FOOT (which, as everyone knows, evolved into OUR CAR CLUB),  YOUR SUMMER DREAM, HIDE GO SEEK, KEEP AN EYE ON SUMMER, and SHE RIDES WITH ME.  All of these songs are currently published by Screen Gems-EMI Music, Inc., the successor to Screen Gems-Columbia Pictures, which, in turn, was the successor to Aldon. With song detective work you always trace the publisher through a myriad of name changes and sales to typically larger publishing companies.

Of course, what is interesting about all this is that Brian had written these tunes, at least as sketches, as early as March 1963, and probably earlier.  SHE RIDES WITH ME, later gifted to Paul Petersen, was co-written by Roger Christian who, interestingly, retained his fifty-percent share of the music publishing (now owned by Universal Music Careers).

On the subject of acetates, I forgot to mention that, although I do not generally collect acetates, thank God for some remaining sanity  ;D, I do have one that I bought a few years back . . . YOUR SUMMER DREAM on a one-sided seven-inch with a large 45 rpm hole.  What is interesting is that it was manufactured at MBS Recording Studios at 228 South Wabash in Chicago.  At the 6:00 o'clock position, the label reads, in two lines of type, "YOUR SUMMER DREAM" / By: The Beach Boys.  The song was reportedly recorded July 16, 1963, so I'm theorizing the acetate may have been made a day or two later when the guys flew into Chicago to start their second, lengthier Mid-West tour on July 19, 1963.  Of course, SURFER GIRL b/w LITTLE DEUCE COUPE was released as a single just days later (July 22, 1963), so perhaps Brian was considering releasing YOUR SUMMER DREAM as their next single or its B side, or he simply wanted to hear a test pressing of the song.  Assuming Brian was the motivating force behind the manufacturing of the acetate, it would also reinforce that Brian did indeed start the tour, although he apparently returned to LA by August 4, was replaced by Al, and then returned to the tour before the fateful drive from Chicago to Brooklyn.  

"Summer Moon" is what I meant. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess Mark thought the acetate sounded better than the cassette or he was unfamiliar with the cassette source. But I think I'll replace the "released" version in this set with the 20 year old version on Youtube. Hope nobody minds.....

MIKIE

I agree with you about THE SUMMER MOON.  To my ears, the youtube version, which Lee advises is from the cassette tape, sounds better.  If Alan and Mark only had a bit more time to work on this project.

Since the "foot apparel makers" are already hard at work with the Beatles collection released yesterday, it may be wise for Capitol/EMI to release a physical CD if, for no other reason, than to undercut the black market profiteers

As an addendum to my above post re: Aldon Music.  Murry takes a fair amount of abuse, some of it warranted I reckon, but he was spot on in that 1965 letter. If Brian had signed with Aldon, his contract would have been sold to Screen Gems-Columbia Pictures just a month or two later. And the music publishing for songs written within the terms of that contract would have been owned by Screen Gems.  Of course, that does not come close to making up for what Murry did with Sea of Tunes just four years after that letter.  As for Murry's actions, was it shortsightedness (The Good), greed (The Bad), or passive-aggressive retribution (The Ugly)?

Excellent info all around, thank you! I just wanted to add a few quick things about Nevins and the Three Suns.

The Three Suns actually wrote "Twilight Time" as an instrumental and had a hit with it in 1944, a big hit. Like some other notable major hits in that era, White Christmas comes to mind, after the war they rerecorded it in '47 and it continued to chart and sell. It was their signature song, and they not only rerecorded it again in the next decade but they made a lot of money with it, one of the reasons Al Nevins (a guitarist by trade) had enough in the bank to do what he would eventually do with setting up businesses and whatnot.

The Platters version was another monster hit, and words had been added, but it was still a revenue stream for the group as songwriters.

Not only that, but The Three Suns were the toast of New York for a time as a live act, and had a residency at a prominent NYC club where they were so popular it was actually tough to get in to see them perform. They were paid extremely well as a live act, for that time.

So they were popular and successful, and Nevins would soon take up the behind-the-scenes roles like A&R/production and all of that, which led him to Don Kirshner. Later the Suns started getting into "Hi Fi" experimental studio stuff which is how the 90's lounge/swank/exotica revival found them, and their records were included on comps and collections like Capitol's "Ultra Lounge" discs.

So Nevins did have the clout and connections and most importantly the money on hand when Kirshner teamed up with him, but I'd also add Nevins in his 40's at that time had already "made it" in the business and wouldn't have been as proactive or aggressive as Kirshner, acting more as the bankroll and the clout than an actual hustling song salesman like Donny or Lew trying to hustle their way up.

Al Nevins died relatively young, in 1965.

Just an aside: I know the man's resume and everything, but I still carry a negative opinion of Kirshner and the way he did business, based on my status as a major fan of The Monkees and knowing their dealings with him. His methods produced results, though, and the biz is all about making money.  :)

 

Lil' bit more background info: on 12/18/63, "If It Can't Be You", "Funny Boy" and "Rock & Roll Bash" (? same as "First Rock & Roll Dance" ?) were copyrighted along with three other tracks, including "Back Home" (recorded 6/14/63).

GUITARFOOL --

Wow! Thanks for that great background information about Al Nevins. Neat stuff. I didn't realize THE THREE SUNS were such an in-demand live act in NYC in the 1940s.

I guess Kirshner, like so many of the record guys, especially from that era, are a difficult breed to categorize.  They did a lot of good, promoted and published many talented artists and good songs, but they were always looking out for themselves, often to the severe detriment of the songwriters and artists. The dark, soul-deadening side of the music business.

ANDREW

Yes, the other two, as I'm sure you know, were "Part of Me" and "No Big Thing" (the latter reportedly intended for the Honeys and for which a popular songwriters contract was completed November 8, 1963).  Since they did not appear on THE BIG BEAT, I imagine these two songs were never recorded. The same for "Hello Operator," a Brian and Mike tune for which a popular songwriters contract was also completed November 8, 1963 (probably a batch filing), with Ocean Music, Brian's then-recently formed music publishing company to handle his outside productions after he formed Brian Wilson Productions on October 28, 1963.  Brian was quite the busy guy in 1963.

I had the same thought about "First Rock and Roll Dance," although "Rock and Roll Bash" is credited to Brian, Bob Norberg, and Vickie Kocher.  Vickie recalled being with Brian and Bob in their apartment when "Bash" was composed, and making a small contribution to the song for which they kindly provided a co-writing credit. It would seem, but I would need to get this confirmed, that Vickie's contribution was lyrical since she is not a musician. Maybe "Dance" and "Bash" are indeed the same song and what was released yesterday is the instrumental track for which they never got around to recording the vocals. If that is the case, "Dance"/"Bash" probably dates to around May 1963.

I'm not sure why, but I just love this kind of stuff . . . 

+1, Jim.

This is a great thread - One of the key reasons I come here is to read this sort of info and hardcore fan recollections.  It's my favourite way to learn a lot more about Brian and the boys and the broader recording industry in general.

Thanks all!  :bow

This kind of thread is almost as enjoyable as the music being discussed itself. I wish I could contribute something utter than banal attempts at humour but I can't … this is class info and I'm very humbly appreciative.

Discussions like this are why I love coming here. I can't add anything either, but it's great to read! Adding my thanks to all who have contributed!

This... THIS is why I do what I do.  :bow

Threads like this hooked me on SS in first place.

Appreciate the time taken by Mr. Murphy on this thread. The #1 poster here in my book.

Yes, Jim, youre the Beast! 

What is so neat about this Board, and something I have loved about it for a long time, although I seldom posted, is that we all visit here for really just one reason.  The music of the Beach Boys. Whether we are long-time fans, serious collectors, enthusiasts, casual fans, regardless of what country we hail from, it doesn't matter.  We are all celebrating the same thing.  A quintessential garage band that for more than fifty years now has created an unparalleled body of work and a musical legacy that will live forever. We have in common a great love and deep respect for this band of three brothers, a cousin, and a couple of pals. Do they have their human foibles?  You betcha'!  Have they dropped the ball once or twice?  Absolutely. Can they frustrate you with missed opportunities?  Oh, yeah.  But through it all, through the highs and lows, no other band has created such a satisfying musical journey, with so many twists and turns and interesting side roads. So that's what brings us together from all parts of the globe.  And that, I think, is extraordinary. Where else in the Beach Boys universe can one visit, chat a little, and be entertained and educated by knowledgeable Beach Boys' historians/collectors/scholars/authors/fans like Andrew G. Doe, Peter Reum, Ian Rusten, Jon Stebbins, David Beard, Lee Dempsey, Mikie, Don Cunningham, Craig Slowinski, Eric Aniversario, David and Carrie Marks, MetalFlakePaint, GuitarFool, John Manning, and bgas (who knows more about Beach Boys' collectibles than I thought was humanly possible. Bgas, I know, deep down in your heart, you meant that lovingly  ;D ), and the list goes on (apologies for any oversights). Each contributing a unique perspective on the band and the music we all love. Welcoming new fans and posters, answering routine questions, sharing news, and what a year or two it has been, examining and analyzing fifty-year-old demo recordings, and delving into arcane matters like forty-eight-year-old bags of potato chips. And, in the process, learning about and celebrating the music of the Beach Boys. That is pretty remarkable.

So, at this time of year, when the world slows down a bit, and we take some stock of our lives, grateful for the people and the music that bring us joy, let's remind each other just how special is this place called Smiley Smile.          

Very nicely Expressed; have you ever thought about writing a book?

No, never gave it a thought. What do you suggest?  What's your number one burning Beach Boys' question?

Should it burn like that after a night with Brian?

Beautiful post!

A truly wonderful post, Jim. Thank you for your great contributions!

You are correct, Jim, there are some wonderful posters on this board, but your posts are so incredibly informative that you've inspired others to join the discussion to a greater extent than they may have otherwise.  Keep 'em coming, as so far this thread will go down in Smiley Smile Message Board history as one of the best on the board. 

Lee,

Back in I think it was 2008, There was a boot that came out floating around, which contained a couple of takes of Rabbits Foot. So maybe someone some where has it. The boot was called In The Beginning/The Garage Tapes and it had really rough quality.

Just wanted to say how thoroughly I'm enjoying this new release. And a HUGE thanks to everyone involved in making it happen!

I forgot about that -- I have that boot (and the fact that it, and the UNSURPASSED MASTERS boots, exist is the reason that THE BIG BEAT 1963 exists).  It's take 1 and 2 of the instrumental tracking session for "Rabbit's Foot" in mono.  Both are breakdowns, so the entire CD track runs 1 minute 17 seconds.  I believe I recall that the reason it's in mono is that those false starts came from the mono reduction tape instead of the 3-track session tape, but there's always hope!

Lee

Is there anything these guys don't know???????????

Oh, shitloads... and some of what we do think we know, turns out we don't. And that's why it's all so much fun.  ;D

This thread really is the "old guard" of BBs fandom reunited. 8)

Do you know why we can't get the bloody thing in the UK???

EMI stupidity

Really like listening to the Honeys version, but ( and I only skimmed this post originally)   "Owes a lot" is a mighty big understatement! Updated copy is more like it.  

And as I continue to listen to "The Big Beat" , I'm struck by how cool it has to be to be considered a "go to guy"when Capitol needs good recordings. You da man, Lee!!

I think it's just because I'm the only one not smart enough to ask for a "usage fee" for my acetates!

You know, Chris, I should have told them to contact you about the "Johnny Dew" acetate.

Lee

Johnny who?

"Johnny Dew" was actually Brian Wilson. 

He was credited with Farmers Daughter (Nov-62 written & produced) and Lana (Nov-62 written & produced).

Long story short, there's an acetate of alternate versions of "Lana" & "Farmer's Daughter" credited to "Johnny Dew" seemingly recorded 1/16/63 and according to 'manager' Shane Wilder in New York at Fine Studio while the band were on tour. Small problem - the band weren't on tour anywhere in January 1963 and wouldn't hit NYC until very late August. Nik Venet implies the tracks were recorded in LA, possibly at the Tower: maybe yes, maybe no, but the simple fact he knew anything about it strongly argues against a session in NYC (aside from the fact they weren't there anyway).

I wish I could listen to this magical-sounding collection of mp3s.   :'(

OK, I have another theory...  Perhaps these tracks were also under consideration for Aldon Music as part of BW's songwriting portfolio, Brian sent Al Nevins and Don Kirshner (both in NYC) a tape, and Aldon got Fine Studio to cut an acetate for their files?  Just speculating...

Lee

I may be misremembering Wilder's part in this... but the fact is the tracks could not have been cut in NYC because the band weren't there, individually or collectively. And, sorry Lee, but the acetate has a Radio Recorders label: all that likely means is that the disc was pressed up there. That said, cutting the tracks there would make much more sense. Duh... I used the words "make" and "sense" in a Beach Boys context. Think I'd know by you, wouldn't you ?

Nik Venet's recollection (I know...) could be read as the tracks being cut at the Tower... but then, surely the acetate would have a Capitol label.

Ahh that's right; I should have pulled out my photocopies of the acetate labels before opening my mouth and inserting my foot...

Lee

I still have yet to download this set (I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction against paying for mp3s/non-physical releases, but I will nevertheless buy this soon)... but from all this very interesting talk in this thread, one thing occurs to me.

This set of music seems to really be evidence of how Brian, even at a very early stage in his music career, was struggling to figure out whether a given song was "suitable" for the BBs. I see it almost as if the "inappropriate music" saying that he repeated over the years about how SMiLE was not the “right” music that the BBs should have been recording/releasing was in his head from a far earlier era, since his early songs that seemed to stray the most outside of the very early BB Surfin’ Safari/Surfin’ USA surf formula were the songs that he gave to/wrote for other artists. Granted, the BBs eventually became BW’s vehicle for almost all of his output.

Do we know if all the songs on this set were originally intended for other artists, or if perhaps any of them were initially conceived as BB songs, but then determined by BW to be more suited to be recorded for other artists? (Rabbit’s Foot, Surfer Moon, etc).

IMO, it’s fascinating to me that many of Brian’s better, or at least more interesting songs of the very early years (like Cindy, Oh Cindy, Lana, The Baker Man, or even Land Ahoy) went unreleased, while the main problem that the Surfin’ Safari album suffers from is that its songs sound too much alike, tempo and structure wise, at least to my ears (and it could’ve benefitted from some of these tracks in place of some of the tracks actually on the record).

I guess one could chalk this up to the “surf” noose that Brian probably felt around his neck more tightly at the very beginning, when the band was figuring out if it was gonna be just a novelty act, or a vehicle for Brian to be more ambitious with. Do we know why Ten Little Indians was chosen as the 2nd single off Surfin’ Safari? (I assume it was a conscious effort/statement for the BBs to not be solely a “surf” band).

Seems the release of all those Beatles goodies hasn't stemmed a bootleg tide…

(http://www.GigInJapan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/beatles-1-complete-bbc-masters3.jpg)

(http://www.GigInJapan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/beatles-2-complete-bbc-masters1.jpg)

These are both SIX CD sets… cripes!

Ahh, I generally don't remember all of all this stuff!  Shane Wilder being dead makes it a bit of a bother to get any more details from him( fact or fiction)
That said, I'm not sure what the hooey is about Radio Recorders. with them being located in Hollywood CA; I could see some ?? is they were in NYC , I guess

If you're a Beatle collector worth his weight in gold, you'll get 'em all. 40 smackers. The first 25 or so percent are outtakes from Please Please Me/With The Beatles. The remaining 75% are Top of the Pops/BBC. Outtakes are in better quality than bootlegs.

MESSAGE from VICKIE KOCHER (VICTORIA HALE)

I had the always pleasant opportunity to chat with Victoria and she had a few things she asked me to pass on to the dearly devoted . . .

First and foremost, she is deeply appreciative of Lee Dempsey, as I am sure she has told him many times, and his efforts to make the release of THE SUMMER MOON a reality.  The process by which she hand-delivered a fragile acetate made with Brian Wilson and Bob Norberg, which she has treasured for fifty years, was very smooth and professional.  As in Lee's excellent interview with Vickie in ESQ (Spring 2011), she is just thrilled that her song with Brian is finally out there for people to enjoy.

Second, she would like to clarify that her name is Vickie Kocher (not Korcher as appeared on the track list on Amazon and itunes). Professionally, she adopted her mother's maiden name of Hale.  So, as a professional actress, she goes by the name Victoria Hale.

She confirmed, allaying the doubt in my cynical ears, that it is indeed Bob Norberg singing on "The Big Beat" and "Ride Away."  Although she did point out, as she did in Lee's interview, I believe, that Brian often sang along with them, sometimes singing a guide vocal softly in their ears.  So, I wonder if Brian doubles Bob to some extent on "Ride Away?"  Vickie pointed out that she was very familiar with Bob's singing voice as they sang "The Summer Moon" together and she also heard several other songs he had done or was working on.

She will get back to us whether she thinks "First Rock And Roll Dance" might be the instrumental track for "Rock and Roll Bash," written by Brian, Bob Norberg, and Vickie.


SHANE WILDER

Perhaps no more enigmatic figure in early Beach Boys' history than Shane Wilder. As the self-professed "first manager of the Beach Boys," who claimed he "met them at Hawthorne High School in 1960" and "had run into Brian in a store,"  one would reasonably expect Wilder to be a wealth of information about the band's early history. Well, one would be wrong. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to find Shane Wilder. I know more Shane Wilders now than I thought humanly possible. All of them fine people.  None of them that Shane Wilder. I have good reason to suspect that, sadly, he is no longer with us.  But he was a real person. He did exist. He had a daily, syndicated four-hour radio show in LA called "Spotlight on Music," reportedly owned a record store in Thousand Oaks (although a search of 1960-1963 Yellow Pages proved indeterminate and somewhat fruitless), and formed a record production company with LA businessman Herb Warme. Hence the "Wil-War Record Productions" notation that appears on the "Lana" / "Farmer's Daughter" (Johnny Dew) acetate manufactured at Radio Recorders, 7000 Santa Monica Boulevard, that Andrew explained so well and so succinctly, is indeed Shane WILder and Herb WARme.  So, he was involved with the band.  But to what extent? Well, that's debatable. I suspect that, later in life, he may have embellished his credentials and association with the Beach Boys. That's not uncommon. I love that word "embellished." It forgives so many sins. The only interview with Wilder I am aware of was conducted by Dominic Priore in his first Dumb Angel Gazette.  Here are some excerpts from that interview in which Wilder discusses "Surfin'." --  "In four weeks they'd hit the number 32 spot in Billboard.  We never got to number one with "Surfin'" because the Kingston Trio had a record out called "Tom Dooley" which, I'm sure you'll recall, stayed in the charts for five weeks at number one."  Well, as a rule of thumb, when you're interviewing someone and they make three false statements in one sentence, there's good reason to start doubting everything they say. Sure, "Tom Dooley" ruled the charts . . . in fall 1958! Three years before "Surfin'" was released. And "Surfin'" peaked in Billboard at #75 and never had a chance at #1.  But I'll cut Wilder some slack as it did reach #3 in LA on KFWB for the week ending February 16, 1962.  Wilder goes on to make a frustrating number of true, semi-true, and utterly false statements during the interview. Suffice it to say that everything he said about Candix Enterprises, Inc., is untrue. Wilder goes into great length describing the Beach Boys' East Coast promotional tour of New York radio stations. A tour that, as Andrew pointed out, never happened.  They were in the midst of the Surfin' USA album sessions and trying to bounce back after "Ten Little Indians," a respectable #49 hit, but a disappointing and illogical follow-up to "Surfin' Safari." Wilder states they recorded four songs at Fine Studios in NYC, including thirty-three takes of "Farmers Daughter," but had to come back the following night during which time they nailed "Farmer's Daughter" in one take.  

The JOHNNY DEW reference, according to Nick Venet, came about because Murry was always getting on Brian saying, "Brian do it. Brian do it, just do it." Well, according to Venet, Brian sought advice from a recording engineer on how to handle Murry, and the engineer suggested, "Well, you could change your name to Johnny." Hence, 'Johnny Dew' became their inside joke on Murry.  This is all from Stephen J. McParland's pioneering work interviewing music industry figures,many of whom had a direct impact on the Hawthorne Hotshots and, quite frankly, are no longer with us. Without Stephen's work their stories would have been lost forever. Beach Boys' fans everywhere owe a debt of gratitude to Stephen.    

CENTURY DEPRIVED

Excellent points.  I have always found it quite remarkable that Brian was working with so many diverse artists in 1963 -- Bob and Sheri, Bob and Vickie, the Honeys, Jan & Dean, the Survivors, Sharon Marie, the Castells, the Timers -- all while producing three albums with the Beach Boys, three double-sided hit singles, and a perennial Christmas single ("Little St. Nick"). A phenomenal output.  Especially considering that just a few months earlier the Capitol contract had struck so quickly that they were hustled into the studio with precious little material to record. Hence, the reason for the month lag between the first session on August 8th (the day Marilyn Monroe was laid to rest) and September 5th and 6th, when they wrapped up the album.  When Capitol arranged for the lease of "Surfin'" from Hite Morgan for $1, they bumped "Land Ahoy" and it became the album's only outtake. There wasn't a lot of depth to those first sessions in terms of extra songs in the can.  Fast forward six to nine months, and it seems Brian has music coming out of every pore in his body. Really an exponential growth as an artist.  "Ten Little Indians" was a controversial choice.  Brian had suggested "Chug-A-Lug" in a radio interview given July 14 at the First Annual Diaper Derby sponsored by the Downtown Merchants Association in Oxnard, California (Derek Bill's old stomping grounds). Nick Venet, on the other hand, had heard about a song called "C.C. Cinder," written by two East Coast songwriters, that he felt could be a big hit and he wanted Brian to record it with the Beach Boys as their follow-up single to "Surfin' Safari" b/w "409." Venet also knew that his buddy Russ  Regan had written a song called "The Cinnamon Cinder (It's A Very Nice Dance)"  All of this because Joey Dee and the Starliters had scored a huge hit with "The Peppermint Twist" inspired by the New York nightclub of the same name. And KRLA disc jockey Bob Eubanks was getting ready to open his first Cinnamon Cinder night club in Long Beach, CA.  Both Regan and Venet wanted to beat the other to the punch with a record tie-in to the club.  Regan won out and had the Pastel Six, later the house band at the Cinnamon Cinder, record his song and it was a sizable hit, especially in LA. Brian hated "C.C. Cinder." justifiably so, in my humble, and refused to record it. For some reason, "Chug-A-Lug" got vetoed, perhaps by Venet, and they went with "Ten Little Indians" with a beautifully incongruous picture sleeve, because nothing says "Ten Little Indians" like five guys holding a surfboard!  When "Indians" stalled at #49 it gave Murry more ammunition to rail against Gary Usher (the co-writer of "Indians" and its flip side, "County Fair") and Venet for pushing "Indians" as the follow-up. But, in Usher's and Venet's defense, there were very few contenders for the all-important follow-up single.  A quick run down of the album tracks, excluding what had already been released as singles, does not reveal a strong front runner. Personally, I've always wondered how "Chug-A-Lug" would have fared as a single.  And what a cool picture sleeve they could have photographed at the A&W Root Beer stand on Hawthorne Boulevard!      

The Danes had the right idea ;D

(http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q476/marcus1970/StenlittleindiansDK.jpg) (http://s351.photobucket.com/user/marcus1970/media/StenlittleindiansDK.jpg.html)

Yep. Good Idea making those feathers appear to be surfboards!

You guys crack me up. 

But you'e right, at least the Danish EMI art director designed a unique picture sleeve that was associated with the song title. What a quirky sleeve. Of course, today that sleeve would be banned for being politically incorrect. Of course, so would bgas, but that's another story  ;D 

That's a really rare sleeve.  Manfred was kind enough to make me a color photocopy until I could trade a kidney for an original.  I used to joke with Manfred by telling him that I thought my international sleeve collection was pretty good, that is, until his book came out. Hardest country to collect, imho?  Italy.

Jim, was there a particular Italian sleeve(s) that proved the most difficult to snare?

This thread just gets better and better--amazing stories from all. What a superb early Xmas present! Thanks to all--and don't stop, please!!!

Much of this seems to confirm what many of us seem to see as a key thread in BBs history...that Brian's most significant steps forward as a songwriter and producer took place away from his work with the band, whereupon he would then reapply what he'd learned to taking the BBs music forward a notch or three.

This is the greatest Beach Boys related thread I've ever read.  ;D These threads make me wish I had been around and been a fan back in the day.

Can I just say a massive thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread.
I think on Christmas Day, when everyone is sleeping off their goose and wine, I'm going to get myself a cigar and a smalll single malt and start from the very beginning

This IS a great thread and it reminds me why this board can be so good. It's nice to read a thread where someone isn't having a pop at Mike or Brian or where someone is using something said in error or haste - or error of judgement - to jump all over another poster (and then back it up with asshat emails...). 

Special tip of the hat to Mikie too!

Thanks for saying that.  May the holiday spirit bring peace.

This is indeed a Thread above threads. This is how SS used to be before people decided it'd be fun to derail such topics with personal agendas bolstered by inadequate knowledge. And...

Just think of the threads once Jim's book is published: just... think... !!!  ;D

I was gonna say that this thread shows me how utterly irrelevant my fandom has been...

That said, is anyone actually interested in talking about the music on this thing? Or is it all old hat?

I haven't had a chance to listen to it much but I've liked what I've heard so far. I'm grateful for those who shared their collections and worked to make it happen.

No-one's fandom is ever irrelevant. It matters to you, and that's the main thing.

The music. Excellent point, which seems to have fallen by the wayside: what's your view ?

 Funny Boy-sure sounds like it could have been a hit-I love the gritty vocal

I've only had a chance to listen to the first half or so... The standout so far is the Gonna Hustle You demo... Are there any credits for that one? Did Jan Berry have a hand in it?

The I Do demo is also a cut above, thanks to the vocal arrangement compared to the others.

I like hearing the progression in Brian's backing track production/arrangement as well.

Well, the credit on TBB appears to be Wilson/Norberg, while the credit on the J&D version is Berry/Wilson. Just to confuse things neatly, the credit for "New Girl In School" is Berry/Wilson/Christian/Norman.

"Norman" in the credits = Bob Norman = Robert Burton Norberg (Bob Norberg) of "Bob & Sheri" and "Survivors" fame. Also had a hand in writing "Keep an Eye On Summer" with Brian.

Gonna Hustle You is my favorite too I think  ;D

I'd love to hear more demos of the BW Jan & Dean songs! (well, any demos, really...)

Have had a short amount of time to listen to the set now and it's utterly fascinating. That trademark BW boogie piano stands out on some tracks; but what a huge leap BW made in what must have been just a few months, in terms of developing ability. Enjoying spotting recycled riffs all over the place (to be more accurate, riffs that would be recycled over the coming decade…). The Honeys material is quite splendid… I've missed out on one or two Honeys collections down the years so the overall impact of this feels fresh - gimme more!

Some of these tracks would be great fun to hear a modern day BW tackle with his current band, a al Gershwin album but such a different style though equally monumental.

My thoughts exactly.


How? How? How? How? HOW?

Haven't been here in a loooong while. What's the etiquette in sharing Dropbox links? Is it frowned upon? Is it applauded?

If it involves sharing music, it's definitely frowned on and can (will?) result in banning. If t's sharing written documents/info, maybe okay.

As has been written here before on various threads, powers-that-be with BRI/Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, and other parties read these message boards. So, if anything is even borderline piracy-related, it could result in some type of action taken against the posters and/or the board itself.

If some fellow European wants to PM me to complain about the unavailability of this collection I will reply to the message.

Which is why I asked the question. Thanks for the clarification.

So the collection released to meet EU copyright requirements is not available in the EU?  I admit I don't get it.

Love Funny Boy. The line about "statistic number 129" is a favorite line of mine, now...what does it mean (if anything)?

I was kind of thinking the same thing. The vast majority of the material on TSS was new to me. It felt a little strange having something like that basically handed to me, when some people have been around for the whole 40 year Smile saga.

Fandom isn't quantitative. Dude A isn't a bigger fan than Dude B just because he's got more albums. Some fans know, and have retained, more than others, is all. Does that make one iota of difference to how good the music is, or how one appreciates it ? I don't think so... and oh how I wished I came to The Smile Sessions totally clean. I envy the fans of today hearing all this stuff for the very first time, more than you can possibly imagine...

I think a similar experience happened between myself and our friend and mod, Billy, as he was a budding "hardcore" Beatles fan. It was really cool to hear(er, read) his surprise at some of the circulating bootleg recordings, that I had already heard and collected years ago.

On a side note, it was awesome to hear Mike alternating with Brian on some verses of H&V, from TSS. A bit jarring though.  ;D

Reminds me of the interview Brad Elliot did with Rich Alarian/Petersen that was published in the summer 1983 Add Some Music where Alarian claimed that it was him singing lead on" Pamela Jean" with Brian singing in his ear... a claim proven to be entirely false when the session tapes for said song turned up on SOT UM Vol. 4 and it was clear that not only was it Brian singing the lead, but that he was also pretty unimpressed with the way the other (Alarian included) were handling the bvs.

Billy's summer romp The Beatles *sigh* was one of the very best threads this year.  Really fun, you could feel the excitement growing as he went from album to album.  Lots of great posters guiding him.  It was a blast.  It also helped to have a different place to go while the board was going fever pitch waiting for MIC.  There's already a thread for "best threads" - that and this one are sure to be mentioned there in the future.

Well, when TSS came out, I celebrated by listening to vinyl Today!, Summer Days, and Pet Sounds all through before putting on TSS vinyl - that actually was like listening with fresh ears. If you have time, try it.

It was a blast for me too 8)

AGD - do we know anything more about these acetate alternate versions of "Lana" & "Farmer's Daughter"? Are they just different vocal takes, or actually completely different demo versions?

Hang on, I'll get it out and give it a spin: it's been a while.

OK, tracks seem to be basic, that is lacking a few overdubs - or maybe just a rough mix - and the vocals seem slightly different too.

That's a relief! As much that I don't have to play it again, as actually checking the sound with MY hearing.
Do you have good pics of the labels, that could be compared to its existing condition, so I can tell if they are discoloring/deteriorating? (I can post current if that makes it easier)

Is there a link where I can download 'The Big Beat 1963'? I can't find anything online (I'm in the UK). Thanks.

I've been devouring this set, and it's really quite amazing.

What do y'all make of "Mother May I"? Such a bizarre tune. When it starts out, you think "wow, what a great, young BW vocal", only to quickly have that thought change to a gigantic "WTF" on the choruses!

This and "Punchline" have to be 2 of the weirdest songs from that era.

Minus the grating proto-Child of Winter vocals, it's a really solid little early BB tune. I have to think that the sole reason this song was completely unreleased in any form for so many years has to be that the band was simply completely embarrassed by it. I would think that possibly, that embarrassment would also be the reason it took so many years for the alternate "Meant For You" released, since the extended version's lyrics about ponies and puppies could be considered pretty damn embarrassing (I can dig 'em, but it may take a superfan to "understand"). Maybe at this point, so late in the game of the band's career, it's less of an issue for the more potentially embarrassing material to finally see the light of day, if there's money to be made.

That, or they largely used the melody for Our Car Club

bgas - True dat, I had never realized that "Our Car Club" connection until you pointed it out. It makes perfect sense to me that this tune wasn't released as a proper album track for a multitude of reasons... but I'd think that a fully-formed and properly realized outtake from this era, such as this tune, would've seen the light of day on some compilation or as a 2-fer bonus track, if not for the fact that the band must've seen it as really bottom-of-the-barrel embarrassing. I guess it still has the "merit" of releasability though for the BBs to have officially let it be released, since there are good portions of the song that are unquestionably awesome :) This song seeing proper release gives me hope that some outtakes from the 70s (with Brian not exactly in top form), will be cleaned up and released at *some* point.

I thought of a different song when I first heard "Mother May I" -- "Beach Girl" by the Nodaens (aka Dave Nowlen -- of The Survivors).  Nowlen said he nicked the melody of "Beach Girl" from the unreleased (and unheard) BW tune "A Joy Ride Cruise."

Lee

"Hide Go Seek".

 Is it just me or  does anyone else hear Jan and Dean on backing vocals on Gonna Hustle You ? I swear I hear Jan at least-any ideas ?

Yes Jan can be heard sing background vocals with Brian. If no one believes me turn up the fade and you can for a split second hear, Jans vocal.

Don't suppose anyone has found out any way to get/hear this in the UK yet.

Also I'm surprised how quickly this thread got left behind, surely this is a pretty significant collection?

Crazy isn't it?  Fans in Europe who wanted to shell out for this collection and were forced to rely on illegal downloads. Great move by the record company. In the UK alone, at, say £8.99 a throw, how could they have lost when it's a digital download? And they say bootleggers are harming profits?

I'm in he UK and buy everything they release (several times over) and yet I can't get this. Gutted! >:(

Just downloaded this (in Finland, got it from iTunes) and while there's nothing here that blows my mind (well, Mother May I comes close), this is definitely a most interesting listen. Should we have a topic for this at the review section, I'd say this counts as an album?

Finally got my dirty slow-ass hands on this gear (although iTunes Oz must take some of the tardiness blame).

Wow! What a whole mess of fun this stuff is to behold  :rock, historical significance aside and all that.

Best couple of bucks I've yet given to the Apple Beast - more please!

Bump.  

And a very nice one to add to my collection. Thanxx Les!!  

Veeeeeeeeeeeery nice! Ta for sharing!

Just thinking out loud... but would Capitol go to the trouble of preparing instore promo items for an album that didn't actually exist ? I'd like to see the provenience of this.

I believe that Smile cover slick on cardboard from 1966/7 is legitimate.

In late 1966, my older brother and I haunted the Frank of Frank's Record Shop on White Plains Road in the Bronx, New York, for when the new Beach Boys' album was going to be released.  It was Smile and Frank had the album cover prominently displayed in the front window of his shop.  We thought at the time it was the entire album cover, but, in retrospect, was most likely just the front cover slick.  I cannot recall whether it was mounted on cardboard, but it probably was because Frank had it propped up in the front window and it appeared to be just like a "regular" album cover. We would stand in front of Frank's and stare at the album cover because it was so colorful and unusual.

After hearing "Good Vibrations," Rich and I became somewhat obsessed with getting the new album. We lived nearby Frank's shop so we would stop in quite often and ask if the album was out yet.  Frank was a great guy, one of the many independent record store owners in the Bronx at the time.  He would tell us things like, "Not yet boys.  Still no word.  Not sure when it's coming out."  Rich and I were frustrated, but did not give it a whole lot of thought as to why it was not coming out.  Before the Smile myth evolved, it was just the band's new album, albeit an album that would contain "Good Vibrations" and, we figured, other amazing songs. In time, word filtered down that the album was not going to be released.  We were mystified, but we really did not think too much more about it.

Of course, if a small account like Frank's had a Smile cover, then I'd imagine Capitol must have produced quite a few of them as promotional items (hundreds?  thousands?). Raising the question, "What happened to them all?"  Certainly, most were tossed or returned to Capitol reps, but one would think some would have survived.  

Even now, after all these years, I can still see that Smile cover in the front window of Frank's Record Shop. And I continue to ask myself two questions.  What happened to it?  And why, for the love of God, didn't you ask Frank for the cover.    

Of course, theCapitol salesmens disc does refer to an instore display piece. Curiouser and curiouser.

I'm not qualified to judge authenticity but they were shooting for a January release which was well before the project was cancelled.

There appears to be a black edge on the top and opening side. Is that part of the front liner or is that something added to the cardboard? A Queens Litho rep pointed out to me that in that day Capitol's front liners were different from others. They either wrapped the album's edge or they did not wrap the album's edge, too lazy to go check.

Is that a coated paper litho or is it a bond paper print? The photo kind of looks like it might be printed directly to the cardboard.

I'm with Jim and Cam in thinking it is legit. At first I thought of a store owner gluing it to cardboard
to place in a window display.  But that fixing is well done (you can see the vertical cardboard stripes
on the front over the word "Boys"  --seamless, no bubbles).  That couldn't be Elmer's. Cam's idea
of direct printing is fascinating.  Could Capitol do that?

So...rare.  I would compare it with my "'Smile' the Beach Troll" (still have the package, although opened). Orange crazy
hair, classic Troll plastic.  This is when the troll fad had faded.  Likely pulled or just not produced much. 
 

Tom Bagdonas (member here) used to tell me of a record store on NYC that had a SMiLE cover on their wall, well before all the reprints came out.  Maybe Tom can elaborate as to whether the "cover" was on cardboard like this.

I too vote "real" on Phil's cover.

Lee

Short of proofs I'm going to say the front and back liners were all used by subcontractors to make complete covers. My understanding is that at that time Capitol did not make album covers, they were made by subcontractors. For the SMiLE covers it was BertCo and Queens Litho [on the memoes]. BertCo made their covers in-house as I understand it and delivered them to Capitol production. Queens Litho printed the front liners, shipped them to a sub-subcontracting fabricator who printed the black on white plain bond paper back liners and assembled completed covers and shipped those to the other Capitol production center in the memo [forgotten]. That would be why Mike said they had album covers already in April '67 and Capitol production had covers in warehouse until 1969.

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... :) ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.

See? I knew I'd read that somewhere. That's why it's hard for me to understand how a few didn't survive. Unless they had very close control of them.  What were the numbers of those supposedly printed and scrapped?

I believe the number usually nadied about is 400,000 copies each, of both the booklet and the cover.
I'm thinking there are about 10 original booklets known to exist.
I've never seen a claim of even one cover, unless perhaps Mike or one of the other BBs has a cover squirreled away somewhere. 
Where does Mike's April '67 quote originate? 
I was under the impression Capitol had the items in warehouse until 1970/71 when they put them in the Scranton landfill; anyone been to the landfill to check it out? 

 

The Duford-Kaiser store is shown prominently in this 1957 Rose Parade photo, along with the addresss and some pertinent info in the comments section: 

http://www.charlesphoenix.com/2008/12/rose-parade-pasadena-ca-january-11957/ 

The LLVS printing on page 9/10,  seems to me to be written/quoted from the same Bill Earl whose small diary entry is included on page 10; ( I don't believe Domenic was old enough in 1966 to have witnessed all of that) So anyone know Bill to contact him?  ( I don't) 

While I believe Phil's cover to be a legitimate Capitol promo piece there are a few questions I have:

   Is it the same as the others spotted around the country and did they all have this same black border on two sides.     OR, 
   Were all of them cut from a larger poster featuring other Capitol releases? ( if that's the case,   WHY has zero evidence of a full poster surfaced in the ensuing years? )

   Was the Instore display to be only a cover mock-up, ala Phil's or a poster of multiple label releases?
   Was the poster manufactured solely by Capitol, or in conjunction with other labels for "Discount Records Center"( and was Duford-Kaiser still existing by 1966 or were they "Discount"? 
  TOO many questions for me....  sure would like to see the poster tho....

Thank you for the info on Pasadena and the record shop! The problem with pages like that in LLVS and also the quotes in the earlier Preiss book is that the quotes and paragraphs could be left hanging with no context or dates to identify where or who it came from.

I looked close at the cardboard example again, and I'm leaning toward suggesting it was cut from a larger in-store display, maybe similar to or the exact same type that is described in LLVS. And again, it doesn't answer any questions in 2014 but the shop owner's suggestion to go to the distributor to ask for one suggests this was circulated among shops and dealers, if not given to Capitol's regional and local sales reps to give to the shops when they paid a regular visit.

Which opens up yet again the question why did more of them not survive, actually if they're specifically described in LLVS decades ago why have they not surfaced, even an image of the poster?

I'm thinking the cardboard example in the photo *may* have been cut from a larger display piece for simple practical reasons too: We don't really know how big the display was, maybe if the person who originally got this didn't have the room to store a large piece and didn't care much about the other Capitol albums on the display, he simply cut out the Beach Boys cover he wanted to save and got rid of the rest.

Looking closely, again it looks like someone took scissors or an X-Acto knife to the cardboard and cut out Smile from the rest. The cut around the edges is pretty rough and uneven, not a machine cut.

And of course factor in the collector's dream of finding the original L.O.L. (little old lady) having an estate sale at the house she lived in since 1952 with her late husband who was "something in the music business" in the 50's and 60's. We're first in line and get there early, go straight to the attic: "Oh, look around up there if you want, just be careful of the cats."

And in that attic there is an unused roll of Beach Boys Party potato chip bags, and a few of the Smile posters from Capitol still in the shipping tubes from 1966, some 8mm film canisters and ancient Sony Porta-Pak open reels labeled "Brian W 1/67", and off in the corner next to a sewing machine sits the Smile in store cardboard display. And next to that an old Chesterfield cigarette cardboard box with a sealed, first-state Butcher Cover.

Then she says "Oh, he had an old guitar too, didn't play it much tho', let me see if I can find it"...and walks out with a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard, sunburst with the original pink-lined case and hang-tags.

"You're really helping me, young man, I gotta get rid of this stuff before I sell the house...is it worth anything?"

It could happen... :lol

L.O.L :lol

GF --

Add a 1962 Fender Strat to a corner in that attic . . . and that is exactly what I dream about every night!  Hmm, these chips are still good!

Scranton, that's the one Queens Litho shipped to. That Mike ref was in a German interview translated in LLVS. Any body have it in the original language?

It's possible Production never cracked a box of covers except to verify contents. They would be held for filling with sleeves and records probably. The Art Director and Legal and the Producer and maybe, but necessarily, the band would have already seen and signed off on proofs and Art Department mock ups. There wouldn't have been any reason for any of the covers to leave the warehouse really until shipped or disposed I'm thinking.

There were other Capitol in store displays for albums other than smile, right?  Maybe someone can find a photo of one.  My remembrance of in store displays was a cardboard mockup in a cardboard holder, with the cover leaning back some so as not to fall out of the display.  Not sure if the cardboard holder had record company logos on it or was generic.  But this was close to fifty years ago so I'd like a photo to confirm my memory.

As for booklets, I suspect there are only five or six extant.  Lee's, frank's, mine, and the Guy Webster one but I can't remember who ended up with that one.  That's four.  Lee, do you know for sure of any more?

I got to touch Lee's booklet once. Not just look at it to verify its authenticity, but I actually got to touch it. I was there when Lee compared his to Frank's (the booklets). After the meeting, I was waiting for Lee outside in a dark alley and was thinking about mugging him but chickened out at the last minute.....

So if there's only 4 0r 5 in existence, which one was used to make the bootlegged versions of the booklet back in the 70's?  Remember the ones that were excellent copies offered for 12 bucks and some people never got theirs? I think more than one run was made of them. I have a numbered one.

Sounds as if youre talking about LP cover stand-ups that we touched upon earlier in this thread, tho there have been other displays for other artists( Beatles come to mind) 
 And of course there's the semi-famous Capitol cardboard display  that holds multyiple copies of actual LPs

As for The Booklets, I believe Leetold me his is an artist's proof version, with some of the parts glued in as for a mock-up.
Of course you should add mine to your count. 

So that's five for sure, but as you mention, not all of them are production copies.  Mine is also a proof.  And a very good question has been raised - whose booklet was used to make the numbered run edition in the late 70s early 80s?  It was not a proof booklet.  Frank's was a regular production copy.  The advantage of the proof copies are that they are generally in better condition and the art is more detailed with better resolution than on the actual "mass printed" booklets.

And yeah, I remember the holders used for actual LP's for display as well.  I was out of the country in 66-67 so I missed my chance to see and potentially get a Smile display from the local record retailer!

 Mine is almost Mint, except one page has a couple of very light paper scrapes. Not certain who owned it before I did, and whether they might have made the boots.

I would think that Peter has a booklet to go with his Mono Slick.

While a fan, I wasn't following them closely enough in 66-67 to be aware of the possiblity of Smile covers/displays and I really can't remembr visiting any actual record stores back then; it was all department store buys for me. 

The booklet used for the 1970s repro belonged to a UK fan, and was a finished copy, not a proof. I got to see and handle it on several occasions and, rusty staples aside, it was in immaculate condition. The fan in question also had a "finished" sleeve.

I say "finished" because, excepting maybe ten art dept. mockups, no completed sleeves ever existed. Couldn't, as the back slick was never printed up like the front slick. The layout of the back slick wasn't finalised and, as a monochrome print, it would have (literally) taken one quarter of the time it took to produce the front cover.

Regarding the cover pictured in this thread, given the image and the references, it looks like the display featured several albums, and that the Smile one was cut out from it. Question - how big is the cover pictured in this thread ?

If you live in the UK, The Big Beat 1963 i available.

Here's the link —

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Beat-1963-Various-artists/dp/B00HXLLDM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390853273&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+beat+1963

I ended up with Peter's after going through a couple of other owners. 

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttt and to think I already downloaded it illegally because I COULDN'T BUY IT WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT EVEN THOUGH I WANTED TO!

 Be neat to see a finished sleeve, but I'm not sure of your distincttion. Not sure what your point is on the back covers as I own a back slick ( yes, it is exactly like the boot/copies of the back)
 It is an original as proofed by the Capitol art dept/Ray Polley; if your point is the back covers were never printed from this slick,  I can live with that, as it impacts me not at all.
  But to flat out deny their existence is rather silly as back slicks do exist. Brian not finshing his selections doesn't mean squat as far as Capitol producing slicks.

Back slicks exist, but were never printed up past the proof stage, hence maybe only 10 ever existed, as opposed to about 440,000 finished front slicks and (reportedly) 410,000 booklets.

Can anyone supply an image of or the exact wording of the August 1969 memo about what SMiLE related material was still in the Scranton and LA warehouse? Thanks.

Okay, gotcha. Figured it was something like that, and whle I know I tend to forget stuff, nice to have some numbering.  
Thanxx, for being more precise.

Edit;  backtracking... I wasn't there, and don't know anyone that was, so How do "we" know that the 440,000 Front slicks weren't attached to covers with Back slicks also attached to those same covers?  Unless some Capitol employee(s) snatched a copy on the way to the landfill, or someone can dig into that landfill and find a reasonably intact package, what eveidence is there for any of this? 

Also, AGD, any chance you can get whomever has the finsihed sleeve to post some pics? 

I still can't get this  ???

I'm in Australia.......

would dearly pay for this, any ideas how I can get this...

pm me please gang

RickB

Found these numbers on some Smile archive site; They're relatively close  to your numbers. Does this mean that some of each would be in LA landfills/the LaBrea tar pits? 
352,000 Smile covers and 325,000 booklets - at the Scranton, PA plant.
114,000 Smile covers and 94,200 booklets - at the Los Angeles plant.

It's on iTunes Australia - $16.99.  Go to "Store", then type in "The Big Beat 1963" in the search box thingy

Still blown away by "Mother May I".  Might just be a weird little song for most people, but for my money hearing an unreleased BW song from 1963 in stellar quality automatically beats most of the unreleased stuff on MIC.  It makes me wonder what other gems will come out of these copyright extension releases if they go on.

  I just spoke to Phil, and he says it's album size, and is indeed printed on the cardboard( he said  it couldn't be peeled off). 
(Phil also has a NEAT BBs Striped shirt that he said was given to him when he and some pals met the BBs upon their arrival at the airport)
 Maybe he'll come around sometime and post about it....  Neat story

edit: edit

Ah, so it was part of the display mentioned on the salesmens promo disc and not a dedicated Smile piece. Prolly a lot like the one in the pic of Brian w/Earl Leaf pushing Teen Set #1(except that one was all BB albums). Thanks for that, much appreciated.

And I'd bet dollars to donuts it's from the very same multi-album display piece seen in Pasadena that was described in LLVS, and here:



So all that's left to find is the corresponding promo poster that Bill Earl got on his shopping trip in April 1967.  :)

I love it when a plan comes together...  ;D

I also love the smell of napalm in the morning... but that's not important right now.  ::)

I see a new avatar in the future... ;D

(http://www.myiconart.com/2337-thickbox/a-team-tote-bag-hannibal-a-plan-comes-together.jpg)

I love it when a pancake comes together… but that's not the issue here…

So, All we have to do is find Bill Earl?  Where's Dom for his contact info? 

It would be great to get even a photo of the poster, just so we know what the item is/was and to add to the list of Smile items. I'm actually surprised in light of the massive research and collecting that has gone into the Smile Sessions box set and other projects that it was never photographed or copied and reproduced since it's been known to exist for decades.

I'd think such an item would be as important or even as iconic as the "Look Listen..." magazine ad.

Well, all of that  except, "Known to exist". As far as I know there is no such knowledge. Just one report in Dom's book. Seemingly, no one else has ever heard of this poster. Certainly none has ever been offered for sale.  Ever

That's true, I jumped to conclusions on that one. Knowing that it did exist and that at least one person reported that they had it at one time is no guarantee that it still exists 5 decades or so later. Or even if anyone, anywhere still has the poster.

FTFY.

Beach Boys / The Beat Beat 1963 / 1CD Digipak

http://www.giginjapan.com/beach-boys-beat-beat/

That is definitely not a legit product. Looks like someone got the mp3s off iTunes and burned them to cd. Never heard of Brian Wilsom either.

For those that were screaming out for a lossless release of this set - it's available to some Europeans -

Okay, here's the link!

http://www.qobuz.com/be-nl/album/the-big-beat-1963-various-artists/0060253767445

- FLAC 16bit / 44.1kHz -

Wish I had a friend living in Austria, Belgium, The Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Ireland, or Luxembourg.

How can you be sure it's lossless and not just FLACed from iTunes or Amazon?

There are ways to know after you've downloaded, namely use software like "Lossless Audio Checker". The answer will be clear.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the files are from the master quality source, rather than an iTunes download - qobuz is a reasonably reputable service, not some two-bit pirate operation. The price is pretty small.

Anyone downloaded this from QOBUZ and checked for lossless source via - http://losslessaudiochecker.com/  ?

Unfortunately the Live In Sacramento 1964 release isn't up on German Amazon - just the SOT CD from some seller...

I haven't yet, but I'll bite, as I still don't have The Big Beat but have been planning to get it for a while. I figure, if they're lossy, I couldn't have got 'em from anywhere else in better condition anyway, as all the other known sources are lossy too - and if they're lossless, then I've got 'em in the format I want right from the off.

I'll report back...

EDIT: Downloading AIFFs (supposedly uncompressed...) now...!

Well, although I requested AIFFs from Qobuz, the files downloaded as Apple Lossless (ALAC) instead. The playback outcome should be the same (uncompressed audio), but ALAC has to be decompressed in real time, so it's not absolutely the same thing.

All the files failed on lossless audio checker. However, if the analysis and judgement in the lossless audio checker (which I've never used before) is done on the basis of frequency response analysis, it's worth remembering that a lot of the files on the Big Beat are from really terrible demo recordings or (by the sound of the odd crackle on the files) acetates or disc recordings that have been denoised as best they could. They might therefore have a terrible frequency response anyway at source, and be giving false failures.

The jury is therefore out. I would need to have a better idea of what Lossless Audio Checker is doing to determine whether a file is compressed or not. And also, with hindsight, The Big Beat 1963 is not the best clutch of recordings to be analyzing in this way, because a lot of the tracks sound terrible anyway (in sound and recording quality terms) because of their provenance.

I wait to see whether Qobuz will start selling a supposedly uncompressed version of KAEOS64. *Then* we'd know, because the sound quality of the recordings on that release was amazing, and it would be easier to detect whether the files were lossy or not.

However, I seem to remember one of the well-connected insiders here opining that Lucifer would have a frosty nose before we get KAEOS64 as an uncompressed release. Heigh ho. Back to the drawing board...

Oh well, I'm now an owner of The Big Beat 1963, anyway. That was fun in the name of 'research'...!

Thanks for your trouble Matt.

I have found LAC to be quite fussy, and so agree with your reasoning - the jury is still out!

But I thought I saw KAEOS64 at QOBUZ -

 http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/keep-an-eye-on-summer-the-beach-boys-sessions-1964-the-beach-boys/0060254720304

Jack Frost visits hades!

While many of the tracks on The Big Beat are demo recordings sourced from acetates or other sources, not everything contained in it is of that quality.  "The Big Beat", "Mother May I", "Bobby Left Me", "Side Two", and "Ballad Of Old Betsy (Demo)" all sound like they're new mixes from the original tapes.  If these tracks failed Lossless Audio Checker than I'd say it's almost 100% certain that the tracks offered from Qobuz aren't genuine lossless files.

Indeed, it would be very easy for them to have re-encoded the original iTunes lossy files of either release as WAVs or AIFFs, FLACs or ALACs, and then claim they were selling uncompressed files. But of course this wouldn't restore the original uncompressed audio. As I've said before, it would be like taking a superb high-resolution digital scan of a smartphone snap of the Mona Lisa, and trying to pass it off as the original. The degradation caused to the image when it's taken as a smartphone snap is not restored by the later high-res digital scan; you just get a great copy of something that's already lost some of the appealing qualities of the original.

I repeat, however, that for me, the jury's still out on whether Qoboz has been naughty enough to do this. Lossless Audio Checker (especially the free web version I used) strikes me as something of a blunt tool, and I'm not sure I feel secure pronouncing the Qoboz files as lossy rips in a high-res coating solely on the basis of LAC's say-so.

I would need to get a spectragraph reading of the files to get a better idea, but even that isn't foolproof (and I can't right now anyway, as the computer I have my serious audio analysis tools on is packed away pending some building work I'm having done at the moment).

Some of the pitfalls of trying to determine whether something is lossy or lossless are mentioned in this thread:

http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=71862 (http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=71862)

Post number 11 there explains the whole Mona Lisa thing in more technical language than I put it, for anyone who wants that  ;)

I won't be giving the Qobuz versions of KAEOS64 a go any time soon, for two reasons: one, I currently lack the tools I would trust to be able to make a proper judgement, even on the better-quality recordings that can be found on KAEOS64, and secondly, and more prosaically — I already bought KAEOS64 in its original lossy format once, and I don't really want to shill for it again. Especially not if it turns out the files are the same lossy ones I already paid for, but this time in a sugary hi-res coating, so to speak...!

How about doing a test with one of your own files, a .wav/.aif that you know is lossless, run it through the tester to check to see what kind of data gives you, then compressing that very same file and convert it to .wav, checking it again. At least that could give you an idea if the tool works at all.

I thought of trying that, but before I got round to it, runnersdialzero tested a couple of The Big Beat Qoboz files for me. Well, really, for us, you might say — for the benefit of the board. He rules.

As you may have read on the KAEOS64 thread, which has temporarily dropped down the board in all of the fuss surrounding BW's Q&A appaearance, runners concluded that the Qobuz Big Beat files are NOT compressed.

As a result of this, I am tempted to re-shill for KAEOS64 from Qobuz — after all, if The Big Beat from Qobuz is not compressed, there's a chance the KAEOS64 ones aren't, either — and ask runners to test a couple of the 1964 files, too. But I haven't got round to it yet. It sticks in the craw a bit to pay twice for something. But if the end result is that I can have an archive copy that isn't slightly degraded, I would much rather have that than the iTunes versions.

The Big Beat 1963 now appears to be unavailable for downloading/streaming on any service as far as I can tell. Has this been the case for a while? Wonder why was it taken down?

 Man that sucks. The impermanence of streaming is an incredible drag.

Truly a bummer, especially since the compilation was only available as a digital download or via streaming. iTunes in the US has 10 selections available (album only) all by either Brian Wilson, The Honeys, or Bob & Sheri. All the Beach Boys stuff is gone.

Glad I bought  my digital copy years ago when I did. 

Taking stuff off iTunes only encourages piracy.  I'll never get why they would allow something to lapse like this for whatever legal BS that might be the cause here, money is being lost.

Yes I got the digital download as well, thank goodness.
I'm re-reading Becoming the Beach Boys. It's great to be able to listen to those songs that are referenced.

Oh blast! It's still available on 7Digital but only in mp3 format and I really want it in lossless. I guess that's what I get for being too slow. Hopefully it'll be available once again...  :-\

I got the Big Beat as zip file for free by runnersdialzero, then-Smiley Smile member. :3d Nice music.

I wish I could have scored a copy.

Same here! I have the lossy mp3 from Amazon. Great music, but always hoped for the flacs to become available.

I'd take pretty much any file if it sounded good. lol

It's never been available in Japan, so I've never got around to listen to it  :(

Is slow the word?  Thing came out 6 years ago.   ;D

You're right. Slow isn't the right word. I'll be honest and say that I had little or no interest in the Beach Boys (or music in general) at that time...  :-[

Would it be uncouth to request a PM of a zip of this album? I've long-since lost the computer I used to have the files on a few years back... And it doesn't seem to be available for purchase in the U.S... If anyone would be inclined to helping out somebody who hates digital music but absolutely loves Beach Boys-related outtakes, I'd be a happy collector...

It’s kind of a gray area but as far as my personal beliefs go I’m for it if it’s something that’s out of print. I myself never got the chance