|
Title: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bringahorseinhere? on October 09, 2013, 06:42:07 AM does anyone have the book and the gizmo?
what does the 'little black box' look like?....... missed out on the book and gadget years ago with much regret, I believed they were autographed too... I wonder how the update is going and whether he'll re spacilize his product again.. RickB Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: hypehat on October 09, 2013, 07:32:57 AM I always wondered about the Spatializer - is there any way to roughly replicate the sound with EQ/a VST/hi-fi or something? Or for Stephen to make some more.... maybe with a repress of his book.....? ;D
Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: buddhahat on October 09, 2013, 07:43:49 AM is there any way to roughly replicate the sound with EQ I think you just gave SWD a heart attack. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: hypehat on October 09, 2013, 07:51:33 AM :lol
Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: LeeDempsey on October 09, 2013, 09:00:15 AM Most modern A/V receivers have some type of 2-channel matrix processing mode (my Denon receiver labels it "Matrix") that will use some combination of signal delay plus sum of 2 channels (L+R) information and difference of 2 channels (L-R, or reversing the phase of one channel and combining them) information in order to create a synthesized 4-channel effect from two speakers. These wil give you a similar effect to the Spatializer -- ie sound will appear to come from outside the boundaries of the speakers, in front of you, behind you -- but Steve's device includes additional proprietary technology that further refines the experience.
Lee Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bgas on October 09, 2013, 09:50:27 AM Most modern A/V receivers have some type of 2-channel matrix processing mode (my Denon receiver labels it "Matrix") that will use some combination of signal delay plus sum of 2 channels (L+R) information and difference of 2 channels (L-R, or reversing the phase of one channel and combining them) information in order to create a synthesized 4-channel effect from two speakers. These wil give you a similar effect to the Spatializer -- ie sound will appear to come from outside the boundaries of the speakers, in front of you, behind you -- but Steve's device includes additional proprietary technology that further refines the experience. Lee In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: LeeDempsey on October 09, 2013, 10:43:16 AM Most modern A/V receivers have some type of 2-channel matrix processing mode (my Denon receiver labels it "Matrix") that will use some combination of signal delay plus sum of 2 channels (L+R) information and difference of 2 channels (L-R, or reversing the phase of one channel and combining them) information in order to create a synthesized 4-channel effect from two speakers. These wil give you a similar effect to the Spatializer -- ie sound will appear to come from outside the boundaries of the speakers, in front of you, behind you -- but Steve's device includes additional proprietary technology that further refines the experience. Lee In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available Let me caveat my previous post by saying that I don't own one of the Spatializer units. I'm just going off of Steve's assertion that his patented processing circuit / algorithm is better than competing versions labeled "Matrix", "SRS", etc. I have no empirical evidence to either confirm or refute that claim. I did have a DVD player at one point that actually incorporated a branded Spatializer function -- but I believe I recall Steve saying that the digital Spatializer circuit was not the same thing as his analog device. Lee Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: STE on October 09, 2013, 12:31:53 PM I have both, but the Spatializier never worked for me, it was dead-on-arrival.. I never asked for a new one, dunno why.. I regret it now. But the book it's fascinating! Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bgas on October 09, 2013, 12:57:29 PM I have both, but the Spatializier never worked for me, it was dead-on-arrival.. I never asked for a new one, dunno why.. I regret it now. But the book it's fascinating! Can you post a copy of the book? Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 01:00:37 PM Quote In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available Comment: Not just lousy, but extremely lousy. Bgas, I appreciate you casting me in the roll of a louse. Dictionary Definition of LOUSY a : totally repulsive : contemptible, cheap, cruddy, deplorable, despicable, dirty, grubby, lame, contemptible, mean, nasty, paltry, pitiable, pitiful, ratty, scabby, scummy, scurvy, sneaking, sorry. WOW! I never thought of myself in this way. Maybe I should stop supporting this board with my experiences and funds if after the thousands of hours I’ve spent writing for you fans only gets me the rating of “extremely lousy.” You know all the stuff I’ve posted on this thread would fill two books? What do you want from me? Bgas, You should be careful what you call people. Posting on the Internet does not exempt you from slander litigation. It would be very easy for me to call one of my lawyers, trace your IP address and make a case. Of course I’m not about to do that, but you had better watch your accusations because if you continue with these types of remarks, one day you’ll wind up in a lawsuit. F.Y.I. First it’s not spacializer. It is spelled S P A T I A L I Z E R, a United States Registered Trademark, currently owned by DTS. My work with The Beach Boy organization preceded the development of Spatializer® by four years. So Spatializer and any Beach Boy production of music do not have any relationship. A number of years ago I decided to offer a MODIFIED Spatializer chip that would come as close as possible to the matrix used in my Beach Boy recordings and cost only a few dollars. It took 200 man-hours of research to develop the circuit. I had the parts assembled by an outside prototype laboratory, plus several hours to make each of the units I offered for sale with the first edition of my book. I LOST about $15 per unit and another $5 on the book for each combination of book and device sold. I did not mind the loss, as it was not my intention to profit from the device. Rather I wanted those fans that could afford the device to be able to hear my recordings as they were meant to be reproduced. I also wanted the fans to have an affordable offering so that as many fans as possible could experience the sound. So I took the loss and made one hundred units. It took three people two weeks to assemble all these units into something a fan could insert into their sound system. A full-time secretary labored a week to keep track of the money, addresses, packaging and handling for the one-time offering. I had the book privately printed and bound. Each was numbered and signed. At that time I made it clear that this offer was not going to be repeated. Why? (1) Because it was a big pain-in-the-ass to do it and each unit was sold at a loss of around $25 each. (2) This was also conceived as a collectable item, for those interested in the engineering aspect of my productions. (3) This was the only legal way to provide this listening experience to the fans. The offer will not be repeated out of respect to those fans that bought a numbered/signed book and device as a collectable item as well as a usable item. Fast-forward a few years, to today. With audio streaming becoming something that anyone can do with a computer, and given the educational allowance granted by the copywrite law, I hit on the idea of offering a series of Study-Videos based on my experiences with The Beach Boys (and other artists). This was to include the book Recording The Beach Boys. At my website http://www.swdstudyvideos.com you will find an enjoyable selection of study-videos to view and listen to in the corrected matrix version. You don’t need any other equipment to experience the full-spatial content of the music therein. At the website there is a photo of the current matrix at the Cool, Cool Water selection. I even took the cover off. You may obtain one for $25,000 if you wish, or you can just position your speakers as directed in the study-video and listen. The book is not there yet. It’s publication is running late because my associate, Will C. Productions, is located in Colorado and the recent floods in that area has slowed down work on this book. Also historical proofing by Brad Ellott is running behind due to some personal complications, which must take president over his review. The book should become available within a week or two. In the meantime, I think you will enjoy what you find at the website. So there you are bgas. See, I’m not such a lousy guy after all. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 01:09:12 PM I have both, but the Spatializier never worked for me, it was dead-on-arrival.. I never asked for a new one, dunno why.. I regret it now. But the book it's fascinating! Comment: Please contact me over your failed unit. (IT IS NOT A SPATIALIZER®). I am an honest person and don't want to cheat anyone. Also the book is published under copyright and cannot be posted or duplicted. Once it’s published on the Internet I suppose you could copy it, but what would be the point. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 09, 2013, 01:13:53 PM Keep up the good work Mr. Desper, the BBs music and this board owe a whole lot to your aural wizardly.
Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: GuyO on October 09, 2013, 01:18:06 PM Bgas... well done on making a complete fool out of yourself.
Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Phoenix on October 09, 2013, 01:29:12 PM So there you are bgas. See, I’m not such a lousy guy after all.[/size] ~swd ;D You're an absolute treasure and I hope you know that. I have a feeling that you actually might. :) Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 01:47:08 PM Bgas... well done on making a complete fool out of yourself. Comment to Bgas: When the use of email became commonplace in business, I use to write inner-office memos to all the engineers and other staff who worked for me. But I was merciless. I would say things like, "only a fool would place resistor R31 before capacitor C4" or "Do you have the ears of a fish? I can't believe how stupid that circuit sounded." Then one day one of the executives came to me and told me to lighten up, go re-read some of your old memos, you know these are people you are writing to -- not just an address on the screen. So I had a talk with myself. I apologized to the staff and took a picture of everyone that I kept in a little box by my computer. Then, every time I wrote to someone I would put their photo in front of me by the screen to remind me that there was a person at the other end-- and that emails and memos don't go away. That was a big lesson for me. I’m certain you were not completely thinking through what you said because I've been there too. So having said that, please continue to contribute your thoughts and opinions on this board. We're all BB fans here. That we have in common. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Mikie on October 09, 2013, 02:18:32 PM Scorch! ;D
Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 09, 2013, 03:46:11 PM The book is not there yet. It’s publication is running late because my associate, Will C. Productions, is located in Colorado and the recent floods in that area has slowed down work on this book. Also historical proofing by Brad Ellott is running behind due to some personal complications, which must take president over his review. The book should become available within a week or two. In the meantime, I think you will enjoy what you find at the website. Yeah... where have we heard that before ? Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Custom Machine on October 09, 2013, 04:08:23 PM Stephen, I have thoroughly enjoyed your Study Videos. Thanks so much for the time and effort you have put into compiling and posting them. Hope to see more in the future.
Could you clarify the status of Recording the Beach Boys? For a number of years I've been under the impression that you were planning to write and publish an expanded edition of the original book, which I purchased from you in 2002. From reading your comments above I'm getting the impression that you are planning to post the original text on your website. Will there be new info as well? If so, will that be available on the website or in printed form? The original book contained some fascinating info, but there is obviously much, much more which could be added, as evidenced by all the informative posts you have shared with us on this board over the years. It would be great to see all that info compiled into a book with the events appearing in chronological order. Also wondering if the Brad Elliott you mention is the same Beach Boys historian who wrote the book The Beach Boys on Record 1961-81, operated the Surf's Up mailing list, and worked on some Beach Boys compilations for Capitol Records? The reason I'm asking is because for most fans he sort of fell off the radar screen and hasn't been heard from for many years. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Custom Machine on October 09, 2013, 04:10:01 PM The book is not there yet. It’s publication is running late because my associate, Will C. Productions, is located in Colorado and the recent floods in that area has slowed down work on this book. Also historical proofing by Brad Ellott is running behind due to some personal complications, which must take president over his review. The book should become available within a week or two. In the meantime, I think you will enjoy what you find at the website. Yeah... where have we heard that before ? Hmmm .... just saw Andrew's post, sounds like it's the same guy. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bgas on October 09, 2013, 07:24:11 PM Hmm... DTS, eh? It appears they let all the TRademarks expire for the all of the Spatializer products they own:
http://www.trademarks411.com/marks/76039195-spatialzer-virtualsurround http://www.trademarks411.com/trademark-search?c=&gs=&ic=&ld=&logo=&o=DTS+LICENSING+LIMITED&oa=&page=1&q=&sort=date Of course I don't claim to know anything about the trademark business, so it's very possible that I'm misinterpreting the documents available on-line. If not, perhaps it would be possible to get the wiring diagram for the original Spatializer and make some up for BBs fans Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 07:59:17 PM Stephen, I have thoroughly enjoyed your Study Videos. Thanks so much for the time and effort you have put into compiling and posting them. Hope to see more in the future. And you shall. COMMENTS FOLLOW: Could you clarify the status of Recording the Beach Boys? For a number of years I've been under the impression that you were planning to write and publish an expanded edition of the original book, which I purchased from you in 2002. From reading your comments above I'm getting the impression that you are planning to post the original text on your website. Will there be new info as well? Part One will be somewhat expanded. Part Two will be greatly expanded. If so, will that be available on the website or in printed form? It will all be on my website soon. The original book contained some fascinating info, but there is obviously much, much more which could be added, as evidenced by all the informative posts you have shared with us on this board over the years. It would be great to see all that info compiled into a book with the events appearing in chronological order. If I wished to write a conventional book at a $35 price I would just take all my posts here and publish them. But you can do that by clicking on my name and then clicking on "all the posts by this person" and they are in chronological order. When I first started a revision of the book I put all my posts, dating back to the very first post on the original smile website. After spending hours and hours of trying to arrange them all, I realized the task was going to take way too much of my time. The secret to any good historical accounting is the index. That was such an incredible time-consuming job I just gave up. When I put everything together without any editing or expansion it would take a book of 2000 pages to contain everything. It was just too much. If I knew a fan that lived near me and wished to co-author a book I might be interested, but I don't. So I decided that the really important issue with the book was the music. Not just writing about it but the actual hearing of the music the way it was meant to be heard. So the book is about RECORDING the Beach Boys and that is the subject of this new expanded version. Also wondering if the Brad Elliott you mention is the same Beach Boys historian who wrote the book The Beach Boys on Record 1961-81, operated the Surf's Up mailing list, and worked on some Beach Boys compilations for Capitol Records? The reason I'm asking is because for most fans he sort of fell off the radar screen and hasn't been heard from for many years. As far as I'm concerned Brad Ellott is the Beach Boy historian. He worked on the accuracy of the first publication and now is reviewing the expanded version(s) for its veracity. As to what he is up to, I can't really speak for him, but he is active in the historical field. Due to an unexpected situation that surfaced a few days ago he is currently occupied, so the book will wait. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bgas on October 09, 2013, 08:28:27 PM Yeah. I hope that one day we'll see your book published.
But as it appears you're counting on the help of one of the least liked people in the BBs field, I have my doubts. I wish you the best of luck; I hope you're not paying Brad in advance Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 08:34:47 PM Hmm... DTS, eh? It appears they let all the TRademarks expire for the all of the Spatializer products they own: http://www.trademarks411.com/marks/76039195-spatialzer-virtualsurround http://www.trademarks411.com/trademark-search?c=&gs=&ic=&ld=&logo=&o=DTS+LICENSING+LIMITED&oa=&page=1&q=&sort=date Of course I don't claim to know anything about the trademark business, so it's very possible that I'm misinterpreting the documents available on-line. If not, perhaps it would be possible to get the wiring diagram for the original Spatializer and make some up for BBs fans COMMENT: SPATIALIZER® is currently alive with trademark number 1503712. Reference: US PATENT & TRADEMARK OFFICE >>> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4805:7jeyjl.2.22 Please be aware that this is a timed website and you may need to start your search over. Just do a "Basic Word Mark Search." In order to fabricate a Spatializer circuit you must obtain the Spatializer chip from Panasonic. It has not been made for years. However before the foundry closed, I bought all the remaining chips. If you want me to make a few, send me a check for $2,000 and I'll get to work. If you read my last post you will realize that Spatializer technology was developed four years after I left the Beach Boy organization. Your best listen is to go to my website and follow the instructions. The Study-Videos presented at that website were re-mastered using the original matrix, NOT SPATIALIZER. The original recording matrix is much more complex then the Spatializer circuit, which is taught in patent #5,412,731. The original matrix is designed for recording whereas Spatializer technology realized in the chip is concerned with reproduction. If you decode the original matrix with a Spatializer chip it will come close, but not as good as you will hear on the Study-Videos. With the production of those, I used the latest revisions to the invention to re-master what you hear. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 08:51:03 PM Yeah. I hope that one day we'll see your book published. But as it appears you're counting on the help of one of the least liked people in the BBs field, I have my doubts. I wish you the best of luck; I hope you're not paying Brad in advance COMMENT: Brad Elliott has been my friend for years. I don't know what he did to get on your shitlist, but to me he has always been of great help and happy to be of service. Actually the book is published and on-line ready to go. After his review Will C. will just change the password to the one I use on my website, and the green button turns brown. I'm just as anxious to publish part-one as you are to read it, so it won’t be long. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 09:46:37 PM Great news!
You've been a fantastic person for all the years I've "known" you on this board and I greatly appreciate all of the work you've put in to sharing your wisdom and memories. I look forward to whatever else you have in store for us! Have you heard the new vocals-only mixes of Slip on Through, Our Sweet Love and This Whole World on the Beach Boys' new boxed set, Made In California? I'm sure they're on YouTube by now... Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Stephen W. Desper on October 09, 2013, 10:27:01 PM Great news! You've been a fantastic person for all the years I've "known" you on this board and I greatly appreciate all of the work you've put in to sharing your wisdom and memories. I look forward to whatever else you have in store for us! Have you heard the new vocals-only mixes of Slip on Through, Our Sweet Love and This Whole World on the Beach Boys' new boxed set, Made In California? I'm sure they're on YouTube by now... COMMENT: Thanks for your compliments. And, NO I have not bought the box set. I'm waiting to see if Brother Records or some record company takes the time to send me a box set. After all they would not have those songs without me. But then most of the time they don't bother to give credit either. I'm just happy to release my re-masterings of these songs using the matrix. I thought about using the vocals from Made In California and working them into Part One of the book, but that would put the publication date back again, and I really want to just get this book out there. ~swd Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Micha on October 10, 2013, 12:33:20 AM In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available I wonder what you were thinking when you wrote that. Thank goodness obviously Mr. Desper is a gentleman and will still give us the pleasure of his postings in the future. I'm very thankful about that. I must get his book when it's out. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: buddhahat on October 10, 2013, 01:58:34 AM In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available I wonder what you were thinking when you wrote that. Thank goodness obviously Mr. Desper is a gentleman and will still give us the pleasure of his postings in the future. I'm very thankful about that. I must get his book when it's out. I read it as a compliment albeit in bgas' usual cynical/ironic tone i.e. it's a great product, SWD should make it available. I think the word 'lousy' is throwing people here. I could be wrong. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: bringahorseinhere? on October 10, 2013, 03:32:19 AM hi Stephen...
you are a champion coming back here and filling in the gaps and sorry about the SPATIALIZER spelling..... true to your word you made these limited edition, I wish I been in there early, don't think I even had my own internet then hehe I have been checking out some of the video studies you have done but not analysed in great detail yet... I would not have thought you did all this at your own expense...... I guess whats happens in this field sometimes....... you deserve better. it gets my back up a bit you don't get a lot a credit in the BB world, when their best sounding and recorded work was with you at the helm... not knock Chuck or Mark or whoever else....... and shame on whatever pricks have not got the decency to send you the MiC box....... not as if Capitol havnt made enough $$ over the years.. Anyways, Thanks for the reply..... An honour to hear from you. Rick Bartlett Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: The Shift on October 11, 2013, 10:48:01 PM In that case, it's extremely lousy for Steve not to make his spacializer available I wonder what you were thinking when you wrote that. Thank goodness obviously Mr. Desper is a gentleman and will still give us the pleasure of his postings in the future. I'm very thankful about that. I must get his book when it's out. I read it as a compliment albeit in bgas' usual cynical/ironic tone i.e. it's a great product, SWD should make it available. I think the word 'lousy' is throwing people here. I could be wrong. Agree . Bgas ("Big Gentle Angelic Softie") is cool. Sardonic, cynical etc but one of the genuine posters here. I took it to mean that he was just pissing on any flames of entitlement before they took hold and was actually being supportive of Mr Desper's work. Far as I know he owes no one nothing here - the opposite, maybe - unlike a certain fan with, erm, a history. Still Bgas is big enough and ugly enough to stand up for himself … just he's cool, is all. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: mikeddonn on October 12, 2013, 06:32:21 AM Stephen I wanted to thank you for all the music you made over the years with the Beach Boys and for being willing to share those experiences with us obsessives! It really was a great time for the band, sonically and musically.
If someone ever gets round to sending you a copy of Made in California it'd be great to hear your thoughts on the stereo remix of Do It Again. As the guy who worked on the original stereo mix with Carl (before it flew out the car!) you would have been the first person I would have called when the multi's were found. Shame nobody at Capitol thought the same. By the way, I still like the new mix. It would just be interesting to hear what the original stereo mix would have sounded like. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Billf on October 14, 2013, 04:02:52 PM I have the book. It is not lousy.
It's great. Thank you. Title: Re: SWD and the spacilizer...... Post by: Ram4 on October 15, 2013, 10:57:32 AM Stephen, to me you are easily one of the greatest engineers ever and I can't wait to read your book. Your study videos are also just amazing and I hope to see many more. It also frustrates me to wonder what could be released to form a special box set (or official download) of the sessions you worked on with the band. A Capella mixes, alternate takes/mixes, and as many songs as possible that utilize the Spatializer technology. It's all fascinating. And would they even bother to involve you in such a project? Anyway, thanks again!
|