The Smiley Smile Message Board

So the Caribou album sessions in 1974 ultimately didn't provide them with much material, and given their huge comeback with the success of Endless Summer compilation that summer and Spirit Of America the following summer there was no hurry to put out a new album but rather to tour.

According to some webpages the group got ready for another attempt in late 1975, the very beginning of sessions which would culminate in their successful (but lacking) comeback studio album. Carl and Dennis both pushed for an originals only album while Brian wanted to work exclusively with oldies material. Mike and Al were probably with Brian on this one.
Ultimately a compromise was done resulting in a single LP featuring both originals and oldies covers (including older Beach Boys material).

However the original plan seems to have been to record a double-album with one disc for new material and one for oldies. Now we know that from this period on Brian would be mostly obsessed with 50's and early 60's pop standards and had a vast assortment to choose from in recording.

But what about originals? What material could feasibly be released in 1976 and still be respectable?

Of originals written in this period we have:

It's OK
Had To Phone Ya
River Song
Everyone's In Love With You
California Feelin'
Good Timin'
Hey Little Tomboy
Don't Let Me Go (is the booted?)
You Are So Beautiful
Battle Hymn (yes.... this one we can ignore) edit:my bad
Clangin' / Rollin' Up To Heaven (unreleasable perhaps?)
Come To The Sunshine (VDP)
Just An Imitation
Lisa
Lucy Jones
Share Your Love (R.Fataar)
I've Got A Friend (recorded 2-5-1975)
Lookin' Down The Coast (at least rehearsed in 1975)
Pacific Ocean Blues
Our Life, Our Love , Our Land
Canyon Summer
All Of My Love
Old Movie (developed from CATP session)
Rainbows
The Night Was So Young
Gold Rush (is that a promising title?)
Back Home
Heaven's Tones


So many of these songs have been heard. Other we aren't even sure exist. But given what we know was at least written at the time, how unrealistic isn't it that much of it could've been recorded by at least mid 1976 along with Brian's treasured oldies. Ofc the band were very wary of not upsetting Brian and trying to make sure he is supported in whatever he wants, which may explain why Dennis and Carl relented with some oldies.

What opinions do people have of this?

I've also read somewhere that Baby Blue may date from this period as well as other Dennis compositions which appeared on POB/Bambu.
Ofc there are also the outtakes from Sunflower, Surf's Up (4th & WIBNTLA), CATP and Holland, though the group were slightly abject to using older songs it would seem (given that good songs remained unreleased for so long).

To me it seems perfectly possible that by 1976 the Beach Boys could've had a very neat double album with one disc of originals and one of oldies.
If this seems too unrealistic please point out.

Tell me why...

Side A:

River Song
Good Timin'
The Night Was So Young
Don't Let Me Go (?)
Lisa / Lucy Jones
Heaven's Tones
Had To Phone Ya
Ding Dang (?)

Side B:

California Feelin'
Lookin' Down The Coast / Coastline
Pacific Ocean Blues
Come To The Sunshine
Our Life, Our Love , Our Land
Canyon Summer
It's OK
You Are So Beautiful

...was not possible? Followed up by disc 2 with oldies.

Was this perhaps the groups greatest lost opportunity after Smile?
(btw board was little dead lately, so please chime in  ;D)
Also: The Beach Boys deserve a 70's rarities digital album in order for fans to access all this stuff. It doesn't even have to be pristine quality, just available as it is. No Packaging, no modern mixing (unless the track really deserves it, in which case it could be released physically in the future).

It was DOA.

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is not a Beach Boys composition.

Probably the oldest of the oldies disc. ;)

Definitely.  absolutely no doubt about it.

My understanding is that a) a double album was very much within reach, and b) Dennis and Carl strenuously, strenuously objected to the release of 15 Big Ones as it was, that they were voted down literally in a band meeting 3 to 2, and that this was one of the major reasons that Dennis embarked on a solo career. I don't have solid sources though, it's just what I've gathered from the various things I've read.

As for the album itself, my fantasy tracklist has always been this:

A side:
Good Timin (this should have been the single. If a crappy cover of Rock and Roll music went to number 5, just imagine how well a beautiful, nostalgic ballad would have done.)
River Song
Had to Phone Ya
That Same Song (ideally with a bit more production courtesy Dennis and Carl)
Back Home
Susie Cincinnati
Everyones In Love With You (I've always liked this song)

B Side
It's Okay
Pacific Ocean Blues
California Feeling
Rainbows (also recorded during the 15 Big Ones Sessions)
Angel Come Home (apparently written and at least a basic track recorded in 1975)
Just Once in My Life (this oldies cover can stay :)
Holy Man (recorded 1975, obviously lyrics never finished, until recently! I imagine Carl singing this, and it is sublime in my mind)

Of course, in this scenario Pacific Ocean Blue doesn't happen, but Dennis comes out swinging as a major player in a beach boys creative revival, and so I think that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make, particularly since it might well have eased some of the solo career versus band tensions that, in my opinion, were a major contributer to dennis's downfall.

Also, I strongly suspect that had all of these Dennis songs been used by the Beach Boys, Carl would have sung at least half of them, if not more.

Also, I don't think that the above track list represents the best possible album the beach boys could have put out in 1976. I think it represents a realistic example of what Dennis and Carl were trying to accomplish. The first side is significantly weaker than the second side, because Carl and Dennis are throwing a bone to Mike and Brian, a la Surf's Up. I wouldn't include Susie Cincinnati, but I imagine that realistically, Al would have gotten his song on there as part of the process.

I'm pretty sure we've done threads about this before, and I consider this one of the few interesting "what ifs?" in The Beach Boys career.

Anyways, only going with stuff that would have reasonably been able to be included, a cool follow to Holland would be

1 "River Song"
2 "It's OK"
3 "Susie Cincinnati"
4 "Had To Phone Ya"
5 "Pacific Ocean Blues"
6 "Everyone's In Love With You"
7 "Good Timin'"
8 "Ding Dang"
9 "Angel Come Home"
10 "Back Home"
11 "California Feelin'"

I think this woulda overall been stronger than 15 Big Ones and also probably woulda gave them a bit more artistic credibility. I would say that they should have released "It's OK" as the first single which I think would have charted top 10 due to the excitement from the Endless Summer crowd. Shoot, I'm pretty sure it went top 30, and it was the second single from 15 Big Ones and it was near the end of summer! And then I think they shoulda followed that up with "Good Timin'" as the second single, which I feel would have appealed to both the people that dug the "hipper" Holland type sound along with the people that were just digging "Surfer Girl" and "In My Room". Whether the critics would have loved the album that I hypothesized is up in the air, but I'm pretty sure they woulda complemented "Good Timin'" and "River Song" and others and I think that woulda kept The Beach Boys more "current" for a little while longer. Alas, they didn't do this, but oh well.

Might want to revise that thread title  :P

A second chance of a lifetime, and they deliver the worst album of their career so far. There are lots of fascinating "what if's" in the BB's story, but 15 Bog Ones is just plain sad one.

And come to think of it... They tried to shoot down quite a few of Brian's ambitious ideas during the wilderness years ('Til I Die, Fairytale, Old Man River...) but when he clearly had no ambitions or ideas left, THAT'S when they decided to give him free rein?

Carl and Dennis should have stood up and voice their opinions loud and clear well before anything was released.

I think Glow Crescent Glow was recorded for this album? That should have been included.

The album as released is deeply crap. I can`t believe so many of the public fell for the Brian`s Back hogwash.

A few of those songs are out the timescale. From what we know existed, it would have been schizophrenic to say the least. Possibly as schizophrenic as the final article, though without the oldies. No Jack Rieley to guide their hands; the brothers Wilson at loggerheads with the others; Dennis with other options (and a load of great songs); Brian being guided by Landy's musically regressive therapy; Al and Mike being guided by the success of the greatest hits package and, understandably to some extent, concerned about the continuing existence of the group; Bruce writing and producing for himself and others.

I'd love to hear some of those songs, but I'm not sure they were all recorded.

How about including:

12 "That Same Song"

I always liked the song. Kind of catchy (the chorus); enthusiastic. Maybe with a another take at the lead vocal...

Great post. A huge missed opportunity and a very poor album that I can't help but love! It's hard to fathom how anyone went along with the release of this album (band mates, management, record label etc). Something of reasonable quality could easily have led to a renewed interest in new Beach Boys music, but also to what they'd done in the previous 6-7 years. Instead we got an album light on new compositions and heavy on bizarre covers. Dennis probably lacked some of skills needed to lead the group, but it's a huge shame the group couldn't do something more with his material. I'm fairly sure he had an albums worth of very good songs available (based on what I think was written by this point) and half-decent recordings of those would have easily surpassed 15 BO. A missed opportunity.

I love putting together alternate track lists for Beach Boys albums (and I know some people find this an odd thing to do), but I struggle to get anything cohesive together for this era. Dennis' stuff is so well written, produced and performed that it clashes heavily with Brian's work from this period (which can be sloppy). Listening to something like Rainbows alongside something like Back Home is quite jarring to my ears, but I love them both. In an ideal world, I'd have one album compiled from the best original material from 15BO and Love You, with a bonus album of covers (including 'Sea Cruise' and possibly others) and then put something together using Dennis' material and the better stuff from MIU/LA. I'm useless at doing this though, so I'm never satisfied!

The Beach Boys - 15 Years of Golden Greats AKA Group Therapy

DISC 1

01. Come and Go With Me
02. Palisades Park
03. Talk to Me
04. Mony Mony
05. Just Once in My Life
06. Chapel of Love
07. Blueberry Hill
08. Rock 'n Roll Music
09. A Casual Look
10. Sea Cruise
11. Michael, Row the Boat Ashore
12. In The Still of The Night

DISC 2

01. Good Timin'
02. It's OK
03. Had to Phone Ya
04. California Feelin'
05. That Same Song
06. Everyone's In Love With You
07. River Song
08. Loop de Loop
09. Susie Cincinnati
10. I Wanna Pick You Up
11. Back Home
12. Pacific Ocean Blues
13. I Write the Songs

Why does everyone forget Shake, Rattle and Roll? I haven't heard it in a while, but I remember it having a joie de vivre that maybe only Sea Cruise rivalled. Killer lead vocal by Jal Ardine as well, beats the short shorts off Peggy Sue and School Days.

I think the others were jealous of Dennis' skills at songwriting and the record companies and others they had to deal with figured the real pony to bet on was always going to be Brian, not the other confounded morons who never penned a hit.

What this debate suffers from is the lack of quality released or booted material from this period. In my OP I wrote down several songs I've never heard and several of them have only been heard in their 15BO/LY/MIU/LA formats, which were certainly produced differently than those from 74-75. There should be a large archival digital release of all this once those in the group opposed to the release snuff it. Just for the sake of musical history it should be available.

I do think this is quite a fun cover. Nothing special but it deserves to be released at some point.

I don't know. I always kinda thought that song was embarrassing. I mean, I'm occasionally in the mood for it, but I think the tracklisting I had was reasonably non-embarrassing. Although "Back Home" and "Ding Dang" probably woulda scared some people.

What prospects did the original double-sided '15 Big Ones' album have?
None. It's so sad to watch a sweet thing die.
I can't think of anything positive to say about this album in any configuration. Even if Brian had been persuaded to resurrect the Smile material it would have been a disaster. I honestly believe they had no idea what a good record was and would have ruined pretty much anything they tried to record and did.
Only Dennis seemed to have any record making skills by this time and Brian was clearly very badly messed up and in no position to be in charge of a recording project even for as long as his concentration lasted. Allegedly less time than it took you to read this far.
The choice of material is bad, the production is bad,the singing is bad, the sleeve is bad, the rock 'n'roll music single is unspeakably dreadful. It's isn't rock'n' roll or music in the slightest.
The only good thing i can think of to say about this record is that i have no idea where my copy is. I cannot believe i own it on cd as well. I must be more stupid than the label that agreed to release it.
They would have been better off producing an archival release - I have often wondered how the great tracks we heard on Endless Harmony,Hawthorne,Good Vibrations box etc.  stayed in the can. Was Carl really too worried till he died about the flubbed "shunshine" to allow Old Man Sunshine to be released. If that's true i'd be interested in hearing his justification for every Beach Boys album from 15 big ones to Summer In Paradise.
I can't believe the other oldies being touted - Shake rattle and roll, peggy sue, school days. Why ?  Did they honestly think they could add anything to those or even think their versions were "rockin' " or "pretty neat". Clearly meditation is as dangerous as marijuana and meth or whatever drug(s) of choice the Wilsons were using.
It also strikes me that the guys were pretty much unable to agree on anything at this point. In one band meeting the proposal that the sky is generally blue was voted down 3 against 2.*
Maybe the overall dysfunctional problems within the band from rivalries,band divisions/politics thru drugs and drink, faded creativity and mental illness had finally caught up with them. Never the prettiest of bands, god they look like absolute **** and seriously creepy on the cover. Double yikes.
Does anyone think they ever recovered from this musical misstep ? It was their last chance and they blew it off pretty much forever.
When i've been in the USA over the last 25 years many people i've met (when the conversation turns to music) are gob smacked when i say i like the Beach Boys. They're a joke band with a mental guy (that's Brian btw not Mike).
I think this attitude stems largely (but not entirely) from this period.  Perhaps only last years reunion really began to repair any of the damage but as soon as  the tour finished  they ended up sparring in the press again just like the old days.
At least following 15 Big Ones things cpouldn't get worse for the band......oh they did ? Damn.

Please feel free to delete this post if it's too much.
I'm gonna listen to Bob Dylan's Self Portrait in an effort to calm down.
I'm just so angry thinking about this album and everything it represents. Actually maybe i should listen to Friends..yep feelin better already.

*ok i exaggerate

Sorry to say it, but I think you are pretty much on the money. While there were good songs to come out of each album, on the whole, they were never able to recapture the chance that they were given. Yes, the pics were horrid on that cover, except for Dennis'. If Dean picked those photos, I can't imagine what he was thinking. As for Bob Dylan, yikes! Great songwriter, but can't sing worth a sh*t. Better stick to Friends.:)

Well, they incorrectly believed that the oldies and covers were the grand sellers: Endless Summer (oldies) sold and 15BO (oldie covers) sold
No wonder they thought Peggy Sue was the next contender for the top 10 chart or that singing about the Kona Coast while reusing melodies from their old song "Hawaii" released 15 years earlier. Obviously Dennis skipped this foundering ship but his lifeboat of a solo career didn't keep him dry for long.

I think allowing coked down Brian to direct the path of the band by 1976 was a downright horrendous idea. Even though he did manage to write some very nice music in 74/75 and could still pull of that lovely backing track for Had To Phone Ya and Just Once In My Life.
Hopefully more material from that period by all band members will surface eventually.

I agree with most of your post, except for two points - one major and one minor.

There are a lot of negative things you can attach to 15 Big Ones, but....I think Brian's backing tracks on 15 Big Ones, just the backing tracks, are excellent. He could still get a nice, fulfilling wall of sound. It was the song selection and lead vocals that did the album in.

Second, the minor point....For many of the group's years, the guys varied from handsome to cute. Seriously, none of them were unattractive. Even in 1976 they, with the beards which were in style then, were nice looking guys. The photos on the 15 Big Ones album cover were unforgivable.

But, I do agree with one of your main points. It's true that the guys had no idea what a good record was. As we look back on the period beginning with Sunflower, they made so many questionable decisions regarding track selection, sequencing, songs left off for various reasons; ALL of their post-1969 fall into the woulda/shoulda/coulda category. With just a few (2-3) subtractions and/or additions, most of those albums had a much better chance to be great. They coulda been a contender, they coulda been someone...

I don't know if I agree that they really had a problem picking the right songs for albums before 15 Big Ones. I think by and large they picked the best material for every album through Holland*, except for leaving "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" off of Surf's Up. And Dennis ultimately decided that one. But 15 Big Ones obviously, they left a lot of stuff on the table that they really should have used, that was recorded since their prior studio album. And the only other album besides this one that I felt that really was hurt by track selection is L.A. (Light Album), since they left some nice stuff like "California Feelin'" and "Calendar Girl" off, while putting on a super long version of "Here Comes The Night". Otherwise, I think they usually used the best stuff they recorded in that period. Only problem being is some of the albums they didn't have a lot of good stuff  to work with (M.I.U., KTSA, the '85 album). Or in the case of SIP, any good stuff.




*Obviously the whole SMiLE/Smiley Smile thing doesn't count, as obviously we know which one woulda been the better choice.

I've probably said this before on here, but I think this record only needed a couple of tweaks to be great...

1/ Overall vocals/vocal mixing. Couple more takes, bring Brian/Mike down, Carl up, add some reverb.
2/ Lose a couple of tracks. Mike's song can do one, Back Home is a personal unfavourite, though I know some people like it,  and I think there were a couple of bad choices with covers. Casual look and Chapel of love i@m not keen on, sea cruise I am.

The great things about this album- It's Okay, Had to Phone Ya, in the still of the night, rock and roll music, TM song. It's kind of like 20/20- which to me feels patchy and unsatisfying as an album, but goshdarn, if there isn't a bad track on it...

Rock 'n' Roll Music great ?

I will fight that til i die. There is no place in the entire known universe as it may exist from time to time (that's in my songwriting contract) where the Beach Boys version of Rock 'n' Roll Music is great. It's not even 0/10.

"A couple of tweaks to be great" ?

how about you hold the record in one hand and tweak it hard with the other till it snaps and then tweak it in the bin.
Then rip the cover into tiny pieces and put it in the recycling.
That's more than a couple of tweaks !

(sorry Mr Moustache but i really hate this record so bad)

I have just been informed by Bristol City Council that under no circumstances am i to put the torn up sleeve for 15 Big Ones in the recycling. I have been served an immediate cease and desist and advised to go to the local Council rubbish tip and see if they'll dispose of it in the hazardous chemicals waste. Apologies to anyone who has just come back inside from their recycling bins in an attempt to tweak the album.

I don't like the album cut of Rock and Roll Music much, but I'm also of the opinion that the final mix didn't lend itself well to Brian's vision. I've always thought that if cleaned up, this hot mix would sound a fuckton better than what was ultimately released.

https://soundcloud.com/james-stockwell-2/rock-n-roll-music-hot-mix

TM Song and In the Still of the Night are both atrocious.

It could be said that the final mix was Brian`s visions in the sense that he apparently couldn`t care less about the mixes at that time.

Weren't there earlier mixes/versions of the 15 Big Ones material attempted by Brian? I recall someone saying Boyd found them more idiosyncratic and ballsier than what was eventually released. It's entirely possible Brian's apathy toward the final mixes stemmed from the rejection of the earlier approach he was taking.

As for TM Song. I find the lyrics are perhaps the clunkiest in the band's catalogue but the backing track is really inventive and reminds me a lot of the stuff you can find on Friends. I'd love to hear an instrumental only version of it.

I just listened to the first 45 seconds or so. Sorry i'm not having any of it. That is one of the worst covers of a Chuck Berry tune ever and there are many many many to choose from.
Even the version of Johnny B Goode by Chuck,John and Yoko is better and that one's almost enough to condemn the entire decade to the trash.
It's just not in the slightest bit rock 'n' roll, that backing vocal arrangement is sooo terrible and that lead is everything i hate about Mike . Oh god i can't believe i just listened to that sh** again. I will never get that time back ever.
I stand by my earlier tweaking comments.
I can't believe the band and in particular the artist i love and admire so much could fall so low. I'll stop now before i start ranting uncontrollably.
Oh man i think listening to that has given me rabies.

What did Shakespeare write, "Thou dost protest too much". ;)

No, i've definitely contracted rabies as a result of listening to 45 seconds of The Beach Boys playing Rock 'n' Roll Music.
i checked the symptoms on wikipedia

Sounds ace. Wish it was in better quality, though!

Did you speed that up or is that the way you got it?  The version I have of the hot mix runs 2:57, plays slower, and has the missing final verse ("Don't care to em play a tango....").  Are they both legitimate mixes or is yours a custom edit? 


And keeping things on topic, the version I have includes the bit where the DJ refers to it as "an exclusive preview from the Beach Boys unreleased double album."  Does anyone know when that broadcast originally aired?  I'm curious to know how far along the plans changed for the mix of the song and the length of the album.

Yeah, I cut that extra verse and made it around 9% faster. I may have fudged with some EQ as well.


Working on it  ;)

That explains a lot!  Nice job.  ;)

Cool ;D

Since we have been talking about 15 Big Ones and it's album cover, do any of the historians or anyone else for that matter, know why Dean or whoever used the photos that they used? Again, except for Dennis (whose pic is fantastic), why did they use such awful pics of the rest of the guys? I get the rest of the design and all, but those shots were not very photogenic, for lack of a better term.

Well, I agree that both Friends and Dylan's Self Portrait are terrific albums to chill out to!!

Sorry but that hurt my ears  :thud

the beach boys and those around them are for the most part utterly clueless on these issues.

haha- no worries ;)

I couldn't claim it's not the soundtrack to some SERIOUS ball-dropping, but is there NOTHING you like about it? I mean- Had to phone ya is pretty undeniable, imo. I'll grant you that the vocal production isn't what it could have been, but check the backing track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDr2jZzirw4

And It's Ok is a cracking fun in the sun track!

Thanks for the Had To Phone Ya backing track. That was truly revelatory. Maybe the album doesn't really suck that bad, it's just the way it has been mixed overall?

Brilliant!  Love it.

A lot rests on the vocals too. They just don't have any sweetness. I mean, NO one comes out of this album looking great as a vocalist, imo. Whilst I'd say the backing and arrangement of 'phone ya' is the undoubted highlight of the album, there are other cool things going on too. Blueberry Hill isn't a favourite of mine by a long way, but again, the backing is pretty cool. Sounds like the wrecking crew to me.

If this record was never released and we just had 'had to phone ya', blueberry hill (ins), just once in my life and it's okay as bootlegs, maybe a partial instrumental of TM Song, we'd all be daydreaming about another close call with a classic album.

I figure I'll give this question another go in its own dedicated post:

That is a super backing track fo' sho'--just snagged it. Thanks so much. But was it actually recorded in '76 or is this backing track the one that BW cut with David Sandler in '73? Just doesn't seem like something that BW could have done as part of the 15BO sessions.

It's amazing how sour the singing is on 15BO--only a few songs manage to escape that. For those of us who went from Holland to the various guest slots the BBs had in the interim ("Wishing You Were Here,""Don't Let The Sun Go Down on Me"), it was particularly shocking at the time. A couple of my pals at the time were running with the theory that the Wilson Bros. had been abducted by aliens and had been replaced by clones who couldn't carry a tune...

My sense was that the double LP talk surfaced in March '76 and was dead by early May.

haha- no worries ;)

I couldn't claim it's not the soundtrack to some SERIOUS ball-dropping, but is there NOTHING you like about it? I mean- Had to phone ya is pretty undeniable, imo. I'll grant you that the vocal production isn't what it could have been, but check the backing track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDr2jZzirw4

And It's Ok is a cracking fun in the sun track!
[/quote]

Thanks for posting that. I stand corrected at least as far as the backing track for Had To Phone Ya goes. Must've been one of Brian's better days.
It is certainly a very big problem that the vocals on 15 Big Ones are so poor in relation to their earlier work. I'm not gonna listen to it again but  am i right in thinking that even the normally reliable Al doesn't come out with much credit ?
Having slated this album so severely, i'm wondering if any of the classic 60's acts were still making half decent records at this time (mid 70's). Possibly only Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell. Makes me glad The Beatles split up, we only had to suffer the Let It Be album - one of the many reasons they are still held in such high esteem.
Even the worst Macca albums and John's rubbish solo career couldn't damage their reputation whereas The Beach Boys floundered like a beached whale (and even looked like one occasionally  in Brian's case).

Pretty sure it was '76.

It makes sense in the context of the Brian's back thing. Initially the oldies were 'a way to get Brian used to the studio again'- so he goes in, potters about with his synth bass and tack piano, get's a bit of confidence back, arranges 'phone ya', books the backing session....loses it again. Suddenly those covers are looking like the best chance of having an album...but there was definitely a spark or two.

I really do wonder about the vocals...it's not just the singing that's bad, it's the arranging.

There is a big problem with the arranging. Funnily enough, Break Away has a slightly bizarre vocal arrangement - Bruce once commented that they sound like old men which i can hear. Still a stunner though.
On 15BO Mike's voice is more nasal by this point (actually irritating is the word i'm looking for) and only Carl and Al could sing like they used to. Brian and Dennis are rasping croakers. Maybe that left too many voices in the upper mid range and lower making the whole thing cluttered and leaving the top lines exposed. Quality vocal arranging is quite an art form. These guys hadn't sung much together as a 5 piece for a while and the top line singer's voice is gone. Swapping parts alone changes the vocal blend significantly - these could all be factors. Of course the arrangements could just be plain bad like the rest of the album (except the Had To Phone You backing track !!!) .

Dennis's voice was harsh when he shouted, but there's a richness to his voice which if anything, would have worked better in a decent vocal arrangement than in the sixties. Thing of the 'little baby go to sleep' at the end of I wanna pick you up. Carl had lost some of his smoothness...was he in his 'booze' vocal period at this point?

I think the main problem is that Brian seemed to have lost the ability to sing softly- almost like he had to shout to hit the notes, and it sounds like the rest of the band are trying to match him. And back to the arrangements- there seem to be few points where say Carl and Al are holding some 'oohs' whilst Dennis is runweooing and Mike is bipping. There are just way too many moments where it feels like they are all shouting the same thing, at the same time.

Actually I think they tried to keep Brian doing his classic falsetto parts. All the falsetto parts on 15BO are Brian's (Chapel Of Love, In The Still Of The Night). But there are some weird vocal overdubs by Brian which are horrendous and sound like he's trying to add some gospel-like  oooh's and yeeaaah's (Back Home, That Same Song and Chapel Of Love in particular). Absolute crap. It almost sounds like they don't respect their audience anymore. Many must've thought "oh so they record some quick covers to cash in?". This is probably closer to the truth than anything else.

Nevermind.  The tracklisting on the back says the announcement, and the interview with Carl that precedes, were broadcast in spring of 1976.  Since 15 Big Ones came out in June, the album (which the DJ says was still untitled at the time) was still slated to be a double until very late in the game.

Back in 1976, the old original fans that I knew loved this album. To them the type of music was more to their liking. I don't remember too much complaining about their singing, except expressing shock over the change in Brian's voice. sh*t, even I was shocked at that too.

I've said it before here, but I'll say it agin, a perfect song for 15 Big Ones would have been San Miguel.

At a time when people were looking for "fun in the sun" songs after Endless Summer, San Miguel would have perfect and it was all set to release "as is." Sure, it wasn't new, buy neither was Susie Cincinnati.

Put San Miguel on and have Carl fix his vocal flub on Soulful Old Man Sunshine and out those in place of two of the covers and the album is a lot stronger. Plus SOMS gives another Brian credit for the "Brian's Back" campaign, even if the song was more Rick Henn than Brian.

I think you're on the right track. First we burn the 15BO master tape and in it's place we have
Side 1
Soulful Old Man Sunshine/ San Miguel/ Susie Cincinnati/ Loop de Loop/ Had To Phone Ya (instrumental)/ Do You Like Worms (with Al dubbing on the lead vocal)/ Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again/ol man river

See label for correct playing order.
I'll leave side 2 to the rest of you but looking at what we have so far, i'm telling you Brian's back.
BTW don't let Torrance anywhere near the artwork.

That's some seriously smart thinking!  Where were you in 1976!?  :lol

I think the best way to make this work would be to use the album flip as a divider, with "River Song" kicking off the 2nd half.

The 1st side would have songs like "It's Ok" and "Good Timin'" with the more traditional Beach Boys sound.

So is the consensus that 15 Big Ones actually ruined their career? (Instead of saved it as they hoped)

The one-two-three punch of 15 BO, followed by the inscrutable (at the time) Love You and the bland M.I.U. certainly didn't help them. The hype got them a hit record, but at the cost of artistic credibility. And Love You has to be one of the strangest records ever released by a classic rock band.

By the time they got their act together, however momentarily, with L.A., it was too late.

This "one-two-three punch" didn't help matters, for sure, but even if '15 Big Ones' had garnered artistic credibility up the wazoo, the fact is larger factors were at work in the late 70's rock scene that would have marginalized  the Beach Boys in any case : namely, the rise of punk and New Wave.

Lots of big name acts got caught on the wrong side of the New Wave/"Dinosaur" divide of the late 70's early 80's -- Paul McCartney, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Peter Frampton, the Moody Blues, etc. etc. Out with the old, in with the new : that's the story of pop music. It was like 1964 or 1967 all over again.