The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've often wondered what the BB band members' interpersonal relationships were like between one another over the years. Obviously the most famous (or infamous) relationships in the band that have been discussed in detail are probably between Dennis + Mike, or Brian + Mike... and peoples' relationships evolved (or devolved) over the years, certainly.  

But there are many other relationships in the band that are rarely discussed...


What about Dennis + Al?
Dennis + Bruce?
Al + Dennis?
Carl + Bruce?
Mike + Bruce are buddies now, but were they always buddy-buddy like they are now?
etc, etc...

Most certainly, some members of this band, past and present, would probably had next to nothing in common (and would never have hung out/associated whatsoever) certain other members had they not found themselves in close quarters over many years being in a band together.

The key relationship is one you didn't mention : Brian and Carl. Not only was this relationship the heart and soul of the band, but it seems to have followed the most intriguing trajectory : mentor/protege, loyalty/betrayal, closeness/estrangement, rescue/abandonment...

I think this is something that we all just have assumed since they tour together. But I have never seen them really interact outside of interviews and shows. I think they are more like touring partners with a similar philosophy on how the beach boys should function as a touring band. This is just from observation, nothing that anyone has told me.

I agree with what you're saying... I meant more of a buddy thing in terms of how they seem to get along well and both seem pretty much strictly business minded, but yes - I doubt M & B spend too much time socializing outside of "work", especially these days as they've gotten older.

And Clack - the Carl/Brian relationship is an especially fascinating and tragic one, that seems to have been just touched on in some books/readings I've come across. I'm sure Brian feels there was lots of unfinished business that he never got to resolve in their relationship before Carl's passing.

The other bandmember relationships seem to be still a mystery to me...

Weren't Al and Carl close in the later years of the Beach Boys? Thought I read that somewhere. They would have dinner together on the road, at least. Without the other two guys.

They sure had their interpersonal struggles but even in some of the 1983 concert footage I've seen (I think it was the Seattle stadium gig) Dennis and Al seem to be on fairly good terms, for example.

Confirmed, at least the part about having dinner together, with their wives along as well. When they had to share dressing rooms, it was Carl and Al, Mike and Bruce.

For what it's worth, on the Hawthorne discs there is audio of Dennis mentioning he stopped off at Al's place on the way back from the beach. I'm not sure if this actually happened but there you have it.

On one of the C50 dvds we got, Bruce talks about riding motorcycles with Dennis in death valley.....I find this one a bit hard to picture, but whatever! :lol

This is the type of odd story that interests me. I have a tough time picturing that too, probably because of the (seemingly, to me as a fan) mega different personality types that would seem to render these two guys a mismatch for hangout time like this.

From at least the late 80's onward they always shared dressing rooms, even in the largest of venues and it was indeed always this configuration--Carl and Al in one room, Mike and Bruce in another. When Carl toured while undergoing treatment in 1997 he had his own dressing room. In LA that summer, it was Mike, Bruce and Al in one room, Carl in another and, oddly enough, Stamos in a third.

Remember that Bruce is really the only other guy in the band who did any real amount of surfing. There was probably a point of connection there while they were in their twenties, which faded away over time, particularly when Carl and Dennis became more "progressive" in their social outlook. Some people hang out for awhile, then drift apart. Either (or both) could explain their early association, and their growing apart.

If you think Bruce and Dennis hanging out was weird, I'm still trying to imagine how Bruce's night out with Keith Moon went. That must've been a sight to see.

I'd be very interested in the Carl/Brian-relationship and its difficulties... Was it true that they barely spoke in Carl's final years? And did their problems precede the second Landy era, or was it good ol' Eugene who ruined their relationship as well?

I wonder if Bruce and Dennis ever surfed together? And at what point Dennis stopped surfing?

The reason they barely spoke in later years was essentially two-fold: firstly, Carl had his own problems and secondly, he was deeply hurt by his depiction in Brian's pseudobiography. Brian watched the 1998 SuperBowl with Carl: last time Brian saw his brother alive.

Considering how much emphasis, rightly or wrongly, is put on the interpersonal relationships in biographies and articles and whatnot about the band, there are some relationships that are relatively unexplored.

Carl and Brian is an intriguing one. If you go back and read the few interviews in print or on film around that early 90's period where the Landy issues were hitting the fan, it's clear Carl found the whole thing pretty upsetting and sensitive. I believe it was in the "30th Anniversary" British TV special that Carl was asked about the situation, and he seemed very guarded and unwilling to go into much detail. Not sure how much of that was being upset or sensitive about the Landy situation, and how much of it was due to the whole conservatorship legal drama being a pending issue that he didn't think should be discussed.

What seems more sad is that there was at least a good four or five years after Landy was gone where Carl and Brian still seemed to be somewhat estranged, perhaps at least a bit less so (they did do some recording together of course and whatnot). Brian remained so from the whole band to some degree. It's really sad that Brian's predicament in the 70's and early 80's distanced him from the band, then Landy got him into better physical shape which allowed a potentially more normal relationship with the band, yet he ended up more estranged and damaged the relationship to the point where even after Landy was gone, it seemed a rather tenuous arrangement to get Brian with the group.

I also think the Mike/Al relationship has not been explored enough over the years. There seems to be more business/legal drama than interpersonal drama between those two. But the business/legal stuff basically creates the interpersonal issues, and nobody yet has provided a detailed description of why Mike and Al seemed to go so sour.  Yes, we know some of the business stuff that distanced them. We also have some general comments from Mike back in the 90's about Al having a negative attitude, getting hung up on stuff from the past, and whatnot. Al seemed to come away kind of in shock about the sharkish business attitude of Mike and whatnot. But that's a relationship I'd like to see explored more. It does seem like when they were "allied" in the 70's and 80's, it had less to do with personality or interests, and more to do with simply by default being lumped together as the "straight", non-drug contingent.

I know from personal experience that the estrangement from Brian stung Carl deeply. I asked him conversationally "how's your brother doing?" on several occasions. At first the response was "he's doing OK." But then one day, not long after the stories of Landy's forced estrangement started hitting Rolling Stone, I asked the question and Carl just sort of exploded in frustration, not at me but at the situation and Landy. His hurt was so palpable, I stopped asking him about Brian -- I never wished to cause him hurt in the first place.

My gut feeling is that Landy was responsible for the estrangement, and that's certainly who Carl blamed that day.

It was when Al was working on "Cottonfields," right? At the C50 show I saw, when Al introduced "Cottonfields" he mentioned that Dennis had helped him with arranging it.

Obviously there was the disastrous 1977 tarmac blow-up, but there did seem to be affection between Al and Dennis. As phirnis mentioned, you can see it in the 1983 Seattle show, and Al gives Dennis a quick little handshake at the end of the bow on "Surfer Girls" when it looks like Dennis defused a situation between Carl and Mike.

Plus there's the shopping jaunt together in London: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM6g1EYAhto

I think they liked each other but their lifestyles were SO different they probably didn't spend much time together.

Its been written + spoken How Bruce helped Dennis with his piano playing.. They both surfed + rode motorcycles +hot cars.. Both California boys + single.. They had more in common than ya think.. While Bruce has said NO to drugs he says.     Who says he didnt drink + get drunk on occasion..? There  is a book written last 10 yrs about the scene in southern California including the laurel canyon scene.. In this book Gram Parsons + Flying Burritto Bros Band were the headliners playing the Topanga corral. .Bruce was there partying + chattin up the ladies.. Another story written has  a  tale Of Gram + Keith Richard goin to the same club and Bruce was there and during that time Bruce was unmarried.. Bruce was hangin where the HIP people were. .Bruce is no square Just carefull.. And how do you associate with BB+ Terry Melcher+ the musical elite and NOT enjoy your self.. ??   This is not an attack just thinkin out loud..

Please explain what was goin on between Mike + Carl.  I wasn't aware of this..thx

I always thought, mainly because they were all married at such a young age, and because of their values, that the guys spent very little time together away from the studio/stage.

"God bless you Bruce" on the sleeve notes of POB album suggests they were buddies.  If indeed it is Bruce Johnstone Dennis was referring too.  And as far as buddies go Dennis and Mike were closer than some may think I'd imagine.  How else do you explain the trips they took fishing and stuff and Mike and Dennis writing some stuff together?  I think they were close in a love hate way, and were family after all.  They also had a fair few things in common!

All more great reasons why I would buy a Bruce book. What stories he could tell.

Agreed.  But most likely, he never will

Both Dennis and Al mooned the photographer during their 1968 visit to the Salt Lake City, UT flats ;D

One factor to add to the equation - four of these guys were family, and about as close family as you can get. That's got to color any interpersonal relationship to a considerably deep hue.

"I always thought, mainly because they were all married at such a young age, and because of their values, that the guys spent very little time together away from the studio/stage."

Excellent point, but a quick survey of the concert listings would indicate that, in the 60s & 70s at least, time spent on tour or in the studio made up maybe 50% of their day: these guys lived in each others pockets for decades.

I remember several years ago that Bruce did say he was intending to write a book about his life in music. He said it definitely wouldn't be warts and all or kiss and tell though.

This was about the same time that he was talking about issuing a non-solo solo album so I will believe it when I see it.

If he ever does get write it and it is published it will probably be fairly superficial, but certainly feature some extremely interesting info, anecdotes and perspectives.

I've always wondered about the relationships between the guys - Bruce for example has often said he's "Brian Wilson's #1 fan" or something like that.

Did / does Bruce have any kind of relationship with Brian?

Well, when Bruce had his heart bypass back in 2004, Brian phoned him, personally.

What is he was able to dictate it into a machine with a microphone hooked up that he could adjust the whole time???

I'd kinda think that would be expected no matter what your relationship, I mean, heart bypass, holy sh*t.

Bruce seemed quite surprised (and thrilled) when he told me about it. The phone call, not the bypass.

Very nice, I just about spit out my drink

Bruce is a bag of mysteries, rarely do I get the logic behind sth. he says. So, Brian phoned him to congratulate with well-done operation - oh really? Is it anything of news? Of course not, just a mere dialog of 2 BBs members, they are (former) colleagues.