The Smiley Smile Message Board

just putting this out there to discuss, I think this mix (with the longer take and the falsetto swoohes) would have been enough to put this song to #1 back in the day.  I remember a few friends at the time saying that they liked the song back then (original mix), but felt that it was missing something. :)

What are you going on about?

Huh???? What song are you talking about....?

IF "Rock and Roll Music" MIC mix was released in 1976?

was my header... it vanished...grrrr

Fun Fact: The falsetto is in the original if you listen reallllllly closely.

Doc Smiley, I believe you're right. After I bought that single in early June, 1976, I thought it was an abbreviated version of what was to come. Then the album was released, and again the last verse was left off of that version.  I thought, what the hell!! Then to make matters worse, that Summer there was a radio show and Carl was interviewed and talked about an oldies album and a new album. The longer "Hot" mix of Rock & Roll Music was broadcast, complete with the last verse. Then the bootlegs. Up until the release of the MIC version (which is different still than the previous '76 broadcast and bootlegged version) I've been pushing for the release on the message boards. Far and away better than the released version(s) and for the life of me can't figure out who's decision it was not to release the long version with the original third verse intact. The drums also sound great, along with the falsetto in there.

The day after I bought the R & R Music single, I asked Brian to sign it. I shoulda asked him then why it wasn't closer to the Chuck Berry original. Around that time, the single of Rock & Roll Music by the Beatles was released. I thought THAT '64 version had the edge over the Beach Boys remake with all the synths and stuff.

The Beach Boys release the new mix of "Rock and Roll Music" in 1976.

America continues to ignore them.

Am I wrong or is the Hot mix different? I hear more wooshing in it.

Yes, it's totally different. There's all kinds of stuff going on that ain't in the 15 BO version, or at least is so heavily buried in the mix on the original that you can't hear it...

Might be me, but I think the 'hot' mix is akin to the stereo "Cottonfields" 45 mix - same multitrack, but with all the faders up.

Well I wanna hear a faders up mix then ;)

Made in California, disc 4, track 10.

But what is it exactly that makes the MIC mix so much better? I think it's the louder autoharp. The percussive effect gives the track way more drive. What do you other guys think?

Agree 100%. The 15 BO version is constantly stopping and starting (and not in a good Heroes & Villains way), whereas the MIC version seems to be one big long relentless power-drive of a song.

I don't think America was ignoring them at that time. They were doing crazy-big stadium tours at that time. I was there. Crazy-big stadium tours with crazy-big crowds. The problem was the fans wanted 'Endless Summer'. They wanted to hear the hits. Yeah, the 'new' mix coulda/shoulda been #1. Maybe a Grammy award would have been considered? Great come back story.

I cannot see anything to be positive about regarding the Beach Boys version of Rock 'n' Roll Music in any mix you suggest other than the legendary cold (all faders down) mix. It is pretty much everything i hate about the fall of this once great band in one record. Does not rock, does not roll though i concede it is music but so is Metal Machine Music and for that matter Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band both of which are more easy listening by comparison. If Brian had Jasper Dailey  record all the lead vocals on Pet Sounds it would still be a better record than this monstrosity. If there is anyone in the entire world who thinks it is better than either Chuck Berry's or The Beatles versions well there's always one who spoils it for the rest. I cannot believe i just re-listened to this crap. I swore i would never listen to it again.
What if this and in fact nothing post-Holland had been released ? Would the band be held in higher esteem than it is today ? It is a measure of just how good they were at their peak and just after,  that the awful sh** they have released over the last 37 years (with one or two notable exceptions) has not completely destroyed their reputation. Sorry i need to go and calm down.

But you said Hot mix. The MIC mix is not the hot mix...

Whoa!  No kidding; time for you to meditate!

having never heard the "HOT" mix from 1976 (other than a poor fm copy) I won't say that it had what it takes to be #1 , but
I feel that if the MIC mix or something very close to it had been released, it may have had the legs to reach #1 instead of the #6 that it finished on the charts with.  the starting and stopping of the released 76 version is oe good reason why..

I've heard what is referred to as the "Hot mix" of Rock & Roll Music since the early 80's. It's been bootlegged since then. The new MIC version is a little different, but to my ears not dramatically different than this "Hot mix" that's been circulating for years. The MIC version is obviously the definitive mix. I think the released single and album mixes are a little different too, aren't they? Or is my memory fading?

Your memory fading?  WHO would ever accuse you of that....

"Hot mix" is a generic term for the unreleased version: the box set track has all the elements of the hot mix, just with all the faders up.

I have spoken. It is so.  :old

Indeed they are. Single mix is on Best of the Brother Years.

...with no background vocals on the first verse.

Only you, Bgas.  You're the only one that's ever accused me of that.

Cool.  Makes sense to me!

I believe that the Beach Boys' single of Rock and Roll Music actually made it to #5 on the Billboard Hot 100, while Chuck Berry's version made it to #8. I don't recall the Beatles releasing a single of this song in the US, particularly around the time the Beach Boys' release. Is there a higher-charting version out there than the one by the Beach Boys?

Personally, I prefer the sparse production on the single release, and it remains my favorite.  I recall that back when the masters for the single were recovered (or whatever really happened) and that mix was included on Best of the Brother Years, a lot of folks were raving about how much better it was the the 15 Big Ones Mix. It's still nice, of course, to have the Made in California version.

But...But... I could swear I hear other stuff in Toasty Mix that's not on MIK[e's] mix

Two weeks after The Beach Boys single of R&R Music was released, on June 7, 1976 Capitol released "Rock & Roll Music" a Beatles comp, with the song included.

It should also be noted that 15 Big Ones (released a month later with Rock & Roll Music) went to #8. Not bad for an album (half of which consisting of oldies covers) riding on the popularity of Endless Summer.

Yes, but I imagine what the original poster is getting at is: what if the Beach Boys '76 comeback single and album hadn't been so absolutely sh*t???

To add to this discussion, "Rock and Roll Music" was released as a single on May 24. Reprise didn't release "It's O.K." as a single until August 30. Al commented on how that probably effected the success of that single in a recent interview since it was a summer song and it wasn't released until the end of summer. It hit No. 29.

Obviously "It's O.K." is no masterpiece, but given the success of "Endless Summer" and "Rock and Roll Music," one would think "It's O.K." probably could have climbed the charts even more had it been released in June or July, right? Or even instead of "Rock and Roll Music."

Oh, come on. '15 big Ones' isn't that bad. It's a fun album.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Dennis was fantastic on 'In the Still of the Night'? The rest of the boys were singing the doo-wop backing vocals that we now know they loved so much. I think that song is over looked and should always be included in any Dennis compilation. They should have found a place for 'Sea Cruise' on side 1.

I like a lot of the oldies covers from that mid 70's era, those included on lps and those left off that have trickled out over the years.

As for the MIC  version of R&R Music, the differences caught my attention immediately.  Those added (or mixed way up) background vocals and some other nuances really seemed to take the cut to a higher and better sonic and creative level.   So many cuts on MIC seeem to have an extra oomph or to have been tweaked one way or another.  Makes for a great listening experience.

I intend to borrow heavily from the MIC box in making some new comp playlists.  Actually , the sequencing of the songs on MIC make a wonderful playlist just as they are.  Most fun I've had with a new BB release since Hawthorne or the first boxset.

No, you aren't. I love Dennis' vocals on In The Still Of The Night. My favorite cover from 15BO. I agree about Sea Cruise too, and I think that and Shake, Rattle and Roll should have gotten the nod over Blueberry Hill and A Casual Look.

Love Dennis' vocals on In the Still of the Night.  One of the best songs on the album IMO.

Don't really care much for the MIC version of Rock and Roll music.  The prominent falsettos detract from my enjoyment of the song, and there is just way too much stuff mixed up way too high, poorly blended and all competing for your attention.  Too much reverb on Mike's lead vocal as well - sorta sounds like he's singing in a cave.  By far the worst of the three released versions.

The 15 Big Ones album version is a better mix, but by far my favorite version of Rock and Roll music is the single version.  Unfortunately, on CD the single version is only available on the Best of the Brother Years.  The single version also appeared on the LP Ten Years of Harmony, as well as the European CD, but the US CD used the album version of the song.

Dennis is the Greatest! But that is one of the worst songs off 15 Big Ones! Denny didn't do a very good job on the vocals, and overall, it plain sucks and is painfully boring. Just my opinion, however

Thank goodness somebody said it.

I definitely agree - it's still God awful but in the context of the topic I left that part out - plus presumed it went without saying y'know ;)

We'd miss Love You, the underrated L.A. Light Album, the criminally underrated The Beach Boys '85, and probably That's Why God Made The Radio, but overall I agree with you. They should have broken up after Holland, regardless of the fatal Endless Summer compilation. Instead, their image is all but destroyed to the general public  :'(

Glad some of you agree with me. I really cannot find anything of real merit post-Holland beyond a handful of tracks and that's a small hand.
Around 1989/90 i was playing in a band and when we played in the states i'd often be asked who my favourite band was. This was 4 or 5 years after i had "discovered" Pet Sounds and Smile. When i replied Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys the usual reaction was total laughter. No-one could believe it. The Beach Boys were just seen as a joke band and there was i like a total dumb-ass in my chelsea boots and paisley shirt saying "no no you've got it all wrong, listen to this, it's the most amazing album ever...this one's called Fire it's unbelievable". The damage to their reputation from crap like 15 big ones and the career that followed is so sad.
Now has anyone got a faders down mix of Rock 'n' Roll Music ? I think that could be the keeper.

Yup. I just pull up the fader on a different track when doing so to prevent silence ;)

I agree; my favorite version is also the single version. While "Rock And roll Music" is flawed and far from their best cover, back in the day - summer 1976 - it actually sounded pretty good on AM radio, especially when it immediately followed the radio station jingle/call letters lead-in. For years it also rocked in concert. I don't particularly care for the later, slowed down live versions; it tends to drag. The Beach Boys' "Rock And Roll Music" might've peaked on the 1979 Midnight Special; great drumming by Dennis and Brian on bass!

I'm a big fan of 15 Big Ones (Brian's Phil Spector/rock & roll album), and I'm a fan of Dennis' later vocals (his work on Pacific Ocean Blue is timeless), but, other than "In The Back Of My Mind", I think Dennis' lead vocal on "In The Still Of The Night" is his worst vocal ever released. It was his "token song" on the album, but it just didn't work. I like Brian's arrangement on the song; maybe he could've chosen another lead vocalist. And to think they were sitting on "Sea Cruise", jeez....

.

Ah, to have been a fly on the wall during the decision-making process involving the songs recorded and released during the fateful, frenetic, fustian "15 Big One's/Brian's Back" period...yeesh!! I remember that the girl next door (who, as is all too often the case, had a seriously hotter sister...) got into the LP and kept playin' it and playin' it...I finally went out and got a used copy of Pet Sounds out of the record store (hey, remember those??) where I worked and left it at her doorstep anonymously with a note that read (paraphrasing) "If you like that one, PLEASE try this one."  :smokin

Michael Row The Boat Ashore shows Brian could still produce at a high level and should have been on MIC.

The only thing I have against the new MIC mix is the reverb. And yes, along with other songs that were touched by too much reverb, this is the one thing for me that detracts from the song. Otherwise, the falsetto doesn't bother me - it's a signature of Beach Boys songs, but like you say the reverb makes him sound like he's singing in a cave. I still think it's the best version of the three though; the thing rocks, and I especially like the drums. Just as I did when I first heard this version on the radio in '76.

Edit: I just listened to the song again, and there's not that much reverb. It ain't bad.  Wonder who the drummer was.  Dennis? Ricky?

Count me in as one who likes the MIC mix.  Yeah, it's a little 'in your face' and the drums and bass sound like they are on the verge of saturation, but it works for an otherwise dull production.  It's certainly not one of their greatest covers in the first place, but this mix has a lot of life in it, IMO.  And the reverb on the vocal doesn't bother me a bit; in fact I think it sounds very classic, and would have fit in very well with the mid-70s nostalgia vibe that was kicked off by the likes of American Graffiti and Happy Days.

You can also count me in as someone who doesn't get very excited about any BBs releases after Holland--actually Surf's Up in my case.  There are a few standout tunes in the later years, and that's where I lean heavily on comps.

Personally I don't see it changing anything. IMO it is an okay single at best and I'm a pretty big beach boys fan.

 :o  ;)

(http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w605/SloopJohnnyB/bbcards001_zps4f32a2e4.jpg) (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/SloopJohnnyB/media/bbcards001_zps4f32a2e4.jpg.html)

(http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w605/SloopJohnnyB/bbcards002_zps11b77ab3.jpg) (http://s1332.photobucket.com/user/SloopJohnnyB/media/bbcards002_zps11b77ab3.jpg.html)

What? The images have been removed :(

Great pic of Carl - he looks really cool.

great unreleased unpublished photos, I've never seen these before..yes Carl looks great , also the Rovell girls in their bikinis are even better.. never seen Brian in a speedo before though, what's up with Mikes hair in the top one??? lol never seen that before, toupee maybe? and what is Dennis doing to that girl in the background? :hat

Sorry! I posted those photos on the trading card thread also and I guess they got moved to that topic thread. Still learning about posting photos.... :P