The Smiley Smile Message Board

It seems that everyone believes "15 Big Ones" was a big mistake. What kind of album should have been released in its place? What could the band have done to capitalize on its renaissance while forging a new direction?

I love the double album idea. If 15 is some sort of crazy mess, imagine what a spectacularly crazy mess a crushing dose of it would've been!

Sequenced properly, it would've been a pretty strange thing to sit through.

Love You should have come first.  8)

I used to be appalled by 15 Big Ones. Couldn't believe what a drop-off from their earlier material it was. But I actually came to really like it. It has so many touches that are just so obviously "Brian", which one couldn't say about a great deal of the few albums before it.

But regardless, when the group released this album, they were riding a wave of popularity that they hadn't since the 1960s and no doubt, they squandered it. While 15 Big Ones is fun and raw and goofy and hoarse, that was not what the public wanted. Shoot, I'm not sure any of group themselves (besides Brian) even wanted that. What could they realistically have done at this point to capitalize on the success of Endless Summer? Well one would think they'd let every member submit their best material and just fashion a cohesive album out of that (and add a few covers since Brian was definitely diggin' those at the time). And with the following tunes (all of which were likely at least considered for the album), it seems they really could have had a commercial and critical hit. And who knows what that woulda meant!

"Good Timin'"
"California Feelin'"
"It's OK"
"Ding Dang"
"River Song"
"Everyone's In Love With You"
"Susie Cincinnati"
"Angel Come Home"
"Just Once In My Life"
"Palisades Park"

There you go. Ten songs. Not amazing, but definitely a good collection with a few songs that eventually became hit singles ("Good Timin'" and "It's OK"). Shame they didn't put something like this out.

Just no nostalgia, make progressive music. If Brian only had a few good ones, forget the hype and make a great group album.

If they felt they had to have a 'produced by Brian Wilson' credit then they could have done what his management does now and given it to him while other people do a lot of the work (Carl and Dennis in this case). A tracklisting of something like...

That Same Song
It's OK
Palisades Park
Good Timin'
Everyone's in Love with You
Back Home

River Song
Angel Come Home
Had to Phone Ya
Glow Crescent Glow
Pacific Ocean Blues
Just Once in my Life

A few scattered musings on why I feel it was near impossible to successfully follow the contemporary route of Holland:

a)   I know most everyone says that Dennis was equipped to be the band's saviour but couldn't rise due to band politics. While that potentially contributed, I think he couldn’t bring himself to be assertive over the band as he saw the Beach Boys as Brian's baby, himself a messenger. It wasn't his moment, it was Brian’s and he wasn't going to stand in-between the attempt to get big brother back in the fray. Further, we should remember that Dennis had his sights set on solo ventures as early as 1970. I don't doubt he would've been willing to throw the band an occasional bone as he was willing to do with “Pacific Ocean Blues”, but at the end of the day, I think he'd continue to stockpile his best stuff for solo work, just as he had done in the past.

b)   Carl had it in him to take charge in ways that Dennis could not in the early 1970s, but from what I gather, by the middle of the decade he was in a pretty rough spot himself. Supplementing this, he lacked Rieley, he lacked Desper, those who helped get the best out of him. Regretfully, I've got to say that had Carl kept hold of the reigns in the mid-1970s, I wouldn’t be terribly optimistic for much beyond a few more "Full Sail"s, "Goin South"s with the occasional "Heaven” here and there. While I’m glad we’ve got a couple of Carl’s compositions from ’76 onward, some of it is really boring. Even the worst of the Beach Boys’ catalogue at least has the distinction of being memorable.

c)   One of the best things about the Beach Boys is how down to earth and grounded their music can be. Even Smile, while cerebral at times, doesn't take itself too seriously, balancing itself with an emphasis on word-play and humour. Unfortunately, there are many pseudo-intellectuals out there who are bent on producing and consuming only the most serious, "intellectual" music, anything else just isn’t worth listening to for them, it’s a little silly.

I think Brian felt similarly. Albums like Friends, Today! and Wild Honey reflect how youth, humanity and humour in music was important to the guy. I’m sure Brian was aware that some “critics” out there would think these various aesthetic choices “uncool”, but I think he stuck to his guns out of principle and perhaps as an act of rebellion. In that light, the “uncool” does a complete 180 and becomes ridiculously cool and unique.

The stylistic shift that started in the Rieley era strayed a little from this, so I can see why Brian might not have been hugely interested in making a natural successor to Holland. When Brian got back “in charge” he spoke of hitting the “reset” button to change course back, but due to circumstance, it wasn't that easy. As we know, when he got in the studio in '75 he recorded a ton of oldies, perhaps trying to hone in on that "magic" to enable the reset, but it was difficult for him to find. Landy breathing down his neck, lack of focus, a new vocal blend to account for etc. etc. things just weren't working for him well.

So, if the context above remained relatively constant, but with a little more luck thrown in the mix, what could we realistically expect? Honestly, I don't think there was a huge chance for anything mindblowing, but a collection of idiosyncratic Brian originals teamed with a few contributions by the band could've resulted in a pretty solid entry. Some songs don't belong to the era, but as they fit in context and work for capturing the vision, I've snuck them in.

It's O.K.!

Side A
"Had to Phone Ya"
"Soul Searchin'"
"It's O.K.!"
"Angel Come Home"
"Lady Lynda"
"That Same Song"

Side B
"Constant Companion"
"Goin' On"
"Lines"
"Some of Your Love"
"Sherry, She Needs Me"
"Good Timin'"

Side C
"Life is for the Living"
"Our Team"
"What's Wrong?"
"Everybody Wants to Live"
"Back Home"
"My Diane"

Side D
"Ding Dang"
"It's Trying to Say"
"T.M. Song"
"Stevie"
"Male Ego"
"It's Over Now"

Going to make a fanmix of this! :rock

If you're talking about my track list, I should say some the songs are custom mixes I did specifically to help keep things here cohesive, but it even if you use their regular forms it should be a decent enough listen!

Well although they all had different ideas about what to do after the Endless Summer situation, I think the "compromise"  (i.e. half oldies, half new material) was the worst move possible. It comes across as just plain messy.

At the same time I'm not saying I wanted something revolutionary; I would have been fine with something fun but with a little consistency. Quzi's tracklist looks good.

I like 15 Big Ones. It's the first Brian Wilson-sounding Beach Boys album since Friends. And Brian Wilson-sounding albums are goofy and weird, which is why so many people don't like it. Yeh, Love You is much better, but Brian wasn't ready to make that album in winter-spring '76, so this is what we got. And it has some good tracks from the '74-'75 era too.

Let's put things in perspective: if 15 Big Ones had never been released, and it came out today as an unreleased, never heard album, our jaws would be dropping!

Couldn't agree more, DonnyL!

It may not be a great album in terms of vocal performances (though I don't mind that as much as others do) but the BW magic is most definitely there in most of the songs' arrangements (as well as some of the cover choices).

I really don't know about that. I don't think it's the weirdness that puts people off It's just there are massive problems with the vocals, productions, mixes and some of the songwriting.

If people were hearing it now as an unreleased album then some people probably would say, 'this is up there with their best work' because fans say that about all rarities pretty much. But that wouldn't make it true.

I would have been quite happy with 15 Big Rock'n'Roll ones - a complete album of covers, BUT after a couple of years of 'inactivity' in terms of new material, I suspect the old fans were expecting something more like POB and the hits fans who'd bought the latest comps were expecting them to sound like they did in the 60s and sing about summer being fun etc etc. Okay, I'm being glib here, but only slightly.

I might have been okay with a complete album of It's Okay kinda stuff and quirky Love You material - kind of looking back as if they were younger writing in that idiom (as Landy clearly had Brian doing for Love You).

BUT I would have still been waiting for the next 'serious' album and I believe we have traces of that kind of work scattered over the next few albums, plus stuff that was unreleased in favour of the 'positivity' stuff (which I'm not laying just as Mike's door), plus POB (not that I would want that changed, but, let's face it, some tracks were offered up for use on the bands albums.

These 'massive problems' are the weirdness of circa '76 BW music! That's how he made music during the era. You could call it unfinished or lazy, but I think he was just going for something else. There are a lot of anecdotes to suggest that Brian specifically wanted rough & scratchy vocals. I think he was a little afraid of getting to ethereal or light. And yeh, probably a little out of it and maybe lazy too.

If you listen to the backing tracks of things like 'Palisades Park' and 'Had To Phone Ya', they sound like classic BW.

If given the multis, I'd bet someone could remix this album into sounding much closer to a '60s production. But I like it as it is personally.

exactly

they had the potential to make a great rock album

...This is that goofy-and-weird definition of "Brian Wilson-sounding", which excludes basically all his hugely successful albums before 1967, is it?  :-)

The reason I'm not keen on the stuff round that time is because it sounds like Brian malfunctioning, in a way which none of the previous albums -- even quirky ones like "Friends" -- do.  Even "Smiley Smile", which sounds like they're all off the planet, doesn't sound like he's flailing for something and not reaching it.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I agree. I like some of Brian's work at this time, but much of it makes me uneasy. Maybe if he hadn't been so much different before?

Set your sights low and 15 Big Ones is not without it's charms here and there, but taken as a whole it documents quite clearly that Brian Wilson had snorted away his talent by 1976.

That sounds very harsh. I don't know, to my ears his arranging skills sound very much intact on this record and the man himself seems to be very proud of this particular album. It clearly is a personal favorite of his. With the exception of Mike and Alan's contributions I enjoy every single song on this album. Maybe it's because I'm such a huge fan of Brian's use of the synth.

Some very interesting scattered musings, however, I have a different take on Dennis not being the savior in the early 70's.  There was a brief flash where it was happening, and ironically you can see it in The Mike Douglas Show footage, where they perform "Never Learn Not To Love"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0v2bVX8j4.  I say it’s ironic because to my memory, it was the trial, the threats & the aftermath of his involvement with Manson which caused control to slip through his fingers.  You can see in that footage, (& perhaps even more so in that damn missing David Frost Show!), how there was no stopping his stepping to the forefront at a certain point. I mean, nobody questions that practically from the gate, he was absolutely the most charismatic part of their show.

Which is not to say he ever for a moment thought he could be the showman that Mike was, and he became all the more aware of that once he injured his hand, and was forced out front with Mike. I really believe his discomfort in that role contributed a great deal to his drinking. Also, as far as setting his sights on his solo career, he wasn’t any different than Mike & Brian releasing a single, or Brian putting out “Caroline No” as a solo. While there were examples of him pulling tracks, for the most part his material was as available to The Beach Boys as Lindsey Buckingham’s works in progress are often adopted by Fleetwood Mac. 

Brian Wilson was still a mess in 1976 and should not have been the producer of the album.  He was the producer and therefore the album was a mess.  Who in their right mind approved putting the TM Song on the album?

The Beach Boys - Group Therapy (1976)

SIDE A:

01. Good Timin'
02. It's OK
03. Had To Phone Ya
04. That Same Song
05. Everyone's In Love With You
06. River Song

SIDE B:

01. Loop De Loop
02. Susie Cincinnati
03. I Wanna Pick You Up
04. Back Home
05. Pacific Ocean Blues
06. I Write the Songs

But, you know, as "rusty" or disturbed Brian might've been in early 1976, I think the arrangements and backing tracks he produced for 15 Big Ones are brilliant. There's a lot of cool stuff going on there.

Obviously, the two biggest flaws on 15 Big Ones are the lead vocals and the final song selection. No matter who produced that album - they coulda got Phil Spector! - they couldn't overcome the damaged voices of Brian and Dennis at that particular time. It wasn't poor production on Brian's part; he was stuck with what he had, unless he would've chosen to NOT use his and Dennis's voice on lead vocals.

The song selection ultimately doomed the album. If they were Brian's final choices, then, yes, you could say that he wasn't functioning well. I've often wondered how they arrived at the final tracklist, and if the record company had any input, which they did on every album since Sunflower!   

I wouldn't say his talent was gone, but I do like everything before that point better.

I also subscribe to the theory that his discomfort as a frontman and the Manson incidents stopped him becoming a "Mike" for the band in the late 60s. In my above post I was mainly speculating as to why Dennis didn't "save" the band in a songwriting capacity from '74-'76 (which I still think that ultimately boils down to his respect for Brian and solo aspirations.)

The way I see it is Dennis contributed 25% of the material on 20/20 and Sunflower, a pretty fair claim in a band with so many songwriters. Even with this quantifiable stake of control in the band at the time, Dennis still had a drive to do things alone, evident by the release of "Sound of Free" in 1970 and his attempt a solo album in '71/'72.  It gives a little less credence to the theory that Dennis was only attracted to a solo career in '76 after being forced to because of band politics - it'd been on the guy's mind for a while.

I agree as well. I think it's apparent from all the reports at the time that Brian didn't want to be producing this album and it shows with the lackluster arrangements, productions and mixes.

Take out Palisades Park and possibly Ding Dang, replace them with Go And Get That Girl and Sherry, She Needs Me, and you've got a great album.  8)

He called it his favorite BB album as recently as 2012 so there must be something about it that he really likes. Being back in the spotlight made him nervous perhaps but the backing tracks he produced for this album sound like he was quite into it.

music that sounded like their 1963-1966 heyday i guess... too bad that was impossible by 1976

I am very disturbed by 15 Big Ones, but quite charmed by Love You. The Adult/Child material is somewhere in between. 

To me, Love You captures the magic of Smiley Smile/Wild Honey/Friends era. Music that sounds half assed, but very creative at the same time. 15 Big One's doesn't do anything for me. Although, I would be interested in hearing the backing tracks.

Source? Not that I think you're lying, but I recall reading somewhere that he considered Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) his favorite. Perhaps he changed his mind, I guess.

Every Beach Boys album has been Brian's favorite at some point.

I'm not sure about every album, but I'm pretty sure at some point he was even saying Carl and the Passions and Holland were two of his favorites, surprisingly.

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It could have been a cool double album if it would've had only originals on one disc and only covers on the other.

Hmmm...   It's Deja Vu all over again

It could have made a stunning single----"It's O.K." b/w "just Once In My Life".