The Smiley Smile Message Board

It seems to me that the Beach Boys have the largest quantity of dramatic, history-changing "what if" moments. Most big-time bands/artists have careers in which you can look back and maybe question a few things. But ultimately, "they are what they are." In the case of the Beach Boys, there were so many cases of "if they just would have done this at that time, their careers would have been completely different." It's crazy. Here are a few examples:

A few "WHAT IFs" that have been discussed
--What if they had released Smile? (Public response to it? Updated/altered band reputation and image? How would it have effected their legacy? Would Brian have kept it together longer? How would it effect their future direction and pop music's as a whole)
--If Smile had been accepted warmly by the band and released, could Brian have continued his artistic growth, retained his sanity (at least for a while longer) and revolutionized music?
--What if the band had capitalized on the "Endless Summer" craze and released an album of strong quality material, instead of "15 Big Ones"?
--What if the band had decided not to fully embrace the nostalgic touring image of later years under the direction of Mike Love?
--What if Dennis Wilson had been more openly allowed to share his compositions with the group (without jealously/rejection)? Could his songs have anchored the band and helped them into a new artistic era?
-- What if Capitol had marketed "Pet Sounds" more actively? Could it have become a major commercial success during its time period, as well as an artistic one? Would that have helped the group more readily accept Brian's "Smile" experimentation?

There are many other scenarios, both major and minor, that could have changed the band's course and legacy--possibly dramatically. It's absolutely fascinating, and I can't think of another band/artist with anything comparable. The Beach Boys career almost plays out like a "choose your own adventure" story, with unexpected zig zagging twists and turns, in which a different option could have led to a significantly different result.

What if Carl and Dennis had not died?
What if Wild Honey had been embraced by the public as brilliant (and sold well)?
What if the BB's had played Monterey?

1) 'Smile' had a lot more impact as a legend than it would have as an actual release. Sure, it might have made a minor critical or cultural splash -- something like Love's 'Forever Changes' -- but it would have been a commercial flop.
 
2) A '15 Big Ones' with stronger songs and arrangements might have given them a temporary boost critically and commercially, but 1976 was already the end of an era . By 1977 the critics and the kids would have been slagging them off as representatives as "dinosaur rock" no matter how well 15 Big Ones might have been received the previous year.

3) How is the 'Pet Sounds' 1966 reception pivotal? True, it wasn't as huge a hit as it deserved, but it still made the top 10, and the singles released from it were big hits.

4) Dennis? I don't know. Maybe if he continued to write and arrange in his late 60's, early 70's style pop rock style -- and the group recorded and released more of his songs -- their history might have been different. Probably not a crucial 3 year lapse (1973-1976) between lps, in any case. But I don't see POB as a viable model for a Beach Boys record. It's grittier, bluesier, looser than their stuff. Becoming Little Feat was not a serious option.

1. Smile (as noted)
2. What if Reilly hadn't stayed in Holland/quit/got fired?  Jack's continued presence = No Stan Love in control.  No Stan Love in control = No Blondie quitting.  No Blondie quitting (probably) = No Ricky quitting.  Jack's continued presence also = Way less or even no giving in to nostalgia. Instead, band releases new, more contemporary album in in 1974 or 1975; more than likely without a "Brian's Back" campaign.  Wilson brothers maintain artistic control with Brian still involved as much as he'd been (two gems per albums, instead of an album's worth of mediocre material).  Wilson Brothers maintaining artistic control (probably) = No Pacific Ocean Blue (because there might be no need).  No 15 Big Ones = No Love You.  ...And the list goes on and on.
3. Contemporary album, capitalizing on Endless Summer (without Reilly) (as noted)
4. What if the band broke up "for good" after the airport incident in 1977?  Like the Bee Gees and the Everly Brothers, it may not have been permanent (being family) but maybe it would (too many hurdles and egos when they try to reform).  Does Mike restart Celebration or start an "Endless Summer Beach Band" earlier with Bruce, Dean, Glen, etc?  Does Carl finish Smile and release it?  More than likely, Dennis releases Bambu.  Beyond that, who knows?
5. Montery Pop Festival (as noted)
6. What if Billy Hinche had replaced Bruce when he was first asked?
7. What if Billy Hinche had replaced Bruce when he was asked the second time?
8. What if Glen Campbell didn't leave and became Brian's permanent replacement?
9. What if David had rejoined in the 1970's?
10. What if Smile was finished and released in 1972?
11. What if Dennis actually allowed his voice to heal?
12. What if Randy Bachman had joined in 1980?
13. What if Ed Carter was available in 1965, when Bruce asked him to take Glen Campbell's place, and joined instead of Bruce?
14. What if Carl never rejoined after his 1981 departure?
15. What if Mike accepted the fact in 2012 that he and Brian have their own areas of expertise in the band (Mike in charge on stage and Brian in charge in the studio), and that the success of TWGMTR was a HUGE success for them and let Brian helm a follow up in the same manner?  Go check some of my old posts.  I called it before the tour was even over...which it wouldn't be had this one happened; even if Mike took "his" band out to fulfill their obligations while C50 went on "break".  (A break of some sort would probably have to happen in order to rebrand everything non-C50 and iron out things going forward, as the original Thomas oriented tour wound down.  That way everyone could have things "going forward", rather than continually extending the original tour.)

And also as noted:  What if Carl and Dennis hadn't died?

And for that matter, What if Murry had lived to a ripe old age, like Audree?

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Why not?

Fleetwood Mac managed to reinvent their sound enough over the years. A Dennis led BB would have been different to what we ended up with, but it's an interesting option.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say the 'little feat option' (don't hear it myself but...) would have been far more of a sensible, seriously viable option than what they actually did post Holland.

I imagine if they'd gone for a less nostalgic, fun sound for their '76 comeback they could have bagged a chunk of the audience that was buying Fleetwood Mac and Eagles records at the time. Too much emphasis on people's childhood memories made the band seem like old farts before their time - in reality they were all still in their early to mid 30's.

So did the Doobie Brothers, and they were very successful before they completely changed their sound-which resulted in even more success.

Fleetwood Mac and the Doobie Brothers reinvented their sound by reinventing the line-ups of their respective bands. And neither band, in any case, had as indelible a sound as the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys, more than any other band I can think of, are their sound.

Instead of bringing Brian back as a full time member they should have got Michael McDonald. He would have totally been Mike's bitch.

I don't agree. There is no continuity of sound between Surfin, Good Vibrations and Cuddle Up, yet all those tracks were by The Beach Boys. In fact, I'd argue that due to having at times 7 possible lead vocalists, they have even less of an identifiable sound.

What if, instead of going into surf music, Brian had earned a degree in music composition?

What if the Dragon brothers had joined the BBs?

Making funky soulful rock music written by Dennis and Carl, spiritual lyrics by Mike. A folk-country influence from Al. A career as adult musicians. A rejuvenated Brian with no need for EE Landy, making suites of Old Man River. Bruce's schmaltz refined and made more palatable.

THe biggest shame...

Threads like this makes me so sad.  :(

What if the Boys had allowed (and maybe even encouraged) Brian to produce other groups for the Brother label in the late '60s?

Oh stop. I'm tired of this "SMiLE was too advanced to be successful!" type unsubstantiated crap. SMiLE was absolutely unique and ahead of its time. But it was the Beach Boys, one of the biggest acts in the world. Coming off the success of GV, a #1 hit across the globe. Coming off a critical and (albeit modest) commercial hit with Pet Sounds. In 1967, when "weird," "far out," experimental music was all the rage. Now granted, it's possible the old surf n cars fans may have felt shafted (like Bob Dylan's did when he went electric) and it's also possible the new breed of hippie kids may not have known what "Over and over the crow cries..." meant either. But SMiLE was psychedelic, it was incredibly well produced, it had name/brand recognition and it was supposed to come out just before Pepper. Would it have gone to #1 as that album did? No one can say. Personally, I think it had a good chance. But no way in hell would it have flopped, as you and so many others blindly assume. Especially if the band had played Monterey. At worst, it'd be a slightly disappointing success ala Pet Sounds and the H&V single.

Forever Changes is a misleading comparison as it was actually pretty 'tame' (for lack of a better word) compared to the lush mind-f***s the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Hendrix, etc were cranking out at the time. Love also almost never toured and so were mostly unknown compared to the BBs being a household name.