The Smiley Smile Message Board

Ah well. Just browsing through some newly aquired tunes...
What a fantastic album! sort of like a country-beatles sound, what a gem.
Anyone know if the second flame album ever appeared anywhere

check out

http://www.the-flames.com/

everything you need to know and then some. I cant stop listening to The Flame LP either...its sooo good!

The second Flame album is unreleased and not out in any form.

I thought the 2nd Flame album was on the "collectors circuit", maybe I'm mistaken...  I obviously don't have it, don't know anyone that does, but thought it was "out there"

Ask Stephen Desper on his thread- he engineered it.

 ;)

Hi Guys, Bas Möllenkramer here, webmaster of the-flames.com. I have spoken to Steve Desper about the second album. He does not hold the original masters and we must presume they are safe in the vaults at Brother Records. He has a copy and plays it to visitors. I have received mails from the lucky few who heard it. And they all agree its wonderful. Steve wont give copies which we have to understand. The long range goal is a release of the Flame album on CD and the entire second album as a bonus. We will have to wait patiently for that to happen. Sadly I have not heard anything from the second album. To me as a Flames collector its all the way at the top of my wish list, above the single album version of In Concert. Love to all!! Bas (p.s. the track list is on my site and ackowledged by Steve)

The Flames?

Why are they always listed as "the flame" (with no "S") in all the books? WTF?

They started out as The Flames in South Africa. When they got involved with the Beach Boys and moved to the States to record a new album they changed their name by dropping the S: The Flame. So, in connection with the BB there's no Flames (with the S).

They should've stuck with the original. "The Flame" sounds pretty awkward.

maybe, yes, but there's a big difference in Flames and Flame musically. As The Flames they were a soul-group, and didn't compose anything, just covers (and they did a pretty good job on that!). As the Flame they made a move to pop/rock, with only compositions (almost Beatle-like) of their own. So in that matter, a change in name is plausible.

Nice detail: when The Flame album was released in South Africa the S was added again (for recognition and better sales I guess). Check out the site and see the picture-sleeves.

Bas -- I absolutely love your website!  The Flame(s) are criminally underappreciated musicians.  Based on the 1971 Flame album and Steve Desper's comments in the interview on your website that the second one was better, I'd have to say that second album is the absolute number one on my wish list as well.  I can only hope and pray the CD you refer to gets released someday soon!

Thanks for your kind compliments. Its fun collecting the Flames. I now have over 900 items somehow relating to them. I still love the pair of albums which put Blondie Chaplin on the map, Burning Soul and Soulfire. Soon I am going to make new transfers, in the 96 kHz/24 bit domain, and create DVD-Audio quality discs. Thats after my new sound card arrives. Cheers!

Keep up the great work, Bas.  For anyone who hasn't visited his site, I highly recommend it.  There are great interviews with Ricky Fataar, Blondie Chaplin, and Steve Desper, plus lots of information and some incredible pictures, including some shots of the Flame with the Beach Boys in 1971 (one of which I borrowed for my avatar here).

Thanks again. I certainly intend to keep up the Flames site.

I have news. I have just made my first ever successful trial recording in the 24-bit 96 kHz domain. I recorded the song See The Light from a mint sealed "The Flame" album USA Brother pressing (which I unsealed in the presence of two other BB fans). I used my Technics SP10 / SME3009 / Ortofon MC10 / Audio Technica transformer deck into a custom preamp featuring OPA 2604 opamps by Burr Brown. The output went to my very new Creative X-Fi Elite Pro sound card, using the line inputs on the outboard module. Then I burnt the track to a DVD-RW as a DVD-AUDIO stereo 24/96 using the fantastic and most affordable DVD-Audio-Solo software, which is a delight to use. Then I played it in my Pioneer DV 656-A mutli-standard player and the result is FANTASTIC. I can hear the depth in the original recording. Its like listening to the original mint vinyl.

So...........this summer I have a big job........re-transferring all my valued Flames stuff to DVD-Audio for ever higher fidelity. Phew!!!!!

At the risk of appearing commercial, I recommend the DVD-Audio Solo software because the makers are real nice people who will offer help when requested.

I have been delving deeper into The Flames/The Flame/Blondie catalouge lately and have a question for someone more qualified as I cannot find this detailed an album review anywhere:

Like the BB's, I know several band members sang lead at one time or another.  Can anyone list who sang lead on each track of The Flame album? 

Thanks!

Does anyone know where the track listing for the second Brother Records (unreleased) Flame album is? He said it's on his website but I can't find it. By the way, love the flames site. I've checked it out before, its fantastic.

Hi again! Check on this secret hidden page from the Flames website http://www.the-flames.com/unreleas.htm
its been authenticated by Steven Desper

I will try!
See the Light: Blondie
Make It Easy: Blondie
Hey Lord: Blondie
Lady: Blondie
Dont Worry Bill: Steve
Get Your Mind Made Up: Steve
Highs And Lows: Steve
Im So Happy: Blondie
Dove: Steve
Another Day Like Heaven: Steve

Once you get used to it you can easily distinguish Blondie and Steve's singing, especially when they reach for high notes. When Blondie goes high his voice gets an instantly recognizable rounded howling sound (sorry hard to describe these things). Steve's voice gets softer when he goes for a high note.

If I'm not mistaken, parts of the second album and first album (?) were done in quad...I forget off the top of my head any more info, I am remembering correctly Bas?

Are you going to transfer to DVD-audio using any quad mix in surround sound, I know Frank Zappa & Harry Nilsson quad mixes that were transferred to DVD-audio..

Thanks for the response Bas.  

So, no Ricky lead vocal on there.  Was Ricky's 'shared' lead vocal with Blondie on he BB track Here She Comes his only lead with either BB's, Flames or Flame?  

I am assuming that's Blondie on the unreleased track Hard Time, right?


Cupla more questions:

Has anyone reading had a listen to the second unreleased Flame album?  If so, can you give us a review on the evolution of their sound/style of the music?

Also, I read somewhere that Blondie had a follow up to his 1977 solo album that was never released - something much much earlier than Fragile Thread.  Do you know what year it was recorded?  Was this album ever actually completed?  If so, have you heard anything from it or were any tracks from it used on Ostrich Man, Fragile Thread or Between Us?

One more, is there video of the COMPLETE Flames 2000 Reunion show in circulation?  That clip on youtube of Your Precious Love is such a teaser....


Thanks for sharing your info!!

I really hope the 2nd LP comes out on vinyl too. THe boot reissue of the first album may have sounded bad on CD but the vinyl reissue was perfect.

I dont know anything technical about the second album. The first album was recorded on two channels in such a fashion that when played on a passive decoder (a little box to connect four speakers to your stereo amp) a pleasing surround effect was generated. There are no discrete four-channel masters for the first Flame album, so a DVD-A cannot be made in the same way. Having said that you CAN play the Flame album on your modern surround system and fool around with the setting to get a pleasing surround sound. The transfer to DVD-A that I have done is basically stereo in the best possible quality that I can achieve as an amateur. It gives a fine effect on my DENON surround receiver.
A friend of mine has also done a QS-decode on this album and that too gives a very nice surround effect.
None of these effects will however generate true discrete channel separation.
Feel free to email me with questions bas at the-flames dot com

Wow a lot of questions! Ricky has a thinner voice than the others. This can be heard on Here She Comes and especially the studio version of We Got Love. Also "When Somethings Wrong With My Baby" from Burning Soul. Brother Fataar sings lead on an early 45 Maniac!

Hard Time is definitely Blondie, a serious powerhouse vocal.

Alas I have never heard the second FLame album but have received a few emails thru the years of privileged people who visited Steve Desper and got treated to a full listen. Reports are universally positive. Steve Desper mentioned that some tracks have orchestral backing.

I have never heard of a second BC solo album from the time before Ostrich Man.

The complete reunion show (except for encores) was filmed by a handheld from the audience with dreadful sound. There is also a complete hifi quality soundboard mono audio of the show. For the youtube clip i merged the sound from the audio file to the filmed video file. Glad you like it.  By the way, a cameraman can be seen moving around the stage in some shots, so a professional video of the show exists somewhere. I will phone Steve and ask.

Did you all hear Baby Duval died? He was singer-guitarist on the second Flames album Thats Enough.

Feel free to ask any further questions!