The Smiley Smile Message Board

I am in the throes of major VU obsession again. Fight.

John Cale. Amazingly talented musician.

Lou Reed could win on the fact he makes being a junkie sound like the coolest thing ever on I'm Waiting For The Man - his singing is so cool. Also, screaming SOCK IT TO ME on one particular version of Sister Ray before every solo. Worst solo Velvet (Berlin vs. LULU)

John Cale could win on the fact his queasy violin makes being a junkie sound absolutely awful on Heroin. Loudest on Sister Ray. Had the craziest hair. Coolest Velvet. Fellow alumni of mine. Also, best solo Velvet.

Sterling Morrison was the lead guitarist in The Velvet Underground and a tugboat captain. That's enough for me.

Moe Tucker is possibly my favourite drummer of all time. Absolute powerhouse - played absolutely no sh*t, too, just hit that beat intensely. Can believe Bo Diddley inspired her to play drums. Can even be forgiven for giving skronky offkey people the idea to sing cutesy like (I see you, THE MOLDY FUCKIN PEACHES) as Lou wrote her amazing songs tbh. Also, her solo records are p cool - need to track them down.

Nico is the scariest Velvet. And that is even considering John Cale's haircut and several Sister Ray bootlegs I have. Iconic alone for her lead on All Tomorrow's Parties.

Angus Maclise is hilarious. He doesn't even appear on their demo tape (on Peel Slowly & See), he was so suspicious of success. The rest seemed to regard him with some kind of fond bemusement in the book, as I recall.

Yule - The Paul McCartney of The Velvet Underground, but the analogy only works if you believe that Paul McCartney joined for The White Album after The Beatles (John, George, Ringo) had spent the sixties not being 'The Beatles'. Cutesy voice. His best work is on the Self Titled, tbh. I mean, Candy Says could be my favourite Velvet slow jam.

This is utterly impossible, btw.

I have a big fascination with that whole Andy Warhol/Velvet Underground period and the cast of characters. What a weird, wild time. I just came across some early pre-Velvet Underground photos of Nico when she was a model. What an incredible beauty.

I'll have to go with Lou Reed based on his singing AND his songwriting. Did anybody see where Lou recently had a liver transplant. A couple of days ago he was admitted (and released in one day) from the hospital due to dehydration. I saw a recent picture of Lou; he looked really rough. Let's hope he has many healthy years ahead of him.

Lou Reed also recently wrote this about the new Kanye West record, which is simultaneously the greatest music writing of the year and signs of his perhaps always present insanity. http://thetalkhouse.com/reviews/view/lou-reed

But yes, Lou Reed is the man. Hope he keeps well.

I'm goin' Lou, because, despite some hoo-haa and controversy (where did that middle eight go), Loaded is one of my "go-to" albums.  While the Yule was drivin' it production wise, it's a fine brace all from Lou - Cool it down, Sweet Jane, blah blah, it's all good. Here's to a healthy recovery.

Big Moe T fan as well - funny I like Loaded given she's not on it - her solo stuff I've heard is great, powerful punk(ish) stuff from a l'il fireball.

Can you add an all of the above option?

In a fit of pique I went for Moe. I regret it instantly yet have no clear alternative.

If it's during the Velvets time, I'd say Lou. His stuff on all four albums is so incredibly good. Crazy how consistent he was with the quality of the songs he was writing.
 
However, I think John Cale had a stronger solo career. He never sold out, and has some real gems of albums. Paris 1919 is one of my favorites ever. Not that Lou had a bad solo career, there's just some real crap he put out. I do love Transformer though.

My biggest problem with Transformer is, what if Bowie and Mick Ronson weren't part of the production? Some of the best parts of the album (like the string break in Perfect Day) were written by Ronson, or sung by Bowie (Satellite harmonies). Doesn't change my opinion of how great the album is, just that it wasn't all Lou.

For me, it's eventually down to Mr. Speed vs Mr. Cocaine vs Ms. Heroin.

Cale was probably the craziest (http://youtu.be/eXWvIgX_Ojk?t=4m40s (http://youtu.be/eXWvIgX_Ojk?t=4m40s)), Nico's story is the one that interests me more, but then Lou was just...the man - an incredible, distinctive, all-around song-writer, lyricist, singer, cool personality etc.

Plus, he seems like a nice guy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNxG7JnO1oA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNxG7JnO1oA)

Have you heard about how Cale once chopped the head off of a chicken and threw the carcass into the crowd?

I have. Gotta love the guy. ;D

Hmmmmm. I'd have to go with Lou because aside from being Lou Reed of he Velvet Underground, he's also .... LOU REED!

2. Sterling Morrison: his playing on the 3rd album is my favorite lead guitar work by anyone ever anywhere. He and Lou were the most perfect guitar team in the history of rock and roll.

3. Doug Yule.... See, this is hard for me. It's tough to be objective when The Velvet's 3rd album is my favorite album of all-time. And Doug is just perfect here. His voice and playing just brought such an intriguing element to the group and something of a contrasting personality for Lou to play off and it gave his songs and their subject matter different shades that Lou or John would never be able to touch. His bass playing is just spot on throughout. His lines/parts really enhance the songs and are very emotional. Very impressive for a guy who was basically just a kid when he was at it.

4. Mo Tucker..... She really should be number one perhaps, because it's really Mo who made The Velvets sound like no one else ever. Yeah, she just banged away with a vicious back-beat most of the time, but she also played some hella thought out and sympathetic to the song, not to mention difficult, parts. I dare to to sit down any MIT drum school graduate and see if he can nail the drums for Heroin, or Murder Mystery, or the tricky shuffle of Run Run Run, or Andy's Chest, or many others: chances are he'd get lost and just revert to playing "regular drums" .... which we know because of Loaded, work fine but made the band all that much more ordinary.

5. John Cale: .... I know I put him last, but there really is no bad spot with such a list. Cale happens to be my second favorite solo artist ever (In-between Dennis Wilson and Peter Gabriel) so, I have nothing but gushing love and respect for the man. However, I just happen to prefer the Velvets of the Yule era over banana album and WLWH.

Your Yule praise is OTM. He really shines on the self titled record. Less so on Loaded - I prefer Lou's vocals on everything, as ragged as they are.

BTW, Lou's vocal on Sweet Jane is absolutely amazing - it sounds like he's blasted on liquor and smokes, he's cracking jokes throughout (JUST WATCH ME NOW), and you can hear the smile on his face.

I hear the reason Yule sang so many songs, and why Lou sounds so ragged, is that they were playing live every night, with Lou singing everything. His voice was too tired to sing in the studio.

You'd think Lou would have babied his voice the other way around.  Probably had more to do with management who i think were a bit enamored with Yule, which ultimately had him leading a non-Lou VU which is absurd.  But in fairness, I think he adds a lot  to the songs he sings like "Candy Says," "New Age" -- a tenderness and naiveté not in Lou's wheelhouse.

I voted for Mo because Lou was rude to me when I met him (although I imagine he figures fans would be disappointed if he wasn't!).  But listen to the live versions with Billy Yule of songs she did in the studio to realize how important she was.  Not a knock on him, it's just she's up there with Charlie Watts in terms of being perfect in their band.

Absolutely! I feel the same way about Lou's vocals on Rock N Roll! Were these the last two recorded examples of a blissed out, happy Lou on record? .... (I would count "Kicks" from Cony Island Baby if the subject matter wasn't so creepy)

Mo is so perfect on the live versions of New Age, for example, that I can't even listen to the Loaded version

He also earned a PhD in medieval literature.

I had to vote Lou. The guy was incredibly talented not only at writing songs, but also at playing guitar. Both of those wild, dirty solos played with reckless abandon in "I Heard Her Call My Name" were done by him. It's some pretty good stuff.

While I do agree that John Cale brought a lot of the experimental stuff to the band, most likely due to his background in the La Monte Young Group, Lou had written "Heroin" and the like before he met John. In fact, that's why John decided to work with him.

When John left, their sound may have mellowed, but Lou kept on writing stellar songs. He had a great range of songwriting too. He could write up-tempo rockers that get you on your feet like "Train Round the Bend," to introspective, haunting songs like "Candy Says" and "New Age," to anthems like "Sweet Jane" and "Rock and Roll."

If only he would have kept it up in his solo work... (Transformer and The Blue Mask are pretty good, though)

Hypehat, you forgot to mention that Yule also played and sang on Squeeze.  :lol :lol :lol

Can you share that story?

Willie and Walter (either De Maria or Powers) just don't get no respect....

When VU was together, Lou Reed was clearly the band's driving force and my favorite album of theirs is Loaded, technically a Reed solo album (with a little help from Sterling and Doug Yule), but I would say John Cale is both the coolest and the most talented musician and that Paris 1919 is one of my favorite albums of all-time.  I gave him the edge.

And I also give my appreciation to the terribly unappreciated Doug Yule.  A great singer, part of why "Oh Sweet Nuthin" is my favorite VU song, it's an oversight that he was left out of the R&R hall of fame and that he wasn't even thanked in the speech.  I understand the big fans don't like him for keeping the band going without, well, anyone but that wasn't his fault (blame Steve Sesnick) and if you listen to the bootlegs, he did a pretty damn good job.

I never knew they froze out Yule at the R&RHOF.  That's pretty lame.  Yule was on as many of the studio LPs as Cale, as well as on the premier live recordings of the band.  And as noted his vocals brought something lovely to the table -- I'll mention "Candy Says" again.  The attempt to reconstruct the VU around him was a bad idea, but nothing that couldn't be water long under the bridge.  I think Lou did some solo stuff with him at some point.

They could make the R&RHOF inductions a reality show no problem, though a lot of the good feuds have lost important members.

Funny you mention Sweet Nuthin as an example of how cool Doug was/is and his being shut out of the RRHOF (and the VU reunion) .... How many bands have, and continue to cover Oh Sweet Nuthin? ("gulp" Phish, Black Crowes, My Morning Jacket)  That ought to say something right there! And I think it's just Doug and Billy Yule on that track. Not bad.

Yeah, Doug played bass on Lou's album Sally Can't Dance (played fantastic bass on the disturbing track "Billy") and then he played guitar on most of the tour for that album. I think Lou sent him packing because he was paranoid that his manager was showing too much interest in Doug's band American Flyer" ..... or something like that.

The two albums after Cale are as good as the two albums with Cale. Lou

Jolly good stuff, Erik! Doug is definitely my favorite in the group. Wonderful singer & gifted musician (if I recall, he can play variety of instruments), he's got to sing one of the best songs in the band's catalog such as "Who Loves the Sun", "Lonesome Cowboy Bill", "Candy Says", "Dopey Joe" etc. I'm glad that Doug was chosen as a replacement for Cale. He was an organic fit to the rest of the company, adding balance, harmony, friendliness & his own unique style. I've recently been listening to "notorious" "Squeeze" & it's not that awful really. About half of the songs immediately became my favorites. Specifically: rocking & slightly stoned "Dopey Joe" recorded live; uptempo number "Jack & Jane"; mellow "Friends", cute Martha My Dear rip-off "Crash", insanely catchy "Caroline" & groovy final track "Louise", a.k.a. a mixed gem. Maybe the album doesn't seem to have enough potential, so-called "hooks", but it surely worth several listens coz it's not the thing you'll "get" from the start. I kid you not, the arrangements & vocals shine there!

Btw, did somebody notice that Doug's voice at times sounds like George Harrison's? There's sth. about phrasing, tone & intonation quality that can't help but remind me of the way George sang. You'd say odd, since the former is American & George is British. Either way, Doug still remained himself; don't think he intentionally copied the former Beatle.

Couldn't see why poor old Nico didn't have a vote so I gave her mine. Love the first two VU albums, bits of the third, "Sweet Jane"...  

I think it's because Nico is much more (and rightfully so) worshiped as a solo artist.

Point taken. In fact she shouldn't be in this poll at all, since the VU's debut album was attributed to The Velvet Underground and Nico. It's a bit like saying that Quiver were the best members of The Sutherland Brothers. I was never any good at polls anyway!

Totally agree with you, Mr. K. Other than being a chanteuse, Nico didn't do anything musically in the group at all. Thus, 'twas unfair to include her in this poll in the 1st place. That said, I still like her voice & am glad that she sang on such a cool jam session & my favorite song from the album "All Tomorrow's Parties", it's become one of her signature numbers forever. No one beat her out, even Lou Reed.

Chelsea Girl, Marble Index, Desertshore, and The End are some of the greatest albums ever recorded.

Nico is in a class all her own.

I've always wondered what Doug would be doing now if Squeeze had been released as a "Doug Yule" solo album! I know he's alive and well and doing a pretty cool bluegrass thing, but I still wonder...... Someone should reissue it as "Squeeze: Doug Yule" and see if the reappraisal train rolls onto the tracks or not. People don't realize the position he was in when VU's original lineup disbanded with another album contractually obligated.....

I would think singing would classify as a 'musical' contribution. She belongs in this poll.  If John K's problem is one of nomenclature and you really enjoy her contributions to the first album this is a weird discussion to be having! She was in the band!

Nothing weird at all. All I did was agreeing with john k re Nico being out of place in this poll. And I very well know myself that "singing" counts as musical contribution. But the thing is, no one in the group actually liked her & sometimes even ridiculed her, it was Warhol who introduced her to VU. I also recall, Nico herself was quite reluctant on the idea of being in the band with some strangers she never knew before. So I can't argue with any of them.

I like Nico's voice very much, she's maybe in my Top-10 female singers, but within VU she's not that much significant. If she only sang constantly, in each LP, then fine, she indeed would belong in this poll. But having leads in 3 songs & doing backgrounds in 1 in the entire career of Velvet Underground I hardly can qualify as "the real member of the group". As some people stated here, Nico got more recognition & fame as a solo artist & remains such today. And I agree with it.

I just voted for Sterling partly because I have a soft spot for him because I met him at 4 am one night in the back of an Austin club during SXSW in '91.  We talked a little bit about Anglo-Saxon poetry, the subject he got his doctorate in when he went back to college after the Velvets....and also about the band rehearsing with Nico. He did a funny imitation of her saying, "Looouuu....Sterrrlinnngg....you mussst playy mooorree like Jeeemy Payyge..." (Jimmy Page was the guitarist on her Immediate 45, "The Last Mile" b/w "I'm Not Sayin'" which she made before coming to New York.)