The Smiley Smile Message Board

I think most BB fans agree that it's a good thing that no photos have surfaced (I think?) of Dennis with Manson (or his girls), but it seems improbable (to me) that none were taken. I mean, this was a guy (and a posse), admittedly impoverished, but they were hanging out with a rock star... it seems strange that nobody ever took a pic, despite their (several month?) association together.

My hunch says that maybe some were taken and were purposely destroyed, or kept back somehow by Dennis and the BBs.
Does anyone know more?

Side note: I also think that if Never Learn Not to Love, despite being as brilliant a Dennis production as it is, would never, ever have seen the light of day if the Manson murders happened before its release (regardless of Manson's name not being on the credit).  Not in 1969, 2013, or ever, really. That song could be Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again to the 10th power, or a song equivalent to Dennis' Pet Sounds, and it would've probably stayed unreleased forever.

One wonders what might have happened if the 20/20 album had been pressed and slated for release just a week after the murders - would the band have scrambled to destroy the records and remove the song? Maybe would've resulted in 20/20 being like the coveted Butcher baby cover.

Just another bizarre what-if scenario that popped into my head with the BBs.

just my opinion but considering Manson is one of the most notable criminals of the 20th century if photo did exist it would've been a wise move to never let them see daylight and best to destroy them.

Why?

I agree -- why is it a good thing that no photos have surfaced? Wouldn't you want to see that photo? I would.
It should be noted that a week after the murders -- mid-August 1969 -- no one was (publicly) implicating Charles Manson for anything connected to Tate-LaBianca.

As it is, there are few photos of Manson in the pre-arrest era. Happening upon a photo of Manson and Tex Watson together -- let alone one with Dennis Wilson -- borders on highly improbable.

Even Jakobson's long-lost video footage of the Family back in the day didn't feature Dennis.

No one was publicly implicating Manson to the Tate LaBianca murders a week after they happened because the police were still investigating and didn't know the whole story.  It's understandable that the group and Dennis' family would want to disassociate him from a savage murderer.

Great info as always Howie!

Photos were much rarer back then than now. They didn't have iPhones and digital cameras where you could take limitless photos for near-free. Cameras were mostly owned by families to take pics of the kids, or professionals. Manson didn't have a lifestyle where he was going to own a Kodak instamatic. Nor did he have much money to buy film and pay for developing., neither of which was cheap. As it was, he was so often in trouble with the law for various crimes well before the murders that it's doubtful he'd want to pose for anyone's Instamatic or Polaroid.

Ah, those were the days! Privacy - remember that?

Back in '98 while writing my book on Dennis I was told a certain well known L.A. figure (who i won't name) had a photo of Dennis with Manson and some other family members taken in 1968. The existence of this photo was confirmed by several others who had seen it while visiting the un-named person. I reached out to the L.A. guy, who did give me an interview for the book, but would not share the photo. I never saw it, but i do believe it exists, or existed at one time. The photo that is in the book of Manson sitting playing a guitar in DW's home reportedly was "borrowed" from the police file and ended up with another L.A. guy who gave it to me for the book, subsequently the orig. print of that photo was stolen from me, although i have a decent color copy.

Man that"s cold someone close to you stealin that photo.. Myself I could care less about the photo.. And photos of Dennis with him or Brian etc..EHH.. They should be destroyed. The man deserves no attention or fame from association with BB.. Im surprised how well the BB survived the association..

It's understandable that the group and Dennis' family would want to disassociate him from a savage murderer.

that.

Yep, I just suspect that somewhere on planet Earth, past or present, there exists (or existed) some photographic evidence of the two of them together. I'm not necessarily advocating the "release" of said photo(s), since it's obviously a super sensitive topic for family members even if Dennis is no longer with us. Just curious about it, that's all.

Despite the fact that photography was (much) less prevalent in the 60s compared to now, I'd still be surprised if no pix of them together were ever, ever taken.

What? funny!  :lol :lol :lol

Apparently you didn't "meet the Swinger" - a camera that as an 8 yr old I owned and the film was about $1.99

     There appears to be a photo of Manson & Denny in this video nut it might be Photoshopped:

http://www.beatlestomanson.com (http://www.beatlestomanson.com)

WooT!!  Instamatics weren't expensive either, although I think I was about 10 or 12 when I got mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQv1csINTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4hkEahJCbc

Yeah Fake...that photo of Dennis is from '77.

I'm very surprised that all subsequent issues of 20/20 still carry the Manson track on it.

I'm guessing it may have been decided that doing so inadvertently would call more attention to the Manson association if the track were removed from further issues of the album. Just a wild guess.

I think it's one of Dennis' best productions, and if it were not co-written by Manson, I bet the band would be proud of the song, and it would've been included on some other BB compilation(s) over the years. It's only ever been on 20/20 (and a 45 single of the song), right? Never on any subsequent BB-issued comp?

Since Manson wasn't actually credited on the album, does anyone here know what year/era it became common knowledge that Manson co-wrote Never Learn Not to Love?

I'd say March 6, 1970 when the Manson - Lie (Love and the Terror Cult) LP was released on the Awareness label...which contained his recording of Cease To Exist.

Never Learn Not To Love is included on The Capitol Years - The Beach Boys, World Records P65 (1980).

Also, on this German compilation:
(http://www.lpcd.de/1/H3293_01.jpg)
(http://www.lpcd.de/1/H3293_02.jpg)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned their performance of it on The Mike Douglas Show  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0v2bVX8j4 

I've mentioned before that this is one of the most prime examples of how Dennis was stepping up to be the 'face' of the group at this time;
however, he seemed to have rapidly lost that status as soon as his connection to the situation was exploited.