The Smiley Smile Message Board

I’m not saying I agree with this idea, I'm just posing it to you. Would it have been better if sometime in the distant past (70s, 80s) the Beach Boys had just broken up and moved on? They could have an occasional reunion tour, like the C50, but would it have been better for the band and its legacy if they just called it quits, perhaps sometime in the mid-70s? Or is there another period? Do you agree or disagree with this idea?

December 28, 1983.

Anytime before Friends I'd be heartbroken, anytime after....not so bothered. (As long as they reformed to put out Love You)

Although I love Livin' With a Heartache, Goin' On, Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late and SNJ, I think they'd be more respected in the "classic rock" canon had they broken up shortly after Light Album.

Either Dennis's death or Carl's. Good arguments can be made for either.

"Should" -- no, no, NEVER. Not at all!

But they did so, in 1998 -- and again in 2012.

I'm glad they never stopped. The odd moment of greatness makes all the duffers worthwhile. And their legacy was already set in stone - Sunflower doesn't suddenly become less of a great record because they put out a clunker like KTSA.

1998 perhaps but to be honest I see nothing particularly wrong with the way things went. I may not like some of the music they put out after 1979 but that doesn't mean the group should've ended. On the contrary, I wish they would've stayed together much longer as a group recording new music, as I even prefer BB85 over most of the guys' solo records (with the notable exception of POB and BW88). Don't care much about whether the group is considered cool or not.

I think they should have ended the group with Carl's death. If Mike wanted to continue to tour, he should've just gone out as "Mike Love's Beach Boys". No Wilson's onstage....no Beach Boys.

December 19, 1973.

Alternatively, February 28, 1981.

I don't think so. I think part of their legacy is that since the birth of the band, there has always been a way to hear this music live and enjoy the summer shows with those songs. It's a pretty special thing. But, their artistic growth in the late 60's makes it hard to say that it's worth keeping the band alive so every summer, the baby boomers can get their fixin' of "Surfin' USA".

Maybe if they had stopped recording after Holland (1973) and just had a touring act doing the Endless Summer shtick in the 70's they could've spent more time building a solid fan base off of the oldies. Then, say, 1982...take all the decent songs from those sub-par late 70's albums, and release one REALLY great reunion album with ALL the members on it and on the road, and they really could have made a powerful comeback. Imagine...

The Beach Boys- Keeping The Summer Alive 1982 New Album & Summer Stadium Tour

1. Keeping The Summer Alive
2. Susie Cincinnati
3. Here Comes The Night
4. My Diane
5. Sweet Sunday Kinda Love
6. Good Timin'
---
1. It's OK
2. Sunshine
3. That Same Song
4. Lady Lynda
5. Shortenin' Bread (...just because  :lol )
6. Endless Harmony

Sure, there are some OK songs I left off of it, and this is also assuming Brian could've released "Love You" as a solo album sometime between 1973-1982.

But after that album and tour, put it back to rest. Say Dennis still passed away, wait until 1987 and do a Beach Boys reunion tour for the 25th anniversary. With all the Landy bullshit at the time, it would probably be best to not have Brian on that album and tour but still, after not having any touring act for 5 years, it would still be a pretty big deal to have Mike, Carl, Al, and Bruce out on the road.

...then maybe give it a rest till C50  :lol

October 5th, 1963.  What was the point in continuing after David left?

I feel part of the reason they never broke up was their constant need of money due to spendthrift habits.

There wasn't enough coming in from record sales? I find it hard to believe that any of these guys ever let the phrase "financial struggle" cross their mind.

My ideal scenario-

Dennis's hissy fit over the sequencing of Surfs Up results in him leaving the band and completing a first solo album with Daryl Dragon in '72 (wibntla, igaf, cu, mig...already a killer tracklisting) and having a successful solo career. Removed from the insanity of the Beach Boys, he still has his ups and downs, but cleans up in the early eighties, and after a few huge albums, turns to soundtrack work in about 1990

Rest of The Beach Boys carry on (C and the P and Holland still happen, minus Dennis's contributions), but split up post Holland.

Mike: Studies law and becomes a high powered music biz lawyer
Brian: Makes big ones, love you, adult child as solo albums.
Carl: produces, makes the odd solo record
Bruce: Teams up with Dean Torrence and tours the oldies circuit forever.
Al: raises horses.

They get back together for live aid in '85, but Mike insists on it being a one off as he's got his image as a lawyer to protect. Everyone else agrees, and they all live happily ever after.

Yes.  September 3. 1977

I agree.

We could speculate all we want, but truthfully I wouldn't really change anything. Everything happens for a reason, right? The Beach Boys are more than just the members. It's the music that counts.

Exactly! Last year was really fun. I just wish Dennis & Carl were still with us.

I am a HUGE Dennis Wilson fan.

But.

On December 28, 1983, Dennis was already spiraling out of control like a guy falling from an airplane with his parachute failing to open. So he wasn't coming back. Nobody could save him. He was on the outs a few years before that. Very sad but true. His voice was shot, he wasn't even attending concerts towards the end, and when he did, he was an ass on stage and a detriment. He didn't stay in hospitals for re-hab, didn't listen to Landy, and he just didn't give a sh*t. He didn't have any more in the tank to give The Beach Boys. December 28 is just a date that he finally did himself in after years of abuse. During all this time, before and after his demise, The Beach Boys carried on without him. Unfortunately, he was expendable to the band.

So, if we're to speculate on the when the Beach Boys shoulda coulda woulda thrown in the towel, it would have to be Carl's Death in February, 1998.

Yeah...I suppose. Then at least we get wipeout with the fat boys and all those other awesome records they made in the eighties.

Had Dennis lived, and the band went on, you don't think they would have still gone that road? Dennis revolted during MIU, but was back in line by L.A. (Light Album), then basically out of the picture for KTSA. I don't think Dennis would have had much clout to change what eventually went down.

I dunno- but in my fantasy they split up in '74, and Dennis left in '71/2... I don't think it was his job to prevent them from being sh*t anyway. He was just the only one capable of writing a GREAT song after 76 or so

I agree with that. I think that Mike Love should not be allowed to use the Beach Boy name. He can still tour, but under an altered band name. In my opinion, the group definitely should have officially ended by 1998.

As far as their legacy, a breakup after 1977 probably would have been good. But like others said, we've received some great gems even in the down years, so it's hard to definitively say they should have ended it. The cheesy nostalgia marketing of the 80s was a terrible detriment to the band's image, though.  It probably hurt the group's "brand" among critics and fans.

In terms of creativity they should have ended after Holland perhaps but obviously that was never going to happen with the success of Endless Summer.

If they had though then I don't really think it would have mattered anyway. They wouldn't have all gone on to have great solo careers and Dennis would probably still have released one album before destroying himself.

I think it's true that they did split up in 1998. Mike using the band name doesn't matter a fart when it comes to the legacy.

Legacy-wise, when 2012 rolled around, there really wasn't that much talk about the post 70's stuff, nor about it hurting their critical image, except here. They will be remembered for their studio work, and even with that only 2 albums out of 29 were released between 1986 and 2012. Their legacy will be just fine, even after all this past year's goings on.

in MY fantasy, Carl and Dennis are still very much with us and still Beach Boys.  ;D

:thewilsons

I'm not as anti-Mike & Bruce as most, but...

After Carl's death, I wish they would've had some real heart-to-heart meetings and discussed the future of The Beach Boys, over a period of weeks or months. And, I wish they would've adopted an all or nothing policy. Either they - Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave - all tour together or there is no Beach Boys' tour. I wish they (Mike & Bruce) would've made it easy(er) on themselves and not decided to do extended touring; just a nice, concentrated summer tour and a month, month and a half winter/holiday tour. Melinda is pretty good at making sure that Brian keeps his commitments and she might've agreed to this limited touring agreement, leaving enough time for any Brian solo projects.

I also wish they would've agreed to a new Beach Boys album every two or three years, pooling all of the members' best songs together because none of them have enough quality songs for a solo album anyway.

The only thing they - The Beach Boys - would be sacrificing would be money, and, because money controls everything with The Beach Boys, my wishes never had a chance in hell to happen...

I don't think there was ever any chance of that happening at all...

While Brian did say in 1998 that he planned to tour with Mike and Bruce in 1999, I don't think this was ever a realistic proposition. Especially as Al was always going to be fired and there were even problems with David in the touring group at that time.

The only way it could have been all or nothing is if Brian and/or Carl's estate had voted against Mike (I have no idea what happens in the event of a tie).

They split for good after Love You, but the Smile tapes are handed to Phil Spector and released a year later.

Obviously glad that didn't happen, as perhaps no BB's may have led to Brian's doom in the early '80s

You know, The Beach Boys didn't go through the phase of early "gelling" as a band. They didn't spend years playing clubs and college dances, working their way up the ranks playing covers and trying out some original material until they got the attention of a record executive. This, to me, is the major difference between them and The Beatles.  The advantage of that kind of dues paying is that you polish your act and your stage presence. You work out who does what best, how to deal with the fans and success, how to manage business issues, and what your creative direction is. The Beatles spent three years playing clubs and figuring that stuff out. The Beach Boys were family and friends, some of whom were just now learning how to play their rented instruments, who recorded a regionally successful song. Within a pretty short time, they were signed to a big time recording contract and the game was on. It was a baptism by fire of sorts.

So, when the whole thing finally slowed down in the late 60's, they were a big name band who were just then going through their period of dues paying. They couldn't rely on that early status anymore, and had to spend the time working out all those little kinks that usually get worked out when you're a nobody. So, Mike goes through his Mick Jagger and Guru phases. Dennis and Carl  explore different stylistic directions. They pull in managers and band members that they hope will give them new direction. And all of that is on stage and on vinyl because this isn't just The Pendletones working this out as they work their way up the ladder. This is The Beach Boys, and everyone's watching. Is it hit and miss? Sure. Is it rough at times? Definitely. But, The Quarrymen got the chance to work the edges off before taking the world by storm as The Beatles. The Pendletones didn't.

So, to answer the OP... Better for whom? The band? The fans? The band did what they wanted and needed to do. After their initial run, they tried new things (some hits and some misses) and kept things going on the touring circuit. Nobody is disputing their place in popular music history, so I don't think anything they did during the "dues paying" time has really damaged their legacy. The only criticism now seems to be about the "oldies" nature of the touring band and Brian's choice of collaborators, and that's not coming from the general public or the music industry, but from the mega fans. So, the band did what they wanted, and we still get this great music. So, no. They shouldn't have broken up.

Who should get to use the name, however, is another issue altogether.


 

My opinion...after Carl died. No more Wilsons, no more BBs.

Excellent post Cyncie. The angle you spun was one I had never considered before.

:woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

Had they done so in late 1973 they would have a flawless legacy.

Why is everyone so concerned with their legacy? After 51 years, they still rank high in post polls. Their 60's output is always lauded. History has improved their lot with the 1967-1973 period. Rarely does what they did over the next 40 years play in to how they are remembered. 

As time passes this gets more true. I think I just wish personally and professionally that things had gone different after 1973. I also remember first liking the group in the late eighties and nobody would take them seriously then for obvious reasons.

Not even themselves. They even disavowed Summer In Paradise last year. ;)

That's correct! ;D

The Beach Boys died with Dennis. But they never were the same after the 1977 blowout over Dennis's album. It was quite telling When Dennis's album outsold Love You. The group's ego just couldn't handle that.

Really? POB outsold Love You?  I thought Love You charted at 50-something, POB 90-something.

I've always felt the same. Good observation/.

The Beach Boys were the best and biggest band in the world at 12-1966. I have always thought what would be if Brian had broke up the band then and went solo.

Yes but didn't Love You then drop out of the charts like a stone whilst POB hung around for a while? I could be wrong but I'm sure that's what I've read was the case...

In 66? Brian would have made an album or two under his own name before focusing full time on producing other artists. His mental and drug issues would have still killed his career stone dead by 70/71.

Without Brian The BB's would have had a year or so on the bread and butter circuit before fading into obscurity.

Splitting in 1966 would have been a lose/lose situation.

No. Love You was on the charts for 7 weeks. POB was on the charts for 8 weeks but at a lower level.

Indeed.  Hence, my answer on page one.  :-\

+1.0000000000...! Nothing to add further.

1977 after the big airport fight. That was when the band really died in a lot of ways, anyway. Dennis should have quit them years before anyway, they completely held him back.

Really? In what way?

The only person that ever really held Dennis back was the person that looked back at him in the mirror every morning.

Stopped him from touring solo, for one. Held too many of his songs off their albums, for another. Brian was shot, and they needed a new musical leader. Dennis was the only once close to capable because Carl just didn't write enough stuff. Dennis was the best writer they had. He should have quit and went solo after Surf's Up.

I do agree there is some truth to that, but I think the best way he could have fixed himself was to get away from the others.

Well stopping him touring solo happened that very year didn't it? So obviously wasn't long standing issue.

And Dennis was the one who took his songs off Surf's Up. He also had the opportunity to sing the lead on their big attempt at a hit single from the Holland album but decided to surf instead. It would have stood a much better chance of being a hit if it had had a recognizable Beach Boy singing it and he would have had something to perform in concert every night.

As he had the space for between 2 to 4 songs on every album from Friends to Holland I don't think it's fair to say the group were holding him back then. He absolutely should have been involved after Holland and they should have been using a combination of his songs and Brian's songs. If they had though there would have been no POB...